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NewyorkSoxFan
09-11-2003, 04:36 PM
We had a hammer and some nails and we didn't bother using them. Now we are tied for first and we have to hope for cleveland to help us while trying to get one if not two in Boston?
So how do we approach this situation?


NYSF

MarqSox
09-11-2003, 04:37 PM
Well, fortunately, we've responded every time our back's been against the wall (at least, since the All Star break). So, maybe we'll rattle off 5 in a row to keep our first place grip.

bobj4400
09-11-2003, 04:39 PM
I know that no one will want to hear this, but this all starter with the Jose Paniagua fiasco...

Why was that man ever allowed to pitch in a meaningful game of any kind???

mandmandm
09-11-2003, 04:40 PM
Probably best if they close Comiskey for the winter and Sox fans put their money away tomorrow when playoff tickets go on sale.

lowesox
09-11-2003, 04:44 PM
There are more twists to be had before this season finishes. Remember, Minnesota still has to play us 3 more times. This is disapointing, but I'm going to keep watching every game with hope, and start rooting for Notre Dame just in case.

FJA
09-11-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
We had a hammer and some nails and we didn't bother using them. Now we are tied for first and we have to hope for cleveland to help us while trying to get one if not two in Boston?
So how do we approach this situation?


NYSF

We have to win at least two of three in Boston. Three of four was necessary here so we wouldn't put ourselves in a position to go into Minnesota a few games back in the division. We are in serious danger of that right now. Fortunately, the Twins haven't played well against Cleveland all season. But we can't count on that to keep up.

Oh, and next week in Minnesota? IMO, if we only win one, this season is essentially over. (Unless, by some miracle, we sweep Boston and they get swept by Cleveland and we go in there with a three-game lead.) I hate to point to the other team's schedule and make excuses, but let's face it: The Twins are 11-1 against the Tigers this season. We will play well against KC and NY, but probably not with the kind of effectiveness the Twins play the Tigers. As positive as I'm trying to remain, the Tigers are not going to play spoilers.

Basically, unless the Sox play like their lives are on the line, it's over. Fortunately, they've done it before.

doublem23
09-11-2003, 04:47 PM
The Twins are done. Mark it down.

FarWestChicago
09-11-2003, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
The Twins are done. Mark it down. You go, Doub!! The power of positive thinking. :smile:

LASOXFAN
09-11-2003, 04:51 PM
Go Bears?

I don't know, I've never been so depressed when this team is in first place. But I'm certain that around 4pm tomorrow I'll be pulling hard for the Sox and scoreboard watching to see what the Twins are doing. And the Royals. Keep in mind they may only be 2 1/2 back after tonight.

Jurr
09-11-2003, 04:52 PM
I am the arch optimist, but I think Minnesota will pull out this thing. Santana and Radke came up big, and that wasn't what the doctor ordered going into Boston.
Hopefully we can get going against Boston's weaker bullpen players late in games, leading to a couple of wins. However, given the Detroit situation, it looks bad.
Detroit played the Yanks decently, and could give the Twins some problems. However, they probably will lose 2 of 3 to Minny in a series, leaving us to dominate these tough squads to keep pace. If we come out of this on top, we're roses for the playoffs, but I am beginning to doubt this can happen. If we had a 2 game lead, that may have been enough to pull it out, but a tie going into this stretch is going to be tough.

mike squires
09-11-2003, 04:53 PM
It's obvious this season is going to go down to the wire. I was really hoping we would sweep the Twins to help our chances to clinch it at home. Now I just want them to clinch it!

Noone is going to run away with this thing. Our best bet is to win series' and hope for some help of the lesser teams (Tigers)...a little luck won't hurt either.

LuvSox
09-11-2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
The Twins are done. Mark it down.

I'm following you, just don't make me drink the Kool-aid :D:

Twins8791
09-11-2003, 05:03 PM
Said it before, will say it again - If the Sox make the playoffs, you will have really EARNED it.

LASOXFAN
09-11-2003, 05:06 PM
One thing is absolutely certain: by this time next week we will know exactly what this team is made of, won't we.

FJA
09-11-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
One thing is absolutely certain: by this time next week we will know exactly what this team is made of, won't we.

Yep. Who needs a :gulp: ?

Lip Man 1
09-11-2003, 05:10 PM
What do we do now?

Pray for a miracle.....

Oh and win four more games so that at least when the season is over the Sox can say "we've got a winning season..." For us Sox fans that's about all we can hope for.

Lip

Mammoo
09-11-2003, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Jurr
I am the arch optimist, but I think Minnesota will pull out this thing. Santana and Radke came up big, and that wasn't what the doctor ordered going into Boston.


You are so correct!

If you are a praying man and you believe in spending some Heavenly good will on such things, now's the time. The Twins could conceivably run the table with their soft schedule while the Sox finish 8-8!

