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RichH55
09-18-2003, 09:34 PM
Reading many posts over the last few days, the fact remains....we need to deal Paulie

He gives a good soundbite, and produces decent numbers(sans the 1st half), but he is close to albatross status.....

So I pose the question....Where can we send him?

Steve Bartman
09-18-2003, 09:37 PM
Charlotte

RichH55
09-18-2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by Cubsloseagain911
Charlotte

No two way contract here my friend......Someone needs to see something in him....The Padres?

Steve Bartman
09-18-2003, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
No two way contract here my friend......Someone needs to see something in him....The Padres?

That would actually be a good fit for him. The Padres are expanding payroll and I'm guessing would rather have P.K. than Klesko.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-18-2003, 09:43 PM
Baltimore is just dumb enough to go for it.

voodoochile
09-18-2003, 09:52 PM
Is Gord Ash a GM somewhere?

RichH55
09-18-2003, 10:06 PM
1st Half not withstanding....Paulie isnt a bad player

Overpaid? Yes, even at peak production....but I'm guessing there are more than a few teams out there that could "see" something in Paul?

Padres, Baltimore,LA even TB come to mind....especially if the Sox aren't asking for the moon in return

That would move Frank to 1B, and C. Lee to DH....Reed and Borchard come up...payroll has alot more flexibility...You still have questions at 2B and SS and Pitching(Always pitching questions), but you have more ways to answer those questions

I just can't stress how important it is to find a taker for Paulie

MRKARNO
09-18-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Lee to DH


I dont know about you but the Carlos Lee I saw in the outfield this year was at least league average, if not above average

RichH55
09-19-2003, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I dont know about you but the Carlos Lee I saw in the outfield this year was at least league average, if not above average


While I tend to agree with you, I think that Lee would not be one of the top 3 defensive OF types we would play everyday, and the thread assumes no Konerko, so Thomas is at 1B.

That leaves DH for Lee....Do you think he is better defensively than the alternatives out there?

shane
09-19-2003, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
While I tend to agree with you, I think that Lee would not be one of the top 3 defensive OF types we would play everyday, and the thread assumes no Konerko, so Thomas is at 1B.

That leaves DH for Lee....Do you think he is better defensively than the alternatives out there?

I thought he was amazing this year. I would try to keep Everett for another year and DH him.

FanOf14
09-19-2003, 09:36 AM
What about the dodgers (after all he started with them)? They have Fred McGriff and he has been no better than PK this year and wasn't much last year and chances are that PK will be back to normal last year (I still say it was getting engaged that screwed him up, but what the heck do I know).

Hullett_Fan
09-19-2003, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by shane
I thought he was amazing this year. I would try to keep Everett for another year and DH him.


Agreed. Trade Paul, Thomas to first, Everett to DH and Juan Pierre in CF .

gosox41
09-19-2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
Reading many posts over the last few days, the fact remains....we need to deal Paulie

He gives a good soundbite, and produces decent numbers(sans the 1st half), but he is close to albatross status.....

So I pose the question....Where can we send him?

I've been saying this since the day we was signed last November.

I was in a very select minority. Good to see others coming around to this thought...too bad it's a year and $16 mill. too late.

:D:

Bob

RichH55
09-19-2003, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Hullett_Fan
Agreed. Trade Paul, Thomas to first, Everett to DH and Juan Pierre in CF .

Why Juan Pierre? This isn't fantasy baseball we are playing

RichH55
09-19-2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by shane
I thought he was amazing this year. I would try to keep Everett for another year and DH him.

How much would you pay for Carl......he isnt coming all that cheap and OF/DH are where guys like Reed and Borchard project and those are the most major league ready hitters in the system

jabrch
09-19-2003, 05:04 PM
Come on...this isn't realistic.

The Padres just added Giles. They like Klesko. They aren't going to take Paul Konerko's dog of a contract without giving us one back. And the Dodgers wouldn't add payroll this year when they were in a race, why do we think we will be able to get them to do it next year? You want Todd Hundley's contract for him? I don't think so... Baltimore has enough guys just like PK. They don't need another one for a ton of $. They want to bid on a SS, SP and on Pudge, not on Konerko.

