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View Full Version : *Official* Game Thread - Sox vs. Red Sox - September 12, 2003


RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 05:14 PM
2B- Alomar
LF- Lee
DH- Thomas
RF- Ordonez
CF- Everett
1B- Konerko
SS- Valentin
3B- Crede
C- Alomar Jr.

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 05:20 PM
Going with the good lineup today I see.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by A.T. Money
Going with the good lineup today I see.

I had the same thought. Let's see if the offense is more productive now that all of the regulars are back in the lineup. I have the feeling that they will be, which makes "you know who" look even worse than he already does.

MRKARNO
09-12-2003, 05:28 PM
I would like to see this lineup because I think it could produce the big inning more frequently:

Graf
Alomar
Thomas
Ordonez
Everett
Lee
Konerko
Crede
Alomar

If lee was dropped down you'd have our hottest hitters going back to back to back. I know JM would never drop lee so far anymore but I think it would make it so our leadoff guys are 1-2 instead of just one and our power guys are solid 3-8 instead of having that hole in the lineup who is jose valentin.

I guess my only real gripe is that Jose starts over Graf, who could be a better option despite the lack of power. We have enough power as it is, we only need some people on for the power hitters

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
I would like to see this lineup because I think it could produce the big inning more frequently:

Graf
Alomar
Thomas
Ordonez
Everett
Lee
Konerko
Crede
Alomar

If lee was dropped down you'd have our hottest hitters going back to back to back. I know JM would never drop lee so far anymore but I think it would make it so our leadoff guys are 1-2 instead of just one and our power guys are solid 3-8 instead of having that hole in the lineup who is jose valentin.

I guess my only real gripe is that Jose starts over Graf, who could be a better option despite the lack of power. We have enough power as it is, we only need some people on for the power hitters

Depending on how this season turns out, Valentin may become expendable... and soon. Rumors regarding Miguel Tejada continue to hover around Sox camp. If Tejada is signed this winter, Valentin will be moved, probably to a team looking to add a veteran player in the hopes of contending next season (i.e. Los Angeles).

That aside, I don't think Graffanino is the answer at short, either this season or next. He is an excellent utility player and spot starter, but his weaknesses are exposed once he starts to see regular playing time. The Sox are extremely limited at shortstop and third base. If Crede or Valentin is injured at any point between now and the post-season, the Sox will be in real trouble, because that forces them to give Graffanino and- GULP!- Willie Harris more playing time.

Valentin should continue to start against righties. He provides power at the bottom of the order, and is capable of having big games every now and then. A player like that is important for a team looking to win a championship.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 06:01 PM
It was on this date in 1976 that Minnie Minoso became the oldest player to hit safely in a MLB game.

ma-gaga
09-12-2003, 06:02 PM
2- LF- Lee
3- DH- Thomas
4- RF- Ordonez

I wouldn't mess with this. This is scary... Let the rest of the lineup hack and scratch, these three you want protecting each other. And you keep them 2-4 to get them as many at-bats as possible in each game.

:)

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
It was on this date in 1976 that Minnie Minoso became the oldest player to hit safely in a MLB game.

The Sox have several players who have accomplished feats like that. Carlton Fisk was the oldest player to record a hit in the All Star Game, doing so in 1991, when he was forty three.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by ma-gaga
2- LF- Lee
3- DH- Thomas
4- RF- Ordonez

I wouldn't mess with this. This is scary... Let the rest of the lineup hack and scratch, these three you want protecting each other. And you keep them 2-4 to get them as many at-bats as possible in each game.

:)

I agree. The Sox need their best hitters getting as many at-bats as possible. There's no reason to move Lee down in the order. He has thrived hitting in front of Frank Thomas, so he should stay right where he is.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 06:07 PM
Why aren't they wearing the black uni's? (The first of many Johnny Cash references tonight :smile: )

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Why aren't they wearing the black uni's? (The first of many Johnny Cash references tonight :smile: )

Maybe you should ask him -------------------> :jerry

Konerkoholic
09-12-2003, 06:09 PM
I hate seeing Gabe Kapler in the lineup. Sox killer.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by Konerkoholic


Hi, Reese! :D:

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Maybe you should ask him -------------------> :jerry


:jerry

"When I use Aaron Miles to pinch hit late in a crucial game, I want him to coordinate his colors."

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Why aren't they wearing the black uni's? (The first of many Johnny Cash references tonight :smile: )

Black is thinning. They're saving them for Colon's start. :D:

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 06:15 PM
The Sox get nothing in the first. Stay tuned...

Konerkoholic
09-12-2003, 06:16 PM
Damn. Danny walking the lead-off man as usual. Reese says hi. :smile:

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 06:17 PM
:hawk

"The dreaded lead-off walk..."

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 06:19 PM
Pending...

Danny Wrong

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 06:21 PM
Wonderful.

bc2k
09-12-2003, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Depending on how this season turns out, Valentin may become expendable... and soon. Rumors regarding Miguel Tejada continue to hover around Sox camp.

Where are the rumors rumored?

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Where are the rumors rumored?

You can probably find several posts talking about Tejada scattered throughout this board. Just type his name in using the "Search" option.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 06:25 PM
Wha? Nomar messed up? I thought he was perfect.

Finally, a little luck.

bc2k
09-12-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
You can probably find several posts talking about Tejada scattered throughout this board. Just type his name in using the "Search" option.

You can't remember where they were rumored?

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
You can't remember where they were rumored?

Not at the moment. The only place that comes to mind is the ESPN Insider site, which you have to pay to look at.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 06:30 PM
A two bagger for Everret. What's the chance Paulie hits behind him?

SoxFanDan
09-12-2003, 06:31 PM
pleas sox execute a runner to come home with no men out on 2nd base.

kingpin_rcs
09-12-2003, 06:34 PM
Yahoo, MLB and ESPN all locked up - they all say Ramirez is up with a full count - what happened?

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by kingpin_rcs
Yahoo, MLB and ESPN all locked up - they all say Ramirez is up with a full count - what happened?

Manny struck out looking. Nomar made some sort of mistake, but I'm not sure what happened. The Sox were able to escape and are now batting. Carl Everett doubled to start the inning.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 06:36 PM
Way to pick up Jose, Joe Crede! We on top!

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Way to pick up Jose, Joe Crede! We on top!

Finally! Execution.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Manny struck out looking. Nomar made some sort of mistake, but I'm not sure what happened. The Sox were able to escape and are now batting. Carl Everett doubled to start the inning.

Strike out--throw 'em out. Nomar either got a real bad jump or just stopped half way. A quick run down got him out.

JohnJeter
09-12-2003, 06:38 PM
Jose needed to be picked up- horrid AB. DJ even said a jam shot grounder scores the run with the IF back. Guess you play it differently in Fenway, was Jose's thinking.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Strike out--throw 'em out. Nomar either got a real bad jump or just stopped half way. A quick run down got him out.

Ah. Thanks for clearing that up. All the play-by-play Java applications are down for some reason.

voodoochile
09-12-2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Strike out--throw 'em out. Nomar either got a real bad jump or just stopped half way. A quick run down got him out.

No, they called batter interference because after striking out, Manny walked right in front of the plate and Sandy hit him in the head on his follow through. Good thing too, because Damon scored easily while Nomar ran back and forth between first and second.

Score showed 1-0 when they went to commercial, but the run was gone when they came back.

1-0 Good Guys...

MisterB
09-12-2003, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Manny struck out looking. Nomar made some sort of mistake, but I'm not sure what happened. The Sox were able to escape and are now batting. Carl Everett doubled to start the inning.

Nomar broke for second on Manny's strikeout, Alomar threw through and Nomar apparently got caught in a rundown with Damon coming home. The run didn't count because they ruled that Manny interfered with Alomar's throw, so Nomar was out regardless of the throw.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
No, they called batter interference because after striking out, Manny walked right in front of the plate and Sandy hit him in the head on his follow through.

What does that have to do with Nomar getting caught in a rundown? I'm watching it too.....

voodoochile
09-12-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
What does that have to do with Nomar getting caught in a rundown? I'm watching it too.....

Nothing. If no batter interference, Damon scores. Since batter interference makes Nomar an autmatic out, Damon's run didn't count (3rd out registered before he crossed the plate).

No batter interference, then Nomar's running around allows Damon to score before the 3rd out registers.

balboner
09-12-2003, 06:46 PM
Why in the world is Danny Wright starting against Boston? Was anyone actually expecting him to do well? We have a good chance going vs Suppan, but not if Wright walks them around the bases.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2003, 06:47 PM
Mark it down...

With Mueller at-bat, Rooney says Manuel has to get somebody up. Wright can't find the plate.

Let's see what happens...

whitesoxwilkes
09-12-2003, 06:48 PM
what's the situation? darned gamecast...

CLR01
09-12-2003, 06:48 PM
WRIGHT YOU SUCK


:chunks

kingpin_rcs
09-12-2003, 06:49 PM
:wright

I suck

balboner
09-12-2003, 06:49 PM
Kenny Williams has received alot of praise this year, but his failure to get the Sox a number 5 starter is inexcusable! Porzio, Cotts, and Wright have been a big key to the Sox failures this year.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2003, 06:51 PM
Wright walks in the tying run. 5 walks... and counting. Still nobody out, too.

Konerkoholic
09-12-2003, 06:51 PM
Attack the hitters dammit. With the bases loaded it's too late.

voodoochile
09-12-2003, 06:52 PM
Wright is such a head case. Too bad too, because he has a good arm.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 06:53 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, one batter too late, Mister Jerry Manuel!


:jerry
"I'm Batman"

SoxxoS
09-12-2003, 06:54 PM
I don't ever want to see him on the mound for the Sox again. I have had enough.

The mental aspect of the game is a huge percentage, and he doesn't have it. He looked like a damn 20 year old out there.

Trade him for a low level catcher, I have seen enough.

jabrch
09-12-2003, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by balboner
Kenny Williams has received alot of praise this year, but his failure to get the Sox a number 5 starter is inexcusable! Porzio, Cotts, and Wright have been a big key to the Sox failures this year.

How many teams do have a good 5th starter? Geez, Minn hardly has 3. KC has maybe 2. Past the Yanks and the Red Sox - who has a 5th starter?

jabrch
09-12-2003, 06:55 PM
lovely start. Gonna tax the bullpen today boys!

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Trade him for a low level catcher, I have seen enough.

The Cubs would probably want him :D:

ShoelessFred
09-12-2003, 06:56 PM
so.

what will our 2nd place roster look like for spring training?

voodoochile
09-12-2003, 06:57 PM
That wasn't a great throw by Jose, but Paulie could have caught it. It missed his glove by 6" or something. Better to take your foot off the bag and catch the ball, Paulie...

kingpin_rcs
09-12-2003, 06:57 PM
:wright

I really, really suck


How do I suck, let me count the ways - oops can't count that high.

Count? What's a count?

Strikes? I thought the fans didn't want strikes like in 94.


Oh, OVER the plate - my bad.

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 06:59 PM
Thank you Jerry Manuel for giving away another game.

Why in the hell is Danny Wrong pitching with 16 games left?

Unreal. Then Manuel talks about getting Daubach in these games because it'd be special for him to get to play in Boston.

Holy crap I can't believe this guy is flushing it down the toilet.

jabrch
09-12-2003, 07:00 PM
we are only down 4 - 1. Lets go get em... We can't fold like wet napkins here. We have to keep on slugging...

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
That wasn't a great throw by Jose, but Paulie could have caught it. It missed his glove by 6" or something. Better to take your foot off the bag and catch the ball, Paulie...

If nothing else, that ball probably hits Frank Thomas in the chest. He's a big target over there.

:jerry
"I can't imagine anything short of an emergency playing Frank at first base."

JRIG
09-12-2003, 07:08 PM
If Schoeneweis can hold them where they are, we can get to Jeff Suppan. Mark it down.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2003, 07:09 PM
LOL! Rooney is making fun of Everett for wearing sunglasses on his cap tonight.

:rooney
"It's a look!"

voodoochile
09-12-2003, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
If Schoeneweis can hold them where they are, we can get to Jeff Suppan. Mark it down.

I agree. His control is shaky and some balls have been hit real hard off of him. Of course maybe Carlos should occasionally not swing for the fences when he gets a meatball.

Heck, the whole team could try it and see what happens...

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
That wasn't a great throw by Jose, but Paulie could have caught it. It missed his glove by 6" or something. Better to take your foot off the bag and catch the ball, Paulie...

Yet another reason to play Frank at first. He's a BIG TARGET over there for people to throw to. But no, because the great and powerful Jerry Manuel says Paulie is better defensively.

****ing idiot --------------------------------------> :jerry

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
If nothing else, that ball probably hits Frank Thomas in the chest. He's a big target over there.

:jerry
"I can't imagine anything short of an emergency playing Frank at first base."

I said almost the exact same thing, PHG. Jerry Manuel needs to get a clue when it comes to things like this.

****ing idiot -----------------------------------------> :jerry

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 07:13 PM
crackhead---------------------> :jerry

balboner
09-12-2003, 07:14 PM
If the Sox dont make the playoffs this year, I will look back at 2 big Manuel blunders and say they cost us momentum late in the season. The entire Cotts and Buehrle fiasco was idiotic, and pitching Paniagua in the 9th vs the Twins was absolutely retarded. Do we start the game countdown until Manuel gets fired?

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by balboner
If the Sox dont make the playoffs this year, I will look back at 2 big Manuel blunders and say they cost us momentum late in the season. The entire Cotts and Buehrle fiasco was idiotic, and pitching Paniagua in the 9th vs the Twins was absolutely retarded. Do we start the game countdown until Manuel gets fired?

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. This game is still winnable, as are several games remaining on the Sox schedule. I'm not ready to close the book on this team just yet, though I will be extremely happy when Manuel is fired.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2003, 07:16 PM
Everett!

They love him in Boston.

JRIG
09-12-2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by balboner
If the Sox dont make the playoffs this year, I will look back at 2 big Manuel blunders and say they cost us momentum late in the season. The entire Cotts and Buehrle fiasco was idiotic, and pitching Paniagua in the 9th vs the Twins was absolutely retarded. Do we start the game countdown until Manuel gets fired?

I agree those moves were questionable to say the least. But to argue they have a carryover effect to subsequent games I just don't buy into.

Manuel's decision to go with a 4-man rotation, and then his reversal of that call is a much stronger indictment of him as a manager, IMHO.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 07:16 PM
Carl going for the cycle tonight!!! Put it on the board!

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Carl going for the cycle tonight!!! Put it on the board!

I'm glad to see that at least one person showed up for tonight's game. Now, the rest of the guys need to get into the act to make up for all the wrong Wright did.

I made a funny. :D:

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 07:18 PM
JOSE, jose jose jose, jo-se, jo-se!

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2003, 07:19 PM
Manos!

Thank God we're facing Suppan.

(See... positive. :smile: )

voodoochile
09-12-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I agree. His control is shaky and some balls have been hit real hard off of him. Of course maybe Carlos should occasionally not swing for the fences when he gets a meatball.

Heck, the whole team could try it and see what happens...

Okay, I was wrong... :)

I don't know why I changed. I firmly believe that the Sox will slug their way to the playoffs if they are going to get there at all...

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I'm glad to see that at least one person showed up for tonight's game. Now, the rest of the guys need to get into the act to make up for all the wrong Wright did.

I made a funny. :D:

There's no more jokes Left to make about Wright.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Manos!

Thank God we're facing Suppan.

(See... postive. :smile: )

So shall it be...

Keep it going, guys!

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 07:23 PM
You know what's disturbing about the events of this game? After seeing how the Sox hitters have responded to Wright's implosion, Jerry Manuel probably thinks that starting him is a good idea. I'm dreading reading what he will say about tonight's game.

:jerry

"About Wright pitching.. um, obviously we'd like to see him hang around for more than just a few innings. However, his short start really gave us a tremendous advantage tonight. Once our hitters saw that they were going to have to score some runs, they focused better, so they were able score more runs.

