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View Full Version : Treatment of Players and Bobby V.


faneidde
10-01-2003, 09:44 AM
I think the White Sox have turned the corner in the way they treat players. Colon and Alomar both wish to stay on with the team and sign muli-year deals. I don't think the significance of this can be understated. The way the Sox (and us fans) have treated Frank Thomas over the years may have given the impressions around the leauge that this organization does not treat its players well. The comments of Alomar, Colon, and Everett seem to suggest otherwise. It would be a huge boost to the organization's ability to both recruit and maintain free agents if they have this image around the league.

That brings me to my second point. The White Sox do not need Wally Backman as a manager. The Sox are mostly a veteran team that needs a manager with a little fire. Jerry Manuel had no fire, but Backman is a stick of dynamite away from being Terry Bevington. The Sox need to bring in a manager with excellent baseball sense who has worked with and succeeded with a veteran ball club in the past. The obvious choice is Bobby Valentine. He's had a few problems with players, but most players enjoyed playing for Valentine. He gives the veterans a lot of slack, but also brings accountability to the table. Look at the way the Mets fought back from that 3-0 deficit against the Braves a few years back and how they clawed to the world series the next year. The Mets have gotten a lot worse since he left. I hope he is at least given serious consideration by KW.

FarmerAndy
10-01-2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by faneidde
I think the White Sox have turned the corner in the way they treat players. . I don't think the significance of this can be understated.

The way the Sox have treated Frank Thomas over the years may have given the impressions around the leauge that this organization does not treat its players well.


Too bad they can't turn the corner in the way they continue to treat Frank Thomas.

hold2dibber
10-01-2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by faneidde
I think the White Sox have turned the corner in the way they treat players. Colon and Alomar both wish to stay on with the team and sign muli-year deals. I don't think the significance of this can be understated. The way the Sox (and us fans) have treated Frank Thomas over the years may have given the impressions around the leauge that this organization does not treat its players well. The comments of Alomar, Colon, and Everett seem to suggest otherwise. It would be a huge boost to the organization's ability to both recruit and maintain free agents if they have this image around the league.

You MAY be right, but I think I'll wait to see if Colon or Alomar actually sign on the dotted line before I necessarily agree with you. But it must be noted that there were no reports this year that I've heard of KW meddling in the clubhouse as he was accused of doing last year. That has to help. That plus the fact that he (and the organization) made it quite clear that they are aiming to win, period. That helps too.

That brings me to my second point. The White Sox do not need Wally Backman as a manager. The Sox are mostly a veteran team that needs a manager with a little fire. Jerry Manuel had no fire, but Backman is a stick of dynamite away from being Terry Bevington. The Sox need to bring in a manager with excellent baseball sense who has worked with and succeeded with a veteran ball club in the past. The obvious choice is Bobby Valentine. He's had a few problems with players, but most players enjoyed playing for Valentine. He gives the veterans a lot of slack, but also brings accountability to the table. Look at the way the Mets fought back from that 3-0 deficit against the Braves a few years back and how they clawed to the world series the next year. The Mets have gotten a lot worse since he left. I hope he is at least given serious consideration by KW.

I don't like Valentine - I think he's a blow hard. Plus, he has been slamming Frank Thomas all year. But I agree about Backman - I don't want an inexperienced powder keg managing this team. I keep coming back to three guys: Jim Leyland, Davey Johnson or Cito Gaston. I think all three of them would demand (and receive) respect the minute they walked through the door, all 3 know how to win with a veteran team, all 3 get the most out of the players, and all 3 make players accountable for their actions (as far as I can tell).

Lip Man 1
10-01-2003, 10:49 AM
When the White Sox stop considering themselves a "small market" (Jerry Reinsdorf's own words) team in the nation's 3rd largest market then they will have turned the corner.

When they do that the results will show on the field, off the field and in the payroll size.

Till then nothing's changed...or as a media acquaintance of mine (who is a die hard Sox fan) said:

"Williams sealed the club's fate, maybe the fate of the franchise, when he announced that all the coaches except Kimm would be back, 'because the new manager should have the ability to choose at least one of his coaches.' The only person who would want a job like that would be a minor-league type (Backman), a big-league coach who'd die for his first big-league managerial job (Ozzie) or someone who's been away for a few years and is desperate to get back in the loop (Cito Gaston).

Colon will leave, certainly, as will Everett and Gordon. R Alomar may stay because he has found a comfort zone, where he can play out the last year or two of his career,

And if the Cubs win one playoff series, the Sox will become so much of an afterthought here, they might as well move to Birmingham, to help save on Backman's moving expenses.

