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Win1ForMe
09-20-2003, 04:33 PM
Just doing some surfing using ESPN's insider and found some good stuff:

1. Looks like Curt Schilling will be available in 2004. Arizona will be trying to cut $15M in payroll for next year and a total of $40M for 2005. I'm not saying the Sox are even in the picture for Schilling but if they'd be willing to take on 6 million of Livan Hernandez's salary they might as well add an extra 4 mil and get Schilling. The $10M Curt makes next season (final year of contract) will probably equal Colon's next-season sallary but without the long-term comittment the Sox would need to make.

link: http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/6808487.htm

2. The Dodgers will possibly try to move Odalis Perez for a power hitter next season (Carlos? PK?--> we can hope). Looks as if management is upset with Odalis...

link: http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200~29583~1643925,00.html

3. Here's a Montreal story on Expos maybe having to cut payroll to $20M and having to get rid of Vidro, Vazquez, Livan, etc. Relevant since the Sox may want to explore trading for one the previously mentioned pitchers.

link: http://www.canada.com/montreal/sports/story.asp?id=66615442-A6BC-413B-ACA7-DDB59ABAD075

4. This is a good story on LaRussa maybe leaving the Cardinals after this year. I personally don't think the Sox have a shot at him but some people on this board made the suggestion so I thought I'd put up a link to the story.

link: http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/baseball/article/0,1426,MCA_464_2283630,00.html

MRKARNO
09-20-2003, 04:41 PM
Well the first one sounds a bit hopeful because it mentions Guardado might leave minnesota...to the cubs, but at least he'd be out of the division if this happened.

soxtalker
09-20-2003, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
Just doing some surfing using ESPN's insider and found some good stuff:

4. This is a good story on LaRussa maybe leaving the Cardinals after this year. I personally don't think the Sox have a shot at him but some people on this board made the suggestion so I thought I'd put up a link to the story.

link: http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/baseball/article/0,1426,MCA_464_2283630,00.html

I don't understand the comments about LaRussa. Can someone who might have been following the Cardinals a bit closer explain.

I wonder how he'd fit with the Sox. It seems that he's kept a good relationship with JR over the years. Of course, the dollars might be an issue. I wonder what KW thinks of him. The last time this came up I always had the suspicion that Schueler didn't really want to see LaRussa come here.

MarkEdward
09-21-2003, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
I don't understand the comments about LaRussa. Can someone who might have been following the Cardinals a bit closer explain.

I wonder how he'd fit with the Sox. It seems that he's kept a good relationship with JR over the years. Of course, the dollars might be an issue. I wonder what KW thinks of him. The last time this came up I always had the suspicion that Schueler didn't really want to see LaRussa come here.

If people complain about Manuel's bullpen mismanagement, just wait until they see LaRussa try to manage a bullpen.

If LaRussa ever comes back, don't be surprised if we keep 14 pitchers on the 25 man roster...

Win1ForMe
09-21-2003, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
If people complain about Manuel's bullpen mismanagement, just wait until they see LaRussa try to manage a bullpen.

If LaRussa ever comes back, don't be surprised if we keep 14 pitchers on the 25 man roster...

I haven't really watched or studied the way LaRussa manages his teams. I did, however, watch Friday's game between the Astros and Cards. With the Cardinals, I thought I was watching the NL's version of the Sox. I mean there were just a ton of mental lapses, defensive mistakes, hitters grounding in DPs, complete lack of clutch hitting, etc.

He seems to hate Dusty and the Cubs though, so I'll give him some bonus points...

VeeckAsInWreck
09-21-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe

2. The Dodgers will possibly try to move Odalis Perez for a power hitter next season (Carlos? PK?--> we can hope). Looks as if management is upset with Odalis...


Don't get rid of Carlos Lee, he is finally showing that potential that we have all been waiting for. As much as I like Konerko, I have seen him ground into 3 million double plays this year, I know I just gave an exaggerated number, but I could only be off by 5 at the most.

Carlos Lee can hit for power, a decent average, and he can even steal some bases. Pauly on the other hand, can occasionally hit, and he runs like he has 2 pianos strapped on his back!

gosox41
09-21-2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
If people complain about Manuel's bullpen mismanagement, just wait until they see LaRussa try to manage a bullpen.

