PDA

View Full Version : Statue at the Cell


FJA
09-19-2003, 11:05 AM
Next year, a statue will be unveiled at U.S. Cellular Field. Will it be of Joe Jackson, Nellie Fox, Carlton Fisk?

Of course not. The latest decoration to the outside of the Cell will be a statue of Charles Comiskey. Now I'm all for honoring the Comiskey name, but leave it to a cheapskate like Reinsdorf to build the stadium's only statue to the organization's most notorious cheapskate. If we're going to get into the statue-erecting business, can we at least unveil some players as well, like many of the newer stadiums have done? I hope that's in the plans somewhere, because the thought of Charles Comiskey being the only and thus most significant monument at the park is somewhat disheartening.

Anyway, here's the link. (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sside191.html)

jortafan
09-19-2003, 11:09 AM
Get real. This is actually long overdue.

The man was only the founder of the White Sox, one of the founders of the American League, and the guy who put together four of the five White Sox teams that actually managed to win AL pennants, along with the two Sox teams that won World Series titles.

I'll admit that some players should receive honors. There should be more things throughout the building that acknowledge the history of the White Sox.

But none of it would have happened if not for the Old Roman himself. Just think. If there were no White Sox, we'd all be stuck rooting for the Cubs.

mandmandm
09-19-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by jortafan
Just think. If there were no White Sox, we'd all be stuck rooting for the Cubs.

Or we would be able to enjoy out summers carefree without having to worry about the annual kick in the groin that happens each September on the south side.

FJA
09-19-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by jortafan
Get real. This is actually long overdue.

The man was only the founder of the White Sox, one of the founders of the American League, and the guy who put together four of the five White Sox teams that actually managed to win AL pennants, along with the two Sox teams that won World Series titles.

I'll admit that some players should receive honors. There should be more things throughout the building that acknowledge the history of the White Sox.

But none of it would have happened if not for the Old Roman himself. Just think. If there were no White Sox, we'd all be stuck rooting for the Cubs.

I can certainly see where you're coming from, and like I said, I'm all for honoring the Comiskey name for the obvious reasons you stated. However, I'd rather know that, if we're going to start erecting statues, we can recognize other important contributions to White Sox history ... there are others just as deserving of statues (if not more so) outside the Cell.

Randar68
09-19-2003, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by FJA
Next year, a statue will be unveiled at U.S. Cellular Field. Will it be of Joe Jackson, Nellie Fox, Carlton Fisk?

Of course not. The latest decoration to the outside of the Cell will be a statue of Charles Comiskey. Now I'm all for honoring the Comiskey name, but leave it to a cheapskate like Reinsdorf to build the stadium's only statue to the organization's most notorious cheapskate. If we're going to get into the statue-erecting business, can we at least unveil some players as well, like many of the newer stadiums have done? I hope that's in the plans somewhere, because the thought of Charles Comiskey being the only and thus most significant monument at the park is somewhat disheartening.

Anyway, here's the link. (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sside191.html)


IIRC, this was part of the agreement to change the name to US Cellular Field. JR promised the Comiskey Family that some sort of memorial or statue would be erected to honor the team's former owner.

I know the losses suck, but let's not over-analyze these things so soon.

Viva Magglio
09-19-2003, 11:53 AM
:hitless
"What about the statue of me???"

What a wonderful idea that would be, Royce.

harwar
09-19-2003, 12:12 PM
How 'bout a statue of Jerry Reinsdorf with a big ol' cigar in one hand .. giving us White Sox fans the finger with the other.

VeeckAsInWreck
09-19-2003, 12:22 PM
Guys,

Does it really matter who the statue is for?
Regardless, the pigeons will still crap on it!

Randar68
09-19-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
Guys,

Does it really matter who the statue is for?
Regardless, the pigeons will still crap on it!

*****!!!!

Randar68
09-19-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by FJA
Next year, a statue will be unveiled at U.S. Cellular Field. Will it be of Joe Jackson, Nellie Fox, Carlton Fisk?

Of course not. The latest decoration to the outside of the Cell will be a statue of Charles Comiskey. Now I'm all for honoring the Comiskey name, but leave it to a cheapskate like Reinsdorf to build the stadium's only statue to the organization's most notorious cheapskate. If we're going to get into the statue-erecting business, can we at least unveil some players as well, like many of the newer stadiums have done? I hope that's in the plans somewhere, because the thought of Charles Comiskey being the only and thus most significant monument at the park is somewhat disheartening.

