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RichH55
09-27-2003, 04:19 AM
Alrighty....been looking at more Konerko options......Now it seems more likely that Colon might be back

So, assuming Colon can be back(and losing Konerko's 8 million number certainly helps),.....Would you sweeten a deal to get Konerko gone?

I still think LA makes the most sense.

Mcgriff is gone and that is 3.4 million right there, and I want to deal for Perez(3.5 or so, but would probably be looking more like 4-5 depending on his FA status)....relatively close to Konerko's 9(once the trade kicker is thrown in).....but if you deal a Wright or Garland too, then it makes more sense from both sides

With Colon back, and Perez in the deal, still have 4 guys for the rotation.

Konerko and Wright(Or Garland -who would bring back more in value) for Perez and ? from LA?

Frank goes to 1B.....that means DH is the open slot, so the best hitter can make the team out of Spring Training(Reed or Borchard??)

PaleHoseGeorge
09-27-2003, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
Alrighty....been looking at more Konerko options......Now it seems more likely that Colon might be back

So, assuming Colon can be back(and losing Konerko's 8 million number certainly helps),.....Would you sweeten a deal to get Konerko gone?

I've said this many times, so my apologies to anyone who is tired of hearing it.

We ought to PAY for the privilege of dumping Paul Konerko and his albatross salary. Every million we save is a million we can spend on something that helps us win, signing Colon for example.

"A penny saved is a penny earned."
--Ben Franklin

"A million saved is a million earned."
--PHG


:gulp:

fquaye149
09-27-2003, 11:21 AM
^fair enough....but in reality we can probably wring something out of paulie.

Win1ForMe
09-27-2003, 11:31 AM
Yeah, we should pay the Dodgers for taking Konerko, whether it's paying part of the contract or giving them a decent prospect. I'm not even sure if it makes sense for us to get Perez...I guess it depends if the Dodgers still view him as an asset or are actively shopping to get rid of him. If we take Perez's contract back, we'd save somewhere around $3 Mil but we'd still have to fill the hole at 1B/DH.

My guess is the Sox would rather free themselves of the $8 M rather than have $3 mil and Perez.

Gumshoe
09-27-2003, 11:39 AM
Reasonably, I think we saw that this team went or didn't go with Konerko. Now, did you guys see this article or letter today to the Trib? It blamed Koch and Konerko. Those two are apples and oranges. Konerko had a terrible first half, yes. Koch had just as bad of one, and NO second half. Konerko put up BIG numbers in teh 2nd half. And, we won.

I'm not averse to listening to options, but who plays first if we get rid of Konerko? Daubach? Sorry guys, Thomas is terrible and (although they won't get rid of him), I think we can't win with him. At least, he'll need a new manager.

You can see that JM really wasn't that huge of a Thomas fan when it outright said that Carlos Lee, who has arrived, was the real MVP. Dump Thomas and then think about the other options, which may or may not be dealing Konerko. I'd keep him just because he can be very dangerous and his value is still very very low. You don't trade guys at that value, when you know their stats will improve the next year, unequivocally.

Deadguy
09-27-2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
Reasonably, I think we saw that this team went or didn't go with Konerko. Now, did you guys see this article or letter today to the Trib? It blamed Koch and Konerko. Those two are apples and oranges. Konerko had a terrible first half, yes. Koch had just as bad of one, and NO second half. Konerko put up BIG numbers in teh 2nd half. And, we won.

What nonsense. The Sox played fairly well in June, while Konerko was hitting .098 and actually hurting the team. Saying he's the X factor is ridiculous, since he has NEVER been an impact player.

I'm not averse to listening to options, but who plays first if we get rid of Konerko? Daubach? Sorry guys, Thomas is terrible and (although they won't get rid of him), I think we can't win with him. At least, he'll need a new manager.

That makes sense. Our .235 hitting 1B is the X factor, yet a perennial MVP candidate is the one we can't win with.

You can see that JM really wasn't that huge of a Thomas fan when it outright said that Carlos Lee, who has arrived, was the real MVP. Dump Thomas and then think about the other options, which may or may not be dealing Konerko. I'd keep him just because he can be very dangerous and his value is still very very low. You don't trade guys at that value, when you know their stats will improve the next year, unequivocally.

And it's a given that Konerko will improve next year, why? Was he injured this year? Is he a 22 year old rookie who can only get better? Did he just become complacent this year after getting a big contract, and will rededicate himself next year?

