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PaleHoseGeorge
08-29-2001, 08:17 PM
Looks like a pulled muscle; maybe a hamstring.

I'll play $500 RIGHT NOW to Herm Schneider if he can find some excuse for putting Royce Clayton on the DL for the remainder of the season.

This might be our big break!!!!
:)

Jerry_Manuel
08-29-2001, 08:18 PM
:milk
Does that mean I would get to play?

KempersRS
08-29-2001, 08:19 PM
This might be our big break!!!!

:versatile
"The big break was calling me up."

Daver
08-29-2001, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
:)[/scroll]

I will give Herm an entire Caribou backstrap on top of that $500,he could eat good for a week and still have the money.
C'mon,Herm come through for the team.

Randar68
08-29-2001, 11:01 PM
I will give Herm an entire Caribou backstrap on top of that $500,he could eat good for a week and still have the money.

Seen Herb lately???? I'm not so sure that backstrap would make it to tomorrow morning! LOL!!!

Daver
08-29-2001, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Seen Herb lately???? I'm not so sure that backstrap would make it to tomorrow morning! LOL!!!

Are you trying to say that Herm needs to learn to push away from the dinner table?

FarWestChicago
08-29-2001, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Seen Herb lately???? I'm not so sure that backstrap would make it to tomorrow morning! LOL!!!

Randar's got a point there, Daver.

chisoxfanatic
08-29-2001, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
:milk
Does that mean I would get to play?

:graff
Jerry wants me to play!

Heather the Redbird

Mathew
08-30-2001, 04:35 AM
This is the best injury that we've had all year. With all the hurt that made us worse, it is great that one makes us better.

LuvChiSox
08-30-2001, 09:50 AM
RC is listed as day-to-day. If he ends up not playing for several games, it will be interesting to see how the "real" Sox players do. With the cleveland series coming up, we can only hope that RC sits out all weekend.

And some key wins without clayton might show KW that we don't need that jacka$$.

voodoochile
08-30-2001, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by LuvChiSox
RC is listed as day-to-day. If he ends up not playing for several games, it will be interesting to see how the "real" Sox players do. With the cleveland series coming up, we can only hope that RC sits out all weekend.

And some key wins without clayton might show KW that we don't need that jacka$$.

Anybody else notice the bang bang dive for the grounder throw from his knees near-miss that Manos made last night at short? Royce doesn't even touch that ball...

Bmr31
08-30-2001, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Anybody else notice the bang bang dive for the grounder throw from his knees near-miss that Manos made last night at short? Royce doesn't even touch that ball...


THis is pathetic. You are all looking for an excuse and a scapegoat. Royce Clayton is not the reason the sox have had an average season.

voodoochile
08-30-2001, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31



THis is pathetic. You are all looking for an excuse and a scapegoat. Royce Clayton is not the reason the sox have had an average season.

Where did I say Royce was the reason we have been average this season? You hate it when others put words in your mouth...

Pot... kettle...

I was only pointing out that Manos is underrated at SS. He actually gets to more chances than Royce and when you add in his bat, the comparison doesn't even come close...

The reason the Sox have been so bad to date has WAY more to do with the loss of Frank and all the pitchers than Royce anybody can see that...

Bmr31
08-30-2001, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Where did I say Royce was the reason we have been average this season? You hate it when others put words in your mouth...

Pot... kettle...

I was only pointing out that Manos is underrated at SS. He actually gets to more chances than Royce and when you add in his bat, the comparison doesn't even come close...

The reason the Sox have been so bad to date has WAY more to do with the loss of Frank and all the pitchers than Royce anybody can see that...

i didnt mention you specifically. iM just sick of guys blaming everything on Royce. Hes not a great player, i know. Hes also not to blame.

voodoochile
08-30-2001, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31


i didnt mention you specifically. iM just sick of guys blaming everything on Royce. Hes not a great player, i know. Hes also not to blame.

You saying that Clayton has nothing to do with the Sox not performing up to expectations this year? That's a little shortsighted don't you think?

Bmr31
08-30-2001, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


You saying that Clayton has nothing to do with the Sox not performing up to expectations this year? That's a little shortsighted don't you think?

nope. If i thought that, i wouldnt have said what i said, now would i?

AnnaKfan
08-30-2001, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31
THis is pathetic. You are all looking for an excuse and a scapegoat. Royce Clayton is not the reason the sox have had an average season.


I don't believe anybody made an excuse or cast Royce as a scapegoat. Many of us feel he's been a significant contributor to the team's failure.

So why do you think "Royce Clayton is not the reason the sox have had an average season?" Can we quote you or are you going to duck this question?

voodoochile
08-30-2001, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31


nope. If i thought that, i wouldnt have said what i said, now would i?

Would you please tell me what you think the reasons are? I would be interested in hearing your opinion...

Bmr31
08-30-2001, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Would you please tell me what you think the reasons are? I would be interested in hearing your opinion...

The sox record would be about the same with or without royce. To blame our average season on him, is not right.

voodoochile
08-30-2001, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31


The sox record would be about the same with or without royce. To blame our average season on him, is not right.

Okay, so why are we so average? Typical stuff? (loss of Frank, pitching injuries, lack of a set lineup?)

I personally don't think Royce has helped at all, so to me he shares some of the blame, just as does everyone who has had a less than stellar season (even Haaarold to an extent...)

:)

Bmr31
08-30-2001, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Okay, so why are we so average? Typical stuff? (loss of Frank, pitching injuries, lack of a set lineup?)

I personally don't think Royce has helped at all, so to me he shares some of the blame, just as does everyone who has had a less than stellar season (even Haaarold to an extent...)