Anyway, here's the link. (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sside191.html)

With the giant OF concourse, they should have a series of statues of Past White Sox greats.

jortafan
09-19-2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
With the giant OF concourse, they should have a series of statues of Past White Sox greats.

Does anyone have any idea what became of that series of murals that used to stretch across the outfield concourse and depicted the history of the White Sox? I didn't notice it there anymore the last time I was at the Cell.

ewokpelts
09-19-2003, 12:35 PM
they took it down when they renovated the outfield concourse...where it is...i dunno

VeeckAsInWreck
09-19-2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
they took it down when they renovated the outfield concourse...where it is...i dunno

:reinsy
"let's just say, it makes good firewood!"

RKMeibalane
09-19-2003, 01:02 PM
The statue will be of...
















:reinsy

"Muhahahahahaha!"

thepaulbowski
09-19-2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
:hitless
"What about the statue of me???"

What a wonderful idea that would be, Royce.

We'll name a bathroom after you Royce. Because that's what you played like sh** :D:

Brian26
09-19-2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by mandmandm
Or we would be able to enjoy out summers carefree without having to worry about the annual kick in the groin that happens each September on the south side.

Each September? Are you kidding me. We were lucky this year. Usually it happens in May or June.

Chisox353014
09-19-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Each September? Are you kidding me. We were lucky this year. Usually it happens in May or June.

Actually it did happen in May and June this year.
And for that we can thank--->:jerry

jabrch
09-19-2003, 01:40 PM
I finally got accustomed to not having a statue of Frank Thomas playing First Base for us... ( :) - Had to...couldn't pass it up)

TornLabrum
09-19-2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
With the giant OF concourse, they should have a series of statues of Past White Sox greats.

Detroit has that for it's players with retired numbers and greats who came before numbers. I really like that feature of Comerica.

hose
09-19-2003, 05:37 PM
So Reinsy is going to finally honor:
:andy

MarkEdward
09-19-2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Detroit has that for it's players with retired numbers and greats who came before numbers. I really like that feature of Comerica.

I agree. I'd like to see the retired numbers put on one of those large billboards in the outfield, and some statues either on the outfield concourse or outside the park.

Now, which players hould be immortalized with a statue? Let's see: definitely Eddie Collins, Charles Comiskey I suppose also, and probably Ed Walsh. Am I missing anyone?

Randar68
09-19-2003, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
I agree. I'd like to see the retired numbers put on one of those large billboards in the outfield, and some statues either on the outfield concourse or outside the park.

Now, which players hould be immortalized with a statue? Let's see: definitely Eddie Collins, Charles Comiskey I suppose also, and probably Ed Walsh. Am I missing anyone?


Nellie Fox. Carlton Fisk. Joe Jackson.

TornLabrum
09-19-2003, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
I agree. I'd like to see the retired numbers put on one of those large billboards in the outfield, and some statues either on the outfield concourse or outside the park.

Now, which players hould be immortalized with a statue? Let's see: definitely Eddie Collins, Charles Comiskey I suppose also, and probably Ed Walsh. Am I missing anyone?

You have to have all of the retired numbers plus Collins, Walsh, Ray Schalk (after all he played almost his entire career here and is in the HOF), maybe George Davis (whose return to the lineup probably assured the Sox of beating the Cubs in the '06 Series), and Joe Jackson (if it's not against MLB rules to put of statues of ineligible players).

WinningUgly!
09-19-2003, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Nellie Fox. Carlton Fisk. Joe Jackson.

All deserving, but Fisk is still alive. I know there's a Jordan statue outside of the UC, but to me that's always seemed tacky. Statues of living people are creepy. I've always thought that honoring someone in the form of a statue was supposed to be done after they passed away. Maybe that's just me.

TDog
09-19-2003, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by FJA
... Now I'm all for honoring the Comiskey name, but leave it to a cheapskate like Reinsdorf to build the stadium's only statue to the organization's most notorious cheapskate....[/URL]

Charles Comiskey may indeed be the most notorious cheapskate to own the White Sox, considering the infamy relating to 1919. But he wasn't the last White Sox owner who could be classified as a cheapskate.