If LaRussa ever comes back, don't be surprised if we keep 14 pitchers on the 25 man roster...

I don't like LaRussa. He is just a whiny crybaby who is highly overrated as a manager. He may be an upgrade from JM but LaRussa sepnds too much time worrying about what other people are saying about him then anything. Also he seems to have that attitude where when he does something like throw at a batter it's completely unintentional, but if it's done to him then it's on purpose and a big stink will be raised.

I never understood the infatuation with this guy. People give him credit for the A's in the late '80's. The way I see it, that team should have won more then 1 WS and LaRussa was a big reason why they didn't do better.

Bob

fuzzy_patters
09-21-2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I don't like LaRussa. He is just a whiny crybaby who is highly overrated as a manager. He may be an upgrade from JM but LaRussa sepnds too much time worrying about what other people are saying about him then anything. Also he seems to have that attitude where when he does something like throw at a batter it's completely unintentional, but if it's done to him then it's on purpose and a big stink will be raised.

I never understood the infatuation with this guy. People give him credit for the A's in the late '80's. The way I see it, that team should have won more then 1 WS and LaRussa was a big reason why they didn't do better.

Bob

Perhaps you are unaware that, in addition to managing those A's, Larussa was also the manager of the 1983 White Sox.

Dan H
09-21-2003, 02:50 PM
Schilling has already said he won't pla for Jerry Reinsdorf. Wonder how many more players feel the same way.

Win1ForMe
09-21-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Dan H
Schilling has already said he won't pla for Jerry Reinsdorf. Wonder how many more players feel the same way.

Any idea as to when he said it and why he said it? Keep in mind Schilling said he would never go back to Philly and that seems to be his #1 destination this off-season.

I personally think he's full of crap and wants attention when he says these things.

longshot7
09-21-2003, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
2. The Dodgers will possibly try to move Odalis Perez for a power hitter next season (Carlos? PK?--> we can hope). Looks as if management is upset with Odalis...

good research. Trading Konerko is not a bad idea - the Dodgers need a 1B bad, and they might welcome Paulie back to Chavez Ravine with open arms. Perez is a pretty good pitcher - I've been impressed with him, but he does need to watch his mouth at times.

then again, we could do the easy thing and resign Bartolo.

TDog
09-21-2003, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I don't like LaRussa. He ... seems to have that attitude where when he does something like throw at a batter it's completely unintentional, but if it's done to him then it's on purpose and a big stink will be raised. ...

My biggest problem with LaRussa is that he doesn't order his pitcher to throw at Sosa enough. But seriously, who was the last Sox manager to get a standing ovation for throwing third base?

RichH55
09-21-2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
good research. Trading Konerko is not a bad idea - the Dodgers need a 1B bad, and they might welcome Paulie back to Chavez Ravine with open arms. Perez is a pretty good pitcher - I've been impressed with him, but he does need to watch his mouth at times.

then again, we could do the easy thing and resign Bartolo.


Konerko for Perez??? Where do I sign up!

RichH55
09-21-2003, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
Any idea as to when he said it and why he said it? Keep in mind Schilling said he would never go back to Philly and that seems to be his #1 destination this off-season.

I personally think he's full of crap and wants attention when he says these things.

Say what you will about JR, but Schilling is a jack-ass. He might be right about JR(I'm sure Lip would be chomping at the bit to take some shots at JR here), but generally you want to find someone with some credibility to back up your points

MarkEdward
09-21-2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Konerko for Perez??? Where do I sign up!

Am I the only one who doesn't think the Dodgers would welcome Konerko "with open arms?" Yes, the Dodgers are desperate for hitters; that doesn't mean they'd be willing to take on a 6.5 million dollar contract from a player who hit somewhat well one year ago. Even when Konerko was hitting well, it was just average for a first baseman. In my opinion, he wouldn't survive in Dodgers' Stadium.

Now, I'd totally do a Carlos Lee for Odalis Perez deal. It's seems very Beane-esque to me. People are focusing on what Perez can't do or on what he's doing wrong (mouthy, not a 'gamer') and not on recognizing what he can do (strike out many hitters while walking few). Meanwhile, some seem to overvalue Lee because of his high RBI total, where his other stats are taking a dive (OBP falling, walks decreasing).

Hope that makes sense...

