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Viva Magglio
09-25-2003, 02:49 PM
Here is an interesting article on our fans' reaction to our demise coupled with the Cubs' success.

For those of you Tribune-registered (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0309250312sep25.story)

PaleHoseGeorge
09-25-2003, 02:58 PM
I was contacted via email to contribute to this article, but the reporter didn't return my return call until it was too late. Too bad... the Cubune still misses the central point about Sox Fans that Ratto managed to nail in his piece published in the SF Chronicle earlier this week. I can't say I'm surprised.

cheeses_h_rice
09-25-2003, 02:59 PM
"The Cubs can't lose enough to make me happy," said Bernard Bahrmasel, 40, another Sox fan from the North Side. "It seems like they have a sense of entitlement."

Mr. Bahrmasel is a longtime acquaintance of mine; I had NO idea he even cared about baseball, let alone the Sox.

Good on ya, Bernie!

:gulp:

ewokpelts
09-25-2003, 06:23 PM
Hey George,
What did the Tribune writer ask you? What answers did you have? And, what else did you plan to tell him?
Gene

PaleHoseGeorge
09-25-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
Hey George,
What did the Tribune writer ask you? What answers did you have? And, what else did you plan to tell him?
Gene

He emailed me with a cellphone number to reply to. I did, and left a voicemail, but never got a return call. So I emailed him, and he replies it's too late.

I sent him my own responses anyway.

:)

SouthBendSox
09-25-2003, 08:01 PM
I can't trust the Cubbune anymore

Lip Man 1
09-25-2003, 09:17 PM
George:

And what were those responses?

Lip

PaleHoseGeorge
09-25-2003, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
George:

And what were those responses?

Lip

Okay, twist my arm. :smile:

Thanks for your interest. I enjoyed your report, though I must admit I feel a bit empty because I think the essential point was still missed. You can only report what those you interview offer to quote, so please understand I hold you and [name witheld] blameless. Asked my opinion, here's what I would have said.

For the true Sox Fans (not Cubs haters), nothing compares to a Sox victory. That's where we derive true joy. However the Sox don't win nearly often enough. So in a pinch, a Cubs loss will do. To a Sox Fan's way of thinking, anyone who calls their team "lovable losers" deserves exactly what they get. That's the only reason we derive satisfaction from the Cubs losing. When they lose, everything is right in the universe--for truly they deserved it.

Winning is the point. That's why no Sox Fan ever called their team "lovable losers." It's also why we frown on people throwing back home run balls. There is nothing cute about throwing back an opponent's home run ball--unless of course the ball was jokingly aimed at the offending pitcher's head. Sox Fans don't think losing is cute, and there is nothing cute about serving up home run balls.

Sox Fans are a minority in Chicago. Most of us feel hopelessly disenfranchised by the mainstream media in this town. Asking us questions about the Cubs' success only underscores how ignored we truly feel. It's as though we exist only to be the counterbalance to the giddy nonsense that passes for baseball during that summer-long Mardi Gras the Tribune holds at Clark & Addison every year. Your Cubs-centric questions to Sox fans are the problem, not the solution. That's disappointing...

Here are some ideas. First, read this column by Ray Ratto published earlier this week in the San Francisco Chronicle
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/09/19/SPGM81QBRR1.DTL

This is the essential point he makes about Sox Fans that to my knowledge I've never read (or heard) anywhere in the Chicago or national media. (I'm guessing this is because the Chicago media is too busy fawning over the Cubs, while the national media is too busy fawning over the Red Sox.)

"Give me a White Sox fan any day. There's a team that has hosed its fans more completely than nearly any other, and that includes two terms under the best and most fan-friendly owner in history, Bill Veeck.

"Do you hear them whining endlessly about how God wants them to suffer? Do they bore you with tales of Shoeless Joe Jackson, or Luke Appling, or Wild Bill Dietrich, and how each one has cursed them from beyond the grave? Do they go on and on about Arnold Rothstein and Charlie Comiskey and Chick Gandil and how they robbed their great grandfather of a two-day bender back in '19?

"Of course not. They say, "The Sox? They stink. Another beer over here, Hap.'' They don't long-suffer, and if they do, they don't do it loud enough for the rest of the neighborhood to hear. And they've known circles of hell you've never even driven through on your way to the company picnic."

I would further suggest you read White Sox Interactive's "Welcome Sox Fans" manifesto. I wrote it over six years ago, and it's the essential point that drives the editorial content that has made WSI the largest and most successful independent Sox Fans website on the internet. I believe Ratto's readers came closer to hearing this essential point about Sox Fans than did the Chicago Tribune's.

http://whitesoxinteractive.com/Columnists/Bova/Welcome.htm

Presumably you and others at the Tribune will need more Sox Fan's perspective in the future. I hope you'll consider contacting me again when such circumstances warrant it.

Thanks again, and Go Sox!

flo-B-flo
09-25-2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Okay, twist my arm. :smile:

Thanks for your interest. I enjoyed your report, though I must admit I feel a bit empty because I think the essential point was still missed. You can only report what those you interview offer to quote, so please understand I hold you and [name witheld] blameless. Asked my opinion, here's what I would have said.

For the true Sox Fans (not Cubs haters), nothing compares to a Sox victory. That's where we derive true joy. However the Sox don't win nearly often enough. So in a pinch, a Cubs loss will do. To a Sox Fan's way of thinking, anyone who calls their team "lovable losers" deserves exactly what they get. That's the only reason we derive satisfaction from the Cubs losing. When they lose, everything is right in the universe--for truly they deserved it.

Winning is the point. That's why no Sox Fan ever called their team "lovable losers." It's also why we frown on people throwing back home run balls. There is nothing cute about throwing back an opponent's home run ball--unless of course the ball was jokingly aimed at the offending pitcher's head. Sox Fans don't think losing is cute, and there is nothing cute about serving up home run balls.

Sox Fans are a minority in Chicago. Most of us feel hopelessly disenfranchised by the mainstream media in this town. Asking us questions about the Cubs' success only underscores how ignored we truly feel. It's as though we exist only to be the counterbalance to the giddy nonsense that passes for baseball during that summer-long Mardi Gras the Tribune holds at Clark & Addison every year. Your Cubs-centric questions to Sox fans are the problem, not the solution. That's disappointing...

Here are some ideas. First, read this column by Ray Ratto published earlier this week in the San Francisco Chronicle
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/09/19/SPGM81QBRR1.DTL

This is the essential point he makes about Sox Fans that to my knowledge I've never read (or heard) anywhere in the Chicago or national media. (I'm guessing this is because the Chicago media is too busy fawning over the Cubs, while the national media is too busy fawning over the Red Sox.)

"Give me a White Sox fan any day. There's a team that has hosed its fans more completely than nearly any other, and that includes two terms under the best and most fan-friendly owner in history, Bill Veeck.

"Do you hear them whining endlessly about how God wants them to suffer? Do they bore you with tales of Shoeless Joe Jackson, or Luke Appling, or Wild Bill Dietrich, and how each one has cursed them from beyond the grave? Do they go on and on about Arnold Rothstein and Charlie Comiskey and Chick Gandil and how they robbed their great grandfather of a two-day bender back in '19?

"Of course not. They say, "The Sox? They stink. Another beer over here, Hap.'' They don't long-suffer, and if they do, they don't do it loud enough for the rest of the neighborhood to hear. And they've known circles of hell you've never even driven through on your way to the company picnic."

I would further suggest you read White Sox Interactive's "Welcome Sox Fans" manifesto. I wrote it over six years ago, and it's the essential point that drives the editorial content that has made WSI the largest and most successful independent Sox Fans website on the internet. I believe Ratto's readers came closer to hearing this essential point about Sox Fans than did the Chicago Tribune's.

http://whitesoxinteractive.com/Columnists/Bova/Welcome.htm

Presumably you and others at the Tribune will need more Sox Fan's perspective in the future. I hope you'll consider contacting me again when such circumstances warrant it.

Thanks again, and Go Sox! How did the Frisco writer FEEL us all the way out there? He hit on several themes I've thought about a lot for a long time. I e-mailed my thamks to him. ***k the crumbs.