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View Full Version : 2 words that have essentially killed our postseason hopes:


ChiSox14305635
09-20-2003, 07:45 PM
Double Play.


I have never seen a club ground into so many double plays in my life! It's the ultimate rally killer. When Ordonez came up in the 6th against Anderson with Frank & Robbie on, I knew exactly what he was going to do. And if it's not Mags, it's Paulie, CLee or Valentin. Our pitchers have pitched their arses off this year, and every time the Sox get something going, the DP takes the opposition off the hook! Come offseason time, they seriously need to work on keeping the ball off the ground! Sickening!




Oh, and for those that thought those 2 words would be Jerry Manuel; partial credit. Lord knows he's had a hand in it too.

Jerko
09-20-2003, 09:30 PM
Well, how about starting a runner or 2 every now and then. Stealing a base? Hitting to the opposite field. ANYTHING. And yes, I thought the 2 words were Jerry Manuel, and that would be correct as well.

Win1ForMe
09-20-2003, 09:47 PM
It does seem like we've grounded into a TON of double plays. I checked the stats to see if we were in first place (like I was expecting) but to my surprise we were only 12th with 124 GIDP.

By comparison, the Yankees, Blue Jays, Cardinals, Mariners, and even the Twins all have grounded into more DPs than the Sox. All those teams have also scored more runs than Sox. Maybe it's not as important as we all think?

...I will say though that the Sox seem to make a habit into hitting into DPs just when they need to rally or when they're tied. I would love to see what percentage of DPs were with us ahead, tied, or losing.

TornLabrum
09-20-2003, 09:53 PM
I was surprised at the answer when I read this. I would have said, "Jerry Manuel."

Huisj
09-20-2003, 10:26 PM
those teams have probably had more guys on base, so they naturally ground into more DPs. It seems like the sox DPs are always when it counts and with their big hitters, because NOBODY on this team can do any sort of situational hitting. nobody hits the ball to the opposite field.

LASOXFAN
09-21-2003, 01:31 AM
Ground balls are very often the result of a batter trying to pull a curve ball. This thread points out a huge problem which is only one of the symptoms I'm afraid. Time and time again this team has SEEN how trying to go back up the middle or to right field produces results. Yet I am left with my mouth open and my head shaking "no" as I watch them try to hammer the ball with full cuts.

Konerko is a prime example (although Frank and Mags are right there with him). When he bounced back I thought it was for good because I saw him punch the ball into right field for basehits. When Mags proclaimed at the break that he was going to do much better he did it by hitting the ball to right. Next thing you know he's in contention for the batting title! Yet look at how quickly they abandon that philosophy. I don't blame Manuel for this; in fact, he's been more frustrated by it than anyone in the organization but he's too much of a pacifist to raise the point in the press. These guys are calling their own shots and they'll continue to do so no matter who's managing. This is what I mean by a bigger problem. I think this team needs to be overhauled. Big time. And here's my list of "untouchables":

Marte (the man's a dynamite pitcher when he keeps it down)
Buehrle (never ever part with good left handed starters)
Garland (Farmer's right: he's a 20 game winner in two years)
CLee (I'm a convert: this guy's upside is huge)
Crede (I hope he's the future at 3B for many years)
Olivo (I hesitate, but that gun he has is just too damn good)

That's it! I leave Mags off for the simple reason that I've watched him disappear in big games in 2000 and 2003. I'd rather have a money player, someone who shows up when the chips are down. We could get a TON for him this off season.

Dadawg_77
09-21-2003, 02:46 AM
Konerko leads the majors in GIDP, Mags is fourth, and Lee I think was fifth or fourth. Since those guys hit within close together at the top of the order those DPs are bigger then if our ninth and seventh place hitter lead the team in GIDPs.

hose
09-21-2003, 07:29 AM
It's like Hawk say's "Don't tell me what you hit , tell me when you hit it."



"Mercy"
:hawk

kittle42
09-21-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
Well, how about starting a runner or 2 every now and then. Stealing a base? Hitting to the opposite field. ANYTHING. And yes, I thought the 2 words were Jerry Manuel, and that would be correct as well.

The other night, even when they did start a runner (Alomar), they still hit into a damn double play.

ChiSox14305635
09-21-2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
Ground balls are very often the result of a batter trying to pull a curve ball. This thread points out a huge problem which is only one of the symptoms I'm afraid. Time and time again this team has SEEN how trying to go back up the middle or to right field produces results. Yet I am left with my mouth open and my head shaking "no" as I watch them try to hammer the ball with full cuts.

Konerko is a prime example (although Frank and Mags are right there with him). When he bounced back I thought it was for good because I saw him punch the ball into right field for basehits. When Mags proclaimed at the break that he was going to do much better he did it by hitting the ball to right. Next thing you know he's in contention for the batting title! Yet look at how quickly they abandon that philosophy. I don't blame Manuel for this; in fact, he's been more frustrated by it than anyone in the organization but he's too much of a pacifist to raise the point in the press. These guys are calling their own shots and they'll continue to do so no matter who's managing. This is what I mean by a bigger problem. I think this team needs to be overhauled. Big time. And here's my list of "untouchables":

Marte (the man's a dynamite pitcher when he keeps it down)
Buehrle (never ever part with good left handed starters)
Garland (Farmer's right: he's a 20 game winner in two years)
CLee (I'm a convert: this guy's upside is huge)
Crede (I hope he's the future at 3B for many years)
Olivo (I hesitate, but that gun he has is just too damn good)

That's it! I leave Mags off for the simple reason that I've watched him disappear in big games in 2000 and 2003. I'd rather have a money player, someone who shows up when the chips are down. We could get a TON for him this off season.


I agree with you on Garland. He's gonna be awesome. One thing I have noticed with him is he pitches alot better when he's working with a slim lead. Whenever the Sox have a big inning when he's on the bump, he usually regresses a bit, and will give up a few runs, but if it's a one or 2 run lead, he's extremely solid. He's showing some of that top of the rotation ability, and hopefully, further work with Coop will only improve that.