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MarqSox
09-28-2003, 09:56 PM
I can't believe nobody has posted this yet ... the Cardinals board is going nuts over this rumor, which has supposedly been reported by The Score. They say Reinsdorf is working a trade of Buehrle for LaRussa, with TLR to get manager/GM duties. Presumably, KW would be fired as well as JM.
Linky (http://www.cardsclubhouse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2908&highlight=)

oheeoh...magglio
09-28-2003, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I can't believe nobody has posted this yet ... the Cardinals board is going nuts over this rumor, which has supposedly been reported by The Score. They say Reinsdorf is working a trade of Buehrle for LaRussa, with TLR to get manager/GM duties. Presumably, KW would be fired as well as JM.
Linky (http://www.cardsclubhouse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2908&highlight=)

Hmm intriguing, but WHY WOULD WE FIRE KENNY??????? :angry:

JRIG
09-28-2003, 10:03 PM
I can't fathom this happening. Giving up a great young pitcher whose rights we hold until the end of the 2005 season for "The Tinkerer" Part 2? It just doesn't make any sense to me unless Jerry is really opening up the purse strings and will spend huge $$ on pitching for next season.


By the way, I know TLR is a better manager than Jerry (pretty much would have to be, no?) but he's a tinkerer and I don't think he's the best fit for the club.

Jjav829
09-28-2003, 10:03 PM
Bwahahahaha. Heres what some dope posted in that thread:

Risk, man oh man! I also thought it was just smoke thats why I didn't say anything but the more this goes on I think something is gonna happen! I'd try to package TLR for Mark and....hmmm... Carlos Lee? If ole Jerry REALLY wants TLR I'd try to get a good deal if I were Walt.

Wow, what a deal. Mark Buehrle AND Carlos Lee for Tony freaking LaRussa. Where do I sign?

SoxxoS
09-28-2003, 10:12 PM
No offense to MarqSox, and I know it is a rumor...but think about it.

:threadsucks

npdempse
09-28-2003, 10:12 PM
Does this EVER happen? Player for a manager? Esp. Buehrle.

Are the guys in St. Louis typing on their laptops while sitting in their idling Buick Roadmasters in closed garages?

MarqSox
09-28-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
No offense to MarqSox, and I know it is a rumor...but think about it.

:threadsucks
Hey man, I'm just passing on the speculation, I didn't endorse it. Don't shoot the messenger.

MarqSox
09-28-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by npdempse
Does this EVER happen? Player for a manager? Esp. Buehrle.

Are the guys in St. Louis typing on their laptops while sitting in their idling Buick Roadmasters in closed garages?
Well, yeah ... Randy Winn for Lou Piniella last year comes to mind ...

anewman35
09-28-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by npdempse
Does this EVER happen? Player for a manager? Esp. Buehrle.



It does, Tampa Bay got Pinella for Randy Winn.

MRKARNO
09-28-2003, 10:16 PM
Maybe we can package Rowand, Miles and Harris for TLR

But I'd doubt we'd have to give up a player the calibur of Buehrle to get TLR. Maybe that's just the starting point like 7 million a year for Colon

Lip Man 1
09-28-2003, 10:19 PM
Chuck Tanner went from manager of Oakland to the Pirates manager for Manny Sanguillen.

Lip

soxwon
09-28-2003, 10:33 PM
trade buehrle yess for TLR, then we can sign Colon get Schilling for Carlos Lee and Livan Hernandez for Konerko,
print those Series tix NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

voodoochile
09-28-2003, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by soxwon
trade buehrle yess for TLR, then we can sign Colon get Schilling for Carlos Lee and Livan Hernandez for Konerko,
print those Series tix NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

*****! Pass the bong, rev...

MRKARNO
09-28-2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by soxwon
trade buehrle yess for TLR, then we can sign Colon get Schilling for Carlos Lee and Livan Hernandez for Konerko,
print those Series tix NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

I really hope this was meant to be in teal or deep pink I dont know what to make of this, but in order for schilling to come here we'd need JR to sell.......

soxwon
09-28-2003, 10:41 PM
which part dont you like?
i gave the bong up in the 80s lol
i know we will get Schilling-probably for more than Lee but we will get him.
have Faith my fellow Fans

voodoochile
09-28-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by soxwon
which part dont you like?
i gave the bong up in the 80s lol
i know we will get Schilling-probably for more than Lee but we will get him.
have Faith my fellow Fans

I like the enthusiasm, but you are crazy...

