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View Full Version : Should UD ticker holders be allowed to access the concourse after 6in?


JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 09:00 PM
This is more in thinking about the 7th inning stretch & those UD holders who would like to experience the Food concourse before heading home.

Likewise it gives the casual UD fan who can't make it to many games each year a chance to check out some different views.

JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 09:45 PM
2000 SOX attendance: 1.948MIL

2003 trails 2000 by 300K despite a much closer & more exciting finish in 2000.

I think there is something to be said about the fan alienation assoc with the UD policy.

Tonight they drew under 39K on 1/2 price night for the battle of 1st in the ALC against what is arguably their biggest rival right now.

kevingrt
09-08-2003, 09:53 PM
You got tickets late and you bought them for the UD, you stay in the UD

MarqSox
09-08-2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
2000 SOX attendance: 1.948MIL

2003 trails 2000 by 300K despite a much closer & more exciting finish in 2000.

I think there is something to be said about the fan alienation assoc with the UD policy.

You're also ignoring the fact that the Sox have 9 more home games, against the Twins, KC and the Yankees. They'll average 30,000 for those games, which will put them right even with 2000. You're grasping for straws here man.

FJA
09-08-2003, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
This is more in thinking about the 7th inning stretch & those UD holders who would like to experience the Food concourse before heading home.

Likewise it gives the casual UD fan who can't make it to many games each year a chance to check out some different views.

There's something to be said for you being the only one to say the UD policy is keeping you from the ballgame. And it's not that you're the only one to sit in the upper deck. You said you're willing to pay a higher price. Then buy your tickets a little earlier and get on the lower deck.

39thandWallace
09-08-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt
You got tickets late and you bought them for the UD, you stay in the UD

I am a season ticket holder and I think this is a ignorant statement. When season ticket holders miss one of their games they can trade them in for upper deck seats.

I think punishing the fragile fan base because a few knuckle heads ran on the field solves nothing. I have seen plenty of drunk A-Holes sitting by my seats near the visitor bullpen.

doogiec
09-08-2003, 10:11 PM
Attendance per home date is approximately 800 fans less than in 2000, which will be easily overcome during the upcoming games vs. Minn, KC and NY. Don't forget this team got off to a very poor start.

There has been NO meaningful change in attendance related to the UD policy change. Comparing the total attendance at the end of September in 2000 with the attendance in the first week of September this year is a complete distortion of the facts.

doogiec
09-08-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by 39thandWallace
I am a season ticket holder and I think this is a ignorant statement. When season ticket holders miss one of their games they can trade them in for upper deck seats.

I think punishing the fragile fan base because a few knuckle heads ran on the field solves nothing. I have seen plenty of drunk A-Holes sitting by my seats near the visitor bullpen.

How is it "punishing the fan base" to ask people to sit in the seats they purchased? Is there a torture chamber in the upper deck?

I've traded in unused season seats for upper deck seats myself, and had no problem being in the upper deck for those games.

We're Sox fans-WE'RE NOT FRAGILE!

JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by doogiec
Attendance per home date is approximately 800 fans less than in 2000, which will be easily overcome during the upcoming games vs. Minn, KC and NY. Don't forget this team got off to a very poor start.

There has been NO meaningful change in attendance related to the UD policy change. Comparing the total attendance at the end of September in 2000 with the attendance in the first week of September this year is a complete distortion of the facts.

I'm not ignoring anything, but there is a BIG difference betw 2000 & 2003: the race was no where as close & we did not finish strong.

This team is much more exciting in the 2nd 1/2 than the 2000 team. So matching 2000 attendance is not something the SOX should be proud of.

And please stop personalizing everything. Some of you are dunce no matter how one words the poll. I told you this has nothing to do with me.
When/if the playoffs come around I'll either buy them at the BOX or risk another $80 in non-refundable handling costs w tm like in 2000.

Playoff appearances are rare in Chicago so it's worth the risk.

MarqSox
09-08-2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
And please stop personalizing everything. Some of you are dunce no matter how one words the poll. I told you this has nothing to do with me.

And, ironically, in the sentence in which you insult 95% of WSI, you can't even manage to form a correct sentence.

gosox41
09-08-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
2000 SOX attendance: 1.948MIL

2003 trails 2000 by 300K despite a much closer & more exciting finish in 2000.

I think there is something to be said about the fan alienation assoc with the UD policy.

Tonight they drew under 39K on 1/2 price night for the battle of 1st in the ALC against what is arguably their biggest rival right now.

