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View Full Version : sox "heart" needs pacemaker?


idseer
09-23-2003, 10:12 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-ssep231.html

"I don't want to give up money, have them go somewhere else and then I'm stuck here with a team that has no chance to win,'' he said .

he actually said he'd rather play backup somewhere else than stay here if the team changes too many players.

must be very disappointing to those who always felt he was the team spirit through and through.

sure, everyone wants to play for a winner, but i'm glad not everyone threatens to leave when it doesn't happen. wasn't this a perfect opportunity to keep his mouth shut about this? "hey chicago! i know i've been your heart and soul with this team but if you're not good enough i'm outta here!"

mandmandm
09-23-2003, 10:22 AM
I saw it differently. He has all the money he has ever will need. He is not getting any younger and wants a chance to win, not mentor rookies.

idseer
09-23-2003, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by mandmandm
I saw it differently. He has all the money he has ever will need. He is not getting any younger and wants a chance to win, not mentor rookies.

read the quote again. the "i' don't want to give up money" part.

looks to me like ... ok i'll play for you losers if i get my $5 mil again.

otherwise he'd say " i don't want to stay if the team isn't brought back or intends to go with youth."

Dadawg_77
09-23-2003, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by idseer
read the quote again. the "i' don't want to give up money" part.

looks to me like ... ok i'll play for you losers if i get my $5 mil again.

otherwise he'd say " i don't want to stay if the team isn't brought back or intends to go with youth."

No he didn't, he said, he is willing to sacrifice (pay cut) in order to have a winning team. He doesn't want his sacrifice for the team thrown back in his face by Sox not using it to take a shot at winning.

idseer
09-23-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
No he didn't, he said, he is willing to sacrifice (pay cut) in order to have a winning team. He doesn't want his sacrifice for the team thrown back in his face by Sox not using it to take a shot at winning.

then you think he'll get his $5 mil for another team as a backup? i don't think so.

idseer
09-23-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by idseer
then you think he'll get his $5 mil for another team as a backup? i don't think so. i don't see a sacrifice here. he's not going to get that kind of money anyway. he simply wants to try to guarantee he plays for a contender.


hmmmm i screw up this edit. but you get the idea anyway. :smile:

Dadawg_77
09-23-2003, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by idseer
then you think he'll get his $5 mil for another team as a backup? i don't think so.

You are completely taking that comment out of context. Most good teams who has a shot at it next year already have someone at SS. Thus for Jose to be on a winner, he will need to become a backup.

idseer
09-23-2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
You are completely taking that comment out of context. Most good teams who has a shot at it next year already have someone at SS. Thus for Jose to be on a winner, he will need to become a backup.

out of context?

it's pretty simple to me. he's saying ... if we can't compete next year i want out of here.

maybe that attitude is ok today by most people, but it think it stinks.

RichH55
09-23-2003, 12:42 PM
At least you get something to bitch about IDseer, so its a banner day for you

idseer
09-23-2003, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
At least you get something to bitch about IDseer, so its a banner day for you

i don't think that was necessary rich. you and i didn't agree on another thread. let it go.

RichH55
09-23-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by idseer
i don't think that was necessary rich. you and i didn't agree on another thread. let it go.


Could have been any number of people I would have written that to....really the idea is that you took Jose's quote out of context. He basically said he wants to win and he wants to be back here, and he hopes that is what is in the cards. I fail to see what is wrong with that, so to me it just seems like bitching to bitch....sorry if you thought it was personal

Lip Man 1
09-23-2003, 01:36 PM
Gang:

All of you are forgetting one thing about Valentin.

He already gave up money to play for the Sox!

Four years ago the Orioles offered more money to him to join their club. He refused taking less to stay in Chicago because he wanted to win.

As far as I'm concerned he's made his sacrifice and is entitled to do anything he damn well pleases.

Lip

NewyorkSoxFan
09-23-2003, 02:47 PM
How about making Jose a backup here and bringing in Tejada? That way he wins and we dont' have to watch a .230 hitter swing for the fences on one side, and and bounce out to the pitcher on the other.


NYSF

Iwritecode
09-23-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by idseer
out of context?

it's pretty simple to me. he's saying ... if we can't compete next year i want out of here.

maybe that attitude is ok today by most people, but it think it stinks.

