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Mammoo
09-17-2003, 01:22 PM
Last night’s loss to the Twins, in and of itself wouldn’t be considered a back breaker if not for the fact the White Sox need to run the table in order to win their division. Why? Well, the Twins have seven games remaining with the Detroit Tigers. Care to hazard a guess as to how many they’ll win? Don’t be surprised if they take all seven. So, where does that leave our local heroes?

When all the laughter dies in sorrow later this month, the White Sox can look back on this season and know exactly why they failed to win the American League Central; their inability to handle teams like Detroit and Tampa. The Pale Hose have a combined record of 14-11 versus these two juggernauts while Minnesota was a tad more successful at 17-1, with the aforementioned seven remaining with the Tigers. For all intents and purposes the season ended last week in Chicago when the Sox let Minnesota off the floor after winning the first two games of that series.

There may be some statistics that lie, but these hit you in the face with a cold truth that sinks right to your bones. All the complaints about Jerry Manuel, Jerry Reinsdorf, Mike Porzio and poor attendance get washed away like litter in a storm sewer. The White Sox players didn’t get the job done against the flotsam and jetsam of the American League. Perhaps Manuel was out managed in a few of these games but at some point raw talent must take over. It didn’t, so the Sox don’t belong in the post season.

Barring a monumental collapse of biblical proportions by the Twins, they’ll repeat as division champs. All but the most starry-eyed White Sox fans are coming to grips with that reality. :(:

CHISOXFAN13
09-17-2003, 01:33 PM
Geez, we might not even finish ahead of KC at this point.

This is unbelievable. One week ago, I was as high as I could be about this team and then now........

Hokiesox
09-17-2003, 01:38 PM
Their failure was in games 1-3. I have and will maintain until possible elimination that games 1-3 are to blame. We were 3 games back before most fans even knew the season had started.

Mammoo
09-17-2003, 01:44 PM
This really is a disappointing turn of events. You're right; it seems to have turned on a dime!!! :(:

Hangar18
09-17-2003, 02:04 PM
The SOX will/Must WIN the next 2 games, just to be able to tell their fans that The SOX plan on WINNING their remaining 10 Games to finish 1/2 game AHEAD of Minny, and WIN THE DIVISION. Does anyone realize what this means? That if the SOX dont go 12-0 to Finish the Year, were done. The dang Tigers are going to lie down and Let Minny walk all over them.
You know we are going to Lose at least One to KC. or one game to NY here. Or we'll lose one game when we finish in KC. The point is, We shouldve gone to the 4 man rotation in the MINNY series last week. Splitting with them Let the Twins Leave Chicago as they came in..........TIED for 1st. We needed a SWEEP to be 4 games AHEAD going into this series. A win against the TWINS last week had a 2 game swing. Thats How IMPORTANT that Series was....and I dont think Jerry Manuel, or some of the players realized this. At least JM will be gone for this blunder.

CHISOXFAN13
09-17-2003, 02:13 PM
Hasn't anyone noticed how Loaiza pitched before he was stricken with the flu?

Not nearly as well as the first five months. He's ot a tired arm, so I'm not sure going with a four-man rotation would have been the solution to all of our problems.

Remember, Buerhle also has a history of slowing down in September.

bc2k
09-17-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Hasn't anyone noticed how Loaiza pitched before he was stricken with the flu?

Not nearly as well as the first five months. He's ot a tired arm, so I'm not sure going with a four-man rotation would have been the solution to all of our problems.

Remember, Buerhle also has a history of slowing down in September.

Nice well thought out post there CSF13. How does Jerry not go with a 6-man rotation because he has Neal Cotts and the hungry Scott Schoenweis? Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Who wants to live and die with our best, when we can live and die with our healthiest!

CHISOXFAN13
09-17-2003, 02:53 PM
Did I ask for a 6-man rotation? Nope. But everyone on here has been clamoring for a four-man rotation. Our No. 1 pitcher all season has struggled in Septmeber and our No. 3 has never pitched well in September.

Have you watched Loaiza's last three outings? When was the last time he threw this many innings in a season?? Never.

If a four-man rotation is so successful then why do ZERO teams use it?????

Mammoo
09-17-2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Thats How IMPORTANT that Series was....and I dont think Jerry Manuel, or some of the players realized this. At least JM will be gone for this blunder.

You are sooooooooright!

That was the season, right there!

Iwritecode
09-17-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
If a four-man rotation is so successful then why do ZERO teams use it?????

Probably because most teams don't have a fifth starter that hasn't managed to win a single start yet this season. The only other option the Sox have is a rookie pitcher straight from AA.

The other reason is that most of the other division leaders have a big enough lead that they can afford to lose a game or two with their fifth starter going. The Sox can't afford to lose another game the rest of the year.

