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doublem23
09-28-2003, 07:45 PM
I know there was a lot of talk about how a few starts may have costed him the Cy Young; but after his last 2 and being the AL Strike Out Leader, does he still have a realist shot or will the media continue their collective orgasm over the Red Sox?

FYI, Harold Reynolds on Baseball Tonight picked David Ortiz as his AL MVP. :?:

SoxxoS
09-28-2003, 07:52 PM
Big IF...

IF we won those damn 1-0 games against the 119 loss tigers, we aren't even having this Cy-Young discussion. 23-7. Damn.

Daver
09-28-2003, 07:52 PM
With wrapping up the lead in K's he will have to be considered for the Cy Young,21 wins and the K leader forces the issue.

idseer
09-28-2003, 08:01 PM
i doubt he'll be named mvp.

but i'd be surprised if he weren't the first pitcher to come into spring training not knowing whether he even had a job to be given strong consideration.

duke of dorwood
09-28-2003, 08:11 PM
Every pitcher loses some close games. He was dominant most of the year. If he wasn't a Sox player, it would be a lock.

voodoochile
09-28-2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Daver
With wrapping up the lead in K's he will have to be considered for the Cy Young,21 wins and the K leader forces the issue.

Isn't he close to the lead in SP ERA also?

Daver
09-28-2003, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Isn't he close to the lead in SP ERA also?

I don't know,I don't follow stats,I know at one point he was in the lead,so I would guess he is fairly close.

doublem23
09-28-2003, 08:26 PM
Regardless of whether he finished with the lead, his season ERA was under 3, so we got that going for us.

npdempse
09-28-2003, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Daver
I don't know,I don't follow stats,I know at one point he was in the lead,so I would guess he is fairly close.

He is close-ish. I think Pedro is at 2.40 and he's at 2.90 after today. Pedro pitched many fewer innings though. Halladay pitched many more, didn't get as many strikeouts, has an ERA of about 3.2.

So that puts Loaiza at
#1 SO
#2 ERA
#3(t) W

SoxxoS
09-28-2003, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by npdempse
He is close-ish. I think Pedro is at 2.40 and he's at 2.90 after today. Pedro pitched many fewer innings though. Halladay pitched many more, didn't get as many strikeouts, has an ERA of about 3.2.

So that puts Loaiza at
#1 SO
#2 ERA
#3(t) W

Halladay got his 22nd win yesterday, I believe. That would put Esteban all alone for 2nd in wins.

A lot easier when your team isn't in the playoff hunt, though.

Lip Man 1
09-28-2003, 09:56 PM
I believe the "official" White Sox web site had him 3rd in ERA, still a tremendous effort and season for him.

Lip

JRIG
09-28-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by doublem23

FYI, Harold Reynolds on Baseball Tonight picked David Ortiz as his AL MVP. :?:

Utterly ridiculous. A lot of the "experts" like to look smarter than everyone else when they make these picks and just end up looking dumb.

npdempse
09-28-2003, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Halladay got his 22nd win yesterday, I believe. That would put Esteban all alone for 2nd in wins.



We're both a little off--Moyer & Pettite also came up with 21.

VeeckAsInWreck
09-29-2003, 12:34 AM
:angry: Ugh, I hate the media! Why is Esteban not being taken seriously for the Cy Young?

I have heard stupid things like "well, Esteban's team not going to the post-season is going to hurt his Cy Young-Award chances."
What kind of crap is that? I don't see Halladay's team in there either. :angry: (lousy East-coast bias!)

Oh well, I am glad that ELo got to tie Fernando Valenzuela's record!
Viva Esteban!
-------------------------------
Dear Sports Writers,
when you go to vote, think about this man

Loaiza for 2003 AL Cy Young Award
:eloaiza:
Paid for by friends of Esteban Loaiza

RichH55
09-29-2003, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by npdempse
We're both a little off--Moyer & Pettite also came up with 21.


Toronto counts as East Coast Bias now?

VeeckAsInWreck
09-29-2003, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
Toronto counts as East Coast Bias now?

They play in the AL East, I don't see why not.

RichH55
09-29-2003, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
They play in the AL East, I don't see why not.


The huge allure of Canada and its baseball markets? The name reconigtion of Toronto's best ballplayers?

I think East Coast bias more than likely means Boston and New York and DC(where they have teams).........The Marlins are an East Coast team....I don't think they would qualify either as benefiting from this bias......IF Halladay was a Yankee, he already has that award sitting at home with him

But legions of Toronto sicophants(sic)? I just don't see it

Win1ForMe
09-29-2003, 01:01 AM
Just think, Loaiza and Halladay were team mates last year. Had Toronto kept Loaiza, they would have been really, really good.

Think about how much affect that could have had on the season and certain teams. It's conceivable that Toronto could have won the division with those two guys at the front end of their rotation and the type of hitting they had. Also, other clubs like the Yankees and/or Red Sox might not be in the playoffs and Joe Torre and Grady Little could both be getting fired tomorrow.

Of course without ELo, the Sox probably would have been gutted in July and in another rebuilding phase.