After the 1970 season, I read in The Sporting News that the Sox gave Looie Aparacio a raise from $40,000 to $60,000 a year, and that $60,000 was the highest contract ever signed by a Sox player. (Makes sense, considering Aparacio was only the greatest shortstop ever to walk the face of the earth. It's just too bad he was in a Red Sox uniform by April 1971, especially considering the Sox needed a shortstop when they challenged the A's in 1972.) In 1970, Aparacio's contract was double Carlos May's, according to what I read in the Tribune. In these days, the Sox big hitters weren't making that much more than some public school teachers. (I thought I had read elsewhere that the Sox had to shell out bigger bucks for Al Simmons many years earlier, but that was in the Comiskey era, so it wouldn't apply to Allyns' reign.) John Allyn was forced to pay Dick Allen record money at the time (resembling minimum wage now), and after a few disappointing seasons had to sell, and considered people who wanted to relocate the team.

Bill Veeck owned the Sox before and after the Allyns and before the Reinsdorf group. I've talked to LaMarr Hoyt about what it was like to be traded from the Yankees to Veeck's Sox. He said he liked training with the Yankees, and found Sarasota to be a dump in comparison to Lauderdale. LaMarr said Veeck was always having trouble making payroll, and the Reinsdorf regime greatly improved the organization. I've talked with others who have stories about Veeck's unwillingness or inability to spend money on the team. Some of the stories are actually very funny. I believe Veeck himself said he couldn't afford to be in baseball when he was with the Sox for his second go-around.

People around here vocally complain about Reinsdorf being cheap. They may be right. But if he is, he is probably less cheap than every other owner the Sox have ever had.

Lip Man 1
09-19-2003, 11:56 PM
Just wondering...

So do two, or three, or four wrongs (owners) make things right?

Just because Uncle Jerry wasn't as cheap as Bill Veeck, John Allyn, Art Allyn, or Charles Comiskey doesn't make him any better in my book.

He's spent the most money because the cost of playing the game is higher now then when Veeck, the Allyn's or Comiskey owned the club.

It's how you compare with OTHER owners at the same time, and Uncle Jerry is towards the bottom of the barrel in the department.

Case in point...the Twins had a higher payroll at the start of the season then the CHICAGO White Sox, and paid two million to get Kenny Rogers and picked up a million more when they traded for Shannon Stewert.

They didn't get players and have other teams pay for them did they? (a la Alomar, Everett, Sullivan)

I think it's a fairly safe assumption that if the Mets, Rangers and Reds weren't paying the overwhelming majority of their salaries they would NOT have been acquired.

When Uncle Jerry walks up to the mic at a press conference announcing that from now on the Sox will compete against the Cubs and raises the payroll to a Cub like 75 million, then I'll change my tune.

Lip

Shoeless Joe
09-20-2003, 12:14 AM
Originally posted TDog
Charles Comiskey may indeed be the most notorious cheapskate to own the White Sox, considering the infamy relating to 1919. But he wasn't the last White Sox owner who could be classified as a cheapskate.

After the 1970 season, I read in The Sporting News that the Sox gave Looie Aparacio a raise from $40,000 to $60,000 a year, and that $60,000 was the highest contract ever signed by a Sox player. (Makes sense, considering Aparacio was only the greatest shortstop ever to walk the face of the earth. It's just too bad he was in a Red Sox uniform by April 1971, especially considering the Sox needed a shortstop when they challenged the A's in 1972.) In 1970, Aparacio's contract was double Carlos May's, according to what I read in the Tribune. In these days, the Sox big hitters weren't making that much more than some public school teachers. (I thought I had read elsewhere that the Sox had to shell out bigger bucks for Al Simmons many years earlier, but that was in the Comiskey era, so it wouldn't apply to Allyns' reign.) John Allyn was forced to pay Dick Allen record money at the time (resembling minimum wage now), and after a few disappointing seasons had to sell, and considered people who wanted to relocate the team.

