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JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 02:40 PM
I beleive the UD policy hurts attendance because I know people like myself that used to go to the games & sit in sec 500 on the rare nights the LD was sold out & would spend some time on the concourse.

US Cellular is a great park for Food & all fans I've talked to love the concourse.

This is not about price as we are willing to spend a LD price on an UD ticket for this priviledge.

Tonight's a perfect example.
There were a handful of people that talked about going to the games Mon & Tues. But don't want to sit in the UD because they don't have access to the concourse.

So it came down to getting the LD tickets or we don't go. After all the hassling on who was going to do what the LD tickets sold out. None of us work remotely close to the ballpark so getting them at the Box Office was not an option.

Now you can make all the excuses you want on what we should have done, but the fact remains because of the UD policy there are less fans going tonight.

gosox41
09-08-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
I beleive the UD policy hurts attendance because I know people like myself that used to go to the games & sit in sec 500 on the rare nights the LD was sold out & would spend some time on the concourse.

US Cellular is a great park for Food & all fans I've talked to love the concourse.

This is not about price as we are willing to spend a LD price on an UD ticket for this priviledge.

Tonight's a perfect example.
There were a handful of people that talked about going to the games Mon & Tues. But don't want to sit in the UD because they don't have access to the concourse.

So it came down to getting the LD tickets or we don't go. After all the hassling on who was going to do what the LD tickets sold out. None of us work remotely close to the ballpark so getting them at the Box Office was not an option.

Now you can make all the excuses you want on what we should have done, but the fact remains because of the UD policy there are less fans going tonight.

Why are people always makign excuses to not go to the ballpark. The UD policy,. the steepness of the UD, the neighborhoold is bad...you get my drift.

Bottom line is the Sox are tied for first and playing the other first place team tonight. That's reason enough to go to the game. Who wants to wander the lower deck concourses when a game is going on. Maybe the food selection isn't as good on the UD, but there's not much else difference between the LD and UD other then the height.

It's time ot support the team and stop the whining. Do Cub fans whine because they can only access the bleachers and no where else in the stadium (or vice versa)? Do Cub fans not support their team because the seats are obstructed? They go. Sox fans make lame excuses.


Bob

JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Why are people always makign excuses to not go to the ballpark. The UD policy,. the steepness of the UD, the neighborhoold is bad...you get my drift.

Bottom line is the Sox are tied for first and playing the other first place team tonight. That's reason enough to go to the game. Who wants to wander the lower deck concourses when a game is going on. Maybe the food selection isn't as good on the UD, but there's not much else difference between the LD and UD other then the height.

It's time ot support the team and stop the whining. Do Cub fans whine because they can only access the bleachers and no where else in the stadium (or vice versa)? Do Cub fans not support their team because the seats are obstructed? They go. Sox fans make lame excuses.


Bob

Thanks for your opinion. It's sure to attract more fans to the park.

Reichardt
09-08-2003, 03:19 PM
The Sox have not been in a World Series since 1959. They have not been in a World Series since 1917. It is September 8th and they are playing the team they are tied with for first place. You have a chance to go to the game and refuse since you won't have access to the concourse?!?! I'm sure the Sox wish they had more die hard fans just like you.

gosox41
09-08-2003, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
Thanks for your opinion. It's sure to attract more fans to the park.

It's amazing how the Cubs can treat their fans like ATM machines, form the wind screens to the scalping service that inflates prices to Cub games and allows the Trib. to make more money and the fans don't let it effect their viewing habits.

The Sox make one silly rule about walking around a concouse and the crybabies come out and say they won't go to games because they can't walk around in a cement hallway. Who cares??? There's a game going on. Support your team, and don't whine.

As for my opinion attracting more fans to the park, it doesn't matter what I think since I have absolutely nothing to do with the rules and policies of the team. I'm just a fan who supports my team, and while I complain about the baseball related issues a lot (ie KW, letting Sullivan pitch to Ortiz) I don't whine about some rules that really don't matter much in the scheme of life.

Bob

JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
It's amazing how the Cubs can treat their fans like ATM machines, form the wind screens to the scalping service that inflates prices to Cub games and allows the Trib. to make more money and the fans don't let it effect their viewing habits.