Does anyone here think the Sox can sweep the Twins up there? Two of three? The Hump Dome is a house of horrors.

doublem23
09-11-2003, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
What do we do now?


We start putting the champagne on ice because we're winning this damn thing.

:cool:

Hokiesox
09-11-2003, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by Mammoo
You are so correct!

If you are a praying man and you believe in spending some Heavenly good will on such things, now's the time. The Twins could conceivably run the table with their soft schedule while the Sox finish 8-8!

Does anyone here think the Sox can sweep the Twins up there? Two of three? The Hump Dome is a house of horrors.

The Sox will sweep. I haven't got any money to bet on it, but I have a hunch.

Chisox353014
09-11-2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Mammoo


Does anyone here think the Sox can sweep the Twins up there? Two of three? The Hump Dome is a house of horrors.

Why not? We did it earlier in the year. Very depressing loss today but there's still a long way to go. This year's been way too freaking unpredictable to just give up now. Cleveland is going to have a little something to say about the Twits winning this division, mark my words. They're beating Kansas City right now.

Dick Allen
09-11-2003, 05:25 PM
This season is over - book it. 44 years and counting. I'll probably get bashed for "negative thinking", but I don't give a d#%n. Anybody who's been a Sox fan for any length of time should have expected nothing less than what we saw today, in a game with playoff implications and monumental importance. This is exactly like the kind of garbage we've seen in any of their postseason games which have actually taken place in our lifetime. Missed opportunities, the other team seemingly taking advantage of all theirs, physical and mental errors, the whole bag. The schedule is too stacked against the Sox to be going from here on in just a tie, where they could have been 2-4 games ahead. All those losses to the Tigers are really coming back to bite them in the heiny now. I hope I have to eat my words, but I ain't holding my breath.

Clarkdog
09-11-2003, 05:55 PM
The Sox must get a win or sweep of every series from here on out. Any series loss or a split in the 4 gamer in KC is the end of the season. Unless they can offest that series loss, with a subsequent sweep. If they get swept by any team - they're done.

That is a goal of 11 - 5 in the last 16. You have to prepare for the worst in that Minnesota will likely find 10 wins in the last 16 against Cleveland (6), Sox (3), and Detroit (7).

Unfortunate, but had the Sox won today - and given the same assumption of 10 more Twin victories - the Sox could have gone 9 - 7 and still won the division.

That's how big this game was. Not being negative. Just stating the facts. I happen to believe they can do it, provided there isn't a cloud hanging over their head going into Boston.

harwar
09-11-2003, 06:06 PM
The Sox are in one of those funks now and i'd be very surprized if we don't get swept in boston & minnesota.What the ****,we just can't win unless we hit 5 homers a game,it ain't gonna work in the playoffs even if we get there.

jabrch
09-11-2003, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
I know that no one will want to hear this, but this all starter with the Jose Paniagua fiasco...

Why was that man ever allowed to pitch in a meaningful game of any kind???

That is weak and soft. Paniagua had nothing to do with the fact that Santana is a very good pitcher and he beat us. Paniagua had nothing to do with the fact that Radke is a tough guy to hit and that he was on today.

Guys, we got beat by a decent team with two decent pitchers going. The best thing we can do is not to make any excuses and go try and take the game tomorrow @ Boston. Focus on winning each series we play in the rest of the way and we will be fine.

But for the love of god, Paniagua had nothing to do with this.

voodoochile
09-11-2003, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
That is weak and soft. Paniagua had nothing to do with the fact that Santana is a very good pitcher and he beat us. Paniagua had nothing to do with the fact that Radke is a tough guy to hit and that he was on today.

Guys, we got beat by a decent team with two decent pitchers going. The best thing we can do is not to make any excuses and go try and take the game tomorrow @ Boston. Focus on winning each series we play in the rest of the way and we will be fine.

But for the love of god, Paniagua had nothing to do with this.

I agree with that, but I do think the lifeless display the Sox put on today has to be somebody's fault.

Man, someone needs to throw something in the locker room today after the game and start busting some heads. This was one sad effort...

bc2k
09-11-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by doublem23
We start putting the champagne on ice because we're winning this damn thing.

:cool:

Good analysis, I agree. Let's just make sure the Old Roman isn't in charge of this task.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we have to face Pedro in this series. So that helps our odds at a sweep, right?

We've heard for the last month how our September schedule will be tough to overcome since Minny hs a much easier schedule. Looking at this from a different perspective, if we sweep a couple of teams we're not supposed to, that could make Minny press since they were already counting on the Sox not succeeding against the better teams. We could scare them.