Viva Magglio
09-28-2003, 10:44 PM
The Cards Clubhouse thread goes on to mention that ESPN 1000 has picked up on the Score's story. Also, I think they would make KW "team president" or something in the event of TRL being named GM. While I would like to see TLR succeed Jerry Manuel, I do not like this rumored deal on the surface. I do not want to gain TLR at the expense of our rotation.

soxwon
09-28-2003, 10:45 PM
fair enough voodoo- ill accept that i am crazy
im a frickin lifelong soxfan- i havent caved in to the flubs and never will
But i truely believe we will get TLR and AROD

voodoochile
09-28-2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
The Cards Clubhouse thread goes on to mention that ESPN 1000 has picked up on the Score's story. Also, I think they would make KW "team president" or something in the event of TRL being named GM. While I would like to see TLR succeed Jerry Manuel, I do not like this rumored deal on the surface. I do not want to gain TLR at the expense of our rotation.

I thought JR was the president. Maybe he really is being pushed into the background ala Michael McCaskey. If they can't force JR to sell the team, they can at least make it look like he has no more say in the day2day decisions. Besides, if/when the day ever does come that the Sox win the pennant, JR will be the only real recognizable face among the ownership, so he will still get his moment in the sun.

voodoochile
09-28-2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by soxwon
fair enough voodoo- ill accept that i am crazy
im a frickin lifelong soxfan- i havent caved in to the flubs and never will
But i truely believe we will get TLR and AROD

Who needs to cave into the flubbies when you are as far gone as their fans are.

Schilling, ARod, Colon, Hernandez and the Sox get to dump Konehead's contract to boot? Let me guess, we are trading Koch for Maddux and Smoltz too...

Viva Magglio
09-28-2003, 10:51 PM
Has anyone been listening to the Score or ESPN 1000 since our game ended today? They both had Cubs postgame shows on and then went into national programming (Colts-Saints on the Score, Gamenight on ESPN 1000). If these TLR rumors were reported on those stations, I figure it would have taken place before 7:00 p.m.

balboner
09-28-2003, 11:07 PM
I pray to god that this rumor is not accurate. We could get alot more for Buehrle than some underachieving manager (the Cards were brutal this year). Also, LaRussa would not make a very good GM in my opinion. If we were to do this, we better be sure we could sign Colon, or else our rotation might suck big time. This would go against everything KW has stated lately.

gosox41
09-28-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I can't believe nobody has posted this yet ... the Cardinals board is going nuts over this rumor, which has supposedly been reported by The Score. They say Reinsdorf is working a trade of Buehrle for LaRussa, with TLR to get manager/GM duties. Presumably, KW would be fired as well as JM.
Linky (http://www.cardsclubhouse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2908&highlight=)

This would be the dumbest move I'v ever seen assuming it happens the way it's posted above.

Bob

soxtalker
09-28-2003, 11:15 PM
I checked out the link to the Cardinals board in the starting post. It seems like most of them don't even know who Buerhle is and how good he probably will be. Some seem happy to see TLR go.

In another vein, it seems strange that LaRussa would want to put up with many of the headaches that come with being GM. Oh, I'm sure that he wants control over personnel decisions. But there's a lot more to the job. I don't get the sense that KW is exactly taking it easy.

jeremyb1
09-28-2003, 11:28 PM
I think Buehrle is obviously way too much and I don't want La Russa as our GM.

balboner
09-28-2003, 11:42 PM
This "trade" makes no sense. KW has received praise from all over the last few months, I dont think he'd be fired or have his position changed. I dont want LaRussa at all, even if I do love his hatred for that racist Dusty!

ChiWhiteSox1337
09-29-2003, 12:11 AM
while i do like the idea of bringing in TRL, burly is just way too much. the cardinals imploded this year although much can be blamed due to the bullpen and starting pitching(matt morris was out for an extra month just because he fell running for an elevator!). I heard he also likes to tinker a lot, how about us giving them JM for TRL? :D

Lip Man 1
09-29-2003, 12:30 AM
Let me preface this by saying I have no idea if this is accurate or connected in anyway to this LaRussa rumor.