The Sox make one silly rule about walking around a concouse and the crybabies come out and say they won't go to games because they can't walk around in a cement hallway. Who cares??? There's a game going on. Support your team, and don't whine.

As for my opinion attracting more fans to the park, it doesn't matter what I think since I have absolutely nothing to do with the rules and policies of the team. I'm just a fan who supports my team, and while I complain about the baseball related issues a lot (ie KW, letting Sullivan pitch to Ortiz) I don't whine about some rules that really don't matter much in the scheme of life.

Bob

With comments like this all I ask is that you don't whine about a season avg of 23K at the ball park. Because attitudes like yours are certainly not going to increase that figure any time soon.

WhiteSoxWinner
09-08-2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
With comments like this all I ask is that you don't whine about a season avg of 23K at the ball park. Because attitudes like yours are certainly not going to increase that figure any time soon.

Whereas your idea will have fans clawing at the gates to get in. The UD Policy was not in effect for the last 10 years, but it was never full in the past. How will changing the policy back improve anything? Really, I am totally curious to know how going back to the old policy will change the fact that JR has tortured and alienated the fan base so that many fans have turned their back on the franchise. I have a hard time believing that rescinding the UD Policy will bring the fans back in droves and make them forget about years of futility, a World Series opportunity lost in 90's, the White Flag, etc.

It's not the UD Policy that has driven away fans. It is the lack of playoff success, hell, playoff appearances coupled with ownership that has basically given the finger to the fan base over the years that has made the attendance low.

You can go off on all the posters here all you want, but your arguing with the wrong people. It's not the season and partial season ticket holders you need to convince. It is all the other people JR has alienated throughout the years that you would need to vote in your poll.

andytheclown
09-08-2003, 04:02 PM
With comments like this all I ask is that you don't whine about a season avg of 23K at the ball park. Because attitudes like yours are certainly not going to increase that figure any time soon.

I would be very happy to have a season average of 23,000 fans that come to the park to watch the game! You are not one of those fans.

I have sat on all levels of this park, and I prefer the lower bowl. Not because I can go take a shower, or eat a churro, or stand on the concourse instead of sitting in my seat.

I feel the lower has the best sightlines to watch the game. Others can disagree with that, it is just an opinion. But I would be willing to wager that the people that disagree actually watch the game and not wander a concourse.

The policy has made the ballpark experience much nicer for all involved. Except for a chosen few that want to buy the cheapest seats only to never sit in that seat, and wander around.

You are also dead wrong about this policy effecting attendance. If the lower bowl is completely sold out, we will draw atleast 28-29,000 for every game. There at least that many season ticketholders in the 300 and 500 level. That doesn't even count all the suites.

Jughead, do not go to the games, we really do not need fans like you. You seem much better suited for the North side!

voodoochile
09-08-2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Why are people always makign excuses to not go to the ballpark. The UD policy,. the steepness of the UD, the neighborhoold is bad...you get my drift.

Bob

I agree. Any fan who says, "Well, I would go, but since I can't walk around the LD concourse with an UD ticket, so I won't," is just making an excuse.

I have no idea if it hurts attendance or not, but any "fan of the White Sox" who uses it isn't really a diehard fan, IMO. They are just looking for a good time in the bleachers. I understand that can be had 8 miles north of SoxPark.

-Jim

JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSoxWinner
Whereas your idea will have fans clawing at the gates to get in. The UD Policy was not in effect for the last 10 years, but it was never full in the past. How will changing the policy back improve anything? Really, I am totally curious to know how going back to the old policy will change the fact that JR has tortured and alienated the fan base so that many fans have turned their back on the franchise. I have a hard time believing that rescinding the UD Policy will bring the fans back in droves and make them forget about years of futility, a World Series opportunity lost in 90's, the White Flag, etc.

It's not the UD Policy that has driven away fans. It is the lack of playoff success, hell, playoff appearances coupled with ownership that has basically given the finger to the fan base over the years that has made the attendance low.

You can go off on all the posters here all you want, but your arguing with the wrong people. It's not the season and partial season ticket holders you need to convince. It is all the other people JR has alienated throughout the years that you would need to vote in your poll.

You're partially right & wrong.
Yes, changing the policy in & of itself does nothing more than grab more fans when the team is winning.