Bill Veeck owned the Sox before and after the Allyns and before the Reinsdorf group. I've talked to LaMarr Hoyt about what it was like to be traded from the Yankees to Veeck's Sox. He said he liked training with the Yankees, and found Sarasota to be a dump in comparison to Lauderdale. LaMarr said Veeck was always having trouble making payroll, and the Reinsdorf regime greatly improved the organization. I've talked with others who have stories about Veeck's unwillingness or inability to spend money on the team. Some of the stories are actually very funny. I believe Veeck himself said he couldn't afford to be in baseball when he was with the Sox for his second go-around.

People around here vocally complain about Reinsdorf being cheap. They may be right. But if he is, he is probably less cheap than every other owner the Sox have ever had.

Very true TDog, Reinsdorf isn't as cheap compared to his predecessers whether it's Comiskey or Veeck. Although the thing with Veeck was that he knew he couldn't spend any money so he did the best with what he had. Comiskey had the money to pay perennial winners but he decided not to. And the rest is history.

But going back to Reinsdorf, he managed to butcher more than a couple of things for the Sox (i.e. 1994, etc.). And because of that he can never have any type of respect from the fans. It doesn't matter if he spends money on players or not anymore. KW has shown that money doesn't have to be spent in order to get some quality players. Reinsdorf is going to be judged on what the team does on the field.

TDog
09-20-2003, 04:40 AM
If annually the Sox were turning a significant profit and the Reinsdorf group was not returning that profit to the on-the-field product, you could call Reinsdorf a cheapskate.

If you want Reinsdorf to accrue personal debt to improve the product he has on the field, you either want him to be a different sort of business man or a sports Santa Claus. You may feel that the Sox should have an owner willing to lose money to see that the city has a winner. You may believe that it would be smarter business to realize short-term debt for potential long-term profits. And it may anger you that this line of reasoning borders on blaming the fans for payroll limitations.

But cheapskate isn't the right word.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-20-2003, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by TDog
....If you want Reinsdorf to accrue personal debt to improve the product he has on the field, you either want him to be a different sort of business man or a sports Santa Claus. You may feel that the Sox should have an owner willing to lose money to see that the city has a winner. You may believe that it would be smarter business to realize short-term debt for potential long-term profits. And it may anger you that this line of reasoning borders on blaming the fans for payroll limitations....

The White Sox franchise has appreciated in value roughly ten-fold since when Reinsdorf's ownership group bought it from Bill Veeck back in 1981. There are better investments that would have returned more than the White Sox to Jerry Reinsdorf's personal wealth, but those investment opportunities aren't growing on trees.

Jerry Reinsdorf is no pauper for owning the White Sox. However he finds it profitable to act like one.

As a fan I could care less how much money JR makes owning the Sox. If his ownership group made another $200 million on the ballclub I wouldn't care a hoot. In my book he is only accountable for fielding a winner. I personally have been patiently waiting for him to deliver for 22 seasons... and Sox Fans in general have been waiting for 86 seasons... and it has been nothing but an endless string of excuses for front office mismanagement. In this respect Reinsdorf is no better (or worse) than any other Sox owner that has condemned this franchise and its fans.

TornLabrum
09-20-2003, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by TDog
After the 1970 season, I read in The Sporting News that the Sox gave Looie Aparacio a raise from $40,000 to $60,000 a year, and that $60,000 was the highest contract ever signed by a Sox player. (Makes sense, considering Aparacio was only the greatest shortstop ever to walk the face of the earth. It's just too bad he was in a Red Sox uniform by April 1971, especially considering the Sox needed a shortstop when they challenged the A's in 1972.) In 1970, Aparacio's contract was double Carlos May's, according to what I read in the Tribune. In these days, the Sox big hitters weren't making that much more than some public school teachers.

I'd like to know what public schools those were. I signe my "rookie" contract with the School City of Gary (IN) in 1973 for a whopping $8100.

MarkEdward
09-20-2003, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Randar68



Nellie Fox. Carlton Fisk. Joe Jackson.

Well, Fox and Fisk both have their numbers retired already. For the statues, I was thinking more along the lines of players who played before numbers.

Joe Jackson... well, I don't want to see a player who helped throw a World Series being honored like that.

Originally posted by TornLabrum


You have to have all of the retired numbers plus Collins, Walsh, Ray Schalk (after all he played almost his entire career here and is in the HOF), maybe George Davis (whose return to the lineup probably assured the Sox of beating the Cubs in the '06 Series), and Joe Jackson (if it's not against MLB rules to put of statues of ineligible players).