If the Sox play for their lives and play the series in Minny like professionals with no celebrations or admiring home run balls--basically acting like we expect to sweep, then we would SCARE the Twins and end the season at that point. Bring on Tuesday! "You can take our lives, but you can't take our DIVISION!" -William Wallace.

maurice
09-11-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we have to face Pedro in this series.

You are correct. The probables are:

Suppan v. Wright
Colon v. Wakefield
Buehrle v. Burkett

Suppan has been much worse since being traded to Boston. His AL ERA is a bit higher than Wright's overall ERA. :o:

:jerry
"We won't lose another game to Boston . . . or to Detroit."

:hawk
"I luuuv it when you analyze!"

Win1ForMe
09-11-2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by Clarkdog

That is a goal of 11 - 5 in the last 16. You have to prepare for the worst in that Minnesota will likely find 10 wins in the last 16 against Cleveland (6), Sox (3), and Detroit (7).


11 - 5 is being pretty optimistic that the Twins will lose at least 5 games (remember, we just need to tie them to force a playoff). I think we might need to do 2 wins better than that to get in.

I'm not giving the Tigers or Indians any credit and it should be a minor miracle if they even win a total of 3 games against the Twins. We absolutely need to hang AT LEAST two loses on them in the Metrodome.

What a great week it would be if our Chicago teams could just sweep those Minnesota bastards 4 straight starting Sunday.

ChiSox21
09-11-2003, 08:18 PM
I think we are done! We can't win at the Dome. Detroit and Cleveland Suck. We have to play Boston and New York. Wait till next year. And oh bye the way Manuel is gone, so theres at least hope.

jabrch
09-11-2003, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I agree with that, but I do think the lifeless display the Sox put on today has to be somebody's fault.

Man, someone needs to throw something in the locker room today after the game and start busting some heads. This was one sad effort...

I didn't see the game...but were we lifeless or just beaten by a good pitcher? I saw the box score and saw two errors, but the runs were all earned. Can't this just be that we got beat by a team that plays good baseball?

Lip Man 1
09-11-2003, 08:56 PM
Well to answer your question...in addition to the two errors...

The Sox had a guy picked off base

They had at least one scoring chance with less then two out and got nothing (again...)

They were swinging early and often on Radke, trying for home runs and got nothing (Just like Bill Melton said would happen on Wednesday night.)

While the Sox seriously looked lifeless the Twins (once again) were playing with zeal and passion because their coach Al Newman had a brain hemmorage and is in serious condition in the hospital. He is expected to be fine.


Anybody want to talk about the Sox "luck" right about now? Of all the things that could happen to provide extra incentive to the Twins, their coach having a hemmorage right BEFORE a game with the Sox? The biggest game of the year?? Interesting "timing" don't you think???

Face it folks, the baseball "gods" hate the White Sox.

Lip

thezeker
09-11-2003, 09:29 PM
I do not know much about the baseball Gods but I think we have just as good a chance to win this division as Minnesota!

Neither team is that strong and rather than one team winning the division I think 1 of the 2 teams will find a definite way to lose it. I consider it a toss up.

To take it in another direction I believe the 9th inning fiasco Tuesday was big. Minnesota looked pretty lifeless up to that point. Manuel never knows how to go for the jugular. If he kept Sullivan in 1 more inning Minnesota would have went to the Hotel with their tail between their legs.

Instead we gave them hope! I never left a victory feeling as bad as I did Tuesday. We lost the psychological advantage we had over the Twins. It should have never been allowed to happen.

Our fate is still in our own hands. It's time to put up or shut up!

Gumshoe
09-11-2003, 09:38 PM
Guys, forget superstitions, there are TOTAL bullcrap and just spins by fans anyway.

The huge plays were the decisions that led to pitching to Shannon Stewart last night and Loaiza hitting crappy Cristian Guzman to load the bases up for Stewart so we could see Carl Everett's terrible knees and range in CF ....

If he doesn't hit Guzman we're at worst down 2-1 ... and probably it's tied 1-1.

Otherwise, the sitting of Konerko could be criticized but Daubach hits .393 against Radke and JM plays %s

Lip, forget it all, Sox on top at the end by 2 games, in spite of KW and Manuel, my friend.

Gumshoe

Lip Man 1
09-11-2003, 09:57 PM
Gumshoe:

I hope you and Double are better prognosticators then Voodoo is.

Like I told him betting on the White Sox is ALWAYS a serious risk.

Lip

voodoochile
09-11-2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
I didn't see the game...but were we lifeless or just beaten by a good pitcher? I saw the box score and saw two errors, but the runs were all earned. Can't this just be that we got beat by a team that plays good baseball?

I watched the game with Hangar from the LF bleachers.

Radke pitched very well, but the Sox continued to swing at first pitches, not work the count and swing for the fences all day long.

Add in the errors and it was a pretty bad display of baseball, IMO.