I'd love to see Konerko moved, but I don't believe Kenny will be able to do it...

shane
09-19-2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Why Juan Pierre? This isn't fantasy baseball we are playing

Speaking of fantasy SBs, I like Carl Crawford of TB. Young, power potential and will only improve with age. I think he would be great in the 2 spot.

RKMeibalane
09-19-2003, 05:06 PM
Aubu Dabi

RichH55
09-19-2003, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Come on...this isn't realistic.

The Padres just added Giles. They like Klesko. They aren't going to take Paul Konerko's dog of a contract without giving us one back. And the Dodgers wouldn't add payroll this year when they were in a race, why do we think we will be able to get them to do it next year? You want Todd Hundley's contract for him? I don't think so... Baltimore has enough guys just like PK. They don't need another one for a ton of $. They want to bid on a SS, SP and on Pudge, not on Konerko.

I'd love to see Konerko moved, but I don't believe Kenny will be able to do it...

Of course the Dodgers took on Hundley's deal no? And Paul has hit over the 2nd Half of the season. Who does Baltimore have like PK? And the Padres we talking about adding Kendall as well, who has an even worse contract than PK......And I named like 4-5 teams off the top of my head....So why is it unrealistic to be able to move him, in light of the fact he is hitting again

MRKARNO
09-19-2003, 07:12 PM
If Konerko's traded, his inflated contract goes from 8 mil to 8.5 mil for next year and I believe to 9 mil in 2005

Win1ForMe
09-19-2003, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Come on...this isn't realistic.

The Padres just added Giles. They like Klesko. They aren't going to take Paul Konerko's dog of a contract without giving us one back. And the Dodgers wouldn't add payroll this year when they were in a race, why do we think we will be able to get them to do it next year? You want Todd Hundley's contract for him? I don't think so... Baltimore has enough guys just like PK. They don't need another one for a ton of $. They want to bid on a SS, SP and on Pudge, not on Konerko.

I'd love to see Konerko moved, but I don't believe Kenny will be able to do it...

I think Konerko can be moved provided it's to a big market team with some payroll flexibility. The Dodgers were pretty much desparate for offense (they signed McGriff to $4 mil in the off-season and traded for Burnitz at the deadline). The Sox might need to add a prospect and assume some of the contract but there's a team that might bite.

If I'm not mistaken, Baltimore would have taken Konerko at the deadline with Joe Crede for Ponson. This was before Konerko's "hot" 2nd half and we would be getting some actual value in return with Ponson. We'd pretty much be giving him away this time. There's no guarantee that Baltimore actually lands any impact free agents so they might be able to take Konerko off our hands.

HITMEN OF 77
09-19-2003, 08:38 PM
I'd like to see Paulie stay. If we are getting rid of anyone, I'd vote Rowand off the island. Keep Everett, he can do things for this club and he knows his spot on the team.

RichH55
09-19-2003, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by HITMEN OF 77
I'd like to see Paulie stay. If we are getting rid of anyone, I'd vote Rowand off the island. Keep Everett, he can do things for this club and he knows his spot on the team.

All things being equal you might be right.....However, Carl -Wrong side of 30, history of injuries, his best year in the last 3 just happens to be a contract year? Not so much

Rowand is a 4th OF, no reason to get rid of him

Paulie....they are 8 million reasons why he needs to be gone

voodoochile
09-20-2003, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by HITMEN OF 77
I'd like to see Paulie stay. If we are getting rid of anyone, I'd vote Rowand off the island. Keep Everett, he can do things for this club and he knows his spot on the team.

Rowand is dirt cheap and no better than a 4th OF on most teams. What are the Sox going to get for him and how does it help the payroll situation.

Paulie is the one who has to go if they can.

Deadguy
09-22-2003, 02:18 PM
I'd love to see him gone, but nobody wants him, or his contract.


We're talking about a guy who two other organizations already gave up on.

We're talking about a guy who hit in the 180s for half a season, with just 3 homeruns.

We're talking about a guy who is notorious for disappearing for at least one month a season.

We're talking about the slowest guy in baseball.

We're talking about a 1st baseman who has had just 1 .300 season, 1 100 RBI season, and 1 30 homerun season.