RichH55
09-21-2003, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Am I the only one who doesn't think the Dodgers would welcome Konerko "with open arms?" Yes, the Dodgers are desperate for hitters; that doesn't mean they'd be willing to take on a 6.5 million dollar contract from a player who hit somewhat well one year ago. Even when Konerko was hitting well, it was just average for a first baseman. In my opinion, he wouldn't survive in Dodgers' Stadium.

Now, I'd totally do a Carlos Lee for Odalis Perez deal. It's seems very Beane-esque to me. People are focusing on what Perez can't do or on what he's doing wrong (mouthy, not a 'gamer') and not on recognizing what he can do (strike out many hitters while walking few). Meanwhile, some seem to overvalue Lee because of his high RBI total, where his other stats are taking a dive (OBP falling, walks decreasing).

Hope that makes sense...

Would you rather it be C. Lee than Konerko??!?!?

Cmon

And its 8 million for Konerko...so thats even worse:) Plus he has a trade kicker in that bad boy.

The whole point of the deal isnt getting Perez...though thats certainly a nice little bonus...the point is to rid ourselves of the albatross Paulie has become

Iwritecode
09-22-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
If people complain about Manuel's bullpen mismanagement, just wait until they see LaRussa try to manage a bullpen.

If LaRussa ever comes back, don't be surprised if we keep 14 pitchers on the 25 man roster...

You also have to remember that he manages in the NL where you have to replace pitchers because their spot in the batting order comes up...

Rocky Soprano
09-22-2003, 12:56 PM
Konerko can leave but I would hate to see the Sox trade Carlos.

MarkEdward
09-22-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by RichH55


Would you rather it be C. Lee than Konerko??!?!?


No, but in reality, there's no way Dan Evans would deal Perez for Konerko (straight up).

For what it's worth, if I had to choose between Ordonez and Lee, I'm taking Mags.


Originally posted by Iwritecode


You also have to remember that he manages in the NL where you have to replace pitchers because their spot in the batting order comes up...

Yes, but he does it more often than the average NL manager.

Seriously, if LaRussa comes back, expect to have five LOOGYs in the pen at any given time. Don't get me started with his management of catchers...

voodoochile
09-22-2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Yes, but he does it more often than the average NL manager.

Seriously, if LaRussa comes back, expect to have five LOOGYs in the pen at any given time. Don't get me started with his management of catchers...

Ever since Darryl Kile's untimely passing, the Cardinals starting pitching has been devasted in a series of injuries. Yet the Cardinals remain competitive. LaRussa must be doing something right...

Iwritecode
09-22-2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Ever since Darryl Kile's untimely passing, the Cardinals starting pitching has been devasted in a series of injuries. Yet the Cardinals remain competitive. LaRussa must be doing something right...

I don't really have an opinion on LaRussa one way or the other but think about this for a second...

When is the last time the Cardinals went to the playoffs? Once in the past 5 years? I seem to remember them coming in second or third quite often. So obviously they're winning but still coming up just short every year. Sounds a lot like another Central division team...

Throw in the fact that they hate the Cubs and they're almost identical...

PaleHoseGeorge
09-22-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Ever since Darryl Kile's untimely passing, the Cardinals starting pitching has been devasted in a series of injuries. Yet the Cardinals remain competitive. LaRussa must be doing something right...

I remember Reinsdorf and Schueler pursuing LaRussa as new Sox manager back in '97, before LaRussa expressed no interest and the Sox settled on Jim Leyland's bench coach. IIRC, the Sox were also interested in LaRussa in 1992 (instead hired Leyland's third base coach) and 1995 (instead kept interim knucklehead Bevington). Maybe my memory is fooling me, but the Sox have pretty much pursued LaRussa ever since everyone in the front office (except Hawk Harrelson) determined it was a big mistake to ever fire him back in 1986. I suspect by now even Hawk is on board with getting LaRussa back. :smile:

:hawk
"Yessir... Tony LaRussa. The man can flat-out manage, DJ."

:DJ
"Hmm.. hum... "

Just wondering... could it have been a foreshadowing of the future that LaRussa made time to attend the '83 Sox reunion dinner smack in the middle of the Cardinals' pennant race? I was quite surprised by this at the time. Maybe there is more to it???

