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LASOXFAN
09-21-2003, 11:39 PM
Does anyone else question the philosophy of the organization that has built our minor league system (guys like KW)?

For the last few years the Sox minor league pitching has been ranked among the best, but what do we have to show for it? Certainly no rookie sensations like Franky Rodriguez, John Lackey or Dontrell Willis who come to the bigs and dazzle, even if only for awhile.

What's worse is that we seem drawn to power hitters and blind to versatile players with all around skills, particularly defense. I feel like the sudden improvement in defense this year is just a footnote in the story of this team's success when it should be a major consideration.

Power, power, power. It's like crack to the Sox. They can't say no.

RichH55
09-22-2003, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
Does anyone else question the philosophy of the organization that has built our minor league system (guys like KW)?

For the last few years the Sox minor league pitching has been ranked among the best, but what do we have to show for it? Certainly no rookie sensations like Franky Rodriguez, John Lackey or Dontrell Willis who come to the bigs and dazzle, even if only for awhile.

What's worse is that we seem drawn to power hitters and blind to versatile players with all around skills, particularly defense. I feel like the sudden improvement in defense this year is just a footnote in the story of this team's success when it should be a major consideration.

Power, power, power. It's like crack to the Sox. They can't say no.

Garland and Buerhle...Biddle in Montreal, Kip Wells in Pitt. Royce Ring next year(in the bullpen)

Versatile Players with No Power -> Willie Harris
Little Power, Great D (At least a great arm where you need one) --> Olivo

Great D, should hit for average(lets hope) -> Crede

No power, no average, I guess not all the versatile --> Miles

No Power --> Aaron Rowand

Reed ? Not sure..what is the story on him

Tim Hummell could be an OBP machine and has played from 2B to SS to 3B

RichH55
09-22-2003, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
Does anyone else question the philosophy of the organization that has built our minor league system (guys like KW)?

For the last few years the Sox minor league pitching has been ranked among the best, but what do we have to show for it? Certainly no rookie sensations like Franky Rodriguez, John Lackey or Dontrell Willis who come to the bigs and dazzle, even if only for awhile.

What's worse is that we seem drawn to power hitters and blind to versatile players with all around skills, particularly defense. I feel like the sudden improvement in defense this year is just a footnote in the story of this team's success when it should be a major consideration.

Power, power, power. It's like crack to the Sox. They can't say no.

BTW John Lackey counts as a "Rookie Sensation"?

shane
09-22-2003, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
Does anyone else question the philosophy of the organization that has built our minor league system (guys like KW)?

For the last few years the Sox minor league pitching has been ranked among the best, but what do we have to show for it? Certainly no rookie sensations like Franky Rodriguez, John Lackey or Dontrell Willis who come to the bigs and dazzle, even if only for awhile.

What's worse is that we seem drawn to power hitters and blind to versatile players with all around skills, particularly defense. I feel like the sudden improvement in defense this year is just a footnote in the story of this team's success when it should be a major consideration.

Power, power, power. It's like crack to the Sox. They can't say no.

Personally, I think Kip Wells would have dazzled for Pittsburgh this year if the offense were there. He only got roughed up a couple of times and had quite a few 2-3 run losses. Don't know how other Sox fans feel about him, but I think he's an outstanding pitcher. Buerhle is another one. He dazzled last year. Dontrell may have the same record and ERA next season that Buerhle had this season. Ross Gload is hitting real good for Charlotte and he's the 1st baseman. Why didn't this kid come up for a shot at the game?

RichH55
09-22-2003, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by shane
Personally, I think Kip Wells would have dazzled for Pittsburgh this year if the offense were there. He only got roughed up a couple of times and had quite a few 2-3 run losses. Don't know how other Sox fans feel about him, but I think he's an outstanding pitcher. Buerhle is another one. He dazzled last year. Dontrell may have the same record and ERA next season that Buerhle had this season. Ross Gload is hitting real good for Charlotte and he's the 1st baseman. Why didn't this kid come up for a shot at the game?

I've always liked Kip Wells, but I think the change in scenery definately helped him....but we produce no good pitchers...remember?

kermittheefrog
09-22-2003, 01:30 AM
Garland can pitch. Buehrle would have been a "rookie sensation" if he had pitched 2 or 3 fewer innings in 2000. Kip Wells is a good pitcher. Really our young pitching has turned out about as well as you could expect.

Wells, Garland and Rauch were all big names who were at the top of prospect list. 2/3 have panned out and the third got injured. Buehrle seemingly emereged from no where to be a near ace. I think Wright and Ginter both have a future in major league bullpens. Guerrier was swapped for an ace reliever. Realistically the Sox have done well and would have gotten a lot more out of their crop of young pitching if they had just kept Kip Wells.

LASOXFAN
09-22-2003, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
BTW John Lackey counts as a "Rookie Sensation"?

I'd say winning game 7 of the world series qualifies. You?

LASOXFAN
09-22-2003, 02:11 AM
Kip Wells? Garland? Biddle?

I'll give you Buehrle, but that was a diamond in the rough (a mighty fine one at that).

And Rocky only shined when he found a role as closer. He was inconsistent with the Sox although at times solid. I credit Montreal for his success.

Show me some impact pitchers. Royce Ring hasn't done anything yet.

RichH55
09-22-2003, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
I'd say winning game 7 of the world series qualifies. You?


So with both him and K-rod they don't have to really prove anything, just have some nice playoff games? Well I hardly think that would be the fault of the minor league system

Dadawg_77
09-22-2003, 09:43 AM
While the Sox haven't been the A's, thier minor league grown pitching has helped the team with several still in the minors who may help the team.

shane
09-22-2003, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
Kip Wells? Garland? Biddle?