NewyorkSoxFan
09-11-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I watched the game with Hangar from the LF bleachers.

Radke pitched very well, but the Sox continued to swing at first pitches, not work the count and swing for the fences all day long.

Add in the errors and it was a pretty bad display of baseball, IMO.

That is the strategy for a guy like Radke. He was throwing first pitch strike all day. If you try to wait and be patient you will be strolling your but back to the bench with a K. So overall I knew they needed to be aggressive, and I had no problem with that.

However what burned me was Carlos' at bat w/men on 2nd and 3rd at least take one pitch. You have struggled all day with the guy so why not get your feet under you in the box. That at bat in my opinion changed the game b/c just like last nite we were unable to score a run with a man on 3rd and less than 2 outs. It was all over but the shouting at that point.


NYSF

voodoochile
09-11-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
That is the strategy for a guy like Radke. He was throwing first pitch strike all day. If you try to wait and be patient you will be strolling your but back to the bench with a K. So overall I knew they needed to be aggressive, and I had no problem with that.

However what burned me was Carlos' at bat w/men on 2nd and 3rd at least take one pitch. You have struggled all day with the guy so why not get your feet under you in the box. That at bat in my opinion changed the game b/c just like last nite we were unable to score a run with a man on 3rd and less than 2 outs. It was all over but the shouting at that point.


NYSF

I totally disagree. Radke throws so much junk that you have to give him time to dig himself a hole. First inning there were 2 outs on 4 pitches or something before Frank worked the count to 3-2 and drilled a pitch into the bleachers.

It was like these guys were expecting get me over fastballs all day long. Yeah, Radke throws a lot of first pitch strikes, but he does it with off speed and breaking stuff - pitchers pitches.

No one tried to go the other way with him all day long. It was really a sick display. Carlos in particular kept swinging as hard as he can and pulling the ball. It was ugly...

Daver
09-11-2003, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I totally disagree. Radke throws so much junk that you have to give him time to dig himself a hole.

Jamie Moyer has been throwing salad for six seasons,and for the most part has failed to ever dig a hole with it.

Charlie Hough extended his career by 10 years by throwing junk,and was for the most part effective.

You have to change the approach of the hitter about junkballers,not wait him out,if you wait him out he will kill you.

Lip Man 1
09-11-2003, 10:52 PM
For what it's worth on the Wednesday night post game show Bill Melton said the Sox had to have patience or they'd find themselves in the same position with Radke as they did with Santana.

Lip

kempsted
09-12-2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Well to answer your question...in addition to the two errors...


While the Sox seriously looked lifeless the Twins (once again) were playing with zeal and passion because their coach Al Newman had a brain hemmorage and is in serious condition in the hospital. He is expected to be fine.


Lip
Nonsense. Twins played Corpsball every inning but the third. They got nothing off of any of our pitchers and that included Koch and Schowee. Loaiza dominated them - again every inning except the third. When we get all of our runs in one inning you are the first to say how bad we played but when the Twins doe they same thing they were "(once again) were playing with zeal and passion".

Gumshoe
09-12-2003, 12:20 PM
Kempsted, you are right on. The turning point in the game is the beaning of Guzman. They get 1 or 2 MAX if that doesn't happen. Obviously, that's Loaiza's fault. We'll get them at MINNY, because we have to.

Gumshoe

kempsted
09-12-2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
For what it's worth on the Wednesday night post game show Bill Melton said the Sox had to have patience or they'd find themselves in the same position with Radke as they did with Santana.

Lip
Bill Melton rarely knows what he is talking about and didn't here either. Go look at the game log. Almost every first pitch taken was a strike. Robbie Alomar tried that and got two called strikes and then had to swing. Most of those who knew what they were talking about said if you try waiting in this game you would be in the hole all game. Radke was beatable and we hit him fine. We just didn't get enough people home. Period.

Melton is the same guy who was talking eariler about how Foulke hadn't really done anything in Oakland and basic questions about what happend in the game he often gets wrong.

freddyvsjason
09-12-2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by NewyorkSoxFan
We had a hammer and some nails and we didn't bother using them. Now we are tied for first and we have to hope for cleveland to help us while trying to get one if not two in Boston?
So how do we approach this situation?


NYSF

Like the season was a NASCAR race.
Right now because of schedule differences MIN is riding on 4 fresh tires while the SOX have only 2. But for the most part the SOX have had the faster car.

All the SOX can do is ride their 2 fresh tires as fast & as hard as they can & hope MIN messes up.

Take it 1 game at a time as if it were 1 lap at a time & hope to gain an edge on the MIN car.

fhqwhgads
09-12-2003, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by freddyvsjason
Like the season was a NASCAR race.


NASCAR? What's that? Oh, that redneck tennis thing. :D:

(Apologies to daver)