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idseer
10-02-2003, 04:41 AM
how about him coming in and pitching a hitless scoreless 9th, 10th and 11th.

why couldnn't he do that for us? it seemed anything over an inning in a tie game he sucked.

MHOUSE
10-02-2003, 08:00 AM
Out of the bullpen in middle relief i recall Foulke pitching more than an inning a few times. He was always lights out. Three more exciting back-and-forth games. This is shaping up as a good playoffs.

Jerko
10-02-2003, 08:29 AM
I DO remember him pitching more than one inning at a time, but he usually DID suck in tie games. I don't think the Sox ever won a game when he came into a tie.

VeeckAsInWreck
10-02-2003, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by idseer

why couldnn't he do that for us? it seemed anything over an inning in a tie game he sucked.

Boy, you ain't kidding! I am shivering just remembering game 1 of the 2000 ALDS. :(:

ode to veeck
10-02-2003, 08:48 AM
last night was at least partially enabled by him only throwing 7 pitches in the middle inning, and he really did escape a jam in the third one

other than about 6 weeks in spring of '02 where he lost pace on his fastball and everyone just teed off on his palmball, Foulke's been one of the most consistent relievers in the game the last few years ...

last night was a stretched used of his abilities, but he was really effective for that first inning plus 7 pitches, then escaped a jam in that third one

I really thought it was over for him after that stretch last spring, but in the 2nd half last year and for '03 he's really looked like the guy who closed a ton of Sox games the last few years & was a critical contributor to A's success this year

yeah he's really only effective for an inning or so and gets a big blown save once in a while (will we ever forget a couple against the Twinks?), but he gets the job done more often than most

commentators last night accurately dissed JM for misuse of Foulke last year and the bullpen in general this year

gosox41
10-02-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
I DO remember him pitching more than one inning at a time, but he usually DID suck in tie games. I don't think the Sox ever won a game when he came into a tie.

I don't have the stats on that, but I'd bet a lot of money that over the course of Foulke's tenure in Chicago the Sox won at least 1 game that he entered when it was tied.

Let's face it, the Sox misused Foulke. JM mismanaged him by screwing around with his psyche. If his confidence was so shot after 2002, then how did he rebound and go 43-48 in save appearances in 2003 and more importantly put up excellent numbers.

Foulke wasn't the problem when he was here. Sure he had a couple of rough outiings, but they were magnified because he is the "closer" who Sox fans see the most. His troubles in 2002 weren't any more worrisome then a lot of other pitchers, and in a lot of cases his troubles were a lot less.

Bob

TDog
10-02-2003, 11:34 AM
A manager should never put a relief pitcher in a game where he'll blow a save.

I'm sure Foulke picked up relief wins with the Sox that weren't the result of his offense coming back after a blown save. But in 2001, after giving up two home runs in his second inning of work in the 2000 ALDS, he consistently had problems in his second inning of relief. He also had problems when he came in with the score tied. It wasn't just the most egregious blown save that everyone remembers against the Twins in 2001 that put the Sox in a deep hole, it was giving up runs in tie games. I knew 2001 would be different in April when the Twins tagged him with him the loss with two solo home runs to break an eighth-inning tie. At the time, people blamed JM for misusing him.

Foulke is a better pitcher for the A's this year than he was for the Sox. He is headed for a nice free-agent deal with a new team in the offseason. But he can't blame JM for all of his problems in Chicago.

jeremyb1
10-02-2003, 01:16 PM
I was really proud of Foulkie last night. The talk of him not pitching well in key games has always been ridiculous in my opinion. There's not a large enough sample size of "critical games" by which to jugde his performance in such games (if such a pursuit is at all valuable) and people remember blowing "key games" much more than closing them out.

FarWestChicago
10-02-2003, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I was really proud of Foulkie last night. The talk of him not pitching well in key games has always been ridiculous in my opinion. There's not a large enough sample size of "critical games" by which to jugde his performance in such games (if such a pursuit is at all valuable) and people remember blowing "key games" much more than closing them out. Dont gloat too soon. He'll have his chance to blow a game yet, most likely. :smile:

maurice
10-02-2003, 01:43 PM
Great closers like Eckersley and Smoltz never blow saves in the post-season.

Lip Man 1
10-02-2003, 07:03 PM
Sports Illustrated this week (Jake Plummer on the cover) has a story on playoff bullpens and had this item: "Ten of his (Foulke's) 43 saves were longer than the one inning variety..."

