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MisterB
09-18-2003, 09:08 PM
From Jim Callis in Ask BA (http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/columnists/askba.html) :

Joe Borchard seems to have regressed this season. Is he now more of a suspect than a prospect? With rumors that Drew Henson may be ready to give up baseball for a shot at the NFL, is it possible that Borchard may consider a similar career move?

Richard Wambach
St. Charles, Ill.

What are the reasons for Joe Borchard's struggles this season? He got off to a good start but he put up very disappointing numbers. Does he still have a shot to be the player he was projected to be?

Alex Pedicini
Cotuit, Mass.

Borchard did have a rough second stint at Triple-A Charlotte, as he hit .253/.307/.398. Not exactly what the White Sox had in mind when they handed him a record $5.3 million bonus in 2000. His batting average dropped 19 points from 2002, while his on-base percentage dipped 42 and his slugging percentage decreased by 100.

Whether he'll ever be able to tap into his considerable raw power is in doubt for one simple reason: Borchard can't control the strike zone. Pitchers know he'll chase pitches, so they don't throw him strikes. His plate discipline has eroded as he has moved up through the minors:

Year G K BB K/BB
2000 27 21 13 1.62
2001 133 158 67 2.36
2002 135 153 56 2.73
2003 130 121 32 3.78

The White Sox traded for Carl Everett to play center field, in part because Borchard wasn't ready. Few scouts see him as a legitimate center fielder anyway, which is a problem because Chicago has Carlos Lee and Magglio Ordonez to man its corners. DH? Not with both Paul Konerko and Frank Thomas around.

Though he's a switch-hitter, Borchard also has scuffled against lefthanders since reaching Triple-A. He has hit just .207 with eight homers in 241 at-bats against southpaws with Charlotte. In the majors, he has gone 5-for-25 (.200) with 13 strikeouts against lefties.

Despite all this adversity, Borchard hasn't made any noise about jumping to the NFL. Though he was once considered a potential early first-round pick as a quarterback, his transition back to the gridiron might not go as well as Henson's. Borchard started only one game and attempted just 120 passes in two years with the Stanford football team. By comparison, Henson made eight starts and threw 374 passes at Michigan.

Interesting that he makes no mention of Borchard's wrist tendonitis. Either Callis didn't know, or the injury was overplayed as the reason for Joe's poor performance.

soxtalker
09-18-2003, 09:42 PM
Can plate discipline be learned (and taught)?

THE_HOOTER
09-18-2003, 09:42 PM
How about the fact that he was overrated and he sucks?


The Sox took a chance and lost.


If he's no good now, forget about it.


He has no chance.

RichH55
09-18-2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
How about the fact that he was overrated and he sucks?


The Sox took a chance and lost.


If he's no good now, forget about it.


He has no chance.


Well that was well-reasoned :gulp: :gulp:

bc2k
09-18-2003, 11:17 PM
Great, another guy with no plate discipline who doesn't walk and goes for the homer and can't hit lefties and has no speed. The players were right, we should have spent that 5.3 million for the 2000 pennant run, not on this flop.

I believe that the Sox have something in Borchard's contract to keep him from playing football, am I right about that? Jeremy Reed, save this team.

RichH55
09-18-2003, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Great, another guy with no plate discipline who doesn't walk and goes for the homer and can't hit lefties and has no speed. The players were right, we should have spent that 5.3 million for the 2000 pennant run, not on this flop.

I believe that the Sox have something in Borchard's contract to keep him from playing football, am I right about that? Jeremy Reed, save this team.

Sometimes chances don't pan out....When he was drafted and the Sox ponied up the dough to sign him, was it bad then? LTP? Best College Power since McGwire? Great Arm? Good enough athlete to also be a D-1 QB? This doesn't sound like the type of guy you should take a chance on?

Easy to pick apart moves that don't work, but this was built on a solid foundation, and if money was no object he would have been a top 5 pick and we got him at like 12, so I don't see what the problem with the move was?

Daver
09-18-2003, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Can plate discipline be learned (and taught)?

Yes it can.

Greg Walker,and for that matter Gregg Ritchie,have had a lot of success in teaching the recoginition of the strike zone.

The master of teaching the strike zone might have been Walt Hriniak though,the hitters that comitted to his style have always had very good plate recognition,the downside is few of them could master the stroke and focus that he preached.

bc2k
09-18-2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Sometimes chances don't pan out....When he was drafted and the Sox ponied up the dough to sign him, was it bad then? LTP? Best College Power since McGwire? Great Arm? Good enough athlete to also be a D-1 QB? This doesn't sound like the type of guy you should take a chance on?

Easy to pick apart moves that don't work, but this was built on a solid foundation, and if money was no object he would have been a top 5 pick and we got him at like 12, so I don't see what the problem with the move was?

I don't have the knowledge to say it was a good signing at the time. I did not scout him, did not see him even play one game on television.

Like you said, I was aware of his great arm and power but I think the Sox knew at the time he was not "a good enough athlete" to play a good center field. The Sox knew at the time that he was not a true center fielder and his speed wasn't a plus. So that means he is a power hitting corner outfielder with a plus arm.

What would separate Borchard from any other corner outfielder with power? Command of the strike zone? Speed? Low strikeout total for a man with such power? RBI machine? I'm not asking those sarcastically, but truthfully. Did Borchard show any of these abilities in college? Or did the Sox plan on grooming him into stardom?

If he didn't posess these abilities in college, what made the Sox feel that he would posess them at the highest level: MLB? What made the Sox think that Borchard would become anything more than a plus corner outfielder? What made the Sox take him with their first pick of the draft?

Daver
09-18-2003, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
I don't have the knowledge to say it was a good signing at the time. I did not scout him, did not see him even play one game on television.

Like you said, I was aware of his great arm and power but I think the Sox knew at the time he was not "a good enough athlete" to play a good center field. The Sox knew at the time that he was not a true center fielder and his speed wasn't a plus. So that means he is a power hitting corner outfielder with a plus arm.



Borchard may be the best all around athlete in the Sox system.His speed is second to one player in the whole system,and the he can play CF,as well as be a power hitter from both sides of the plate.

There will be a rundown of the top prospects in the system on the main page in a week or so.

LASOXFAN
09-19-2003, 12:47 AM
He lacks plate discipline??

Then what the hell is he doing rotting in the minors?? He would fit right in on the South Side, bring him up already!!


THIS TEAM BLOWS!!!

bc2k
09-19-2003, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by Daver
Borchard may be the best all around athlete in the Sox system.His speed is second to one player in the whole system,and the he can play CF,as well as be a power hitter from both sides of the plate.

There will be a rundown of the top prospects in the system on the main page in a week or so.

Can Borchard play center field well?

MisterB
09-19-2003, 01:43 AM
It's the inherent danger with 'tools' prospects. They have obvious physical talent, and you just hope they'll actually learn the skills required to capitalize on that talent. Mike Cameron was a tools prospect, but he didn't actually start getting the skills together until he got to Cincinnati at age 26. If Borchard eventually does learn those skills, we can only hope he'll be in a White Sox uniform when it happens.

jeremyb1
09-19-2003, 02:15 AM
If you ask Billy Beane - a guy who is pretty focused on plate discipline - plate discipline cannot be learned. I was skeptical at first but look at what happened to Carlos after his ultra disciplined second half last season. In Moneyball, they demonstrate how the A's have statistics measuring the amount of pitches outside the zone swung at by their pitches and the players that lacked plate discipline coming into the organization especially Tejada swing at the most pitches outside the zone.

Hullett_Fan
09-19-2003, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
He lacks plate discipline??

Then what the hell is he doing rotting in the minors?? He would fit right in on the South Side, bring him up already!!


THIS TEAM BLOWS!!!


*****!!! :D:

RichH55
09-19-2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
I don't have the knowledge to say it was a good signing at the time. I did not scout him, did not see him even play one game on television.

Like you said, I was aware of his great arm and power but I think the Sox knew at the time he was not "a good enough athlete" to play a good center field. The Sox knew at the time that he was not a true center fielder and his speed wasn't a plus. So that means he is a power hitting corner outfielder with a plus arm.

What would separate Borchard from any other corner outfielder with power? Command of the strike zone? Speed? Low strikeout total for a man with such power? RBI machine? I'm not asking those sarcastically, but truthfully. Did Borchard show any of these abilities in college? Or did the Sox plan on grooming him into stardom?

If he didn't posess these abilities in college, what made the Sox feel that he would posess them at the highest level: MLB? What made the Sox think that Borchard would become anything more than a plus corner outfielder? What made the Sox take him with their first pick of the draft?

bc2k....In addition to Daver's post(has alot of good info).....Joe was said to have the best college power since Mark McGwire...that says alot....worse case is poor average and bad OBP...but even then people were assuming at least 40 HR a year