If you were the GM of any team, how could you possibly justify taking this guy, unless it was to unload another high priced underachiever? He is 27 right now, not 22. In the past, some could argue that the potential to break out was still there, but there is little hope left for Konerko.

Deadguy
09-22-2003, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
\ Who does Baltimore have like PK?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6635

KingXerxes
09-22-2003, 03:04 PM
I suspect not too many people are going to agree with me here, but I tend to want to trade players who I think are only going to have worse years, and keep those who I think are only going to have better years. That all being said, I wouldn't rush to trade Konerko - you're not going to get anything for him, and he really has nowhere to go but up. I would seriously consider trading Esteban Loiaza though. I really don't think he's ever going to have a year like he had this year, he's relatively inexpensive and I'm certain some teams would line up to try and get him with some top notch talent. Also I think Ordonez - while a great player - is simply too expensive at $14mm to hang onto.

If the White Sox went in to the winter meetings dangling Loiaza and Ordonez - I suspect they could get some pretty good pitching to shore up what I think is going to be a very shaking starting rotation next year (assuming they don't keep Colon). Carlos Lee has come into his own finally, so - while you would miss Ordonez's offense - you could probably survive his absence. Also, they'd have freed up about $17.5 million in payroll, and could add where needed (shortstop, closer).

Just my opinion.

Bobby Thigpen
09-22-2003, 03:17 PM
While Pauly is my favorite player, I would have to agree that if one player has to go for the Sox to be able to afford to hold the rest of the team together it would have to be Pauly. I think that he can still be, and will be, a productive hitter in the majors, but perhaps it would be best for him and the Sox. If they're going to keep Thomas, and they seem like they are going to, the only way to keep guys like Valentin, Alomar, etc is to jettison some salary and Pauly's is a big chunk of salary. I just don't think anyone is going to take it on without some sort of Karros/Hundley mutual dumping. If they end up just trading salaries I would say hang on to Pauly.

By the way I think there are going to be better pitchers available than Colon. I think it would be a much better idea to sign 2 decent starters than it would be to sign one overpriced one like Colon is about to be.

soxtalker
09-22-2003, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I suspect not too many people are going to agree with me here, but I tend to want to trade players who I think are only going to have worse years, and keep those who I think are only going to have better years. That all being said, I wouldn't rush to trade Konerko - you're not going to get anything for him, and he really has nowhere to go but up. I would seriously consider trading Esteban Loiaza though. I really don't think he's ever going to have a year like he had this year, he's relatively inexpensive and I'm certain some teams would line up to try and get him with some top notch talent. Also I think Ordonez - while a great player - is simply too expensive at $14mm to hang onto.

If the White Sox went in to the winter meetings dangling Loiaza and Ordonez - I suspect they could get some pretty good pitching to shore up what I think is going to be a very shaking starting rotation next year (assuming they don't keep Colon). Carlos Lee has come into his own finally, so - while you would miss Ordonez's offense - you could probably survive his absence. Also, they'd have freed up about $17.5 million in payroll, and could add where needed (shortstop, closer).

Just my opinion.

I'll be one of the few who will agree with you at least in part. My impression of the general consensus on the board is that we should keep the players who have done well and trade away those who haven't. Sell low and buy high doesn't sound like a great strategy to me.

I think that there are a lot of possibilities for KW. Much depends on what the FA market is like this winter -- high or low prices.

daveeym
09-22-2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
1st Half not withstanding....Paulie isnt a bad player

Overpaid? Yes, even at peak production....but I'm guessing there are more than a few teams out there that could "see" something in Paul?

Padres, Baltimore,LA even TB come to mind....especially if the Sox aren't asking for the moon in return

That would move Frank to 1B, and C. Lee to DH....Reed and Borchard come up...payroll has alot more flexibility...You still have questions at 2B and SS and Pitching(Always pitching questions), but you have more ways to answer those questions

I just can't stress how important it is to find a taker for Paulie

Why would you want Carlos to be a DH? So for the next 4 years we can have discussions about how Carlos hit's better when he's playing the field? So you can piss him off after all the effort he's done to silence the critics and become a better outfielder when he's been an infielder all his life until the sox got a hold of him?

RichH55
09-22-2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6635


Gibbons is more of a OF IMO...though I know he played alot of time at 1B as well....They are so loaded that they couldnt more Mora back to SS? Or put Paulie at DH? Or any number of things, especially with Surhoff gone?