First, that 2000 number was over 81 home games. The Sox have 9 more home games left. While they probably won't break the 2000 total they'll be a lot closer then 300K from it. It also helpes the 2000 team started off hot in April/May and that spurred ticket sales. If the 2003 team did that, attendence would be higher.

Second, how does fewer fans tranlate strictly to the UD policy? Isn't there other factors involved here. There are a few fans (like you) that are bothered by this, but this is towards the bottom of excuses of why fans don't attend Sox games.

Bob

JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
And, ironically, in the sentence in which you insult 95% of WSI, you can't even manage to form a correct sentence.

F off. It's a message board. Grow the F up.

JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
First, that 2000 number was over 81 home games. The Sox have 9 more home games left. While they probably won't break the 2000 total they'll be a lot closer then 300K from it. It also helpes the 2000 team started off hot in April/May and that spurred ticket sales. If the 2003 team did that, attendence would be higher.

Second, how does fewer fans tranlate strictly to the UD policy? Isn't there other factors involved here. There are a few fans (like you) that are bothered by this, but this is towards the bottom of excuses of why fans don't attend Sox games.

Bob

There is no way to measure that.
If there was a way to get UD #'s in 2000 & compare them to 2003 you would just say that people used to buy UD's to sneak down in 2000.

So there's no measure than can prove it other than total attendance or a SOX survey to UD patrons.

Unregistered
09-08-2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
F off. It's a message board. Grow the F up. Dude, It's a MESSAGE BOARD. Relax. :cool:

MarqSox
09-08-2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
F off. It's a message board. Grow the F up.
I'm not the one insulting people merely for having a different point of view. I'm actually pretty surprised the moderators have been lenient with you so far today.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-08-2003, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
F off. It's a message board. Grow the F up.

How many times have you been warned?

Daver
09-08-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
F off. It's a message board. Grow the F up.

The same could be said for you.


I am growing tired of seeing you get warned though.

In the word's of Hawk Harrelson "He Gone"

39thandWallace
09-08-2003, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by doogiec
How is it "punishing the fan base" to ask people to sit in the seats they purchased? Is there a torture chamber in the upper deck?

I've traded in unused season seats for upper deck seats myself, and had no problem being in the upper deck for those games.

We're Sox fans-WE'RE NOT FRAGILE!

If you think you get the same experience in Sec 110 row 8 that you do in Sec 512 row 15 then your out of your mind!

The main concourse is fantastic and I think all fans should have access to it.
If I have the choice of sitting in the 500 level or watching the game at home. I'm staying home and watching it.

MarqSox
09-08-2003, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by 39thandWallace
If you think you get the same experience in Sec 110 row 8 that you do in Sec 512 row 15 then your out of your mind!

The main concourse is fantastic and I think all fans should have access to it.
If I have the choice of sitting in the 500 level or watching the game at home. I'm staying home and watching it.
I respectfully disagree ... I honestly would prefer to sit in the upper deck versus lower deck box, because you get a better view of the field and the price is definitely right. My favorite seats are the bleachers, but if those are full, put me in the 500 level baby! :gulp:

Boozer
09-08-2003, 11:40 PM
C'mon, we're not just talking about sitting in your assigned seats. It is very nice to walk around the lower concourse, especially in the outfield. Totally different atmosphere there than the UD concourse (where there is no atmosphere). I think everyone should be able to experience it at all times.

How hard is it for the Ushers to actually check everyone's tickets (doing their job) to make sure they don't take the Sox Park Upgrade? Since this seems to be everyone's problem.

VeeckAsInWreck
09-08-2003, 11:46 PM
:reinsy
"You want 100 level access, dish out the extra dough baby!"

I too have traded in some unused tickets and have sat up in the 500 level. It's not bad, I don't know why people complain about it.
If you had sec. 506 row 29 during a World Series game, you wouldn't complain.

Bisco Stu
09-08-2003, 11:55 PM
Who sits in the seats their ticket says (unless it's a killa seat)?

"Ooooh, Andy Frain, I can't sit there. Oooooh, I'm peeing in my knickers."

An empty seat is my seat, far as I'm concerned.

kempsted
09-09-2003, 10:56 AM
I have a partial season ticket for the UD. The reason I have UD is because for religious reasons I can't go to games on Friday or Saturday night. The White Sox ticket offices only suggestion was taking a partial and turning in the unused tickets. But those are all upper deck. So I was given the option of paying for LD seats and sitting in the UD for half of my games. No thank you.

But after I did it I discovered something very nice. UD BOX is better than LD Box for the most part. I don't think I would want to sit in those $14 seats but...