I'll give you Buehrle, but that was a diamond in the rough (a mighty fine one at that).

And Rocky only shined when he found a role as closer. He was inconsistent with the Sox although at times solid. I credit Montreal for his success.

Show me some impact pitchers. Royce Ring hasn't done anything yet.

What don't you like about Wells? The minor league system produced a sound pitcher for us. The fact that these guys go to other places and pitch better tells me it isn't the farm/scouts that have a problem. Garland still needs some polishing, but if you look at his game log, he really hasn't done bad at all. If anything, he was probably just rushed to the show a tad prematurely. I think he'll turn out fine. I think you could easily find 5 wins that he should have had, but got blown or no offense at all showed up, this season. That ERA and September performance isn't too good though. He's awfully young, so let's hang onto him and see what happens in the next couple of seasons.

Another note on Wells, he started the month of September with an ERA of 3.66 and currently sits at 3.38 (Against FLA, ATL and PHI no less!). He was sent to a team that had a firesale and is in the beginning phase of rebuilding. I think our scouts produced a good one with Wells.

Lackey, I just don't see it. He's young too, but I don't see anything to support him being better than Garland and Wells. I'm with you on game 7 though! He pitched a great game.

doublem23
09-22-2003, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
Kip Wells? Garland? Biddle?

I'll give you Buehrle, but that was a diamond in the rough (a mighty fine one at that).

And Rocky only shined when he found a role as closer. He was inconsistent with the Sox although at times solid. I credit Montreal for his success.

Show me some impact pitchers. Royce Ring hasn't done anything yet.

I'd take all three of those over Lackey and K-Rod.

LASOXFAN
09-22-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
So with both him and K-rod they don't have to really prove anything, just have some nice playoff games? Well I hardly think that would be the fault of the minor league system

I'm afraid you lost me. Your point was they weren't rookie sensations, my point is that they were.

LASOXFAN
09-22-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
I'd take all three of those over Lackey and K-Rod.

pass the crack when you're finished

RichH55
09-22-2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
I'm afraid you lost me. Your point was they weren't rookie sensations, my point is that they were.


Lackey...the only reason he's a rookie sensation is due to Game 7, K-rod only reason he was a "Sensation" in the sense of the word you are using is playoffs.....Sox don't make the playoffs

So assuming the basis for being a Rookie Sensation is some great playoff performance instead of the regular season, which I don't see how you can attribute to the White Sox minor leaguers?


Is it just hype you want?

RichH55
09-22-2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
pass the crack when you're finished

Lackey with the 4.85 ERA? Or maybe the 1.45 WHIP sealed the deal?

gosox41
09-22-2003, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
I've always liked Kip Wells, but I think the change in scenery definately helped him....but we produce no good pitchers...remember?


Getting rid of Nardi and keeping Wells here would have helped him too.

Bob

LASOXFAN
09-22-2003, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Lackey with the 4.85 ERA? Or maybe the 1.45 WHIP sealed the deal?

So their performance down the playoff stretch last year does not qualify as sensational? Or enough to make Rodriguez or Lackey qualify as "rookie sensations"?

You're tough to please my friend. Maybe you can enlighten me with some examples of your own.

RichH55
09-23-2003, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
So their performance down the playoff stretch last year does not qualify as sensational? Or enough to make Rodriguez or Lackey qualify as "rookie sensations"?

You're tough to please my friend. Maybe you can enlighten me with some examples of your own.


So you just want a guy who is hyped up? Produces for a small amount of time and then fades? Lackey has been an average pitcher at best this year, and I'm being nice...and Krod is a great bullpen guy, not a closer, not a starter.

If you want to classify them as rookie sensations...go ahead, as I certainly never doubted that Krod qualified....but why? Don't you want a pitcher who produces year in year out that you can count on rather than a year of Cal Eldred and then back to reality?

LASOXFAN
09-23-2003, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
So you just want a guy who is hyped up? Produces for a small amount of time and then fades? Lackey has been an average pitcher at best this year, and I'm being nice...and Krod is a great bullpen guy, not a closer, not a starter.

If you want to classify them as rookie sensations...go ahead, as I certainly never doubted that Krod qualified....but why? Don't you want a pitcher who produces year in year out that you can count on rather than a year of Cal Eldred and then back to reality?

I'm starting to sound like an Angels fan which has me freaked out a bit. But I still say Lackey's run during the post season last year was remarkable. That was no fluke. His ERA is up this year because he's gotten hammered in some games while he's been tough in others. He's also had a terrible team playing behind him, one riddled with injuries. And to answer your question, Yes! I would most definitely like to see him on the Sox. Especially after I watched Colon, Garland and Loiza take the gas in big games. Lackey has stones, something our team doesn't. He won game 7 of the world series, staring down Barry Bonds. What did our guys do? Turned around and flipped up their skirts.

RichH55
09-24-2003, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
I'm starting to sound like an Angels fan which has me freaked out a bit. But I still say Lackey's run during the post season last year was remarkable. That was no fluke. His ERA is up this year because he's gotten hammered in some games while he's been tough in others. He's also had a terrible team playing behind him, one riddled with injuries. And to answer your question, Yes! I would most definitely like to see him on the Sox. Especially after I watched Colon, Garland and Loiza take the gas in big games. Lackey has stones, something our team doesn't. He won game 7 of the world series, staring down Barry Bonds. What did our guys do? Turned around and flipped up their skirts.

He might have stones...but that ERA is damn close to 5 over the course of the year....I'm not saying I wouldn't want him here, but I wouldnt be morgaging the farm to do it either