Ray Schalk: I know he's a Hall of Famer, but he was one of the worst picks for that honor. One can make the argument that Sherm Lollar had the better career, and I don't want to see him getting a statue.

George Davis: Yes, he did play well in the 1906 Series, but his best years weren't spent with the Sox.

I don't think I want to see players with retired numbers get statues. To me, the statues would be the equivalent of getting your jersey number retired. Giving someone like Luke Appling a statue would just be redundant (imo).

Procol Harum
09-20-2003, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by hose
So Reinsy is going to finally honor:
:andy

hose, you've struck upon a great idea--why not also put up a string of statues of some of Reinsdorf's immortal public relations "heroes" over the years such as that bonehead dj whatsisname--Joe Stevens?--and of course:

:R&R


And then finally a tribute to the PR genius who has done so much to make the Sox the #1 team in Chicago:

:gallas

TDog
09-20-2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I'd like to know what public schools those were. I signe my "rookie" contract with the School City of Gary (IN) in 1973 for a whopping $8100.

In 1971, my English teacher made $14,000 a year in Munster, Ind. He wasn't a rookie. Vida Blue won the Cy Young Award pitching for the A's, who paid him $13,500, the MLB minimum the time. Terry Forster, and some others on the Sox, made $13,500 in 1971.

Baseball salaries didn't dramatically improve until free agency forced owners to pay more in the mid-1970s. When I signed my rookie teaching contract in East Chicago, Ind., in 1978, it was for about $10,500. Had I gone to work for Bishop Noll, I would have made about $8,000. Vida Blue and Terry Forster where no longer limited to five-figure contracts. But they didn't get their summers off.

TDog
09-20-2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
....
As a fan I could care less how much money JR makes owning the Sox. If his ownership group made another $200 million on the ballclub I wouldn't care a hoot. In my book he is only accountable for fielding a winner. I personally have been patiently waiting for him to deliver for 22 seasons... and Sox Fans in general have been waiting for 86 seasons... and it has been nothing but an endless string of excuses for front office mismanagement. In this respect Reinsdorf is no better (or worse) than any other Sox owner that has condemned this franchise and its fans.

Well put.

Viva Magglio
09-20-2003, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
With the giant OF concourse, they should have a series of statues of Past White Sox greats.

At Busch Stadium, there are small statues of St. Louis baseball greats outside of the stadium in addition to the large Stan Musial statue. The smaller statues are of Bob Gibson, Stan Musial (smaller version), Jack Buck, Lou Brock, Red Schoendist, Enos Slaughter, Dizzy Dean, Rogers Hornsby, George Sisler (St. Louis Browns great), James "Cool Papa" Bell (Negro League great), and Ozzie Smith.

Perhaps we could do something similar along the walkway between Gate 4 and Gate 3. I can think already of a bunch of Sox greats for this purpose.

:burly
"Gee, I'll probably have a statue at The Cell and The Busch."

TornLabrum
09-20-2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by TDog
In 1971, my English teacher made $14,000 a year in Munster, Ind. He wasn't a rookie. Vida Blue won the Cy Young Award pitching for the A's, who paid him $13,500, the MLB minimum the time. Terry Forster, and some others on the Sox, made $13,500 in 1971.

Baseball salaries didn't dramatically improve until free agency forced owners to pay more in the mid-1970s. When I signed my rookie teaching contract in East Chicago, Ind., in 1978, it was for about $10,500. Had I gone to work for Bishop Noll, I would have made about $8,000. Vida Blue and Terry Forster where no longer limited to five-figure contracts. But they didn't get their summers off.

Vida was a rookie, iirc, and making $5400 more than I was. And I had a longer work year.

TDog
09-21-2003, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Vida was a rookie, iirc, and making $5400 more than I was. And I had a longer work year.

Vida Blue pitched a no-hitter in 1970 and originally came up in 1969. I thought he had pitched too many innings to be classed as a rookie by 1971

I had expected you to point out that he only had to work every fourth day.

TornLabrum
09-21-2003, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by TDog
Vida Blue pitched a no-hitter in 1970 and originally came up in 1969. I thought he had pitched too many innings to be classed as a rookie by 1971

I had expected you to point out that he only had to work every fourth day.

My memory is shot.