:)


Has he helped? Not really. He has less errors, but his hitting sucks. Over and over and over i read Royce bashing on this board. Guys want to blame him because he is new. The reason for our average season? Loss of Frank, Loss of veteran pitching, lack of clutch hitting,lack of hitting in general. It really has nothing to do with royce.

voodoochile
08-30-2001, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31



Has he helped? Not really. He has less errors, but his hitting sucks. Over and over and over i read Royce bashing on this board. Guys want to blame him because he is new. The reason for our average season? Loss of Frank, Loss of veteran pitching, lack of clutch hitting,lack of hitting in general. It really has nothing to do with royce.

Well, in fairness, he has contributed to the lack of hitting....

Bmr31
08-30-2001, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Well, in fairness, he has contributed to the lack of hitting....

Correct. But he has improve the defense. It washes out.

Paulwny
08-30-2001, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


Correct. But he has improve the defense. It washes out.

Agree, no one expected Clayton to hit above .260.

voodoochile
08-30-2001, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


Correct. But he has improve the defense. It washes out.

I disagree here. Jose playing everyday as SS and Perry at 3rd would have more than made up offensively for any better defense that Clayton has contributed. Besides, Jose has better range and armstrength, so the Sox would have more DPs this year if he were at SS (IMO). I am not sold on Royce's D making up for the 200 OPS points he gives up to Jose...

Bmr31
08-30-2001, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


I disagree here. Jose playing everyday as SS and Perry at 3rd would have more than made up offensively for any better defense that Clayton has contributed. Besides, Jose has better range and armstrength, so the Sox would have more DPs this year if he were at SS (IMO). I am not sold on Royce's D making up for the 200 OPS points he gives up to Jose...

You may be right, and thats a matter to debate. But, its not royces fault that we are average. If he has added anything to our lackluster season, it isnt a lot. On the other hand, compare what he has contributed to the sub par season, to the amount of bashing he gets on this board. Is it fair? I think it is not.

Randar68
08-30-2001, 12:26 PM
On the other hand, compare what he has contributed to the sub par season, to the amount of bashing he gets on this board. Is it fair? I think it is not.

While I don't participate, hitting .099 over the first 2 critical months where we just sucked has more than warranted the criticism, despite what his average since is. We play .500 ball the first 2 months, we're in 1st place....

BTW, you'll note the criticism has died down significantly....

voodoochile
08-30-2001, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


You may be right, and thats a matter to debate. But, its not royces fault that we are average. If he has added anything to our lackluster season, it isnt a lot. On the other hand, compare what he has contributed to the sub par season, to the amount of bashing he gets on this board. Is it fair? I think it is not.

Royce became the whipping boy in May when his average dropped to .099 on my b-day (I was there) before getting a hit in the ninth. He was later benched (finally) and made some really stupid comments along the lines of, "Now I know what I have to do to play everyday." Well... DUH!!!

Anyone notice how hard he was running last night when he pulled his hammy? Maybe KW should have said he was as good as gone in early May...

Hundley for Prez
08-30-2001, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


Correct. But he has improve the defense. It washes out.

This is way off base.

It has been proven that the best defensive players, in this case shortstops such as Rey Sanchez and Neifi Perez, save their teams a maximum of 40 runs a season with their defense when compared to a league average player. Most "good " defensive SS, such as Rey Ordonez, Alex Rodriguez and Omar Vizquel only save their teams about 10 runs a year. I would venture to say that Royce has only saved us 5-10 runs more than Jose would have in that same role. That may be an overestimation. Jose may turn out to be equal, if not better, due to his better range and arm.

Offensively, to say Royce has been bad is an understatement. This has been his worst year by a long shot, and he has been a below average hitter for his entire career. He played the last few years in a hitters park in Texas, and his numbers there were nothing special, particularly in comparision to the mammoth numbers Jose put up last year. Jose is not having as good of a year this year IMO, but he still currently ranks as about 25 runs better than Royce from an offensive standpiont. This is not a huge number, but it's the difference that can make a playoff caliber team play at a .500 level. If Royce was getting paid 500K a year, I wouldn't be upset with his performance, but at his salary, he has been an unnecessary disaster.

Royce is not emtirely to blame for our underachievement. Frank's injury hurt a great amount, especially before the Canseco signing. Playing Baines and J.Ramirez combined with the Paul/Alomar and Clayton spots was virtually giving opponents four free outs each time through the lineup. When all is said and done, our pitching has been no worse than last year. The blame has to go to the lineup. Now that the lineup has a better catcher in Johnson, a better righty OF in Rowand, and Canseco, we have hit better. Getting Royce out and getting Perry or Graffanino into the lineup will make us better.

Go Sox

longshot7
08-30-2001, 06:30 PM
I agree - lay off of Royce. Nobody expected him to become A-Rod. His defense has been pretty stellar - what's his fielding percentage again?

I probably wouldn't notice it as much if PHG didn't rip him in every recap and across the header on the front page all the time.

I'd bring him back next year even,

PaleHoseGeorge
08-30-2001, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
I'd bring him back next year even,


I would bring him back, too. Comiskey's valet service hasn't been the same since we let Ken Hill go.

:)

The point is moot. Even Sully is suggesting Clayton is on his way out. KW "wasn't sure" what the Sox would do with him--not a good sign for the $4 million a year shortstop.

Sure, bring him back. Other people's money, right?

longshot7
08-30-2001, 07:14 PM
Who's Sully?

Sure, all of our talk is moot, unless KW is easily swayed, and I highly doubt that.

Jerry_Manuel
08-30-2001, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
Who's Sully?

Sure, all of our talk is moot, unless KW is easily swayed, and I highly doubt that.

Sully is Paul Sullivan the Sox beat writer for the Trib.