However; there are moments that make or break any franchise & with the fervor that is surrounding the city & baseball right now this is one of those moments you should go for the largest crowds you can get.

If you provide a winning team & an enjoyable experience for most walk-ups you are likely to see them more often.

THE_HOOTER
09-08-2003, 04:09 PM
ANDYTHECLOWN,


If I remember you correctly, we don't have to worry about you wanting to take a shower.

:shower :andy : :D:

Kilroy
09-08-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
With comments like this all I ask is that you don't whine about a season avg of 23K at the ball park. Because attitudes like yours are certainly not going to increase that figure any time soon.

Hey genius - where is it written that attendance translates into wins? Or, where is it written that a bigger payroll transaltes into wins? I can direct you to the team 8 miles north which outdraws the Sox by quite a bit, and regularly has the ****ter team. But if you can prove that either of those things are true, especially the first, then I'll listen to your crybaby, bull**** rant.

All you have going is a complaint that you can't be cheap and sit on the lowerdeck too. And that won't get you much sympathy around here.

WhiteSoxWinner
09-08-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
You're partially right & wrong.
Yes, changing the policy in & of itself does nothing more than grab more fans when the team is winning.

However; there are moments that make or break any franchise & with the fervor that is surrounding the city & baseball right now this is one of those moments you should go for the largest crowds you can get.

If you provide a winning team & an enjoyable experience for most walk-ups you are likely to see them more often.

I would argue that you could leave the policy in place and instead lower the price of tickets in the UD and have more of an effect on the number of people that show up on regular nights, thus increasing the season average. Heck, you could couple half price ticket night with half price parking and really see an increase in attendance.

Like a lot of other posters have said, the UD Policy is the excuse de jour. If the Sox rescinded the Policy, then those "fans" will fall back on the bad neighborhood, too expensive, too far, and other BS excuses that they have used in the past.

thepaulbowski
09-08-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
With comments like this all I ask is that you don't whine about a season avg of 23K at the ball park. Because attitudes like yours are certainly not going to increase that figure any time soon.

As your attitude will increase attendance? Constant whining helps? Shut up and get over it. Either buy tickets to the game or don't, it doesn't make a difference to me. It sounds like you just want to something to complain about for the sake of complaing.

How about this...we just close the upper deck and let everybody in the lower deck. Wait no, then the people who like the upper deck will be mad. Why don't we just put everyone in the upper deck. Wait, we can't do that cause you would be upset.

Your argument borders on ridiculous.

Next time you go to a bulls or hawks game, try to get courtside seats with the servers that let you stay in your seats while they serve the food and all that jazz. What's that, they won't let you in there? Why? BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T PAY FOR THEM.

jabrch
09-08-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
It's amazing how the Cubs can treat their fans like ATM machines, form the wind screens to the scalping service that inflates prices to Cub games and allows the Trib. to make more money and the fans don't let it effect their viewing habits.

The Sox make one silly rule about walking around a concouse and the crybabies come out and say they won't go to games because they can't walk around in a cement hallway. Who cares??? There's a game going on. Support your team, and don't whine.

As for my opinion attracting more fans to the park, it doesn't matter what I think since I have absolutely nothing to do with the rules and policies of the team. I'm just a fan who supports my team, and while I complain about the baseball related issues a lot (ie KW, letting Sullivan pitch to Ortiz) I don't whine about some rules that really don't matter much in the scheme of life.

Bob


He's got a point...Do you go to the games to watch them? Or for a good corned beef sandwich? I for one, feel like I can get a better corned beef sandwich at Manny's or at Berghoff and bring it with me for less $ and then watch my favorite baseball team. I guarantee you I will come to the park no matter where I am stuck sitting when I have a chance to come. Now with fair-weather fans, Jugger is right. If there isnt a clown, 2 jugglers, a show, Ronnie Woo Woo or a corned beef sandwich to buy, they won't come. They will go North where they can see all those things.

For some people, this is a legitimate issue. For others of us who have been going to games since the park has been opened, it is not so much an issue.