RichH55
09-22-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by daveeym
Why would you want Carlos to be a DH? So for the next 4 years we can have discussions about how Carlos hit's better when he's playing the field? So you can piss him off after all the effort he's done to silence the critics and become a better outfielder when he's been an infielder all his life until the sox got a hold of him?

The reason you hear that discussion with Frank is because there are huge splits.....if I see the same thing with Carlos, that would change my mind, but I don't see that being the case.

Its about helping the club win....With Frank at 1B under this scenario, then someone needs to DH....Carlos would seem like the best option, especially since though he is vastly improved I think he would not be one of our best 3 defensive options

RichH55
09-22-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
I'll be one of the few who will agree with you at least in part. My impression of the general consensus on the board is that we should keep the players who have done well and trade away those who haven't. Sell low and buy high doesn't sound like a great strategy to me.

I think that there are a lot of possibilities for KW. Much depends on what the FA market is like this winter -- high or low prices.


Part of the premisis is that PK is overpaid even at peak production, so well in general I agree with the buy low, sell high....sometimes that doesn't apply and with Paul's strong 2nd Half, he's no longer at bottom value, but his contract is a killer

NewyorkSoxFan
09-22-2003, 06:45 PM
I know this might draw the ire of many, but I think that its time for the Sox to let Big Frank go. I really felt this way last year, but I think its time to change the dynamics of the team. Some power but more speed and defense.

Frank who is also on the wrong side of 30 is a commodity we already have in Lee, Maggs, PK, etc. I really don't want to see Frank back at first base, he may hit better but he is a liability defensively, and that puts pressure on the defense and pitcher.

Don't get me wrong I like Frank, but at some point we have to make a choice we can't keep having guys going 1 for 20 in series b/c they all swing for the fences and don't know how to do anything else. I think Franks statement about going for homeruns really sealed his fate b/c pitchers take note of that stuff and as a result I think it hurt him on his approach at the plate and how pitchers pitch him.

KW really has to be creative to tweak without tearing it up. Because this team is I think with a few moves could be on the cusp of something. Call me crazy but, a few changes in people, managers and coaches could make this team really hungry going into 2004.

NYSF

Daver
09-22-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan


Frank who is also on the wrong side of 30 is a commodity we already have in Lee, Maggs, PK, etc.


Frank is the only one of those four that is over thirty years old.

And to add a comparison,Barry Bonds is 39,would you be happy with his production?

LauraJ14
09-22-2003, 06:53 PM
Why does everyone want to see Frank Thomas play first base?
Yes, I know its because he hits better there, but if he's swinging for the fences anyway hows the average going to go up?
I think he is horrible there and don't want a whole season of watching that again.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-22-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by LauraJ14
...I think he is horrible there and don't want a whole season of watching that again.

The 2 weeks Thomas played first base were the best and most unexpected of the season. Up until then the offense couldn't punch its way out of a paper bag-- and that includes the double-play machines hitting #4 and #5 behind him. God only knows where the '03 Sox would have finished if Frank Thomas doesn't spark the offense last spring.

Just my opinion of course...

NewyorkSoxFan
09-22-2003, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Frank is the only one of those four that is over thirty years old.

And to add a comparison,Barry Bonds is 39,would you be happy with his production?

Someone earlier mentioned that keeping Carl was iffy b/c he was"on the wrong side of 30". So Frank would be the only one in the group I mentioned making him one who could possibly be left out.

As far as Bonds their is no comparison, I haven't looked up any stats, but I'm sure you have. The only comparison might be in walks and obs over the last 5 yrs outside of that I don't thinks its even close. Barry Bonds is a very rare player, obviously so to be putting these numbers up at 39. Frank will be about 350lbs and living in AL when he is 39. So lets end the comparison right there.

NYSF

RKMeibalane
09-22-2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by LauraJ14
Why does everyone want to see Frank Thomas play first base?
Yes, I know its because he hits better there, but if he's swinging for the fences anyway hows the average going to go up?
I think he is horrible there and don't want a whole season of watching that again.

Part of the reason for Frank's effort to swing for the fences was because of the fact that he didn't feel he could for a high enough average when playing as the DH, so he decided to focus more on hitting for power.

