PDA

View Full Version : Is Teddy Greenstein kidding?


ssang
09-21-2003, 11:54 PM
I found this RIDICULOUS little write-up on chicagosports.com. Teddy Greenstein and Paul Sullivan evaluate the final days of the season for both the Sox and Cubs. Here is what he said about the Sox for their final game of the season......

"Will this be Jerry Manuel's last stand? If so, the Sox should consider themselves lucky for having had such a wise and classy presence in their dugout for the last six years. Don't be surprised if Manuel wins a World Series before the Sox do."


Is he friggin' kidding??? Please tell me that this is gonna show up in teal in Monday's newspaper. Otherwise, Greenstein has instantly lost all credibility with me.

pudge
09-22-2003, 01:39 AM
Greenstein has been kissing his butt all year, so yes, he actually means it.

LASOXFAN
09-22-2003, 02:02 AM
I want Manuel gone, let me say that first.

But I think Teddy might be right.

The Sox are a group of selfish players who do what they want and disregard their coaches. Manuel doesn't call them out for it in the press or stage embarrassing exhibitions in the dugout. If he's confrontational, we don't know about it. I think we'd like to see a manager with more heart and fire, one who does call them out in the press and isn't afraid to show some fire in the dugout. But it's asking a lot for this team to do a 180 and buy in to that kind of managerial style next year (see the remarks made about Backman if you doubt me).

I know many of you will say he's just an idiot who made mistakes that cost us games, momentum, and ultimately the division. I will agree in part to this argument. But every manager is going to make moves that backfire over the course of 162 games. Not all of Jerry's did. Remember Grafs 3-run pinch hit homer? PK's homer off Everyday Eddie? But some of his bigger goofs just couldn't be overcome. I say starting Cotts in New York will go down as the worst, not just for its short term repercussions but mainly for the long term. It seeded even more doubt from the players and cost us HUGE mojo.

But focusing only on Manuel is just setting us up for another big fall I'm afraid. I hope I'm wrong. I hope a new manager will make Konerko a better hitter, Frank less selfish, Jose less of an easy out, Olivo a better curve ball hitter, Garland a more focused pitcher, restore Koch's fastball and teach Mags to stop hitting into DP's. But I'll settle for a winning attitude that doesn't tolerate anything less from his players.

ssang
09-22-2003, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
I want Manuel gone, let me say that first.

But I think Teddy might be right.

The Sox are a group of selfish players who do what they want and disregard their coaches. Manuel doesn't call them out for it in the press or stage embarrassing exhibitions in the dugout. If he's confrontational, we don't know about it. I think we'd like to see a manager with more heart and fire, one who does call them out in the press and isn't afraid to show some fire in the dugout. But it's asking a lot for this team to do a 180 and buy in to that kind of managerial style next year (see the remarks made about Backman if you doubt me).

I know many of you will say he's just an idiot who made mistakes that cost us games, momentum, and ultimately the division. I will agree in part to this argument. But every manager is going to make moves that backfire over the course of 162 games. Not all of Jerry's did. Remember Grafs 3-run pinch hit homer? PK's homer off Everyday Eddie? But some of his bigger goofs just couldn't be overcome. I say starting Cotts in New York will go down as the worst, not just for its short term repercussions but mainly for the long term. It seeded even more doubt from the players and cost us HUGE mojo.

But focusing only on Manuel is just setting us up for another big fall I'm afraid. I hope I'm wrong. I hope a new manager will make Konerko a better hitter, Frank less selfish, Jose less of an easy out, Olivo a better curve ball hitter, Garland a more focused pitcher, restore Koch's fastball and teach Mags to stop hitting into DP's. But I'll settle for a winning attitude that doesn't tolerate anything less from his players.

Very well put. You make some great points.

hold2dibber
09-22-2003, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
I want Manuel gone, let me say that first.

But I think Teddy might be right.

The Sox are a group of selfish players who do what they want and disregard their coaches. Manuel doesn't call them out for it in the press or stage embarrassing exhibitions in the dugout. If he's confrontational, we don't know about it. I think we'd like to see a manager with more heart and fire, one who does call them out in the press and isn't afraid to show some fire in the dugout. But it's asking a lot for this team to do a 180 and buy in to that kind of managerial style next year (see the remarks made about Backman if you doubt me).

I know many of you will say he's just an idiot who made mistakes that cost us games, momentum, and ultimately the division. I will agree in part to this argument. But every manager is going to make moves that backfire over the course of 162 games. Not all of Jerry's did. Remember Grafs 3-run pinch hit homer? PK's homer off Everyday Eddie? But some of his bigger goofs just couldn't be overcome. I say starting Cotts in New York will go down as the worst, not just for its short term repercussions but mainly for the long term. It seeded even more doubt from the players and cost us HUGE mojo.

But focusing only on Manuel is just setting us up for another big fall I'm afraid. I hope I'm wrong. I hope a new manager will make Konerko a better hitter, Frank less selfish, Jose less of an easy out, Olivo a better curve ball hitter, Garland a more focused pitcher, restore Koch's fastball and teach Mags to stop hitting into DP's. But I'll settle for a winning attitude that doesn't tolerate anything less from his players.