"That's why I don't mind when a pitcher has a bad game. When the other team scores more runs, that means that we will score more runs."

:ohno

"That man is so stupid."

joecrede
09-12-2003, 07:28 PM
Kapler might be my least favorite player, if it weren't for the Sox he'd be out of baseball.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 07:30 PM
Playoff tix update---------- listed price for 4 tix in sec. 510 currently on ebay $449

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Playoff tix update---------- listed price for 4 tix in sec. 510 currently on ebay $449

:reinsy

"Muhahahahahahahaha!"

Gumshoe
09-12-2003, 07:34 PM
What I am seeing. Koch entering the game (one still within reach) after Schoenweis looks fine and Walker gets a real chintsy hit. Oh, man, is JM going to hear about this.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think we're done tonight.

Gumshoe

Gumshoe
09-12-2003, 07:35 PM
Koch got someone good out!

Yeah!

Gumshoe

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
:reinsy

"Muhahahahahahahaha!"

I didn't even think of him!!!!! :D: They are listed under the user name WhiteFlagTrader

JRIG
09-12-2003, 07:36 PM
Billy Koch? Here? I'm speechless.

Even if he gets out of it, we still need someone to eat up innings.

CLR01
09-12-2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Billy Koch? Here? I'm speechless.

Even if he gets out of it, we still need someone to eat up innings.


Dont worry, we have wunsch availible. He is good for 2 0r 3 batters.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 07:43 PM
If Koch implodes on that mound, Manuel needs to be fired. The Sox are in the middle of pennant race, so they cannot afford to have unreliable players out there screwing things up. I am so sick and tired of Manuel's tinkering, as well as his lame excuses for it.

:jerry

"I want to give Daubach a start here in Boston, because I think it would be special for him."

This guy's antics are truly indefensible.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 07:45 PM
C-Lee walks and takes 2nd on a wild pitch. C'mon Big Hurt!!!!

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 07:50 PM
Damn it!

SoxxoS
09-12-2003, 07:53 PM
The Twins are up 2-0 on the Tribe as well.

Great start to the weekend

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 07:53 PM
If it is not a homerun, we're not scoring.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 07:54 PM
I love Maggs, but he really needs to work on his hitting in clutch situations. This business of hitting grounders to second or short needs to stop. Right now, teams are pitching around Frank to get to Maggs. That's not good at all.

JRIG
09-12-2003, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
The Twins are up 2-0 on the Tribe as well.

Great start to the weekend

3-2 Cleveland now. Hooray for Johnny Perralta.

JUST WIN

bc2k
09-12-2003, 07:56 PM
3-2 Indians

SoxxoS
09-12-2003, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I love Maggs, but he really needs to work on his hitting in clutch situations. This business of hitting grounders to second or short needs to stop. Right now, teams are pitching around Frank to get to Maggs. That's not good at all.

You don't really work on that. Either you have it or you don't.

SoxxoS
09-12-2003, 07:58 PM
3-2 Cleveland lead!

That helps.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
You don't really work on that. Either you have it or you don't.

I don't know. Frank was a terrible clutch hitter earlier in his career, but he's been terrific in those situations this season. Maybe it's just one of those things that improves with experience. Either way, the Sox need a hitter in the cleanup spot, not someone who can't drive people in.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 08:00 PM
Is that Billy Koch or Mitch Williams out there? He almost drilled Bill Mueller twice.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 08:02 PM
If it matters: Tiggers 3 KC 0

JRIG
09-12-2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I don't know. Frank was a terrible clutch hitter earlier in his career, but he's been terrific in those situations this season. Maybe it's just one of those things that improves with experience. Either way, the Sox need a hitter in the cleanup spot, not someone who can't drive people in.

Or maybe a lot of it just has to do with luck.

This year Mags is .310/.383/.531 with RISP. I'll take that any day.

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 08:03 PM
What is up with all the walks????????

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 08:04 PM
It looks like Koch needs to come out. According to MLB Gameday, he's all over the place. That's not a good sign in a close game like this.

Wake up, Jerry!

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 08:04 PM
Son of a *****. Nine walks already. C'mon now guys, get it together!

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Or maybe a lot of it just has to do with luck.

This year Mags is .310/.383/.531 with RISP. I'll take that any day.

It's not what you hit, it's WHEN you hit em.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2003, 08:05 PM
Koch walks another. That's nine for the Sox tonight.

Rooney & Farmer are seriously depressed. Our bullpen is being chewed up AT THE BEGINNING of a roadtrip.

This just sucks...

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 08:05 PM
Hawk and DJ are saying it's time for the 4-man rotation, and Manuel needs to start listening to his players, because the starters all want it.

JRIG
09-12-2003, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by A.T. Money
It's not what you hit, it's WHEN you hit em.

Right. And with RISP Mags hits them quite well.

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 08:06 PM
4 walks for Koch. This is UNREAL!

Chisox353014
09-12-2003, 08:06 PM
:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
***???!??!?!

10 WALKS!!!!

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 08:06 PM
Hey look, it's JM! Good to see ya Jerr. Crackhead.

JRIG
09-12-2003, 08:06 PM
What a surprise. Koch is tiring after one inning.

inta
09-12-2003, 08:06 PM
manuel is a ****in moron.

why is koch allowed to throw so many pitches?
i love the guy, but he's a closer at heart, he shoulda been yanked ages. ago.

note to jerry, saving energy in our bullpen means squat if we cant even make the playoffs.


jackasss

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Or maybe a lot of it just has to do with luck.

This year Mags is .310/.383/.531 with RISP. I'll take that any day.

It may be that I'm just not remembering correctly. Those are excellent numbers.

The Sox need to get their hitters back on the same page again. Frank was struggling last week. Maggs is struggling this week. I hope nobody else has any problems next week, or this get ugly on the offensive side of things.

Check that, it already is an ugly sight.

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Right. And with RISP Mags hits them quite well.

Most of those have come with us already in a lead.

How about when we're trailing? I think the whole team SUCKS in that department.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2003, 08:07 PM
10 walks, 3 in a row. Koch out.

This is not a playoff team, gentlemen.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2003, 08:08 PM
:rooney
"This is ridiculous..."

Maybe Rooney ought to post at WSI, eh?

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 08:08 PM
:firejerry

What the hell was he thinking? Billy Koch has rarely worked more than one inning over the past few years. He's a closer. He can't pitch in a long-relief role. But of course, Jerry "The Tinkerer" needed to "see what would happen."

Get this dumbass outta' here --------------------------> :jerry

Iwritecode
09-12-2003, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
10 walks, 3 in a row. Koch out.

This is not a playoff team, gentlemen.

Not with Wright starting it's not...

JRIG
09-12-2003, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by A.T. Money
Most of those have come with us already in a lead.

How about when we're trailing? I think the whole team SUCKS in that department.

That's going to take some research.

ode to veeck
09-12-2003, 08:09 PM
cmon kelly get one over the plate

voodoochile
09-12-2003, 08:09 PM
:bkoch:
"I'm a head case."

:wright
"Me 2..."

Who starts on Saturday, the next time the Sox need a 5th starter?

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
10 walks, 3 in a row. Koch out.

This is not a playoff team, gentlemen.

No, it isn't.

Isn't funny that it takes for runs to score for Manuel to react?

DJ made a comment that Manuel needs to be ready for anything. If the pitcher is failing, you need to have someone ready in the pen.

He basically said that Manuel isn't understanding that he needs to treat every game like the playoffs. YOU HAVE NO MORE TIME!

JRIG
09-12-2003, 08:10 PM
Great. Bring in the guy who normally works 2/3 of an inning to replace the guy who usually works one inning.



F'in moron------------------------------------------------->:jerry

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by A.T. Money
Hawk and DJ are saying it's time for the 4-man rotation, and Manuel needs to start listening to his players, because the starters all want it.

As PHG has pointed out on several occasions, Hawk Harrelson is the surest berometer for what Reinsdorf is thinking. If Hawk is ripping on Jerry Manuel again, it's a good bet that "The Tinkerer" may be gone if this team falls apart down the stretch.

SoxxoS
09-12-2003, 08:11 PM
I would bet dollars to donuts that the Sox use a four man rotation for the next 16 games. Book that.

Iwritecode
09-12-2003, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
:bkoch:
"I'm a head case."

:wright
"Me 2..."

Who starts on Saturday, the next time the Sox need a 5th starter?

Hopefully after tonight Manuel will decide that we don't need a 5th starter the rest of this season...

Daver
09-12-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Who starts on Saturday, the next time the Sox need a 5th starter?


:chopper

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2003, 08:12 PM
Now they're complaining about Paniqua...

:rooney :farmer
"That took a lot of air out of the team..."
"He's not here anymore..."

I guess those two guys don't know anything about baseball either. Negative, negative, negative...

ode to veeck
09-12-2003, 08:13 PM
JM slow on the hook tonight with two pitchers that couldn't find the plate for several batters

Chisox353014
09-12-2003, 08:13 PM
Cleveland Rocks.
4-2 Indians, Martinez RBI base hit.

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 08:13 PM
Manuel is writing his own release form.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by Daver
:chopper

Spitballs are illegal :)

JRIG
09-12-2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
As PHG has pointed out on several occasions, Hawk Harrelson is the surest berometer for what Reinsdorf is thinking. If Hawk is ripping on Jerry Manuel again, it's a good bet that "The Tinkerer" may be gone if this team falls apart down the stretch.

Not only do the starters want it, JERRY SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO IT. And then all of the sudden he wasn't.

As I said earlier, the fact that he cannot make a decision and stick to it might be the most damning indictment of his reign.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 08:14 PM
At least if the Twins lose tonight, the Sox will still be tied for first if they can't pull this one out. Jerry Manuel needs to get a ****ing clue. Danny Wright has great stuff, but he has taken several steps back this season, so he is not the man who should be out there starting when a playoff berth is on the line.

Is anyone else afraid of what Manuel might do if it comes down to a one-game playoff versus KC or Minnesota?

:jerry

"Neal Cotts deserves another chance."

Iwritecode
09-12-2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Chisox353014
Cleveland Rocks.
4-2 Indians, Martinez RBI base hit.

That's great and all, but the Sox really need a win tonight to take advantage of that...

voodoochile
09-12-2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Now they're complaining about Paniqua...

:rooney :farmer
"That took a lot of air out of the team..."
"He's not here anymore..."

I guess those two guys don't know anything about baseball either. Negative, negative, negative...

No, but that is an absurd concept all the way around. If the Sox cannot get over a 9th inning comeback in a game they still won than this team is completely fragile mentally.

7 runs on 4 hits. They have walked in 3 runs in a game they are losing by 4. That's just sick...

Daver
09-12-2003, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Spitballs are illegal :)

:chopper


I am incapable of spitting.

:bandance:

SoxxoS
09-12-2003, 08:15 PM
4-2 Injuns.

Come on Cleveland, keep us in first place.

We have this guy ------------------> :jerry running our team.

God knows he can't do it.

:wright

"Neither can I."

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 08:15 PM
Well, this one was another gift.

Can anyone tally the amount of games Manuel has pissed away this season? 20?

voodoochile
09-12-2003, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Spitballs are illegal :)

Yeah, but if they get hits, Chopper bites them in the leg on the way to first. It's better than a brush back pitch for psyching the opposing hitters out...

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
No, but that is an absurd concept all the way around. If the Sox cannot get over a 9th inning comeback in a game they still won than this team is completely fragile mentally.

7 runs on 4 hits. They have walked in 3 runs in a game they are losing by 4. That's just sick...

Like I said, they don't know jack. We should have kept Paniaqua. The way Manuel is chewing up the bullpen, we'll probably need him. Don't you think?

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 08:16 PM
Where are all the Manuel supporters?

Huh? Where?

Explain this game. Like why we're not using a 4-game rotation with 16 games left!

JRIG
09-12-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
No, but that is an absurd concept all the way around. If the Sox cannot get over a 9th inning comeback in a game they still won than this team is completely fragile mentally.

7 runs on 4 hits. They have walked in 3 runs in a game they are losing by 4. That's just sick...

Exactly. It ain't like Paniagua is causing the Sox to walk in runs left and right.

Iwritecode
09-12-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
At least if the Twins lose tonight, the Sox will still be tied for first if they can't pull this one out. Jerry Manuel needs to get a ****ing clue. Danny Wright has great stuff, but he has taken several steps back this season, so he is not the man who should be out there starting when a playoff berth is on the line.

Is anyone else afraid of what Manuel might do if it comes down to a one-game playoff versus KC or Minnesota.

:jerry

"Neal Cotts deserves another chance."

Honestly, that should be a poll. Who would you want to start if there was a one-game playoff on the 29th?

Take into consideration there will be 2-3 starters unavailabe due to having pitched in the couple of days before. Plus, if they won, who would start game 1 of the ALDS???

voodoochile
09-12-2003, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Like I said, they don't know jack. We should have kept Paniaqua. The way Manuel is chewing up the bullpen, we'll probably need him. Don't you think?

Rather see Adkins and the way this game is going, we probably will...

JRIG
09-12-2003, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Like I said, they don't know jack. We should have kept Paniaqua. The way Manuel is chewing up the bullpen, we'll probably need him. Don't you think?

Where's Ginter?

PaleHoseGeorge
09-12-2003, 08:21 PM
You'll see Adkins. You'll see plenty more, too.

Tell me how chewing up your bullpen is any worse than chewing up your best 4 starters? We can't win this game with the pitchers Manuel keeps sending to the mound.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 08:21 PM
How in the world can Sox brass sit back and watch Manuel screw this up? How?

Jerry Reinsdorf is, above all else, a business man. As such, it is his responsibility to hire competent people to work under him. If one of his employees is not doing his job properly, then he needs to be fired. It's that simple.

The problem is, it's too late to make a change now. Manuel should have been fired after those two disastorous series in Tampa Bay and Detroit.

Iwritecode
09-12-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
You'll see Adkins. You'll see plenty more, too.

Tell me how chewing up your bullpen is any worse than chewing up your best 4 starters? We can't win this game with the pitchers Manuel keeps sending to the mound.

You'll have to talk to KW about that...

Seriously, who does he have in the pen for long relief that reliable?

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
You'll have to talk to KW about that...

Seriously, who does he have in the pen for long relief that reliable?

I don't even think Manuel knows the answer to that question. He has screwed the bullpen up so badly this season that nobody knows what's going on.

voodoochile
09-12-2003, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
You'll see Adkins. You'll see plenty more, too.

Tell me how chewing up your bullpen is any worse than chewing up your best 4 starters? We can't win this game with the pitchers Manuel keeps sending to the mound.

Then who does he send out there? I'm not a JM supporter, but this game was ugly from the start. Wright is the long reliever and he started.

I worry about burning guys out if they go to a 4-man rotation, but at this point in time, what choice do they have. If the pitchers are for it, he has to give it a shot.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Then who does he send out there? I'm not a JM supporter, but this game was ugly from the start. Wright is the long reliever and he started.

I worry about burning guys out if they go to a 4-man rotation, but at this point in time, what choice do they have. If the pitchers are for it, he has to give it a shot.

Based on Manuel's track record, I don't think he'll be giving the starters what they want anytime soon. Remember, this is same guy who refused to play a HOF'er at his best position.

:hurt

"I want to play first base on this roadtrip."

:jerry

"I can't imagine any situation short an emergency where I might use Frank there."

Chisox353014
09-12-2003, 08:27 PM
2 things: Colon can go the distance tomorrow and we have an off day Monday so this is not quite as bad as it looks. The Sox have chewed themselves up by not throwing any %^*&9^&*% strikes tonight.

Of course this doesn't change the fact that Manuel is a moron.

Hey look, walk #12!!! :whiner: :whiner: :angry: :whiner: :angry:

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 08:27 PM
What is that, eleven walks now?

:firejerry

I'm so sick and tired of this garbage.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Chisox353014
Hey look, walk #12!!! :whiner: :whiner: :angry: :whiner: :angry:

It's even worse than I thought.

MRKARNO
09-12-2003, 08:29 PM
The real question is whether KW will pony up for a good team next year. It's not like our prospects are good enough to allow us to rebuild...

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 08:32 PM
Nice glove Joe Crede! Let's get it going now Sox, it's getting late.

Iwritecode
09-12-2003, 08:39 PM
One question, being at Fenway with almost no foul territory, how do the Sox hitters keep fouling out to the left side???

Chisox353014
09-12-2003, 08:39 PM
Twins out in the 7th. Still 4-2 Jndjans.
More importantly for our schedule, KC continues to fade. 3-0 Tigers now a final.
Hey, gotta stay positive right?

JRIG
09-12-2003, 08:41 PM
Posting this info just for fun --

Before tonight's game:
Alomar with Mets -- .262/.336/.357
Alomar with Sox -- .263/.339/.357

Tough to be more consistent than that.

Meixner007
09-12-2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Posting this info just for fun --

Before tonight's game:
Alomar with Mets -- .262/.336/.357
Alomar with Sox -- .263/.339/.357

Tough to be more consistent than that.

Intangibles are often an invisible statistic.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 08:45 PM
Got one back, now we need you again Carl!

Meixner007
09-12-2003, 08:46 PM
How's that for maggs hitting one in with RISP and we're down.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 08:48 PM
Damnit!

JRIG
09-12-2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Meixner007
Intangibles are often an invisible statistic.

Intangibles are, by definition, an invisible statistic.

I don't really want to discuss Alomar's merits here, though. I really was just struck by the fact that the numbers are so close to being identical.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 08:50 PM
When are these guys going to learn that swinging at the first pitch is a bad idea?

duke of dorwood
09-12-2003, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
The real question is whether KW will pony up for a good team next year. It's not like our prospects are good enough to allow us to rebuild... The attendance has beenhere for ownership to "pony up" and keep this team together for a whole season

duke of dorwood
09-12-2003, 08:56 PM
We are built to score runs in this park-just have to be patient hitters

ode to veeck
09-12-2003, 08:58 PM
We are built to score runs in this park-just have to be patient hitters

carl you listening ??

Chisox353014
09-12-2003, 09:00 PM
Twins out in the 8th, still 4-2 Cleveland.
Come on Sox!!!!

Iwritecode
09-12-2003, 09:01 PM
4 - 2 Cleveland going into the ninth...

duke of dorwood
09-12-2003, 09:02 PM
Can we finally put the great Dan Wrong experiment to bed?

ode to veeck
09-12-2003, 09:02 PM
see that carl, paulie put in a good long AB there (even with the 6-3 result)

ode to veeck
09-12-2003, 09:06 PM
cmon tribe
keep us alive

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 09:07 PM
The Sox have one more chance to win this thing.

I don't want to see Dan Wright start another game this season. If it hadn't been for him, the Sox might actually be winning this game.

Chisox353014
09-12-2003, 09:08 PM
Gordon now in. Jerry's using everyone tonight.

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 09:09 PM
****! ****!

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 09:10 PM
Somebody needs to tell Jerry Manuel that using the entire bullpen in one game isn't the smartest thing to do.

ShoelessFred
09-12-2003, 09:13 PM
this is comical. jerry is in such a panic. i'm sitting her LAUGHING at my tv. gordon pitching in the 8th? we gonna use EVERYONE in the pen tonight? WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR?

LASOXFAN
09-12-2003, 09:13 PM
I just turned on the game and read the game log on ESPN...

:chunks

luvsox56
09-12-2003, 09:13 PM
Here come the Twins:

Top 9th
Shannon Stewart singles, fielded by right fielder Alex Escobar. Michael Ryan scores. (no outs) :(:

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 09:14 PM
The Alomar bros. are gonna start us off here.

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 09:14 PM
4-3 Indians in 9th

Man on 0 out.

princek
09-12-2003, 09:14 PM
here come the damn twinks with teh patented 9th inning rally!
4-3 indians now

Chisox353014
09-12-2003, 09:16 PM
Double play from Hocking 2out. *** is Rios batting for?

luvsox56
09-12-2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
The Alomar bros. are gonna start us off here.

Guess that happen with RIOS pinch-hitting!!!

adsit
09-12-2003, 09:17 PM
I was out at the "Big E" (our multi-state fair) tonight and, though I was able to keep up on the score, didn't have the dirty details. Knew I could count on you guys for those. While you didn't disappoint, I wish the news was better...

Wish me luck. I'm at Fenway for the next 2. Paid for the whole seat, but looks like I will only need the edge.

I'm not giving up... I'm not giving up...

RKMeibalane
09-12-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by luvsox56
Guess that happen with RIOS pinch-hitting!!!

:jerry

*TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER*

A.T. Money
09-12-2003, 09:17 PM
Cleveland wins 4-3

adsit
09-12-2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by A.T. Money
Cleveland wins 4-3

That takes a little of the sting out.

For the first time in years, I'll say this...

WAY TO GO CLEVELAND!!!

Hangar18
09-12-2003, 09:19 PM
I was watching this game at a bar on Lincoln Ave.....and I was so DISTURBED with the events, I decided to use my Alumni priviledges at DePaul, and get on a computer....just so i can type this special message. WHY THE HELL WAS WRIGHT PITCHING WHEN WE DONT NEED A 5 MAN ROTATION??? WE LOST BECAUSE OF THIS. WEre done.

Chisox353014
09-12-2003, 09:20 PM
Well, at least it's a wash for tonight. 4-3 Cleveland wins.

Tough to lose a game by 3 when you walk in 3 runs. Hopefully we got this nonsense out of our system.

LuvSox
09-12-2003, 09:21 PM
But still tied for first.

duke of dorwood
09-12-2003, 09:28 PM
And its one of the "sure win" games for Minn they didnt get. There is life in our stench-but 3 game losing streaks this time of year are hard to bounce back from

Lip Man 1
09-12-2003, 09:49 PM
Just a few notes and thoughts

Two months ago I delivered an angry post when the Sox didn't get Jeff Suppan for the stretch run. I was mad because the Sox needed him for the back end of the rotation, his salary was only something like 500,000 this year and sometimes you have to get a player to stop him for possibly beating you in the playoffs.

Little did I realize that Suppan would be beating us in the regular season. And before any of you say "he wasn't that good tonight..." all I can say is that he threw a "quality start" six innings pitched, three runs. Meanwhile Danny "I Can't Pitch" Wright lasted one inning.

Someone early in the thread said and I'm paraphrasing, "what's the big deal about a 5th starter, how many teams have one..."

All the more reason to get one don't you think?

Jeff Suppan wasn't that expensive was he? Sox 5th starters are now 3-11 with an ERA of over six this season (based on Phil Rogers column a few weeks ago and factoring in Wright's performance tonight) They have now started 26 games. that's a sizable portion of the schedule for a "meaningless" position isn't it?

The other thing that concerned me was the fact that for the second straight game the Sox made two errors. They were 3rd in the league defensively entering the week so something is happening with the pressure on. I don't know how relavent fielding percentage stats are though.

It was mentioned in the thread "how can Jerry Reinsdorf, a smart businessman allow this to keep happening."

Simple... he had the final word on Manuel's hiring. If he fires him, he looks bad. His ego doesn't permit admission of mistakes.

And finally for what it's worth the Cotts - Buehrle controversy was mentioned again. For the record the Sox are now 7-7 overall since Cotts started and they are 2-6 against teams with records over .500 in that stretch.

Now in honor of the "optimists" I'll close with some "positives."

The Twins lost tonight, unexpectedly and all White Sox fans should get down on their knees in gratitude to Cleveland.

The Royals lost tonight unexpectedly and all White Sox fans should get down on their knees in gratitude to Detroit.

I've got to cover a college football game tomorrow night so I'll keep tabs as best I can. Hopefully Colon will last more then one inning. Remember the Sox still haven't even guaranteed themselves a "winning" season yet. They still need four more victories.
Lip

Gumshoe
09-12-2003, 09:57 PM
I'm not sure about the whole Suppan scenario, but those points are very well taken.

What's crazy is the lack of thought about a 4 man rotation, esp. with an off day coming up. That'll save bullpen, too, don't you think? Sheesh. This game was still winnable, even with 11 walks given up.

What's funnier is that Minny is going to lose again. Hahaa.

Gummy

cheeses_h_rice
09-12-2003, 11:22 PM
I missed the game entirely tonight, and just read the ESPN play-by-play recap. Have we ever given up as many walks as we did tonight? Pathetic.

Yeah, we lost no ground, but how many times is MN going to lose to CLE?

voodoochile
09-12-2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I missed the game entirely tonight, and just read the ESPN
Yeah, we lost no ground, but how many times is MN going to lose to CLE?

5 more times?

FJA
09-13-2003, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I missed the game entirely tonight, and just read the ESPN play-by-play recap. Have we ever given up as many walks as we did tonight? Pathetic.

Yeah, we lost no ground, but how many times is MN going to lose to CLE?

Well, they've lost nine of 14 already to Cleveland. You never know ... the Indians aren't as terrible as their record indicates, and they might just be that team that has Minnesota's number.

FarWestChicago
09-13-2003, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by FJA
Well, they've lost nine of 14 already to Cleveland. You never know ... the Indians aren't as terrible as their record indicates, and they might just be that team that has Minnesota's number. C'mon FJA. Haven't you been reading this board? The Twinks can't possibly lose another game this year.

Jerko
09-13-2003, 02:03 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen, one batter too late, Mister Jerry Manuel!
Ladies and Gentlemen, one batter too late, Mister Jerry Manuel!


This is not a new post. This was posted on 4-15, 4-18, 4-23, 5-3, 5-5, 5-7, 5-14, 6-2, 6-6, 6-18, 7-2, 7-8, 7-20, 8-3, 8-11, 8-18, 8-27, 9-3, 9-6, and 9-12.

LuvSox
09-13-2003, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Ladies and Gentlemen, one batter too late, Mister Jerry Manuel!



This is not a new post. This was posted on 4-15, 4-18, 4-23, 5-3, 5-5, 5-7, 5-14, 6-2, 6-6, 6-18, 7-2, 7-8, 7-20, 8-3, 8-11, 8-18, 8-27, 9-3, 9-6, and 9-12.

So ****ing what? You have anything better to do at 2am?

Twins8791
09-13-2003, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Ladies and Gentlemen, one batter too late, Mister Jerry Manuel!
I know you don't like JM, but that's no reason to throw... TOMATOES!