Just wait and see. If he plays first base more often, his batting average will go up. We have six years of data to support this assertion.

Believe me. If Frank is posting Ted Williams-like numbers anytime soon, I don't think anyone here will be complaining. The only person who seems to have a problem with Frank's success is Jerry Manuel, and he will be gone after this week.

RKMeibalane
09-22-2003, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
The 2 weeks Thomas played first base were the best and most unexpected of the season. Up until then the offense couldn't punch its way out of a paper bag-- and that includes the double-play machines hitting #4 and #5 behind him. God only knows where the '03 Sox would have finished if Frank Thomas doesn't spark the offense last spring.

Just my opinion of course...

I think the Frank-haters have completely blocked June and August out of their minds so they have an excuse to chase Frank out of town.

LauraJ14
09-23-2003, 12:36 AM
Sorry but I have watched this entire season and the best stretch of the season was after the All-Star break when Frank was the DH not playing first. The Sox went 10-8 in interleague play where Frank was at 1st most of the time.
I am just not buying the whole Frank back at first theory is going to make the Sox better or Frank will hit better once JM is gone.
I know that I am beating a dead horse here but I guess I am tired of the whole Frank Thomas debate. Maybe I want the Sox to win and I don't see it happening with Thomas in his current form.

jabrch
09-23-2003, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I think the Frank-haters have completely blocked June and August out of their minds so they have an excuse to chase Frank out of town.

There are no Frank-Haters. There are only people who say that if Frank does not accept the 6MM that he has an option to take, that the 10MM swing to keep him will not be sensible given our most likely budgetary constraints. If you tell me that I have a choice - Frank or no Frank - and that that's it, of course I'll take Frank. Now if you tell me I can have Frank and Danny Wright as my 4th SP or David Ortiz (or any other 1-2MM guy) and Bartolo Colon or even Sidney Ponson, I tell you that this team needs the pitching more than the hitting.

If we lose Colon next year and are not able to replace him, we will have some real SP problems.

voodoochile
09-23-2003, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
There are no Frank-Haters. There are only people who say that if Frank does not accept the 6MM that he has an option to take, that the 10MM swing to keep him will not be sensible given our most likely budgetary constraints. If you tell me that I have a choice - Frank or no Frank - and that that's it, of course I'll take Frank. Now if you tell me I can have Frank and Danny Wright as my 4th SP or David Ortiz (or any other 1-2MM guy) and Bartolo Colon or even Sidney Ponson, I tell you that this team needs the pitching more than the hitting.

If we lose Colon next year and are not able to replace him, we will have some real SP problems.

I just read an article in the Sun-Times which implies that the 2M buyout is not automatic if they both decline their options. I guess the contract would be void, but the Sox would still own his rights. So, Frank could theoretically leave it in their hands by turning down his option and then refusing his FA option and seeing what happened. I don't know how this is all covered in the contract.

Maybe Frank can turn down their option if he pays the buyout, but if they don't pick up their option, he is just a FA anyway.

I cannot believe that the Sox can just turn down their option and then expect Frank to pay them $2M. There has to be more to it than that. No way he would sign that contract, and no decent agent would let him...

Paulwny
09-23-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


I cannot believe that the Sox can just turn down their option and then expect Frank to pay them $2M. There has to be more to it than that. No way he would sign that contract, and no decent agent would let him...

What kind of agent would allow a player to sign a contract which contains a diminishing skills clause?

voodoochile
09-23-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
What kind of agent would allow a player to sign a contract which contains a diminishing skills clause?

The one who died before that clause was invoked. Also the same one who told Frank not to sign it.

Paulwny
09-23-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The one who died before that clause was invoked. Also the same one who told Frank not to sign it.

Ah, I thought Frank signed the contract before "what's his name"died.

jabrch
09-23-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
What kind of agent would allow a player to sign a contract which contains a diminishing skills clause?


We have to remember that the diminshed skills clause, at the time, seemed horribly unrealistic that he would ever meet those criteria. I forget what they were, but he either had to be an allstar, win a silver slugger, be top 10 in MVP voting or something else. These are things that he did for so many years in a row that it was ridiculous to think that he might not unless he had a career ending injury - in which case he'd have insurance to cover him. The fact that he had a bad, but not career ending injury wasn't taken into account.