What exactly is wrong with it? Jose is basically saying "I'm going to take less money so you guys (management) can use it to go out and get us some talent to win this thing. If you guys just piss it away, then I don't want to be a part of it."

Jose wants to play for the Sox and he wants them to do everything possible to win. What's wrong with that?

Would you rather him say, I want the money I deserve and I don't care if it means the difference in keeping a guy like Colon or not...?

KingXerxes
09-23-2003, 03:29 PM
A perfect response (I suppose) would have been "All I want is to be back here next year, with this team intact so we can win it all. I honestly believe we're right on the doorstep."

He was too honest and too long. The longer an explanation goes the more tripped up you get by it. That is why all these guys ever do (at least the smart ones) is to offer up cliches.

jabrch
09-23-2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
As far as I'm concerned he's made his sacrifice and is entitled to do anything he damn well pleases.

Lip

You got it Lip...and at the same time, we paid him very well to play baseball. If he wants to do what he pleases for 5MM, we have every right to tell him to do it elsewhere. Not many teams will pay 5mm to an old SS who can't hit over .240. He will have a hard time finding that $. Now he can likely find a fringe contender (Florida, Montreal, Philly, Seattle?, Anaheim, etc.) willing to pay him 2-3MM....or he can stay at another fringe contender (the Sox) and make that... His call.

RichH55
09-23-2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
You got it Lip...and at the same time, we paid him very well to play baseball. If he wants to do what he pleases for 5MM, we have every right to tell him to do it elsewhere. Not many teams will pay 5mm to an old SS who can't hit over .240. He will have a hard time finding that $. Now he can likely find a fringe contender (Florida, Montreal, Philly, Seattle?, Anaheim, etc.) willing to pay him 2-3MM....or he can stay at another fringe contender (the Sox) and make that... His call.

He took less money to be here last time(5 million)...this time he is also offering to take less money...probably like 2 million would be my guess, and all he wants to do is make sure the ballclub is devoted to winning........where is the problem??!?

Hell even Lip is complementing the guy....and well I might be a dyed in the wool optimist....Lip doesnt pass that out like candy

hose
09-23-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Gang:

All of you are forgetting one thing about Valentin.

He already gave up money to play for the Sox!

Four years ago the Orioles offered more money to him to join their club. He refused taking less to stay in Chicago because he wanted to win.

As far as I'm concerned he's made his sacrifice and is entitled to do anything he damn well pleases.

Lip



Right on Lip.

For pete's sake Jose has taken less money to stay with the Sox in the past and is willing to work out a deal with KW that is in the Sox favor as long as the club is commited to winning. What more can you ask for?

idseer
09-23-2003, 06:27 PM
ok, ok.

i surrender.

your perspectives are obviously different than mine.
you look at what he did a couple years ago which was to supposedly sacrifice some money to stay.
i was looking at it solely from the point of view of a guy on your team saying if the team wasn't going to be good enough, he wanted out. that's what it looked like to me.
i could never imagine fox, aparicio, minoso, peters, melton, orta, lemon, baines, dotson, fisk, guillen, ventura or even thomas saying such a thing.

if you feel jose has "earned" the right to say it, then i won't argue about it.

hose
09-23-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by idseer
ok, ok.

i surrender.

your perspectives are obviously different than mine.
you look at what he did a couple years ago which was to supposedly sacrifice some money to stay.
i was looking at it solely from the point of view of a guy on your team saying if the team wasn't going to be good enough, he wanted out. that's what it looked like to me.
i could never imagine fox, aparicio, minoso, peters, melton, orta, lemon, baines, dotson, fisk, guillen, ventura or even thomas saying such a thing.

if you feel jose has "earned" the right to say it, then i won't argue about it.


I read it as Jose is serious about wanting to win and doesn't want to hang around if the Sox aren't.

idseer
09-23-2003, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by hose
I read it as Jose is serious about wanting to win and doesn't want to hang around if the Sox aren't.

my only reply to that would be ... what player ISN'T serious about winning a championship? i can imagine there are a few but i have to believe the large majority want that and the glory and extra money that comes with it. but they aren't all saying if they think the team won't compete this year they want out.
am i wrong?