Which leads me to the arbitrariness of the policy. If it really is about money remember upper deck box is about the same as Bleacher seats - why should the ushers not do their job and stop people from paying 14 and then sitting in the 20 upper deck box? They don't I can tell you that. And what about people buying the 22.00 bleacher seats and moving to a better seat. Do you stop them? No.

So the only reason they are making the distinction they make is it is easy enough to make, not as some people in this thread are claiming it is the most fair etc etc.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-09-2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by kempsted
...Which leads me to the arbitrariness of the policy. If it really is about money remember upper deck box is about the same as Bleacher seats - why should the ushers not do their job and stop people from paying 14 and then sitting in the 20 upper deck box? They don't I can tell you that. And what about people buying the 22.00 bleacher seats and moving to a better seat. Do you stop them? No.

So the only reason they are making the distinction they make is it is easy enough to make, not as some people in this thread are claiming it is the most fair etc etc.

Well obviously the BIG difference between letting bleacherites sit in empty seats in the LD versus permittinig UD box seats be taken by UD Reserved ticketholders is that NOBODY from the upper deck is going to attempt running onto the field without killing themselves first. :smile:

The policy was only instituted after the fans started running onto the field, some of them attacking umpires. It's a crowd control policy, with the added benefit (as many season ticketholders here have already noted here) that makes the game more enjoyable for them, too. That's called a win-win for fans and the ballclub.

I'm quite certain that if enough UD box seat holders began complaining about interluders holding tickets for the nether regions of the UD reserved section sitting in the wrong seats, the Sox would start cracking down. So far there hasn't been a problem.

Isn't it interesting that LD bleacher seats cost more than UD box seats? That says a lot about how much the Sox screwed up when they designed New Comiskey. Ah, but that's another subject...

dickallen15
09-09-2003, 11:56 AM
If its not about money as you have claimed, do yourself a favor and buy a lower deck ticket. If its the food you crave, save yourself some money and go to a nice restaurant before or after the game. Most stands in the lower deck start shutting down after the sixth inning anyway. The reason for this policy, although most sporting events, concerts, etc. have a policy of making you sit where you bought a ticket to sit, is because a few drunks with upper deck tickets embarrassed the team, the fans of the team and the city by running out on the field. This policy is not going to be changed by a poll on a website. Quit these polls, they are a waste of time.

voodoochile
09-09-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
If its not about money as you have claimed, do yourself a favor and buy a lower deck ticket. If its the food you crave, save yourself some money and go to a nice restaurant before or after the game. Most stands in the lower deck start shutting down after the sixth inning anyway. The reason for this policy, although most sporting events, concerts, etc. have a policy of making you sit where you bought a ticket to sit, is because a few drunks with upper deck tickets embarrassed the team, the fans of the team and the city by running out on the field. This policy is not going to be changed by a poll on a website. Quit these polls, they are a waste of time.

You know if there were a way to prevent people from doing the upgrade and making the LD way to crowded for the available amenities, then this would be great, but right now, the best policy is to make people sit/stay where they bought tickets.

In addition, it will make people buy tickets sooner if they want to sit downstairs, and that will increase demand for LD seats for big series, which in turn will create ticket scarcity (something PHG loves to point out). In turn that will create demand for the better UD seats as the LD gets sold out sooner.

Seems to me, that this policy actually is a good thing for attendance long term. Of course maybe it is better to let a bunch of cheap drunken fools run around the LD and spoil the afternoon for the highest paying most loyal customers in the park. I for one hope the Sox continue the policy. The flubbies finally started selling bleacher seats in advance a few years ago (used to be DOG only) and now they are packed all the time. You cannot enter the bleachers without a bleacher seat and cannot get to other parts of the ballpark from the bleachers. How horrible that fans cannot just wander out there and enjoy the experience without a ticket. How do they manage to get so many fans when they treat them so terribly?

jabrch
09-09-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
You know if there were a way to prevent people from doing the upgrade and making the LD way to crowded for the available amenities, then this would be great, but right now, the best policy is to make people sit/stay where they bought tickets.

In addition, it will make people buy tickets sooner if they want to sit downstairs, and that will increase demand for LD seats for big series, which in turn will create ticket scarcity (something PHG loves to point out). In turn that will create demand for the better UD seats as the LD gets sold out sooner.

Seems to me, that this policy actually is a good thing for attendance long term. Of course maybe it is better to let a bunch of cheap drunken fools run around the LD and spoil the afternoon for the highest paying most loyal customers in the park. I for one hope the Sox continue the policy. The flubbies finally started selling bleacher seats in advance a few years ago (used to be DOG only) and now they are packed all the time. You cannot enter the bleachers without a bleacher seat and cannot get to other parts of the ballpark from the bleachers. How horrible that fans cannot just wander out there and enjoy the experience without a ticket. How do they manage to get so many fans when they treat them so terribly?