Thank you.

Now for what it's worth I have just been told by a sports media acquaintance that he has heard the St. Louis Cardinals have called a press conference for Wednesday.

Again this may be total bunk but I'm passing it along FYI.

Also Phil Rogers in the Tribune has just posted a column saying that LaRussa should be the first choice of the Sox. He also said Bobby Valentine probably isn't going to be considered. Valentine "coveted" the Cubs job according to Rogers and is close friends with Tom Paciorek who happens to know a few things about working for Jerry Reinsdorf.

Lip

MarqSox
09-29-2003, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
He also said Bobby Valentine probably isn't going to be considered. Valentine "coveted" the Cubs job according to Rogers and is close friends with Tom Paciorek who happens to know a few things about working for Jerry Reinsdorf.

Lip
Not to mention, Valentine has been taking cheap shots at Thomas all season on BBTN. If there wasn't a personal grudge between those two before, there is now ...

jabrch
09-29-2003, 07:41 AM
I am 100% in favor of LaRussa being the next manager. I'd be thrilled. However, if it is at the expense of Mark Buehrle, I would be 100% opposed. STL is trying to get rid of LaRussa cuz of his incessant tinkering. I don't mind that...I really don't. But We have Buehrle locked up for 2 more years (2004 and 2005) at arbitration rates. I would not be willing to give him up for a manager. Now if they want Konerko...

Kilroy
09-29-2003, 07:56 AM
I wouldn't mind LaRussa coming back to the Sox at all. But the Sox shouldn't be giving up any players to get him. And giving up Buehrle? That would be ****ing stupid.

If TLR is somehow available, I don't think we should be going to far into the ML roster to compensate. And if he does come, I don't think he should be the GM. This isn't like NFL where there's not many trades to begin with, and he'd have time to do that work as well as manage. How many times have we heard KW say that he's working phones night and day?

Further, after 3 years, I, along with many of you, seem to be finding some things in KW that I like. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. But he seems to have a strong desire to win, and isn't afraid to take aggressive steps in making it happen. And he also wants to win now, and is not looking at minor league development/5 year plans. He's made mistakes, for sure. Big ones too. But I'd hate to see some new guy come in w/ a whole new philosophy that means Sox fans will have to suffer thru another rebuilding.

Mammoo
09-29-2003, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
....KW would be fired as well as JM.

That would be a major injustice. KW deserves a raise for the job he did this year. :angry:

Besides one man can't do both jobs...it's virtually impossible, even for the great Tony LaRussa. Quite frankly, I'm surprised the Score would go with such a story. Must be another Terry Boers rumor like the David Terrell to the 49ers joke!!! :?:

dickallen15
09-29-2003, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by Mammoo
That would be a major injustice. KW deserves a raise for the job he did this year. :angry:

Besides one man can't do both jobs...it's virtually impossible, even for the great Tony LaRussa. Quite frankly, I'm surprised the Score would go with such a story. Must be another Terry Boers rumor like the David Terrell to the 49ers joke!!! :?:


The Score goes to team's message boards and reports all the rumors. Make something up and it probably will get airtime. This is not going to happen.

idseer
09-29-2003, 08:08 AM
hmmmmmmmmmm

now who suggested this possibility 2 days ago? :)

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=249141#post249141

Hokiesox
09-29-2003, 08:16 AM
If pitching is KW's priority, this would not be a good start. Heck, I'm starting to really like KW as our GM, so I would hate that aspect of the "trade." And, even if the Sox could only keep him for one more year, Buerle should be in this rotation. There's no other way around it.

I very vaguely remember TLR's managing days, I think I was in 4th or 5th grade when he got canned. But, from what I remember, he was decent. But, if he comes back, they better bring back the 1983 uniforms too!

voodoochile
09-29-2003, 08:28 AM
With the KW rumors flying, one wonders if there was some agreement between him and JR. KW followed the exact opposite strategy that Schu followed in building this team. He may have staked his job on the team making the playoffs either knowingly or unknowingly.

Having traded off so much of the high minor league "talent" JR might be mad at him also for leaving the Sox in a bind where they have to spend money to be successful. We all know that JR hates to spend money on the team...