I don't think we will see too many stars sign contracts like this in the future.

voodoochile
09-23-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
We have to remember that the diminshed skills clause, at the time, seemed horribly unrealistic that he would ever meet those criteria. I forget what they were, but he either had to be an allstar, win a silver slugger, be top 10 in MVP voting or something else. These are things that he did for so many years in a row that it was ridiculous to think that he might not unless he had a career ending injury - in which case he'd have insurance to cover him. The fact that he had a bad, but not career ending injury wasn't taken into account.

I don't think we will see too many stars sign contracts like this in the future.

Frank's the only player I have ever heard of signing one, so you are probably correct.

jabrch
09-23-2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Just wait and see. If he plays first base more often, his batting average will go up. We have six years of data to support this assertion.


Can someone explain to me why there would be such a difference in Frank's hitting between playing 1B and DHing? Serious question...I know the stats...that's not what I am asking...I am asking why?

I DHd a 12 inch softball doubleheader on Sunday and ripped the crap out of the ball. I may just DH again...I enjoyed it. OK, so a beer league is very different than MLB, I know...but why are people so convinced that he would be a much better hitter if he played 1B? Why would one be a better hitter if they played the field?

voodoochile
09-23-2003, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Can someone explain to me why there would be such a difference in Frank's hitting between playing 1B and DHing? Serious question...I know the stats...that's not what I am asking...I am asking why?

I DHd a 12 inch softball doubleheader on Sunday and ripped the crap out of the ball. I may just DH again...I enjoyed it. OK, so a beer league is very different than MLB, I know...but why are people so convinced that he would be a much better hitter if he played 1B? Why would one be a better hitter if they played the field?

Maybe it has to do with him staying loose. Maybe it has to do with him being more involved in the game. Maybe it has to do with him not spending so much time dwelling on the last borderline call he didn't get (just an example, not trying to imply anything).

KingXerxes
09-23-2003, 02:47 PM
When I was a little kid, I dreaded the Ed Sullivan Show. Not because of Ed Sullivan or any of his guests, but because I knew that the start of his show meant the weekend was just about over, I would have to go to bed, and the next morning I'd have to get up and walk to school. To this day I get the same weird feeling on Sunday Nights (even though I haven't been in a classroom for years).

Now let's say I was a major league baseball player, and it was discovered that on Sunday Nights I hit .200 below my major league average. Nobody in the world would ever be able to make the connection from Ed Sullivan to my reduced average - but it would exist just the same.

The same goes for Frank Thomas and first base. Who knows why he hits better when at first? But he does. That should be enough to keep trotting him out there - it's an intangible.

Paulwny
09-23-2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Can someone explain to me why there would be such a difference in Frank's hitting between playing 1B and DHing? Serious question...I know the stats...that's not what I am asking...I am asking why?

I DHd a 12 inch softball doubleheader on Sunday and ripped the crap out of the ball. I may just DH again...I enjoyed it. OK, so a beer league is very different than MLB, I know...but why are people so convinced that he would be a much better hitter if he played 1B? Why would one be a better hitter if they played the field?

One idea is that he's sitting in the dugout over thinking his hitting vs being on the field concentrating on the game.

idseer
09-23-2003, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
One idea is that he's sitting in the dugout over thinking his hitting vs being on the field concentrating on the game.


perhaps jm's snoring bothers him?

PaleHoseGeorge
09-23-2003, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
One idea is that he's sitting in the dugout over thinking his hitting vs being on the field concentrating on the game.

Frank also seems to do better hitting at home vs. on the road, in spite of the fact that the Cell is far more favorable to the pitchers than most other A.L. ballparks.

When playing at home, Frank can review videotape of his swing, get some practice in the batting cage, and make adjustments. On the road he is basically stuck on the bench or left to contemplate his navel inside the visitors clubhouse.

Frank himself wanted to play first base on the last swing through Anaheim and Texas, stated the reasons noted above for the MLB reporter at whitesox.com, and was promptly shot down by his manager with the "nothing short of an emergency" comment about ever using Frank at first base again. This is a prime example of why Jerry Manuel is soon to be the ex-manager of the Sox.

We can label all of these intangibles, but I think we can all imagine some fairly good reasons for explaining this phenomenon that stretches all the way back to when Frank was putting up MVP seasons in the early-90's.

RichH55
09-23-2003, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Can someone explain to me why there would be such a difference in Frank's hitting between playing 1B and DHing? Serious question...I know the stats...that's not what I am asking...I am asking why?

I DHd a 12 inch softball doubleheader on Sunday and ripped the crap out of the ball. I may just DH again...I enjoyed it. OK, so a beer league is very different than MLB, I know...but why are people so convinced that he would be a much better hitter if he played 1B? Why would one be a better hitter if they played the field?

Truthfully? Mostly a mental thing....psycosomatic...call it what you will. In sports the difference between great, good and medicore is such a fine line that every "little" thing, especially in regards to confidence matters(and especially with Big Frank)

Look how well he did when using the alumunum bat....I don't think that really did anything to his swing, but it put Frank in the right mindset, and when a guy is as talented as Frank, sometimes that is all you need.

hold2dibber
09-23-2003, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Can someone explain to me why there would be such a difference in Frank's hitting between playing 1B and DHing? Serious question...I know the stats...that's not what I am asking...I am asking why?


I've used the analogy before and I'll use it again. Frank is like the Nuke LaLoosh character in Bull Durham. The more he thinks, the worse he does. And when he DHs, he has more time to think. That man should be wearing a garter belt and breathing through his eyelids every game. While playing 1B.

Daver
09-23-2003, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The one who died before that clause was invoked. Also the same one who told Frank not to sign it.

Jerry Reinsdorf himself told Frank not to sign that contract.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-23-2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Jerry Reinsdorf himself told Frank not to sign that contract.

Yep, because the other one on his desk only paid Frank $2 million per year. :smile:

<rim shot>

Thank you. I'll be here all week!

StillMissOzzie
09-24-2003, 01:18 AM
If it's a money choice between Konerko & Ordonez, I'd keep Maggs. It just seems to me that he's got more upside potential yet, while we've seen the best (and worst?) of Konerko already.

If the Scrubs could find someone - anyone - to take big $$$ bust Todd Hundley off their hands, then there must be someone who'd take a chance on Konerko. However, it would probably be for a bunch of prospects. Didn't we flush out our minor league system with the trades for Everett, R Alomar, Schoenweiss, & Sullivan?

Otherwise, I think the Sox would be forced to pony up some $$$ to a Konerko taker.

SMO
:gulp:

VeeckAsInWreck
09-24-2003, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by StillMissOzzie
Otherwise, I think the Sox would be forced to pony up some $$$ to a Konerko taker.

Nah, Konerko has plenty of upside, he had a bad year but that doesn't mean that he won't rebound next year. There will be teams that want him, if we do make a deal, I hope it is for a solid SP or a speedy CF .

RichH55
09-24-2003, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
Nah, Konerko has plenty of upside, he had a bad year but that doesn't mean that he won't rebound next year. There will be teams that want him, if we do make a deal, I hope it is for a solid SP or a speedy CF .

I think we can get a somewhat overpaid 3rd or 4th Starter for him, barring insanity.....For some reason (if he isn't hurt) Kevin Jarvis keeps popping to mind

jabrch
09-24-2003, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by StillMissOzzie
If the Scrubs could find someone - anyone - to take big $$$ bust Todd Hundley off their hands, then there must be someone who'd take a chance on Konerko. However, it would probably be for a bunch of prospects. Didn't we flush out our minor league system with the trades for Everett, R Alomar, Schoenweiss, & Sullivan?

Otherwise, I think the Sox would be forced to pony up some $$$ to a Konerko taker.



1) Dodgers dumped 13 million in salary on the Cubs for 8mm of Hundley. It wasn't expeceted by anyone that either Grudz or Karros would start - that was dumb cubbie luck.

2) For a bunch of pospects? No way... No team is going to give us prospects for Konerko. We will likely have to give up prospects with Konerko for nothing.

3) We have plenty left in the minors.

4) The sox, if they move Konerko, would likely either have to fork over a good chunk of his 8mm or take on someone elses deadweight and hope they can turn it around in Chicago like the Cubs did with Grudz/Karros.