Jugger, lets think a sec... You are saying you'd buy the lower ticket if it was available...but you won't sit in the uppers because of the Corned Beef. That's fine...How many games this season have been sold out in the lowers? Based on the fact that only 9 games have had over 30,000 fans in attendance (Opening day, 3 cubs games and 5 others), it looks like we only have 5 games so far this year in question where people couldn't get lowers so more people may come...but only for the food, not to buy cheaper tickets. We have 10 more home days...Lets say for arguements sake, 5 of them also fit in your discription...that's 10 games. How many more people would come only if they could sit in lowers (mind you...that is so they can get a nice Corned Beef-not so they save money on the ticket price and capture benefits targeted at customers willing to pay a higher price for tickets.)?

10 games - Lets say we could [B]EQUAL or average walkup from HALF PRICE NIGHT[/U] of 8,000 people. That's about 80,000 people. Are you telling me that would be enough to take our payroll up 20,000,000 dollars? That would mean incremental payroll increases of 250$ per extra fan. Assume Jerry makes only 5% incremental per fan... That means that the ticket price + the at park expenditures, PER FAN, (mind you, that these are of those who did not buy tickets in advance and who are coming and sitting in the upper deck, only because the lower deck was sold out, but they could still get into the lower deck to buy their corned beef sandwich) of $262.50. Hmmm....At 6.50 per corned beef, that is over 41 corned beefs per person per game...

I voted yes to your question...becuase I do think there are some extra people who would come...But it wouldn't impact me in the slightest in terms of number of times I come. In fact, if all of these extra people made lines longer for food and bathrooms, started fights in the lower deck and made the bathrooms into something less than pleasant, I'd probably show up less....

Here's one more tip for you...You know that kid who looks at your ticket and tells you that you can not come into the lower bowl because your ticket is an upper deck only ticket? I have found, in the past, that a $10 bill when put on top of a ticket makes that upper deck ticket look remarkably similar to a lower level ticket. It's funny how that works out...but it has never failed me when I absolutely needed my steak sammich.



(Math corrected:I can't count too well!)

jabrch
09-08-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
As your attitude will increase attendance? Constant whining helps? Shut up and get over it. Either buy tickets to the game or don't, it doesn't make a difference to me. It sounds like you just want to something to complain about for the sake of complaing.

How about this...we just close the upper deck and let everybody in the lower deck. Wait no, then the people who like the upper deck will be mad. Why don't we just put everyone in the upper deck. Wait, we can't do that cause you would be upset.

Your argument borders on ridiculous.

Next time you go to a bulls or hawks game, try to get courtside seats with the servers that let you stay in your seats while they serve the food and all that jazz. What's that, they won't let you in there? Why? BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T PAY FOR THEM.

If we are haggling about the difference between a 14$ seat and a $22 seat, I for some reason don't think a 150$ floor seat at the UC is in question... :-)

CHISOXFAN13
09-08-2003, 04:18 PM
Four hours away from the biggest series on the South Side since October 2000, and I'm forced to read this crap?

Pathetic.

andytheclown
09-08-2003, 04:18 PM
Hey Hooter as I remember, you were not the poster boy for personal hygene either!!



:bart

Rocky Soprano
09-08-2003, 04:20 PM
If you go to the Cell to support the Sox then you wouldnt bitch about your seat, the food, or anything else. If you are going to the Cell for some other reason than supporting the Sox then you have no room to talk because you simply arent a true fan.

thepaulbowski
09-08-2003, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
If we are haggling about the difference between a 14$ seat and a $22 seat, I for some reason don't think a 150$ floor seat at the UC is in question... :-)

It's the same principal, trying to access a part of the stadium you did not buy a ticket for.

jabrch
09-08-2003, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
It's the same principal, trying to access a part of the stadium you did not buy a ticket for.


I know...in the other thread I used the theater and the opera as an example. Another good one is an airplane...Call United airlines and tell them that if they let all the passengers come up to the first class area, drink free drinks and eat the 1st class meals, that more people would fly coach....

Well really? No kidding? You want first class....shell out the money. You want to sit in the front row at the theater...shell out the money. You want to sit in the lower bowl? Only 9 games were sold out this year, so for the most part of the season, it is just a matter of paying the price. And for those 9 games that were sold out, your local scalper can solve that problem for a small price as well...

JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
It's the same principal, trying to access a part of the stadium you did not buy a ticket for.

I think I'm one of the few SOX fans that actually tries to recruit new fans.

This is not about me. I go to the game to watch the SOX. I prefer the seats behind the BPs the most because you can razz the other team or SOX that are stinking it up.

But yes, the fair-weather fans I go to the games with are not content with just sitting in a seat & watching the game. Like the Northsiders they want to be a part of the atmosphere of the people around them.

If that makes them bad fans so be it.
But they are counted in the attendance.

All total such fans & myself count for about 50 butts in the seat this year.
It would have been 6 more tonight.

Now you can pummel with insults for not going alone, but I've tried that & found it to be less enjoyable.

Let's not forget this is about an entertainment experience.

Again it's not about price. If it cost me $12+$4 to buy an UD ticket with LD access me & my friends would gladly pay that price tonight. Hell they would probably go for $16+$4.

Now consider the revenue loss:
$120 in tickets, $24 in parking, & about $150-180 in concessions.

Total: $324. 00.

jabrch
09-08-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
Again it's not about price. If it cost me $12+$4 to buy an UD ticket with LD access me & my friends would gladly pay that price tonight. Hell they would probably go for $16+$4.

Now consider the revenue loss:
$120 in tickets, $24 in parking, & about $150-180 in concessions.

Total: $324. 00.


But if you did it yesterday, befor the deadline, you could have bought them for $22...for lowers...+4....If you would have went to to the park, you could have gotten them at the gate for that price. Or, you could have gotten them from scalpers who, right now, have tons of great seats (they bought the half price coupons and bought bunches of great seats) that they are selling at face (and still doubling their money).

If it isn't about money, go to the park and get the tickets there. Either the box has them, or the scalpers do.

shane
09-08-2003, 04:46 PM
Does the UD Policy include batting practice. I know when I take my kids to a game, they love to go early, try to catch a BP ball and get some autographs. If the policy is taking that away, I would say it's a terrible policy. Some of us on this board love the White Sox, but we also love our kids. If taking a kid to a baseball game is no fun for the kid, it's bad for the sport. If the policy only applies during gametime, I think it's a fine policy. I would be traveling by plane to get to the game and would have bought my tickets well in advance, so I'm not too concerned. Right now, I'm trying to figure out how I can get to KC at the end of the month since it's only a few hours away. I'd love to meet some of the people from this board while in KC.

anewman35
09-08-2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
I think I'm one of the few SOX fans that actually tries to recruit new fans.

Again it's not about price. If it cost me $12+$4 to buy an UD ticket with LD access me & my friends would gladly pay that price tonight. Hell they would probably go for $16+$4.

Now consider the revenue loss:
$120 in tickets, $24 in parking, & about $150-180 in concessions.

Total: $324. 00.

How do you get $24 in parking? Is there something besides the $15 that I just don't know about?

And you're saying you'd spend $25-$30 a person in consessions? I don't think I've ever spent more than $15 at a game in my life. Or are you the types who don't care about the game but seem to think it's a great time to shell out $5 a pop for beer?

And one last thing, if you'd just bought your tickets when you started this silly thread, you'd have had no problem getting LD tickets. You wait til the last minute, you take what you can get.

JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
But if you did it yesterday, befor the deadline, you could have bought them for $22...for lowers...+4....If you would have went to to the park, you could have gotten them at the gate for that price. Or, you could have gotten them from scalpers who, right now, have tons of great seats (they bought the half price coupons and bought bunches of great seats) that they are selling at face (and still doubling their money).

If it isn't about money, go to the park and get the tickets there. Either the box has them, or the scalpers do.

Again we are no where near the park.
If we could buy them with paypal or debit card with the BOX (assuming the BOX has some0 we would gladly do that. But as for taking a chance with scalpers the group vote was no.

What can I say? I live in the burbs.
They like the esoteric ballpark on their terms.

anewman35
09-08-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by shane
Does the UD Policy include batting practice. I know when I take my kids to a game, they love to go early, try to catch a BP ball and get some autographs. If the policy is taking that away, I would say it's a terrible policy. Some of us on this board love the White Sox, but we also love our kids. If taking a kid to a baseball game is no fun for the kid, it's bad for the sport.

Yes, it does. Another reason why it annoyed me so much months ago, and still does (of course, that hasn't stopped me from going to over 10 games this season, easilly my most ever).

voodoochile
09-08-2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
But if you did it yesterday, befor the deadline, you could have bought them for $22...for lowers...+4....If you would have went to to the park, you could have gotten them at the gate for that price. Or, you could have gotten them from scalpers who, right now, have tons of great seats (they bought the half price coupons and bought bunches of great seats) that they are selling at face (and still doubling their money).

If it isn't about money, go to the park and get the tickets there. Either the box has them, or the scalpers do.

That's the thing. People expect to be able to buy whatever tickets they want to at the last minute and then when they can't, they get upset. The 1/2-price night means a big crowd and a sold out LD. So in fact, the attendance argument becomes moot.

Casual fans want to be able to buy the cheapest possible ticket and then get all the amenities the people who paid for box seats get. Why?

PaleHoseGeorge
09-08-2003, 04:49 PM
True story...

I took my 7 y.o. daughter to the Cell for one of the Sunday Kids' Day games last month. The day before, I checked the website and saw that there were still tickets available in the lower bowl for several different prices. I decided I would save the money, arrive at the ticket window on the day of the game and buy my tickets then, saving on the price of my daughter's seat, plus the outrageous service fees Ticketmaster charges.

When we got to the ticket window, I heard the father in front of me express disappointment that he and his two sons would have to sit in the upper deck because there were no more lower bowl seats available. My turn came next, and I confirmed with the window agent that nothing was available downstairs, and then bought two UD seats without another thought.

We always walk around the lower bowl late in the game, so I had to explain to my daughter that this time we wouldn't be able to walk around the ballpark (to the Rain Room or the Veeckian Shower, etc.) because lots of people were at today's game and we would need to sit in the upper deck. She didn't complain at all. She was glad to be at a game with her dad.

We had lunch at one of the picnic tables, found our seats above the Sox dugout too sunny and hot, and moved to shady and cooler seats above the Texas dugout. They had a rain mister off the concourse which my daughter enjoyed cooling off under--and she had it all to herself, unlike the crowded rain room in LD. We were 22 rows up (which would be the last row of seats if the Sox ever get the money to lop off the top 7 rows as they've said they will someday do), and I found the view decent for everything except tracking fly balls. My daughter got everything she wanted, most of it purchased right at our seats. I was surprised but the vendors were hustling all the way up the aisle to serve us, and even the fans seated above us, too.

When the game was over and we got back to the car I asked my daughter, who was now dog-tired and ready to settle in for a nap during the ride home, how she liked the game. She said she thought it was great "especially since this time I got to sit way up there with all those other people."

You can learn a lot from a kid.

voodoochile
09-08-2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
Again we are no where near the park.
If we could buy them with paypal or debit card with the BOX (assuming the BOX has some0 we would gladly do that. But as for taking a chance with scalpers the group vote was no.

What can I say? I live in the burbs.
They like the esoteric ballpark on their terms.

There it is. They want to have their cake and eat it too. The Sox started the problem when they allowed it to go on for so many years while doing everything possible to chase off fans. Now the policy changed (rightly so) and the people who got spoiled by the bad policy are up in arms to get their cake back. Oh well...

jabrch
09-08-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
Again we are no where near the park.
If we could buy them with paypal or debit card with the BOX (assuming the BOX has some0 we would gladly do that. But as for taking a chance with scalpers the group vote was no.

What can I say? I live in the burbs.
They like the esoteric ballpark on their terms.

What can I say? Get new friends? :?:


Seriously, I don't know how to respond to you other than to promise you that there were still plenty of box seats (lower box, lower reserved and lower GA) as of this morning when the ticketmaster deadline hit. At that point, you all could have gone and had no problem getting lowers.

I have a question. When that same group of people goes to Cubs games...and they don't have advance tickets... what do they do? Cuz I know you won't get a good corned beef sandwich at Wrigely unless you are in a skybox...and I know you will have to buy tickets from a scalper there...

shane
09-08-2003, 04:52 PM
Yes, it does. Another reason why it annoyed me so much months ago, and still does (of course, that hasn't stopped me from going to over 10 games this season, easilly my most ever).

