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View Full Version : Winning on a budget - SS, 2B options


jeremyb1
09-18-2003, 04:34 PM
I discussed how Theo Epstein was easily able to find cheap, underrated productive players in the offseason that catapulted his team to the playoffs. If you look at the stats for some SS/2B options, its clear that it wouldn't be that hard for KW to make similar moves under a budget to fill what figures to be two of our biggest holes this offseason.

Jolbert Cabrerra - 30 year old career journeyman hast posted a solid .780 OPS for the Dodgers after being given regular playing time for one of the first times in his career. His career stats aren't pretty but he never had more than 280 at bats in his career prior to this season so its possible he just needed regular playing time.

Keith Ginter - 27 year old that is still under contract with the Brewers and receives regular playing time. He sports a nice .800 OPS but he may be undervalued due to his intially unimpressive .260 average and 13 home runs.

Tony Graffanino - Graff features an OPS .080 points better than Alomar's and would obviously come much cheaper. His inefficiency against righties poses a problem but finding a cheap platoon partner shouldn't be that difficult.

Win1ForMe
09-18-2003, 05:07 PM
I agree that we can certainly find cheap players to fill our needs although I'm not sure about the first two guys you listed. Boston was able to find ALREADY proven players for cheap and not cheap player who proved to be good. I'm betting there will be a number of good players available for cheap in January.

What's your opinion on Eckstein? He'll be available if the Angels go after Tejada/Matsui...

pudge
09-18-2003, 05:15 PM
If defense is our concern at 2B, didn't Willie Harris play pretty solid D there? I know he can't hit worth jack, but Alomar has not exactly impressed me with the bat, either. What is the general opinion on Willie?

mike squires
09-18-2003, 05:17 PM
I thin Graffy would choke if played everyday. He is pretty much a carreer utility. We could try but I think he would put up Ozzie Guillen type stats... .230, .240 but good clutch man and good with the glove.

Foulke You
09-18-2003, 05:42 PM
I hope there is room in your winning on a budget for this guy:
:bcolon

jeremyb1
09-18-2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by mike squires
I thin Graffy would choke if played everyday. He is pretty much a carreer utility. We could try but I think he would put up Ozzie Guillen type stats... .230, .240 but good clutch man and good with the glove.

Yeah, I think he'd need to platoon. His stats against righties are not easy on the eyes.

jeremyb1
09-18-2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
I agree that we can certainly find cheap players to fill our needs although I'm not sure about the first two guys you listed. Boston was able to find ALREADY proven players for cheap and not cheap player who proved to be good. I'm betting there will be a number of good players available for cheap in January.

What's your opinion on Eckstein? He'll be available if the Angels go after Tejada/Matsui...

Those guys are more or less deep sleepers with the exception of Ginter in my opinion. He's still young and his stats simply aren't eyepopping but are still really solid. There are more established guys like Orlando Cabrera that could come relatively cheap and put up really big numbers. Eckstein definitely fits the bill of a guy who could come cheap and put up decent numbers. He's not as good as Orlando Cabrera or Ginter but he's solid if he doesn't struggle like he did this season.

RichH55
09-18-2003, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Those guys are more or less deep sleepers with the exception of Ginter in my opinion. He's still young and his stats simply aren't eyepopping but are still really solid. There are more established guys like Orlando Cabrera that could come relatively cheap and put up really big numbers. Eckstein definitely fits the bill of a guy who could come cheap and put up decent numbers. He's not as good as Orlando Cabrera or Ginter but he's solid if he doesn't struggle like he did this season.

Ahhh...Montreal, a mine that has yet to be fully tapped yet.....Would resigning Vlad mean that Vazquez and Cabrera would be avaible?

jeremyb1
09-18-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Ahhh...Montreal, a mine that has yet to be fully tapped yet.....Would resigning Vlad mean that Vazquez and Cabrera would be avaible?

Probably if you think there's any way they can resign Vlad.

RichH55
09-18-2003, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Probably if you think there's any way they can resign Vlad.

I think Vlad is heading to Baltimore and that Baltimore is going to be a force in 2 years...Just a hunch though....btw....Would Vlad be enough compensation to get Angelos to allow a DC franchise?

Win1ForMe
09-18-2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Those guys are more or less deep sleepers with the exception of Ginter in my opinion. He's still young and his stats simply aren't eyepopping but are still really solid. There are more established guys like Orlando Cabrera that could come relatively cheap and put up really big numbers. Eckstein definitely fits the bill of a guy who could come cheap and put up decent numbers. He's not as good as Orlando Cabrera or Ginter but he's solid if he doesn't struggle like he did this season.

Hmmm... I like Cabrera but I don't think he'll come cheaply at all. He's a $4 - $5M player. If the Expos don't offer him arbitration, I would assume there probably would be a team willing to pay him some money (Mariners, Dodgers, Angels, Orioles, etc.-- basically those that lose out on Matsui/Tejada).

Win1ForMe
09-18-2003, 08:55 PM
You know, if the Sox were smart, they would give Vlad a call this winter to see how much money he wants to sign. Then when they get that, see how much it would take to resign Maggs. If the numbers are close (about 1M to 1.5M apart) see if you can sign Vlad and then trade Maggs for a ton of prospects.

It's never going to happen because it would require some thinking. That would be a good way to really strengthen our farm system and still maintain a good core of players.

Lip Man 1
09-18-2003, 09:01 PM
From The Sporting News Page 30

Inside Dish Column...

"The Indians plan to pursue an offensive minded second baseman to compete with Brandon Phillips. Tony Graffanino is a possibility but White Sox GM Ken Williams says he is "dead set" on retaining him..."

Just FYI.

Lip

jeremyb1
09-18-2003, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
You know, if the Sox were smart, they would give Vlad a call this winter to see how much money he wants to sign. Then when they get that, see how much it would take to resign Maggs. If the numbers are close (about 1M to 1.5M apart) see if you can sign Vlad and then trade Maggs for a ton of prospects.

It's never going to happen because it would require some thinking. That would be a good way to really strengthen our farm system and still maintain a good core of players.

The problem is that if Vlad would sign in the neighborhood of 14 million, what Maggs is making next season - then Maggs' deal would be way too expensive and we'd have a hard time dealing him without paying part of his salary.

Win1ForMe
09-18-2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
The problem is that if Vlad would sign in the neighborhood of 14 million, what Maggs is making next season - then Maggs' deal would be way too expensive and we'd have a hard time dealing him without paying part of his salary.

I have to disagree with you there. Maggs is worth every penny of that $14 mil. Teams have problems dealing players who aren't worth their sallary, not franchise players like Magglio.

Think about it, if the Orioles fail to sign Guerrero or Tejada, which, for the point of this discussion they would, don't you think they'd be eager to create some excitement for their fan base by getting Magglio? Also, if they do have an interest in Guerrero and are ready to throw $14-$15 mil his way, they would have to be willing to take on Magg's contract as well.

Also, take a team like the Mets, who would love to get their hands on Vlad but probably won't because he doesn't want to play in that type of market (I guess you could make the same argument for him not playing in Chicago). I would bet they would jump at the chance of getting Ordonez and taking his sallary.