BeerHandle
09-29-2003, 09:37 AM
Buerhle for TLR - NO WAY!!! It is rumored that St. Louis Management does not want LaRuss back. Why would we trade for him when they will let him go........have you ever played poker?

valposoxfan
09-29-2003, 09:44 AM
Yeah I agree with Beerhandle...have you guys maybe thought that LaRussa may be getting let go...Just a thought. I also want to throw out one more thing. I am extremely intrigued with Ozzie Guillen as a candidate. Give it a shot maybe. I'd love it. This will be an interesting offseason.

MarqSox
09-29-2003, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by valposoxfan
I am extremely intrigued with Ozzie Guillen as a candidate. Give it a shot maybe. I'd love it. This will be an interesting offseason.
I think Ozzie would make a good manager of a "Kids Can Play" type team, but the Sox are a bunch of veterans now, they need a proven winner. Besides, I get the feeling Sweet Lou is grooming Ozzie to be his successor in a few years down in Tampa.

dickallen15
09-29-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I think Ozzie would make a good manager of a "Kids Can Play" type team, but the Sox are a bunch of veterans now, they need a proven winner. Besides, I get the feeling Sweet Lou is grooming Ozzie to be his successor in a few years down in Tampa.

How could Lou be grooming Ozzie? Ozzie is with Florida.

WWIII
09-29-2003, 10:21 AM
I'd be willing to give up Burhle and someone else (Wright, Valentin) if we could pull Renteria out of St. Louis.

MarqSox
09-29-2003, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by dickallen15
How could Lou be grooming Ozzie? Ozzie is with Florida.
Wow, my bad, big brain cramp there. I got my Florida teams with old managers confused. Guess I meant Jack McKeon. :smile: My main point stands though, that Ozzie would be a better fit for a young rebuilding team.

dickallen15
09-29-2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Wow, my bad, big brain cramp there. I got my Florida teams with old managers confused. Guess I meant Jack McKeon. :smile: My main point stands though, that Ozzie would be a better fit for a young rebuilding team.


I think your right about that. Maybe they see what Pena did in KC and will try to recreate that. I don't think Pena's act would work with a veteran club.

JRIG
09-29-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I think Ozzie would make a good manager of a "Kids Can Play" type team, but the Sox are a bunch of veterans now, they need a proven winner. Besides, I get the feeling Sweet Lou is grooming Ozzie to be his successor in a few years down in Tampa.

If you (and I use you as a general term) are disgusted with the White Sox free-swinging ways, I'm not sure how hiring a man who never walked more than 26 times in a season will help that problem in the least.

valposoxfan
09-29-2003, 11:11 AM
This is a unique situation though with Ozzie. He hasn't been away from this team for more than a decade, he can really relate with the players, especially in this organization, and he commands respect through his actions. I'm not sure Ozzie is only a "These Kids Can Play" type of manager. He would run a strict yet enjoyable clubhouse and would get along great with the players. He is young, excitable, and has managerial potential. I'm not saying hire him but at least give it a serious thought.

34 Inch Stick
09-29-2003, 11:14 AM
Just because it hasn't been said in a page or so "THIS THREAD SUCKS"

Sure you would trade Buhrle for LaRussa- if he had Matt Morris strapped to his back.

Even if LaRussa was the absolute best man for the job this would be a bad trade.

This is not even a logical rumor. The SCORE should be embarassed. The people in St. Louis are a bunch of rubes anyway, so I would expect them to believe.

1951Campbell
09-29-2003, 11:31 AM
Please God, whoever the new skipper is, don't make him the GM too. That setup just doesn't work. I'm having flashbacks to my time in Boston when Ricky Pitino stuck with Vitaly Potempenko merely because Ricky picked him, and he couldn't admit he was wrong. Bad. Bad.

And why fire KW? I think he's redeemed himself.

Unregistered
09-29-2003, 11:38 AM
Didn't KW say at one point in the season (when his kids were arrested), that at the end of the season he was going to consider stepping down because he was not devoting any time to his family? I bring this up because everyone keeps mentioning that KW "doesn't deserve to be fired", but it seems that no one considers the possibility that he might decide to resign on his own.

Did I miss when KW said that he was definately planning on coming back next year? :?:

TDog
09-29-2003, 11:39 AM
This rumor sounds like a Cardinals fan's pipe dream based upon the conclusion that we have something they want, and they have something we want. Frankly, I would want more from the Cardinals than TLR.

