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View Full Version : Fire Kenny Williams


LASOXFAN
10-02-2003, 02:45 AM
and hire Pat Gillick.

For the most part I applaud the job KW has done and normally wouldn't want to see him fired, but Gillick is an awesome GM who knows how to build a winner. You want a guy like Torre to manage? You better get a guy like Gillick to be GM. Look at how he turned around Seattle and won championships in Toronto.

Someone's going to sign him fast...and sadly, we all know it won't be uncle Jerry, so why am I even bothering. :whiner:

hold2dibber
10-02-2003, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
and hire Pat Gillick.

For the most part I applaud the job KW has done and normally wouldn't want to see him fired, but Gillick is an awesome GM who knows how to build a winner. You want a guy like Torre to manage? You better get a guy like Gillick to be GM. Look at how he turned around Seattle and won championships in Toronto.

Someone's going to sign him fast...and sadly, we all know it won't be uncle Jerry, so why am I even bothering. :whiner:

It was my understanding that Gillick voluntarily retired. Is there reason to think he still wants to be a major league GM?

SouthBendSox
10-02-2003, 09:43 AM
fire this clown before he signs another alomar

gosox41
10-02-2003, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
and hire Pat Gillick.

For the most part I applaud the job KW has done and normally wouldn't want to see him fired, but Gillick is an awesome GM who knows how to build a winner. You want a guy like Torre to manage? You better get a guy like Gillick to be GM. Look at how he turned around Seattle and won championships in Toronto.

Someone's going to sign him fast...and sadly, we all know it won't be uncle Jerry, so why am I even bothering. :whiner:

It sounds like GIllick will remain in a consulting role for the Mariners. He's still got ownership benind him.

Bob

TDog
10-02-2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
It sounds like GIllick will remain in a consulting role for the Mariners. He's still got ownership benind him.

Bob

That's what I understand. Meanwhile, in the Pacific Northwest, there was some dissatisfaction with the way he was doing his job, with the way he built the team because it has folded down the stretch for the last couple of years. This August, the Mariners fans I know were resigned to the team losing to the A's.

chisoxt
10-02-2003, 11:53 AM
I agree whole heartedly with the fire Kenny williams part, but not if it involves hiring another on-the-job trainee which this current ownership is prone to do. What this organiztion clearly needs now, and NEEDED THREE YEARS AGO, when Scu stepped down was a GM who is astute at making deals (or at least, doesn't get pants every time he makes them) and emphasizes minor-league player development. The minor league devlopment aspect is especially important to an organization llke the Sox which I classify, not as a small market team, but a limited market team.

You would think that Reinsdorf, who hates spending a lot of money on players, would regard these qualities as important when he hires GMs. Hey Jerry, here's a thought....maybe if you spend a little bit more on an experienced GM, or at least one who knows what he is doing, you may save on players salaries in the long term if you have a strong minor league system.

thepaulbowski
10-02-2003, 12:13 PM
We should hire a guy who was never able to get his team over the hump? If that's the way people think, then we should have never fired JM. His teams were good, but never good enough to win anything.

soxtalker
10-02-2003, 12:44 PM
If I was JR, I'd hire someone like Billy Beane that would allow him to take a business approach that would, hopefully, keep costs down and improve the quality of the team. Now, those of you who don't like statistics would hate it. But if Boston and Toronto start showing the same sort of success that Oakland has seen, I'd bet that this will change the game within 5 years.

MisterB
10-02-2003, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
We should hire a guy who was never able to get his team over the hump?

Hey, at least he got his teams to the hump... :D:

pudge
10-02-2003, 01:10 PM
Gillick is also very timid and made a horrible move recently in trading Nelson because he had ties to his old buddy Benitez from Baltimore. Gillick is also in a feud with the Reds, hence he wasn't able to get Aaron Boone. Remember that sweet deal KW pulled in getting Sullivan? It would have never happened if Gillick was our GM. If you really want Pat Gillick, you're living in the past. Welcome to the 21st century...

Dadawg_77
10-02-2003, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
If I was JR, I'd hire someone like Billy Beane that would allow him to take a business approach that would, hopefully, keep costs down and improve the quality of the team. Now, those of you who don't like statistics would hate it. But if Boston and Toronto start showing the same sort of success that Oakland has seen, I'd bet that this will change the game within 5 years.


It would for about a five years, then it will revert back to what is happening now. Oakland's formula to success is baseball arbitrage. They are paying a low price for assets then are worth way more then what the market commands. The baseball talent market is not efficient but success in Toronto and Boston will cause change which will cause the market to become more efficient.

soxtalker
10-02-2003, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
It would for about a five years, then it will revert back to what is happening now. Oakland's formula to success is baseball arbitrage. They are paying a low price for assets then are worth way more then what the market commands. The baseball talent market is not efficient but success in Toronto and Boston will cause change which will cause the market to become more efficient.

It is an interesting question to ask what will happen if I'm right about a lot of the teams moving toward Beane's approach. I agree with you for the most part. In fact, if you look back in baseball history, being rich (NYY) has always been an advantage. But being smart about running a team has also been an advantage. Historically, being "smart" was pretty intangible, though I bet we could find examples of techniques and approaches that were revolutionary in their day. Beane has just figured out how to use modern economic tools combined with statistics as a smarter way of approaching the game. Others will -- as I'm sure they have in the past -- copy it.

When I was reading Moneyball, I kept asking myself why Beane would publish this. He was giving away a lot of secrets. I think that part of the answer is that there is a lot that he hasn't told us. He can continue digging deeper into the problems to come up with ever more subtle statistics to evaluate players. (There is, of course, a limit to any measurement.) Beane alludes to some modification of the training that goes on in their minor league system; I would imagine that some teams would do a lot there.

I guess that one question -- and this is particularly true for the rich teams -- is how early you can predict a superstar.

RichH55
10-02-2003, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
It is an interesting question to ask what will happen if I'm right about a lot of the teams moving toward Beane's approach. I agree with you for the most part. In fact, if you look back in baseball history, being rich (NYY) has always been an advantage. But being smart about running a team has also been an advantage. Historically, being "smart" was pretty intangible, though I bet we could find examples of techniques and approaches that were revolutionary in their day. Beane has just figured out how to use modern economic tools combined with statistics as a smarter way of approaching the game. Others will -- as I'm sure they have in the past -- copy it.

When I was reading Moneyball, I kept asking myself why Beane would publish this. He was giving away a lot of secrets. I think that part of the answer is that there is a lot that he hasn't told us. He can continue digging deeper into the problems to come up with ever more subtle statistics to evaluate players. (There is, of course, a limit to any measurement.) Beane alludes to some modification of the training that goes on in their minor league system; I would imagine that some teams would do a lot there.

I guess that one question -- and this is particularly true for the rich teams -- is how early you can predict a superstar.


A).....Bit of an Ego
B) Not really giving up any secrets.....its like KFC releasing a book and saying the key to their success is herbs and spices...but not telling you more