I had to do a double take remembering all the times Foulke would throw a fine inning for the Sox then get lit up like a Christmas tree starting with the first batter of his next inning.

We all know that the late Manager Gandhi didn't know how to use a bullpen (and reinforced by the comments Wednesday night by Jeff Brantley) but are the pitching coaches also responsible for the Sox relief woes?

I only say that in the context of Jack McDowell's statement to WSI that Rick Petersen was the finest pitching coach he ever had and that it was a shame when the Sox let him go.

Petersen happensto be the pitching coach for the A's.

perhaps they were warming him up to many times then not using him and when they needed him for longer then one inning he was gassed.

Any comments?

Lip

faneidde
10-02-2003, 07:26 PM
Amazing how many chances Foulke got (like 3) and how many months Royce Clayton was left in the line-up with a BA under .150. Just think, had the Sox kept Royce around and Frank got hurt, they could have sent 4 guys out in the 3rd month of the season batting under .150 (Daubach, Rowand, Konerko, and Royce)

duke of dorwood
10-02-2003, 07:39 PM
The year I had seats by the Sox pen, I didnt think he warmed up enuf. There were times he'd fool with the stretching machine a long time before throwing any pitches. Then an inning ends quickly, and in he came. Didnt his slump begin when Contreras was coach? If so, enuf said

jeremyb1
10-02-2003, 07:42 PM
"I had to do a double take remembering all the times Foulke would throw a fine inning for the Sox then get lit up like a Christmas tree starting with the first batter of his next inning. [/B]

That's not true. Everyone always says Foulke wasn't any good in 2 inning save situations but that was only a few select incidents in '01. In '99 and '00 he used to pitch two inning saves with realtive frequency and always pitched very well.

idseer
10-02-2003, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Sports Illustrated this week (Jake Plummer on the cover) has a story on playoff bullpens and had this item: "Ten of his (Foulke's) 43 saves were longer than the one inning variety..."

I had to do a double take remembering all the times Foulke would throw a fine inning for the Sox then get lit up like a Christmas tree starting with the first batter of his next inning.

We all know that the late Manager Gandhi didn't know how to use a bullpen (and reinforced by the comments Wednesday night by Jeff Brantley) but are the pitching coaches also responsible for the Sox relief woes?

I only say that in the context of Jack McDowell's statement to WSI that Rick Petersen was the finest pitching coach he ever had and that it was a shame when the Sox let him go.

Petersen happensto be the pitching coach for the A's.

perhaps they were warming him up to many times then not using him and when they needed him for longer then one inning he was gassed.

Any comments?

Lip

could very well be. but my only real comment is ... i sure like the sound of "the late Manager Gandhi " :gulp:

Stoky44
10-02-2003, 11:06 PM
I am really glad to see Foulke do good in Oakland. He was a great guy, always signed before games. HE was very personable and giving to the fans. Yeah he had a bad 1st half in 2002 for us, but he was pretty good in the second half, just never given another chance to prove himself. Plus we have to remember that he had old Jerry as his manager here in 2002, and we know how great he is in managing the pen. Yes i do blame Keith for a bad 1st half, but I wouldn't be surpirised if JM had something to do with messing him up. I LOVE FOULKE, GREAT BASEBALL PLAYER, and EVEN BETTER PERSON.

THIS GOES OUT TO YOU IN OAKLAND KEITH:

BEAT THE "FOULKE" OUT OF BOSTON AND GET YOURSELF A RING!!!

Gumshoe
10-02-2003, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I was really proud of Foulkie last night. The talk of him not pitching well in key games has always been ridiculous in my opinion. There's not a large enough sample size of "critical games" by which to jugde his performance in such games (if such a pursuit is at all valuable) and people remember blowing "key games" much more than closing them out.


As Lip through Jack McD said, it was ALL about the pitching coach and staff, something we have lost because JR doesn't know how to win. What an idiot. It's no surprise that the A's are money with a guy like taht in the system.

As for Jeremy's post above, he's right on. I'm sick of all the "remembering" of when something bad happened. Humans are terrible in this regard, point in case:

If Foulke did what was expected (get the save, happened a lot), then you didn't remembe ANYthing. But the scarce times he blew it, the stupid Sox fan acts like it happened all the time, that he then didn't want to be there, that he wasn't that "good", etc ...

G

FarWestChicago
10-03-2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
the stupid Sox fan acts like it happened all the timeWith your obsession with mediocre to horrible players, you might want to watch who you are calling stupid. :smile: