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Mammoo
10-01-2003, 04:09 PM
From the Trib's Teddy Greenstein:

What's the craziest thing outfielder Aaron Rowand will do this off-season?

"Play golf," he said. "I learned my lesson last year."

A near-fatal dirt bike accident left Rowand with a broken shoulder blade and kept him out of a batting cage for about four months.

This off-season will be different. Rowand will go to Puerto Rico at the end of October to play winter ball for Santurce. Rowand's manager will be Wally Backman, the Double-A Birmingham manager who could be a candidate for the Sox's vacancy.

"He's a great guy who likes to have fun," Rowand said of Backman. "He brings intensity to the field."

I guess AR won't boycott if WB is hired... :smile:

FarmerAndy
10-01-2003, 04:12 PM
Good to hear that Aaron will be playing in the Mexican League rather than the X Games this off-season. :)

bc2k
10-01-2003, 04:40 PM
I saw a recent pregame interview with AROW and he said he had sold his dirtbike.

Viva Magglio
10-01-2003, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by FarmerAndy
Good to hear that Aaron will be playing in the Mexican League rather than the X Games this off-season. :)

Since when does the Mexican League play its games in Puerto Rico?

FarmerAndy
10-01-2003, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Since when does the Mexican League play its games in Puerto Rico?

Sorry, I read over that blurb real fast.

*I do know the difference between Mexico and Puerto Rico, in case you were wondering.

Randar68
10-01-2003, 07:54 PM
Crash's offseason should consist of:

1) Learning to hit
1a) Learn to take a walk and work the count
2) Learn to run to a spot and stop where the ball will end up instead of drifting with it.
3) Learn how to have some idea of where you are in the park, so he doesn't run into the wall on balls short of the warning track!
4) Get your damn feet in position to make a decent and accurate throw.

CHISOXFAN13
10-01-2003, 08:12 PM
I'm not advocating Aaron be anything more than a fourth outfielder, but saying he can't hit is stupid.

I think he showed he can hit a little this season.

RichH55
10-01-2003, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
I'm not advocating Aaron be anything more than a fourth outfielder, but saying he can't hit is stupid.

I think he showed he can hit a little this season.

He showed he could hit at the level of a 4th OF....hence the reason play want him as a 4th OF, not the everyday CF

34 Inch Stick
10-02-2003, 08:46 AM
It appears that he is going to be the starting centerfielder so I hope he works hard on his defense and discipline this off season.

Randar68
10-02-2003, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
It appears that he is going to be the starting centerfielder so I hope he works hard on his defense and discipline this off season.

"Apperas" to whom? I certainly don't buy it.

Randar68
10-02-2003, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
I'm not advocating Aaron be anything more than a fourth outfielder, but saying he can't hit is stupid.

I think he showed he can hit a little this season.

Aaron Rowand is a career .280 (that's on the high side IIRC) minor league hitter and has never hit .300 once in a full season.


Yes, he needs to "learn to hit". Maybe not as bad as Julio Ramirez, but there is a alot of learning to be done. His OBP has been ATROCIOUS, and last I checked, taking walks was part of hitting.

CLR01
10-02-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Crash's offseason should consist of:

1) Learning to hit
1a) Learn to take a walk and work the count
2) Learn to run to a spot and stop where the ball will end up instead of drifting with it.
3) Learn how to have some idea of where you are in the park, so he doesn't run into the wall on balls short of the warning track!
4) Get your damn feet in position to make a decent and accurate throw.


You forgot:

5) Learn to speak Japanese.

Randar68
10-02-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by CLR01
You forgot:

5) Learn to speak Japanese.


*****!!!!! Maybe Tuffy Rhodes can teach him!!!

RichH55
10-02-2003, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by CLR01
You forgot:

5) Learn to speak Japanese.


Or get some pictures of Billy Beane....worked for Chris Singleton and Terrence Long

Randar68
10-02-2003, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
Or get some pictures of Billy Beane....worked for Chris Singleton and Terrence Long

Heck, I'd take Singelton over Rowand in a second.

34 Inch Stick
10-02-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
"Apperas" to whom? I certainly don't buy it.

Anybody who is monitoring the Sox needs in the off season and the GM's intended course of action. Kenny said that all available money will be used on pitching. That means that the only position players that will be acquired in free agency are going to be low priced, plug in type players. I don't expect we will find a fast, lead off hitting center fielder on the cheap, especially after solving the questions of 2B and SS.

One guy who might be interesting to look at is Scrubbie Tom Goodwin. He did a nice job for the north side franchise this year and I'm sure would love an opportunity to start again. In fact all three current Cub CF's will be out there (Lofton, Goodwin, Glanville). All three have questions marks. That is the pool we will be fishing in. I don't know if any are significantly better than Rowand.

Randar68
10-02-2003, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Anybody who is monitoring the Sox needs in the off season and the GM's intended course of action. Kenny said that all available money will be used on pitching. That means that the only position players that will be acquired in free agency are going to be low priced, plug in type players. I don't expect we will find a fast, lead off hitting center fielder on the cheap, especially after solving the questions of 2B and SS.

One guy who might be interesting to look at is Scrubbie Tom Goodwin. He did a nice job for the north side franchise this year and I'm sure would love an opportunity to start again. In fact all three current Cub CF's will be out there (Lofton, Goodwin, Glanville). All three have questions marks. That is the pool we will be fishing in. I don't know if any are significantly better than Rowand.


Are you asleep?



Jeremy Reed.

thepaulbowski
10-02-2003, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Crash's offseason should consist of:

1) Learning to hit

Maybe you should look at his stats, it seems like he knows how to hit the ball he just needs more plate appearances. I think he did a pretty damn good job considering he never played on a day to day basis and when he did play it was mostly as a defensive replacement.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6742

voodoochile
10-02-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
Maybe you should look at his stats, it seems like he knows how to hit the ball he just needs more plate appearances. I think he did a pretty damn good job considering he never played on a day to day basis and when he did play it was mostly as a defensive replacement.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6742

His career .743 OPS isn't exactly mindblowing. Was this intended to support Rowand's bid?

thepaulbowski
10-02-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Are you asleep?



Jeremy Reed.

Maybe we should wait until after spring training to annoint him as the "future." He has shown promise, but many people have done great things in the low-level minors, that never amounted to anyting in the big leagues. I'd like to get some more seasoning in AA or AAA before coming to big leagues.

thepaulbowski
10-02-2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
His career .743 OPS isn't exactly mindblowing. Was this intended to support Rowand's bid?

How would you expect it to be mind blowing when he bats once or twice a week? If he were allowed to play everyday for a while, then you good gage him better. He performed much better than other platoon players such as Harris & Daubach (and Daubach is the veteran of the bunch). Rowand also came through with some clutch hits in a few of the games he was in.

I'm not saying Rowand is a goint to blow everybody away with his stats. I think if Rowand is given the chance to prove himself, he could be a solid player.

Randar68
10-02-2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
Maybe you should look at his stats, it seems like he knows how to hit the ball he just needs more plate appearances. I think he did a pretty damn good job considering he never played on a day to day basis and when he did play it was mostly as a defensive replacement.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6742


AHHHH, the favorite of FOC. Not enough PA's?

His minor league track record speaks for itself. He'll never be more than a 4th outfielder unless he's on a bottom-rung team.

Reed is a better player is terms of:
1) Speed
2) Instincts (field and running)
3) Discipline
4) contact hitter
5) arm
6) Left-handed
7) Actuallyhas potential.

I don't understand this unless there is a dearth of Rowand's family members who post on this board.

Randar68
10-02-2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
Maybe we should wait until after spring training to annoint him as the "future." He has shown promise, but many people have done great things in the low-level minors, that never amounted to anyting in the big leagues. I'd like to get some more seasoning in AA or AAA before coming to big leagues.

That's all fine and good, but he's better than Rowand today. Are we trying to win in the next year or 2 or are we building the future?

BTW, that's a rhetorical question. Look at what KW's trying to do.

thepaulbowski
10-02-2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
That's all fine and good, but he's better than Rowand today. Are we trying to win in the next year or 2 or are we building the future?

BTW, that's a rhetorical question. Look at what KW's trying to do.

You don't need greatness at all spots to win. Look at the Yankees outfield the last few years. They have gone through more people than you could shake a stick at (and thats a lot of people) :D:

thepaulbowski
10-02-2003, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
AHHHH, the favorite of FOC. Not enough PA's?

His minor league track record speaks for itself. He'll never be more than a 4th outfielder unless he's on a bottom-rung team.

Reed is a better player is terms of:
1) Speed
2) Instincts (field and running)
3) Discipline
4) contact hitter
5) arm
6) Left-handed
7) Actuallyhas potential.

I don't understand this unless there is a dearth of Rowand's family members who post on this board.

I'm not saying the guy isn't a "prospect", but that's all he is so far-a prospect. He hasn't proven he can help the White Sox. How many prospects don't end up being the players that everyone thought they would be? Probably more than those that fulfill expectations. If we can resign Everett this will be a mute point, which I hope is the case.

Obviosuly this is just my opinion and no-I'm not related to Rowand.

Randar68
10-02-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
You don't need greatness at all spots to win. Look at the Yankees outfield the last few years. They have gone through more people than you could shake a stick at (and thats a lot of people) :D:


If you haven't noticed, some of the KEY missing facets of the Sox' game the past couple years are:

1) Patience (not striking out so much also)
2) Speed
3) Instincts
4) OF's with range.
5) Left handed bats who can hit lefties

All of those are things that Reed does that Rowand does not. The Sox do not need another 100+ K machine with a sub-.300 OBP.

Randar68
10-02-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
I'm not saying the guy isn't a "prospect", but that's all he is so far-a prospect. He hasn't proven he can help the White Sox. How many prospects don't end up being the players that everyone thought they would be? Probably more than those that fulfill expectations. If we can resign Everett this will be a mute point, which I hope is the case.

Obviosuly this is just my opinion and no-I'm not related to Rowand.

Frankly, Rowand has done nothing to prove he can help the White Sox on a full-time basis, and he's been with the big club for 2 years.

Also, Carl in center for a whole season scares the bejesus out of me.

34 Inch Stick
10-02-2003, 12:57 PM
How did Miguel Olivo look as a hitter in AA a year ago?

Yes I am asleep but not brain dead enough to entrust a world series hopefull to AA player. IIRC center field is not his natural/projected major league position either.

voodoochile
10-02-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
How did Miguel Olivo look as a hitter in AA a year ago?

Yes I am asleep but not brain dead enough to entrust a world series hopefull to AA player. IIRC center field is not his natural/projected major league position either.

But we are willing to allow Rowand to play there? The guy has corner outfielder written all over him in every way except for his bat.

bc2k
10-02-2003, 01:34 PM
Do non-Rowand fans acknowledge an improvement in his hitting since his return from the minors in 2003?

I agree, if he's to be our starting center fielder, he needs to work counts and take many more walks.

voodoochile
10-02-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Do non-Rowand fans acknowledge an improvement in his hitting since his return from the minors in 2003?

I agree, if he's to be our starting center fielder, he needs to work counts and take many more walks.

In general, I think Rowand looks better over the last few seasons when healthy.

maurice
10-02-2003, 01:39 PM
In all likelihood, Rowand and Reed both will get a shot to win the job in spring training. A platoon also is possible. Rowand is pretty much a lock to make the team and will start if the other candidates open the season in AAA. IMO, Reed has about a 50-50 chance to make the team out of spring training. The dark horse candidate is Borchard. If Everett is brought back, he should play corner OF or DH. The Sox probably will not add a protypical CF until Anderson is ready.

voodoochile
10-02-2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by maurice
In all likelihood, Rowand and Reed both will get a shot to win the job in spring training. A platoon also is possible. Rowand is pretty much a lock to make the team and will start if the other candidates open the season in AAA. IMO, Reed has about a 50-50 chance to make the team out of spring training. The dark horse candidate is Borchard. If Everett is brought back, he should play corner OF or DH. The Sox probably will not add a protypical CF until Anderson is ready.

That will depend on a lot of things, not the least of which is Everett. KW says he wants Everett back and if both Lee and Maggs return also, then Everett pretty much has to play CF at least on a part time basis. He will probably split time at DH with Frank, who I expect to see at 1B at least a couple of times a week next year.

thepaulbowski
10-02-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Do non-Rowand fans acknowledge an improvement in his hitting since his return from the minors in 2003?

No they just are just realted to Reed filling this board with propoganda! :D:

maurice
10-02-2003, 01:47 PM
I would be absolutely stunned if Maggs, CLee, Big Frank, Konerko, and Everett are all on the Sox next season. If any one of them leaves, CF is wide open.

bc2k
10-02-2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by maurice
I would be absolutely stunned if Maggs, CLee, Big Frank, Konerko, and Everett are all on the Sox next season. If any one of them leaves, CF is wide open.

I also assume at least one of those listed will not be back in 2004.

This adds a twist on the Thomas situation. If we are able to rid our team of Konerko or Maggs, I think Frank has more leverage in his contract. Frank can opt not to return for 6 million, and tip JR's hand to renew him for 8 mil since a power hitter has left. So maybe KW is waiting until Frank has to make his 6 million decision before trading away one of our power hitters.

(Frank's deadline to renew at 6 million is one week after the World Series.) I'm predicting KW won't move any of our power hitters until after that time.

Randar68
10-02-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by maurice
In all likelihood, Rowand and Reed both will get a shot to win the job in spring training. A platoon also is possible. Rowand is pretty much a lock to make the team and will start if the other candidates open the season in AAA. IMO, Reed has about a 50-50 chance to make the team out of spring training. The dark horse candidate is Borchard. If Everett is brought back, he should play corner OF or DH. The Sox probably will not add a prototypical CF until Anderson is ready.

I think you're partially right. If Reed doesn't win the everyday job out of Spring Training, I think the Sox would send Reed down to play full-time before they would platoon him at this point.

Rowand doesn't add anything to the lineup that isn't already there, and on a team of no-walk power hitters with relatively low averages, he's the last thing we need in the order.

It's JMHO, but the everlasting pro-Rowand argument is completely nonsensical.

Randar68
10-02-2003, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
I So maybe KW is waiting until Frank has to make his 6 million decision before trading away one of our power hitters.

(Frank's deadline to renew at 6 million is one week after the World Series.) I'm predicting KW won't move any of our power hitters until after that time.

I think this is the case and I doubt Kenny would make any major moves until at least right before the Owners/GM Meetings..

fuzzy_patters
10-02-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by maurice
In all likelihood, Rowand and Reed both will get a shot to win the job in spring training. A platoon also is possible. Rowand is pretty much a lock to make the team and will start if the other candidates open the season in AAA. IMO, Reed has about a 50-50 chance to make the team out of spring training. The dark horse candidate is Borchard. If Everett is brought back, he should play corner OF or DH. The Sox probably will not add a protypical CF until Anderson is ready.

Is Anderson a prototypical CF? I thought he was supposed to be another Joe Borchard type corner guy trying to play center.

Randar68
10-02-2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
Is Anderson a prototypical CF? I thought he was supposed to be another Joe Borchard type corner guy trying to play center.

No, he's not as big (ie. long strider) like Borchard is. He has more speed and quicker accelleration, although at the same point in their developments, Anderson doesn't project to as much power as LTP did.

Anderson will hit for a higher average and has a better judgement/discipline of the strike zone. He still has 30 HR power, but he's a more natural CF'er. Borchard will be fine in CF and better than Rowand or Harris, but the question now is, 1) Will he hit enough, and 2) will the Sox need him there?

My opinion is Borchard, if he hits enough to warrant the role, will end up replacing Maggs in RF with Reed as your CF'er. At some future point, I think you'll see Anderson in center and Reed in LF.

This is, of course, assuming they all develop and progress well.

RichH55
10-02-2003, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
How would you expect it to be mind blowing when he bats once or twice a week? If he were allowed to play everyday for a while, then you good gage him better. He performed much better than other platoon players such as Harris & Daubach (and Daubach is the veteran of the bunch). Rowand also came through with some clutch hits in a few of the games he was in.

I'm not saying Rowand is a goint to blow everybody away with his stats. I think if Rowand is given the chance to prove himself, he could be a solid player.

So Rowand needs a chance...but Reed is unproven and therefore we should watch out for him?

RichH55
10-02-2003, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
If you haven't noticed, some of the KEY missing facets of the Sox' game the past couple years are:

1) Patience (not striking out so much also)
2) Speed
3) Instincts
4) OF's with range.
5) Left handed bats who can hit lefties

All of those are things that Reed does that Rowand does not. The Sox do not need another 100+ K machine with a sub-.300 OBP.


I agree on many points....but I'm not as down on the K's as you are. In fact...at a certain point I cheer for K's....mainly when Konerko is up with a man on first and less than 2 outs

RichH55
10-02-2003, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
No, he's not as big (ie. long strider) like Borchard is. He has more speed and quicker accelleration, although at the same point in their developments, Anderson doesn't project to as much power as LTP did.

Anderson will hit for a higher average and has a better judgement/discipline of the strike zone. He still has 30 HR power, but he's a more natural CF'er. Borchard will be fine in CF and better than Rowand or Harris, but the question now is, 1) Will he hit enough, and 2) will the Sox need him there?

My opinion is Borchard, if he hits enough to warrant the role, will end up replacing Maggs in RF with Reed as your CF'er. At some future point, I think you'll see Anderson in center and Reed in LF.

This is, of course, assuming they all develop and progress well.

Does anyone project to as much power at LTP?

I mean seriously, throughout the minors.....He has negatives and his progress has been slower than we would have liked.....but does anyone project to his power?

Randar68
10-02-2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Does anyone project to as much power at LTP?

I mean seriously, throughout the minors.....He has negatives and his progress has been slower than we would have liked.....but does anyone project to his power?

Prince Fielder for one. Adam Dunn... Nobody in the 2003 draft projected to the power potential Borchard did in his draft year and the first yeara or so he spent in the minors.

Now the question is whether he'll hit enough to realize that power potential, but that's another topic for another show.

Craptastic
10-03-2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
I don't understand this unless there is a dearth of Rowand's family members who post on this board.


Main Entry: dearth
Pronunciation: 'd&rth
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English derthe, from (assumed) Old English dierth, from dEore dear
Date: 13th century
1 : scarcity that makes dear; specifically : FAMINE
2 : an inadequate supply : LACK

Is this what you meant?

Randar68
10-03-2003, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by Craptastic
Main Entry: dearth
Pronunciation: 'd&rth
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English derthe, from (assumed) Old English dierth, from dEore dear
Date: 13th century
1 : scarcity that makes dear; specifically : FAMINE
2 : an inadequate supply : LACK

Is this what you meant?

intended "wealth" or "surplus", but somehow wrote Dearth.


I'm glad we've returned to the "English and grammar police" on a message board.

Get a life.

FarWestChicago
10-03-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I'm glad we've returned to the "English and grammar police" on a message board.You need to have Nellie's style to do that. :smile:

34 Inch Stick
10-03-2003, 12:46 PM
Is he in the middle of a self imposed cooling off period or does he not post much during the off season?

PaleHoseGeorge
10-03-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Is he in the middle of a self imposed cooling off period or does he not post much during the off season?

I'm guessing he is still pissed off at me because he didn't respond to either my private email or PM's to him.

:?:

soxtalker
10-03-2003, 12:57 PM
I read through this thread again. Lots of criticism of Rowand for not having discipline at the plate and taking walks. I fully agree. Unfortunately, that is probably an appropriate criticism for many of our batters. Isn't Greg Walker teaching them to swing at the first pitch (or first pitch that they like)? If that's the case, how do we expect any of them -- let alone Rowand -- to change.

I also don't know how hard it is for a player to change his approach in this aspect of the game.

Randar68
10-03-2003, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
I read through this thread again. Lots of criticism of Rowand for not having discipline at the plate and taking walks. I fully agree. Unfortunately, that is probably an appropriate criticism for many of our batters. Isn't Greg Walker teaching them to swing at the first pitch (or first pitch that they like)? If that's the case, how do we expect any of them -- let alone Rowand -- to change.

I also don't know how hard it is for a player to change his approach in this aspect of the game.

Thomas, our best power hitter, drew the most walks and had the highest OBP, IIRC. Maggs, Konerko, CLee are all "Power hitters." At their positions, you don't expect them to be .380 OBP machines.

However, at CF, SS, 2B, (add possibly LF and 3B, depending on the makeup of the rest of the team) you need guys who have some semblence of speed and can take enough walks and see enough pitches to:

1) Be on base for the beest team hitters
2) Steal bases/put pressure on the pitchers
3) Make the pitchers throw more pitches. Get pitchers fatigued and the better hitters will see better pitches.


Hitting is a team concept, and I think it's something that's been lost on this team for several years.

Randar68
10-03-2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Isn't Greg Walker teaching them to swing at the first pitch (or first pitch that they like)?

And, no, that is not the case.

RichH55
10-03-2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Craptastic
Main Entry: dearth
Pronunciation: 'd&rth
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English derthe, from (assumed) Old English dierth, from dEore dear
Date: 13th century
1 : scarcity that makes dear; specifically : FAMINE
2 : an inadequate supply : LACK

Is this what you meant?


Man...Pre-Law from Champaign....too many of those around...You wouldn't happen to be in Accounting as well?

poorme
10-03-2003, 08:46 PM
rowand is worthless. i'd rather have willie harris out there.

voodoochile
10-03-2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by poorme
rowand is worthless. i'd rather have willie harris out there.

Welcome Aboard! :D:

Craptastic
10-03-2003, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
intended "wealth" or "surplus", but somehow wrote Dearth.


I'm glad we've returned to the "English and grammar police" on a message board.

Get a life.

Relax, killer. I was just trying to help.

soxtalker
10-04-2003, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
And, no, that is not the case.

What is Greg Walker's approach as a hitting coach?

Randar68
10-04-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Craptastic
Relax, killer. I was just trying to help.


Help what? Give me a F***ing break, dude. Aaron Rowand, is that you??? It certainly would explain your moniker.


Time to bust it out....






BLA!