This is, in my mind, a chicken or egg type of proposition. Manuel has been here for six years. Most of the players on this team have spent the vast majority of their major league careers playing for him. Are they selfish/lazy/lacking heart and desire? You bet they are. And I attribute that to Manuel. He has never instilled any sense of urgency in these players ever. And I think it would be a mistake to get some guy who is a screamer just for the sake of having a guy who is a screamer. I don't want a Larry Bowa-type taking the job. You don't have to call guys out in the press or throw gatorade buckets on the field to instill intensity in your players. And this team, more than anything else, needs a manager who can instill some intensity, urgency and determination in this team, because the talent is certainly there.

Dan H
09-22-2003, 09:59 AM
I seriously doubt that Manuel will be a big winner anywhere else if given the chance, but this nonsense is not all his fault. The players have to take responsibility for this disappointment as well. If the Sox had some better hitting at the start of the year, they might still be in it. It wasn't Manuel's fault Konerko couldn't hit .200.

Tne media is on Manuel's side for the most part. No one doubts Manuel is a decent guy. It's his managerial ability that is at issue. Tne media sometimes confuses these issues.

Simple fact is the team has to make some serious moves in the offseason, starting with the manager. Let's hope the Sox don't hire another rookie.

idseer
09-22-2003, 10:05 AM
i would be amazed if jm ever got a major league managing job again.

JRIG
09-22-2003, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by idseer
i would be amazed if jm ever got a major league managing job again.

He'll probably hook on somewhere. Media outlets will praise the move, citing his one (1) division championship and the fact that it's always good to see one of the "nice guys" in baseball being rewarded.

ChiSoxBobette
09-23-2003, 06:35 AM
Originally posted by ssang
I found this RIDICULOUS little write-up on chicagosports.com. Teddy Greenstein and Paul Sullivan evaluate the final days of the season for both the Sox and Cubs. Here is what he said about the Sox for their final game of the season......

"Will this be Jerry Manuel's last stand? If so, the Sox should consider themselves lucky for having had such a wise and classy presence in their dugout for the last six years. Don't be surprised if Manuel wins a World Series before the Sox do."


Is he friggin' kidding??? Please tell me that this is gonna show up in teal in Monday's newspaper. Otherwise, Greenstein has instantly lost all credibility with me.

Someone should tell both those guys Manuel has already won a world series before the White Sox have , was'nt Manuel a bench coach for the Marlins when trhey won the World Series vs the Indians. Is'nt that why we brought him here because he had that expirence under , Iforget the managers name for the marlins that year but he was an x- Sox coach under LaRussa.

chuckn98229
09-23-2003, 08:10 AM
The manager sets the tone and should create an environment to produce based on the personalities within his team. JM has not been successful in doing this. This team - for the most part - has not shown any desire to play up to their potential - which professionals should do regardless of who is leading them. And I am sure none of them gives a crap about how disappointed we (the fans) are with their performance. Rarely, has so little been done with so much.

jeremyb1
09-23-2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
This is, in my mind, a chicken or egg type of proposition. Manuel has been here for six years. Most of the players on this team have spent the vast majority of their major league careers playing for him. Are they selfish/lazy/lacking heart and desire? You bet they are. And I attribute that to Manuel. He has never instilled any sense of urgency in these players ever. And I think it would be a mistake to get some guy who is a screamer just for the sake of having a guy who is a screamer. I don't want a Larry Bowa-type taking the job. You don't have to call guys out in the press or throw gatorade buckets on the field to instill intensity in your players. And this team, more than anything else, needs a manager who can instill some intensity, urgency and determination in this team, because the talent is certainly there.

I don't know. Manuel had the club playing with pretty high intensity considering the lack of talent in 99. We had so much unproven young talent that season that a lot of people would've predicted us to lose 100 games. Manuel got those young guys to play really hard. Then in '00, we had one of the scrappiest, hardest playing teams in all of baseball. That was our trademark and we rode it to 95 wins. I don't know how you can say our guys never played with intensity and a lack of urgency under Manuel.

joecrede
09-23-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by idseer
i would be amazed if jm ever got a major league managing job again.

I think Manuel will end up back with Felipe Alou in San Francisco and will at least be a candidate to replace him once Alou retires.

longshot7
09-23-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by ssang
Don't be surprised if Manuel wins a World Series before the Sox do."


Yeah, as a bench coach... NOT as a manager.

mike squires
09-23-2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by ChiSoxBob
Someone should tell both those guys Manuel has already won a world series before the White Sox have , was'nt Manuel a bench coach for the Marlins when trhey won the World Series vs the Indians. Is'nt that why we brought him here because he had that expirence under , Iforget the managers name for the marlins that year but he was an x- Sox coach under LaRussa.

It was Jim Leyland who was one of the big reasons the Marlins won it that year...not Manuel. I respect the guy for leaving the game when he did but geez he would be a great fit for any team, epecially the Sox!