Konerko is notorious for disappearing at least one month a season. This year he was a laughing stock in the 1st half of season, and in case you haven't noticed, he's 3 for his last 48, and hitting below .200 in September.

Doesn't really look like he's a guarantee to do anything next year.

harwar
09-27-2003, 12:59 PM
The sad part is that we are STUCK with paul konerko.No one is going to want a very expensive head case that goes into prolonged slumps that can last for months,not to mention the fact that at 50 i can probably beat him in a footrace.

RichH55
09-27-2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
Reasonably, I think we saw that this team went or didn't go with Konerko. Now, did you guys see this article or letter today to the Trib? It blamed Koch and Konerko. Those two are apples and oranges. Konerko had a terrible first half, yes. Koch had just as bad of one, and NO second half. Konerko put up BIG numbers in teh 2nd half. And, we won.

I'm not averse to listening to options, but who plays first if we get rid of Konerko? Daubach? Sorry guys, Thomas is terrible and (although they won't get rid of him), I think we can't win with him. At least, he'll need a new manager.

You can see that JM really wasn't that huge of a Thomas fan when it outright said that Carlos Lee, who has arrived, was the real MVP. Dump Thomas and then think about the other options, which may or may not be dealing Konerko. I'd keep him just because he can be very dangerous and his value is still very very low. You don't trade guys at that value, when you know their stats will improve the next year, unequivocally.


So to summarize your position on Trading Konerko to LA......

Get rid of Thomas

To Summarize your position on just about anything :
Get rid of Thomas......super

Home schooling for my kids...no doubt about it

RichH55
09-28-2003, 02:59 AM
Talked to a pretty knowledgeable O's fan today.

Basically his thinking is that the O's will make a big push for Vlad and will definately be adding some good payroll (Belle comes off the books, no Surhoff or Conine)....but he also said they have no 1B.

I offered him Konerko; He accepted....Problem solved:)

Though honestly, as much as an albatross as I think Konerko is(mainly due to his contract)...I think there are takers out there for him.

Terrible 1st Half notwithstanding, he is a good ballplayer. Not worth his money, but not terrible. I know the economics of baseball has changed, but is Konerko worse than Tino Martinez was? And he's younger to boot. I think Paulie can be moved....might very well be wishful thinking, but I think I am right here.

I think we might be in a little can't see the forest from the trees situation here. We are resigned to a lower end payroll and Paulie is definately a cost effective player, coupled with all the antectodtal(sic) evidence being him grounding into a double play at the worst posible times and he gets downgraded and downgraded, and with little else to talk about, that gets built up into Konerko being worthless where there are more than a few ballclubs he could help.

Teams that spend alot of money, don't always do it wisely, and if the Sox aren't looking for a huge return, then Paulie could be pretty tempting


If Paulie was making say 5 million, I don't think we would necessarily think he was as worthless as we do....Of course the fact that he is making as much as he is, is very very relevant, but for teams that don't have the restraints with do, then Konerko's terrible value in terms of contract might tend to be glossed over


There's your optimist sentiment for the day

StepsInSC
09-28-2003, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
You can see that JM really wasn't that huge of a Thomas fan when it outright said that Carlos Lee, who has arrived, was the real MVP. Dump Thomas and then think about the other options

The fact that GHANDI liked Lee over Thomas is supposed to HELP your argument AGAINST Thomas??? I don't follow....

MRKARNO
09-28-2003, 11:21 AM
You gotta believe that GMs look at previous year's numbers when evaluatuing people they want to trade for. Konerko's previous numbers point to 2003 being a fluke

gosox41
09-29-2003, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I've said this many times, so my apologies to anyone who is tired of hearing it.

We ought to PAY for the privilege of dumping Paul Konerko and his albatross salary. Every million we save is a million we can spend on something that helps us win, signing Colon for example.

"A penny saved is a penny earned."
--Ben Franklin

"A million saved is a million earned."
--PHG


:gulp:

I agree. No one is going to trade for PK unless the Sox take on a salary of an equally bad player in return.

Too bad the team wasn't reading the posts here last November when me and a few others blasted the Konerko signing due to the fact that he is at his best statistically average offensivel for a first baseman.

Bob

RichH55
09-29-2003, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I agree. No one is going to trade for PK unless the Sox take on a salary of an equally bad player in return.

