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TornLabrum
09-20-2003, 09:52 PM
Like many another promise made by Jerry Manuel, this one lasted one whole game, too. Billy Koch? Leaving him in? Yeah, that's playing to win!

RKMeibalane
09-20-2003, 09:57 PM
As PHG said last month, Manuel's antics are indefensible.

Viva Magglio
09-20-2003, 09:58 PM
Didn't another former Chicago coach try the "play to win" plan can come up something less-than-roses?

:wanne
"Ahaap..."

RKMeibalane
09-20-2003, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Didn't another former Chicago coach try the "play to win" plan can come up something less-than-roses?

:wanne
"Ahaap..."

Jerry Manuel, Terry Bevington, Dave Wandstedt, Tim Floyd...

There have been some extremely ****ty coaches in this town.

hsnterprize
09-21-2003, 12:35 PM
You know something, Hal...when I read some comments from Manuel about how important it was for teh Sox to win every game, I got to thinking...

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when people like Maggs, Paulie, C-Lee, or Frank hit into double plays with runners on base and less than two outs?

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when the relief pitching doesn't hold a lead late into a game?

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when major leaguers were running the bases worse whan little leaguers, and killing potential rallies over and over again?

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when the Sox would face a pitcher they've never seen before and make him look like a Cy Young Award candidate?

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when the team forgets that hitting a single in the outfield is a GOOD thing in regards to moving runners into or out of scoring position?

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when a new acquisition, Roberto Alomar, does more in sacrificing bunts in a couple of months than the rest of the team has performed all season?

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when Manuel was turning in a different lineup every stinkin' day? With all due respect, has anyone ever told him that the key to a WINNING ballclub is to find a winning lineup and STICK WITH IT?????

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when Manuel decided to pitch Neal Cotts against the N.Y. Yankees instead of Mark Buehrle...oh I know...he was more interested in winning "series" instead of "games".

Who knows...if Manuel had this "we have to play to win" attitude much earlier in the year instead of being in this impossible-to-overcome situation...maybe the Sox would've clinched the division by now. If he decided that winning was more important than playing everyone (or at least better explained his reasoning for constantly changing the lineups), then who knows...maybe we'd be bragging to our flubbie fan friends about who's the best team in this town.

I respect Manuel as a person. He does great work within the community, and is a man of faith. I don't dispute that, and I admire his stances on many things. However, it's one thing to quote scriptures...it's another thing to constantly fix what ain't broke. I've read post after post about Manuel's ouster, and I confess I've been hesitant to jump on that bandwagon because I wanted to give him a chance to silence the critics. And for a while, it looked like that was going to happen. I understand that Manuel doesn't throw, hit, field, and catch balls, run bases, or is on the field. However, it's his job to stress the importance of winning games...even when the pennant race isn't within immediate sight. As much as it pains me to say this...

:firejerry

Jerry...you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

kittle42
09-21-2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Like many another promise made by Jerry Manuel, this one lasted one whole game, too. Billy Koch? Leaving him in? Yeah, that's playing to win!

I must say that even though I stopped caring after game three of the Minnesota series, and I'm sure this was discussed in the game thread yesterday, but Koch can't pitch more than an inning. Just because you don't use someone forever dosn't make them a long reliever.

:jerry
"I hear Tony G can pitch in a pinch. Plus, that would let me get Willie the playing time that his mom and dad keep asking for."

TornLabrum
09-21-2003, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by hsnterprize
You know something, Hal...when I read some comments from Manuel about how important it was for teh Sox to win every game, I got to thinking...

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when people like Maggs, Paulie, C-Lee, or Frank hit into double plays with runners on base and less than two outs?

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when the relief pitching doesn't hold a lead late into a game?

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when major leaguers were running the bases worse whan little leaguers, and killing potential rallies over and over again?

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when the Sox would face a pitcher they've never seen before and make him look like a Cy Young Award candidate?

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when the team forgets that hitting a single in the outfield is a GOOD thing in regards to moving runners into or out of scoring position?

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when a new acquisition, Roberto Alomar, does more in sacrificing bunts in a couple of months than the rest of the team has performed all season?

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when Manuel was turning in a different lineup every stinkin' day? With all due respect, has anyone ever told him that the key to a WINNING ballclub is to find a winning lineup and STICK WITH IT?????

Where was this "we have to play to win" attitude when Manuel decided to pitch Neal Cotts against the N.Y. Yankees instead of Mark Buehrle...oh I know...he was more interested in winning "series" instead of "games".

Who knows...if Manuel had this "we have to play to win" attitude much earlier in the year instead of being in this impossible-to-overcome situation...maybe the Sox would've clinched the division by now. If he decided that winning was more important than playing everyone (or at least better explained his reasoning for constantly changing the lineups), then who knows...maybe we'd be bragging to our flubbie fan friends about who's the best team in this town.

I respect Manuel as a person. He does great work within the community, and is a man of faith. I don't dispute that, and I admire his stances on many things. However, it's one thing to quote scriptures...it's another thing to constantly fix what ain't broke. I've read post after post about Manuel's ouster, and I confess I've been hesitant to jump on that bandwagon because I wanted to give him a chance to silence the critics. And for a while, it looked like that was going to happen. I understand that Manuel doesn't throw, hit, field, and catch balls, run bases, or is on the field. However, it's his job to stress the importance of winning games...even when the pennant race isn't within immediate sight. As much as it pains me to say this...

:firejerry

Jerry...you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

Much as people here might dismiss it as so much posturing at this point, I have to say that I've met Jerry Manuel and his wife Renette on numerous occasions and you could never meet two nicer people. Jerry has appeared at a couple of our (Windy City Sox Fans) holiday parties and couldn't have been more gracious, going so far as to passing around his World Series ring for everyone to look at. (I think our president Mary Kay's heart was in her throat until he got it back.) Renette always stops by our booth at SoxFest and says hi to everyone.

So I have to say it really hurts me to have pounded on him so much this summer. Unfortunately there is more to managing a major league ball club than being a great guy and a role model. You have to manage intelligently and maximize the production of every member of the team. Manuel's tactics just haven't done that.

I really hope he finds a place in the game (if that's what he wants to do) that is more suited to him. I refuse to wish ill on any person. I just hope this drama ends soon.