That being said, which one is really better, a rested Dan Wright or Loaiza, Colon, Burly, Garland on 3-days rest?

Anyone got a coin???

CHISOXFAN13
09-17-2003, 03:23 PM
Exactly my point.

Nobody on this board know whether a four-man would work better. Nobody.

It's just frustrated fans looking for yet another thing to bitch about, and at this point, there is no shortage on that list.

We need a win, dammit.

Hangar18
09-17-2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Exactly my point.

Nobody on this board know whether a four-man would work better. Nobody.

It's just frustrated fans looking for yet another thing to bitch about, and at this point, there is no shortage on that list.

We need a win, dammit.

Seeing that the #5 spot in the rotation has been MISERABLE as of late, and the Off Days we had in the month of September, I came to the conclusion that we'd go with our BEST 4, and see what happens.

CHISOXFAN13
09-17-2003, 03:41 PM
Hey, we are all entitled to our own opinion. That's what makes baseball the best sport, IMO. There is so much first/second guessing involved, and everyone has a different opinion on how to manage a baseball team.

shane
09-17-2003, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Exactly my point.

Nobody on this board know whether a four-man would work better. Nobody.

It's just frustrated fans looking for yet another thing to bitch about, and at this point, there is no shortage on that list.

We need a win, dammit.

I don't think it's people looking for a reason to bitch. I think it's people noticing that the 5th starter has been useless. Automatic losses are frustrating. The 4-man posts are more about mixing it up a bit and trying something different. 5-man isn't working, so why not give it a try? That isn't bitching, that's hoping for a change to put us in a better position.

LASOXFAN
09-17-2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
The point is, We shouldve gone to the 4 man rotation in the MINNY series last week. Splitting with them Let the Twins Leave Chicago as they came in..........TIED for 1st. We needed a SWEEP to be 4 games AHEAD going into this series. At least JM will be gone for this blunder.

But our 1 thru 4 pitchers pitched last week against Minny. :?:

shane
09-17-2003, 04:07 PM
Since we're talking about the 4-man rotation, here is an interesting slant I found on another site. The link to the entire thread will follow the post:

"Actually in today's game, with far less emphasis on complete games and with specialists to pitch middle relief and close, it would seem that the four man rotation would be much more in vogue now than it was 30 years ago. Heck, a starter in 1970 who started 35-40 games, completing 20 of them would have pitched very close to if not more than 300 innings. Today, a starting pitcher could start 40 games (in a four-man rotation) and pitch a "quality start" (6-7 innings) and only amass 240-250 innings."

4-Man Thread (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?threadid=7812&highlight=four%2A+rotation)

bc2k
09-17-2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Exactly my point.

Nobody on this board know whether a four-man would work better. Nobody.

It's just frustrated fans looking for yet another thing to bitch about, and at this point, there is no shortage on that list.

We need a win, dammit.

Obvioulsy we don't know how the 4-man rotation will work out. But nobody can argue that the 4-man rotation gives us the best odds at winning the most games these last two weeks. If we only use a 4-man rotation for the last two weeks, then those four pitch, what, one more game than they normally would have? But hey, you could be right, Loaiza and Buehrle max out at 32 starts with 33 starts being their breaking points.

Lip Man 1
09-17-2003, 05:15 PM
Just some numbers to add to the discussion:

The White Sox have lost 8 games to Detroit (after starting the season 4-0 and then 5-1 against them...)

The White Sox lost 3 games to Tampa Bay

The White Sox lost 4 games to Texas

The White Sox lost a game to San Diego

The White Sox also lost 8 games to Cleveland (after starting the season 4-1 against them...)

The Sox have lost three games by the score of 1-0 (twice to Detroit and once to San Diego)

The Sox have lost six games 2-1 (including one of those to detroit)

and finally the Sox have blown 10 games this season where they took a lead into the 7th inning or later and LOST.

Just FYI.

Lip

Mammoo
09-17-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Just some numbers to add to the discussion....

Lip

Doesn't sound like a playoff team to me... :(:

Hangar18
09-17-2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Just some numbers to add to the discussion:

The White Sox have lost 8 games to Detroit (after starting the season 4-0 and then 5-1 against them...)

The White Sox lost 3 games to Tampa Bay

The White Sox lost 4 games to Texas

The White Sox lost a game to San Diego

The White Sox also lost 8 games to Cleveland (after starting the season 4-1 against them...)

The Sox have lost three games by the score of 1-0 (twice to Detroit and once to San Diego)

The Sox have lost six games 2-1 (including one of those to detroit)

and finally the Sox have blown 10 games this season where they took a lead into the 7th inning or later and LOST.

Just FYI.

Lip

Dang. Those numbers are staggering. And sickening :angry: