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View Full Version : Base stealing or lack of


Paulwny
08-28-2001, 11:49 AM
I don't know why this bothers me so much but it does. Paul O'Neill, who has Konerko speed, has 21 stolen bases.He's been thrown out 3 times and these steals are not the back end of a double steal.

With all the data laden books that managers and coaches are constantly looking at don't they see this statistic, or are all the pitchers asleep on the mound?

If O'Neill were with the sox he'd lead the team in steals. Didn't we hire Pettis last year to improve our base stealing ability.

cheeses_h_rice
08-28-2001, 12:01 PM
That's pretty embarrassing.

If you look at the Sox lineup, they really don't have one lean, lanky athletic guy on the entire squad except Singleton. All their players are either short/stocky (Rowand, Durham, Johnson, Valentin) or big/muscular/lumbering (Canseco, Konerko, Maggs, Caballo, Perry, Alomar).

Base stealing is just one of the "basics" areas the Sox need to do a hell of a lot better job at next year. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think this Sox team is a pretty lazy one, one that doesn't really work *hard* on the basics, and one that doesn't seem to scout the other team's strengths/weaknesses very well. Part of that is probably a by-product of the team's overall youth, I'm sure, but I would really like to see the entire team do a better job next year of just playing more solid ball.

FarWestChicago
08-28-2001, 12:07 PM
I don't know why this bothers me so much but it does. Paul O'Neill, who has Konerko speed, has 21 stolen bases.

Are you sure O'Neill is as slow as Konerko? I didn't think that was possible. Paulie may be slower than most 350 pound offensive linemen. :)

Paulwny
08-28-2001, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago


Are you sure O'Neill is as slow as Konerko? I didn't think that was possible. Paulie may be slower than most 350 pound offensive linemen. :)

OK, I was exaggerating, O'Neill has the often discssed Canseco speed, defensive linemen.

Dadawg_77
08-28-2001, 12:24 PM
Base stealing is quickly becoming a lost art. I can remeber when Henderson lead the league with 150 or more steals a years, now someone has a good when they get 50th. I'm not sure how many of you read Joe Morgan's latest column, but he basically says the same thing and how it causes a lack of true henderson like leadoff man. If Ray could get walk and turn in to a double, he would more vaulable to the Sox then if he hit 30 homeruns. I just wished he would get that.

KempersRS
08-28-2001, 01:35 PM
Speed is more important than you think, its really underrated. Look at a lot of the contenders out there and look at their base stealing numbers. Stealing bases is HUGE. You get a guy into scoring position just like that AND get out of a dp. Look at the Phillies...you don't see a lot of hitting in that lineup, but guess what, they are 1 game out of first. Jimmy Rollins has over 40 SBs, been caught 3 times. 40 times, thats gotta give you an extra 10-20 runs you wouldn't see all year. Spread them out in a few games and those 1-run games that you lost turn into wins. Get a few more players stealin bases (Glanville, Abreu) and you pick up some more. Look at the Yanks, look at all the players they have stealing bases, Speed IS important. We lack so much, you don't realize how helpful it can be.

Chisox353014
08-28-2001, 01:47 PM
I noticed this during the D-Rays series. Check out the SB % for these 2 players:
Player A 12-23 (48%)
Player B 11-15 (73%)

Player A is Singleton, Player B is....Greg Vaughn!?!?
How in heck does Singleton have only one more SB than Vaughn?

Randar68
08-28-2001, 01:48 PM
Player A is Singleton, Player B is....Greg Vaughn!?!?


You think that's bad, compare percentage and totals with Maggs, Carlos, and Durham....

Maggs and Carlos are our 2 best base stealers. Valentin is right there when healthy....

Dadawg_77
08-28-2001, 02:48 PM
Chris gets a horrible jump when he goes. Thats why he gets thrown out alot. Vaughn sb totals benefits from the fact he plays on TB Rays, which lead to situations where the pitcher and catcher doesn't realy care about him at 1B thus a easier chance to get a better jump and steal the base. Not sure on how the turf would come in to play.

Another positive about stealing is you don't have to bunt or sac the runner over. This adds one out to what you have to get him in. Man, wish the Sox or at least someone else have a guy who can steal 100 bases or more in a year. To much big ball is being played here, not willing to take a chance but rather wait for the two run bomb. Oh well, thats the way this game is changing.

Paulwny
08-28-2001, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
. Vaughn sb totals benefits from the fact he plays on TB Rays, which lead to situations where the pitcher and catcher doesn't realy care about him at 1B thus a easier chance to get a better jump and steal the base .

Doesn't explain how O'Neill has 21 stolen bases playing on a good team.

KVinc
08-28-2001, 04:12 PM
O'neil cannot be mentioned in the same category as Konerki O'neil is a smart baserunner and knows when to run.

ihatethecubs
08-28-2001, 04:35 PM
you just wait until julio ramirez learns to hit

Jerry_Manuel
08-28-2001, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by ihatethecubs
you just wait until julio ramirez learns to hit

:gun
I can already throw!

:KW
I won that trade to!

oldcomiskey
08-28-2001, 05:32 PM
was it just me or were we running alot more the first half

Soxboyrob
08-28-2001, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Chisox353014
I noticed this during the D-Rays series. Check out the SB % for these 2 players:
Player A 12-23 (48%)
Player B 11-15 (73%)

Player A is Singleton, Player B is....Greg Vaughn!?!?
How in heck does Singleton have only one more SB than Vaughn?

Does Greg Vaugn play more and thus, get on base more?