:threadsucks

For crying out loud, we have a first place team with a chance to put some major distance inbetween us and the second place team. Stop worrying about your frigging corned beef sandwich or your shower at the park. Go to Mannys or the YMCA if you are in need of either product/service. As far as I am concerned, the only thing we should worry about today is the 10 guys in the lineup. I couldn't care less about the rest of the junk.

Like I said before. I am going to the game. I dont have tickets yet. I will buy them at the park; from the box or from a scalper and will sit where I sit. If I get lowers, great...If I get uppers and am still so desperate for a corned beef sandwich, I'll find my way there to get one. Lets all focus on the real issues at hand. Jugger is (WAS, I HOPE) distracting us from the things that are good about this team and was focusing on the external BS issues that have nothing to do with right now.

If someone doesn't want to come out to the park to see what we are seeing right now, I couldn't care less. I dont need more bandwaggon jumpers. Anyone who wants to be there is welcome, but dont make me feel like you are doing ME a favor by coming. If we hit 1.8mm or 2.0mm, I don't see JR changing his budget for 2004. (now playing in a WS may help...but anything short of that likely wouldn't)

I am done on this topic...
:threadsucks

ewokpelts
09-09-2003, 02:51 PM
Juggernaut,.

I got my TM fees back in 2000. Took a couple weeks after they got swept, but still. Mlb is actually good with thier playoff ticket policy. That year, they made everyone get thier online/phone orders fedexed, but I recieved all that money back. Check your credit card statements from then. Trust me.
Gene

p.s. as for the ud policy...I'm not a big fan of it. I'm a partial season ticket holder, and have been reluctant to use my exchange dates because I'd have to sit up there. I'm not ripping the ud, but I do like to go on the concourse for better concessions/merch . I'm more against it because it's the Sox' way of "being tough" without having to pay for security/ushers at every ld section, which is, btw the only other way to ensure "comiskey upgrade" is foiled.

daveeym
09-09-2003, 04:44 PM
With the added fan deck washrooms and food court the concourse is now very fan friendly even for sellouts. That being said it has lost some of the party flavor that it used to have. The sox could very easily allow for UD entrance to the outfield concourse only and still prevent fans from sneaking into the season ticket holder seats that are closer to the field (taking care of fans running on the field) and still maintaing convienient lines for bathrooms and concessions in this area. However, Juggernaut still may not be able to get his cheesesteak.

MarqSox
09-09-2003, 06:52 PM
What they need to do is put some sort of "attraction" in the upper deck to make it cool to be there ... how about karaoke on Wednesdays or something? Anything to give casual fans a reason to want to sit in the UD works.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-09-2003, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
What they need to do is put some sort of "attraction" in the upper deck to make it cool to be there ... how about karaoke on Wednesdays or something? Anything to give casual fans a reason to want to sit in the UD works.

Absolutely. This has always been the key to getting people to willingly sit up there. It is not possible to lower the height of the seats, so there had better be other amenities to make it more pleasurable. "Buy one, get one free" ticket promotions would be a nice start. Special group sections (cub scouts, little leagues, church groups etc.) make a lot of sense, too.

There are lots of seats up there. You can accommodate a LOT of big groups and never break a sweat. Hell, give them the seats for $1 a piece just to get them to the ballpark and enjoying themselves. That was Veeck's strategy.

:veeck
"Just don't make it $0.98 and a disco record!"

MarqSox
09-09-2003, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Absolutely. This has always been the key to getting people to willingly sit up there. It is not possible to lower the height of the seats, so there had better be other amenities to make it more pleasurable. "Buy one, get one free" ticket promotions would be a nice start. Special group sections (cub scouts, little leagues, church groups etc.) make a lot of sense, too.

The Brewers this year started the "Buckethead Brigade" in one of their UD sections that is otherwise always completely empty.

What it is, every Tuesday game, you can request the Buckethead section, and you get a brightly colored T-shirt and are encouraged to wear goofy costumes and bring signs. All the people in the section stand throughout the game like at a college basketball game. They're always way into it -- it's mostly teens and 20-somethings, and those of age are well-served. But the kicker is, the Brewers annoucers broadcast a few innings from the section, interviewing fans and getting them lots of face time on TV.

It's really turned into a popular thing, and it brings some excitement to the games and gives young casual fans a reason to go to a Tuesday night Brewers-Pirates game.

The Sox could use a similar promotion, I think it would really take off.