Too bad the team wasn't reading the posts here last November when me and a few others blasted the Konerko signing due to the fact that he is at his best statistically average offensivel for a first baseman.

Bob


I respectfully disagree. Well I share your thoughts on Konerko's deal being detrimental to the Club, and it won't be easy to move. I still say it can be moved, and not for a huge salary either.

Hundley was moved....Tino Martinez got big dollars even though he was much older than PK

Granted Hundley was moved for big contracts and Tino was a FA when money was moving more freely.....but PK is both younger and better than both those players as well.

The interest in PK earlier(rumored in a Ponson deal) also makes me think that league wide opinion of him isnt as down as this message board. The O's don't have a 1B, the Dodgers don't either....and the Dodgers were paying about half of PK for Fred Mcgriff, so that shows they are hurting at 1B, and Mcgriff isnt even there anymore

PK was brutal in the 1st half, but he has put up other good years, so there will be a belief that the 1st half this year was a fluke

In no way am I saying "PK for great prospects", but I think he can be moved. Teams with money to spend will spend that money....See Bell and the Phillies, and I bet the O's spend alot of money in the offseason as well, and SD is looking to take on people too

In SD they were talking about Jason Kendall who is a worse player and worse contract than Paulie, perhaps that just speaks to the crappiness of catching league round, but I think there is more than a reasonable doubt regarding Paulie being unmoveable

LASOXFAN
09-29-2003, 01:08 AM
Dump Konerko and we still need a 1B, because Frank Thomas would instantly become the WEAKEST 1B not only in the AL but in all of MLB. Let's expand that to include any Japanese, South American and Pan-Asian leagues as well. I stop short of including local Babe Ruth leagues in the Will County area, for I think he might be able to dazzle there...but only for a bit.

Brian26
09-29-2003, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
[B]Talked to a pretty knowledgeable O's fan today.

Basically his thinking is that the O's will make a big push for Vlad and will definately be adding some good payroll (Belle comes off the books, no Surhoff or Conine)....but he also said they have no 1B.

I offered him Konerko; He accepted....Problem solved [B]

Can we get Mora for Konerko? I'd take that in a second.

jabrch
09-29-2003, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
I respectfully disagree. Well I share your thoughts on Konerko's deal being detrimental to the Club, and it won't be easy to move. I still say it can be moved, and not for a huge salary either.

Hundley was moved....Tino Martinez got big dollars even though he was much older than PK

Granted Hundley was moved for big contracts and Tino was a FA when money was moving more freely.....but PK is both younger and better than both those players as well.

The interest in PK earlier(rumored in a Ponson deal) also makes me think that league wide opinion of him isnt as down as this message board. The O's don't have a 1B, the Dodgers don't either....and the Dodgers were paying about half of PK for Fred Mcgriff, so that shows they are hurting at 1B, and Mcgriff isnt even there anymore

PK was brutal in the 1st half, but he has put up other good years, so there will be a belief that the 1st half this year was a fluke

In no way am I saying "PK for great prospects", but I think he can be moved. Teams with money to spend will spend that money....See Bell and the Phillies, and I bet the O's spend alot of money in the offseason as well, and SD is looking to take on people too

In SD they were talking about Jason Kendall who is a worse player and worse contract than Paulie, perhaps that just speaks to the crappiness of catching league round, but I think there is more than a reasonable doubt regarding Paulie being unmoveable

Hundley was moved for EQUAL salaries. Kendall was going to be sent to SD as part of a Brian Giles deal. The Ponson thing was nothing more than Rumor....look what Baltimore took for Ponson? A totally different type of deal. Geez, if Baltimore wants Konerko they can have him for almost free - not having to give up a solid SP at the trade deadline. These aren't comparable, in any case, to moving Konerko. I wish you were right Rich - and we could easily move PK to someone. I just don't believe that will happen in the current baseball economy we are in.

RichH55
09-29-2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
Hundley was moved for EQUAL salaries. Kendall was going to be sent to SD as part of a Brian Giles deal. The Ponson thing was nothing more than Rumor....look what Baltimore took for Ponson? A totally different type of deal. Geez, if Baltimore wants Konerko they can have him for almost free - not having to give up a solid SP at the trade deadline. These aren't comparable, in any case, to moving Konerko. I wish you were right Rich - and we could easily move PK to someone. I just don't believe that will happen in the current baseball economy we are in.

SD is still interested in Kendall even post Giles trade