The right ownership would have done everything it could do get LaRussa back on the South Side, to combat the Cubs' success, and sign up the guys who need to be signed up....... What a great addiiton to the Cub-Sox hatred if LaRussa were able to be here to carry on his spat with Baker......... but this ownership isn't going to pay Manuel 1.2 million and another 3 million or so to LaRussa.

Sad."

Lip

fuzzy_patters
10-01-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1


"Williams sealed the club's fate, maybe the fate of the franchise, when he announced that all the coaches except Kimm would be back, 'because the new manager should have the ability to choose at least one of his coaches.' The only person who would want a job like that would be a minor-league type (Backman), a big-league coach who'd die for his first big-league managerial job (Ozzie) or someone who's been away for a few years and is desperate to get back in the loop (Cito Gaston).



As long as they sign Cito Gaston, I do not see what the problem is. You come plain long and hard that the Sox need to act like a large market team, but then you complain when the favorite to be their manager is likely a two time World Series winner.

Besides, I do not see what is wrong with signing a less proven manager, anyway. Neither Bobby Cox or Joe Torre were winners before coming to Atlanta and New York, respectively, but they have certainly been impressive over the last few years. Whomever he may be, we should try not to judge our manager until he has managed a few games. It would have been easy for Yankee fans to write off Joe Torre before he managed a New York game, but I think most of them are happy with him now.

Lip Man 1
10-01-2003, 06:19 PM
Fuzzy:

Please re read the post. I am not saying this, a friend of mine who is a Sox die hard and a member of the Chicago media is.

Lip

TornLabrum
10-01-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

Till then nothing's changed...or as a media acquaintance of mine (who is a die hard Sox fan) said:

"Williams sealed the club's fate, maybe the fate of the franchise, when he announced that all the coaches except Kimm would be back, 'because the new manager should have the ability to choose at least one of his coaches.' The only person who would want a job like that would be a minor-league type (Backman), a big-league coach who'd die for his first big-league managerial job (Ozzie) or someone who's been away for a few years and is desperate to get back in the loop (Cito Gaston).

When I use the phrase "at least" before a number, I always mean that number is the minimum. There is always the possiblity of reassigning people already under contract. (See Cooper, Don who was reassigned from the major league pitching coach job to a minor league position during Boomer's tenure as manager.)

Daver
10-01-2003, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
(See Cooper, Don who was reassigned from the major league pitching coach job to a minor league position during Boomer's tenure as manager.)

That was at Cooper's request,he did not want to be the pitching coach of the Major League club.

Nellie Comiskey
10-01-2003, 09:32 PM
Bobby V. has been a failure everywhere he's been....yes he did take the Mets to the Series....but they were only there physically. He gives too much slack to his players and basically is all about himself. From what I've heard all the legitimate quality players hated his self-promoting act. As for players wanting to stay in Chicago...it's great Alomar and Colon have a desire to stay, however the Sox should commit first to the future...young players who have many good years ahead. Watch, the handled Buerhle similar to the way they handled Jack McDowell. I guarantee you he will bolt as soon as he can. Alomar and Colon are good but their best days are behind them and do we really think the future is with them. I definitely want them to be resigned, my point is take care of the young players first: Buerhle. Back to the mgr vacancy....Backman would be perfect....this BS about players not wanting an in-your-face mgr is unbelievable. If there are such players do they really need to play for the Sox...hell know....they're being payed hundreds of thousands/millions of dollars and they don't want a boss to ride them and get the most out of there potential? That in itself is the reason the Sox are not playing this week!
Keep the faith....we still hammered the Cubs 4 of 6!
:comiskey

bc2k
10-01-2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by Nellie Comiskey
yes he did take the Mets to the Series....but they were only there physically.

Uh, I don't know what that means.

JRIG
10-01-2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber



I don't like Valentine - I think he's a blow hard. Plus, he has been slamming Frank Thomas all year. But I agree about Backman - I don't want an inexperienced powder keg managing this team. I keep coming back to three guys: Jim Leyland, Davey Johnson or Cito Gaston. I think all three of them would demand (and receive) respect the minute they walked through the door, all 3 know how to win with a veteran team, all 3 get the most out of the players, and all 3 make players accountable for their actions (as far as I can tell).

I think Davey Johnson is the perfect, perfect fit for this club. He wins everywhere he goes and though it seems like he's been around forever, he's only 61.

I don't think Cito Gaston is the answer, but I'd rather see him than TLR.