As for such an announcement coming out of a Wednesday news conference, I had thought teams had to wait until five days after the World Series to announce trades. Unless baseball has changed more rules. A news conference on at the beginning of post-season play would probably concern a managerial or front office firing, resignation or contract extension.

Viva Magglio
09-29-2003, 11:47 AM
The Score has not reported this rumor all morning. What do you think, Hawk?

:hawk
That rumor is total BS!

JRIG
09-29-2003, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by 1951Campbell
Please God, whoever the new skipper is, don't make him the GM too. That setup just doesn't work. I'm having flashbacks to my time in Boston when Ricky Pitino stuck with Vitaly Potempenko merely because Ricky picked him, and he couldn't admit he was wrong. Bad. Bad.

And why fire KW? I think he's redeemed himself.

Before we grant KW total redemption, let's remember he still is the guy who dumped Foulke for no particular reason, then gave Koch $6.35 million for the 2004 season before he threw a pitch for the Sox, and also gave Konerko the albatross of a contract that we're currently stuck with.

Yes, he got Carl Everett. Yes, he took a chance on Loaiza. Yes, he got us Colon. I don't think he should be fired right now. But I want at least one more off-season before I call him "redeemed."

voodoochile
09-29-2003, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by JRIG
Before we grant KW total redemption, let's remember he still is the guy who dumped Foulke for no particular reason, then gave Koch $6.35 million for the 2004 season before he threw a pitch for the Sox, and also gave Konerko the albatross of a contract that we're currently stuck with.

Yes, he got Carl Everett. Yes, he took a chance on Loaiza. Yes, he got us Colon. I don't think he should be fired right now. But I want at least one more off-season before I call him "redeemed."

The Foulke move was financial in nature, but at least he got back a guy who everyone thought would be a solid closer. I mean Koch may not have Foulke's numbers, but anyone who says they thought he would be as bad as he was has to be lying, IMO.

He also got Cotts in that trade and he may be a solid #4 starter in another year or two.

dickallen15
09-29-2003, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
The Score has not reported this rumor all morning. What do you think, Hawk?

:hawk
That rumor is total BS!

The rumor is BS. After the Piniella for Winn fiasco, MLB banned player for manager trades.

TDog
09-29-2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
The rumor is BS. After the Piniella for Winn fiasco, MLB banned player for manager trades.

So, if the Cardinals hold a news conference Wednesday announcing that TLR's addition to their 40-man player roster, the rumor might have some validity.

MarkEdward
09-29-2003, 12:11 PM
I'm obviously not one of Kenny Williams' biggest fans, but I'd much rather have Williams and Buehrle than LaRussa.

Some complain about Manuel's tinkering, but LaRussa is much worse (ask a Cardinal fan). He loves to use LOOGYS/ROOGYS, and he frequently keeps three(!) catchers on the roster.

Seriously, if TLR comes here, expect to have a 15-man pitching staff.

JRIG
09-29-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The Foulke move was financial in nature, but at least he got back a guy who everyone thought would be a solid closer. I mean Koch may not have Foulke's numbers, but anyone who says they thought he would be as bad as he was has to be lying, IMO.

He also got Cotts in that trade and he may be a solid #4 starter in another year or two.

I thought the Foulke trade was terrible (check the posts) but even I didn't think Koch would be this bad. I know the excuse is that the deal was financial in nature, but I don't buy that.

IIRC, we sent the A's cash in the deal. At the time, Foulke was due $6 million for the 2003 season and Koch was arb eligible. He probably would have made about $5 million. Instead, KW signed him to a two-year extension woth a possible $10.75 million. So instead of a $6 million commitment and then getting 2 high draft picks if Foulke left, the Sox had a $10.75 million commitment and sent cash to the A's in the deal.

I don't know, that doesn't seem like a good financial deal to me. I think KW was tired of Foulke and was looking to unload him.

I know, we're really beating a dead horse here.

oheeoh...magglio
09-29-2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
The rumor is BS. After the Piniella for Winn fiasco, MLB banned player for manager trades.

When did MLB ban player for manager trades?? And do you have a link from when this ban happened, because i'd be interested in seeing it. Good to hear that this is BS though, i HATE this idea, i'm just surprised it took 4 pages of this thread to mention that MLB banned these kinds of trades.