MarkEdward
09-22-2003, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Ever since Darryl Kile's untimely passing, the Cardinals starting pitching has been devasted in a series of injuries. Yet the Cardinals remain competitive. LaRussa must be doing something right...

I'd attribute the successes of the Cardinals' pitching staff to Dave Duncan.

One can make the same argument in favor of Manuel (without the Kile passing): Throughout the first half, the White Sox were devastated with extremely bad hitters (Olivo, Konerko, Crede, Rowand, and Harris all had OPS' under .700). Yet the Sox seem to remain competitive. Manuel must be doing something right...

It's a bad argument, but an argument nonetheless.

Edit: for spelling, and the NL Central has been bad. Any team with a hint of talent can remain competitive in that division.

hold2dibber
09-22-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Am I the only one who doesn't think the Dodgers would welcome Konerko "with open arms?" Yes, the Dodgers are desperate for hitters; that doesn't mean they'd be willing to take on a 6.5 million dollar contract from a player who hit somewhat well one year ago. Even when Konerko was hitting well, it was just average for a first baseman. In my opinion, he wouldn't survive in Dodgers' Stadium.

Now, I'd totally do a Carlos Lee for Odalis Perez deal. It's seems very Beane-esque to me. People are focusing on what Perez can't do or on what he's doing wrong (mouthy, not a 'gamer') and not on recognizing what he can do (strike out many hitters while walking few). Meanwhile, some seem to overvalue Lee because of his high RBI total, where his other stats are taking a dive (OBP falling, walks decreasing).

Hope that makes sense...

(1) Check out Odalis's splits - he is awesome at cavernous Chevez Ravine, but he gets shelled elsewhere. I think it quite likely that he'd be Chan Ho Park-like (sans the injuries) in the AL, away from Dodgers Stadium.

(2) With that said, I'd deal Paulie for him in a second, just to free up payroll. I don't think the Dodgers would do that deal straight up, but I think they would if (a) the Sox paid a portion of PK's salary; and/or (b) if the Sox threw in a half decent prospect or two. I'd love to see the Sox try (a).

(3) I wouldn't deal Carlos Lee for Odalis Perez, no way, no how. I do think there is some sense to dealing either Maggs or CLee this off season - I would rather keep Maggs since I think he's better and CLee's value is at an all-time high, but on the other hand, CLee is younger and cheaper. I guess it all comes down to what they could get in return. But I'd listen to offers for both of them.

MarkEdward
09-22-2003, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
(1) Check out Odalis's splits - he is awesome at cavernous Chevez Ravine, but he gets shelled elsewhere. I think it quite likely that he'd be Chan Ho Park-like (sans the injuries) in the AL, away from Dodgers Stadium.

Wow, there is a bit of a difference. I didn't even bother to look at the splits (I took a quick glance at SNWAR, which does take park factors into account). Here are his splits for 2003:
Home: 2.73 ERA, 69 IP
Road: 5.32 ERA 115 IP

However, the splits weren't so different in 2002:
Home: 2.75 ERA, 124 IP
Road: 3.31 ERA, 98 IP

As for the comparison to Park, I guess I could buy it. Looking at their peripherals, Park had the better K/9 (8.4 to 6.8) and gave up fewer homers (.9/9IP to 1.3/9IP), but Perez walked fewer batters per nine innings (2.2 to 3.5).

(2) With that said, I'd deal Paulie for him in a second, just to free up payroll. I don't think the Dodgers would do that deal straight up, but I think they would if (a) the Sox paid a portion of PK's salary; and/or (b) if the Sox threw in a half decent prospect or two. I'd love to see the Sox try (a).

I just think that some tend to be valuing Konerko a bit too high. Right now, I think of him as a salary dump (meaning we'd get little to nothing for him in return). If we threw a prospect in with PK, it would have to be a pretty good prospect. And right now, aside from Honel and Reed, we really don't have anyone that can be considered a great prospect.

(3) I wouldn't deal Carlos Lee for Odalis Perez, no way, no how. I do think there is some sense to dealing either Maggs or CLee this off season - I would rather keep Maggs since I think he's better and CLee's value is at an all-time high, but on the other hand, CLee is younger and cheaper. I guess it all comes down to what they could get in return. But I'd listen to offers for both of them.

Losing Mags' bat would be huge. According to EQA, he's the 12th best hitter in the AL, and the best right fielder in the AL. Lee has been hitting well this year, but I think Reed will be more than ready to take his place by mid-2004 or 2005.

kempsted
09-23-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
I don't really have an opinion on LaRussa one way or the other but think about this for a second...

When is the last time the Cardinals went to the playoffs? Once in the past 5 years? I seem to remember them coming in second or third quite often. So obviously they're winning but still coming up just short every year. Sounds a lot like another Central division team...

Throw in the fact that they hate the Cubs and they're almost identical...
Hmmm. NO. They won the central division in 2000, 2001 and 2003 - three straight before this one. In 2000 they even swept the Braves in the division series and ins 2002 they swept the Arizona dimondbacks. So in 2 of the last three years he took them to the NLCS.

He is the 8th manager in MLB history to reach 2000 wins and everyone ahead of him is in the hall of fame as a manager. He has been with three teams and taken all three teams to the post season. Say what you want but he seems to be doing something right.

jabrch
09-23-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
Any idea as to when he said it and why he said it? Keep in mind Schilling said he would never go back to Philly and that seems to be his #1 destination this off-season.

I personally think he's full of crap and wants attention when he says these things.

Schilling was one of the key player reps during the last strike/lockout. He had some one-on-ones with JR that left a very bitter taste in his mouth. There is absolutely no chance that we get Curt Schilling to play here, or that we'd have the money to pay him what he'd want.

jabrch
09-23-2003, 12:59 PM
but I can't see the bat they chose being Konerko. That contract....whoa...

They took on Hundley last year, but only because they were desperate to unload Grudzalenek and Karros. If the Cubs didn't take those two (13MM), the Dodgers would never have taken Hundley's 8. LA is going to make a play at Tejada. At Vlad. At Suzuki, at some other top flight hitters. I just can't see them spending 8 on PK and giving up a starter in the process. Why would they? I think that's an albatross that we are stuck with folks.

BeerHandle
09-23-2003, 01:37 PM
I would love for LaRussa to return to the South Side. He was at Ditka's for the '83 reunion. I don't think it will happen, but it would be great!

SoxxoS
09-23-2003, 01:48 PM
Most of the sportswriters here in Arizona hate Shilling. He is a real arrogant A-hole. Most of the fans don't even really like him, but since he is so good, they kind of let his personality slide.

bobj4400
09-23-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
No, but in reality, there's no way Dan Evans would deal Perez for Konerko (straight up).



Not so fast, you are talking about the same GM that traded Grudzielanek and Karros for Todd Hundley. I know it was considered a salary dump on both ends, but Todd Hundley has to be one of the worst baseball players of the last five years, and a clubhouse cancer to boot. At least Karros and Grudz seem to be good clubhouse guys even if they couldnt play a lick anymore. Unfortunately they have proved they can still play.

At least all the KW bashing and Evans love that was going on before has died down a bit.

MarkEdward
09-23-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Not so fast, you are talking about the same GM that traded Grudzielanek and Karros for Todd Hundley. I know it was considered a salary dump on both ends, but Todd Hundley has to be one of the worst baseball players of the last five years, and a clubhouse cancer to boot. At least Karros and Grudz seem to be good clubhouse guys even if they couldnt play a lick anymore. Unfortunately they have proved they can still play.

At least all the KW bashing and Evans love that was going on before has died down a bit.

Yes, Grudz and Karros for Hundley was a salary dump for both teams. At the end of the 2002 season, it appeared as though none of these players had anything left int heir tanks (as it turned out, Hundley got injured, and Karros and Grudz had a good year). Right now, Konerko has no value, while Perez seems to have a lot of value.

An equivalent to the Grudz and Karros for Hundley deal would be something like Konerko for Andy Ashby.

longshot7
09-23-2003, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Am I the only one who doesn't think the Dodgers would welcome Konerko "with open arms?" Yes, the Dodgers are desperate for hitters; that doesn't mean they'd be willing to take on a 6.5 million dollar contract from a player who hit somewhat well one year ago. Even when Konerko was hitting well, it was just average for a first baseman. In my opinion, he wouldn't survive in Dodgers' Stadium.

Dan Evans is an idiot - he would take Konerko in a heartbeat and would probably trade us somebody else with Perez.