I saw on another post that LD access is available for an extra $4. I guess that isn't too bad, as it's still a very reasonable ticket price by today's standards. Those of us with kids would just have to shell out a bit extra, and yes, it would be worth $4 to me.

gosox41
09-08-2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
With comments like this all I ask is that you don't whine about a season avg of 23K at the ball park. Because attitudes like yours are certainly not going to increase that figure any time soon.

I'll whine becayse I go to the games. I make about 60-65 a year as I own season tix. I could walk the walk, you're just crying about something trivial. I doubt the UD policy is why the team is only average 23K for the season. That policy didn't exist in the late '90's and attendence was much lower. Based on your logic, the policy actually increase attendence since it appears there are a good deal of fans who are to busy crying for spilt milk and not too concerned with the outcome on the field or ELSE THEY'D BE THERE SUPPORTING THERE TEAM.

Bob

shane
09-08-2003, 05:03 PM
True story...

I agree. That sounds a lot like one of those priceless commercials. I'm 5 hours from any MLB ballparks, so when I get an opportunity to take the kids, we like to go all out. However, I can tell you that I'd get no complaints out of my daughter. She loves to watch the game. It's the boy that would be a problem. He's usually more interested in playing games!!

JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
What can I say? Get new friends? :?:


Seriously, I don't know how to respond to you other than to promise you that there were still plenty of box seats (lower box, lower reserved and lower GA) as of this morning when the ticketmaster deadline hit. At that point, you all could have gone and had no problem getting lowers.

I have a question. When that same group of people goes to Cubs games...and they don't have advance tickets... what do they do? Cuz I know you won't get a good corned beef sandwich at Wrigely unless you are in a skybox...and I know you will have to buy tickets from a scalper there...

The Cub experience is completely different. It's normally Metra to CTA bus & spend an hour or more at one of the local joints before game time. Most of times we get to our seats 15 min before the 1st pitch. Yes they load up on beer during the game whenever they can get access. Sometimes we sit in bleachers & someone has to go get the beers.

I would agree that they have become spoiled at the Cell over the years but then it is the SOX dying for fans & not the sCrUBs. You typically have to spoil
customers when your #2 in town.

gosox41
09-08-2003, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT


I would agree that they have become spoiled at the Cell over the years but then it is the SOX dying for fans & not the sCrUBs. You typically have to spoil
customers when your #2 in town.

Or do a better job marketing to the right kind of fan.

Bob

JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 05:13 PM
It's too late now as such events require wives permission & sufficient prior notice.

I know you can't sympathize how this goes but here's the chain of events:

Go golfing on weekend with buds.
Get around to talking about the SOX.
Some guys show an interest in going.
Plan comes together via phone calls at work on Monday. All initiated by me.
Have to wait for the following from each guy:
1) Wives permission
2) whether they can make it or not

When we have at least 2 out of the group commiting buy tickets at tm.

Now there was someone in the group this time downtown & we asked him to go to the BOX but he said he couldn't break away.

Now, I don't know how it works in your group but it's never easy in mine & the SOX don't take the priority that sCrUB outings do. I'm sorry that's just the way it is where I live & who I hang with.

I'm the lone die-hard SOX fan admidst Chicago fans who really support them both.

maurice
09-08-2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
The Cub experience is completely different. It's normally Metra to CTA bus & spend an hour or more at one of the local joints before game time. Most of times we get to our seats 15 min before the 1st pitch.

Why is it completely different? Lots of folks do the same for Sox games. The only difference is that the Sox "local joints" contain fewer Trixies. Since most of my friends are not looking to pick up drunk sorority girls, the distinction is moot.

Sorry that you have a hard time getting to the box office. That's not a problem for me, since I go past it every day on the way to work.

:cool:

BTW: if anyone else is interested in the uncensored version of this thread, check out soxtalk (http://www.soxtalk.com/index.php?showforum=2). The poll came out somewhat differently, and Stef is in rare form.

jabrch
09-08-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by maurice
BTW: if anyone else is interested in the uncensored version of this thread, check out soxtalk (http://www.soxtalk.com/index.php?showforum=2). The poll came out somewhat differently, and Stef is in rare form.


You Go Steff!!!!

kittle42
09-08-2003, 05:42 PM
I have found that this works:

Buy one lower deck ticket if possible.

Buy the rest in the UD.

Continue passing lower deck ticket discreetly back over fence by ticket checkers to let everyone else in with it.

Go stand in fan deck or wherever.

The other idea of greasing the palm of the teen ticket taker also works.

jabrch
09-08-2003, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
I have found that this works:

Buy one lower deck ticket if possible.

Buy the rest in the UD.

Continue passing lower deck ticket discreetly back over fence by ticket checkers to let everyone else in with it.

Go stand in fan deck or wherever.

The other idea of greasing the palm of the teen ticket taker also works.

Solves all your problems. Trust me!

JohnJeter
09-08-2003, 05:46 PM
Or if you don't want to risk getting nabbed passing tix, buy two LD, and the other 2-3-4 of you get UD, have one guy go back and forth with that 2nd ticket while the other stays behind in the LD.

shane
09-08-2003, 05:47 PM
Ripping off the Sox certainly won't help any situations!! How about just getting tickets on time or paying the price.

JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by shane
Ripping off the Sox certainly won't help any situations!! How about just getting tickets on time or paying the price.

This yr's attendance will be lucky to pass 1.9MIL. So let's say when it passes 2MIL I'll start agreeing with all your exclusive rights, privileges & the proper protocol to which a "SOX" fan should adhere to.

Until then I'll continue to assert that it does have an impact & the SOX are dying for fans so the policy is bad.

I doubt very much that UD fans wanting to walk the concourse make sure they go to the bathroom there. I'm sure many use the UD brooms before walking down.

So all of these excuses for legitimately denying UD fans access to the Food concourse are just poppycock.

JohnJeter
09-08-2003, 05:53 PM
Re ripping the Sox, you can more than make up for it at the import beer stand.

JUGGERNAUT
09-08-2003, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by JohnJeter
Re ripping the Sox, you can more than make up for it at the import beer stand.

Do the SOX even get that $$$?
That's been something of a debate as well. Where does the concession $$$ go?
I heard both city gets a % of both parking & concessions & the vendors get the rest. The SOX get a very small %.

Does any one know the truth on this?

jabrch
09-08-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
I doubt very much that UD fans wanting to walk the concourse make sure they go to the bathroom there. I'm sure many use the UD brooms before walking down.

So all of these excuses for legitimately denying UD fans access to the Food concourse are just poppycock.


That's bull Jugs....the upper deck fans trying to sneak down and sit in open seats on the lower level are using the corned beef sandwiches and the fandeck as an excuse. Like I said before, there are no more than 10 games this year that were sold out in advance for lowers. I can't see the number of people who make last minute (after the ticketmaster deadline) decisions to go to the game making a darn bit of difference in the net reveues, or the corresponding 2004 salary structure...(see my analysis before.) I think these are BS excuses for trying to get what you aren't paying for.

shane
09-08-2003, 06:32 PM
This yr's attendance will be lucky to pass 1.9MIL. So let's say when it passes 2MIL I'll start agreeing with all your exclusive rights, privileges & the proper protocol to which a "SOX" fan should adhere to.

I agree with you to some extent, see my previous posts, and I voted Yes. However, I have to pay $100 for one seat at a Sooners game. Sure I get to walk all around, even though it isn't possible to do very easily when 80K are at the field, but seriously, the Sox's prices are quite reasonable for professional sports. I just think they need to allow access during BP. Except for that, there's nothing wrong with the policy.

THE_HOOTER
05-21-2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
ANDYTHECLOWN,


If I remember you correctly, we don't have to worry about you wanting to take a shower.

:shower :andy : :D:



:D: :D: :D: :D: :D:

Bruck35
05-21-2004, 07:13 PM
I am sure the UD policy lowers attendance by at least a couple every now and then, because I know I would go more often if I could purchase an UD ticket, then move down to the LD after 5-6 innings or less. Additionally, I never would have received my one and only foul ball:

I was sitting with my father about 7 years ago in the UD of a Sox/Yankees game. In about the 7th inning, we moved down to the lower deck because it was a chilly night and many seats were empty. Half an inning later, Carlos Castillo threw a pitch that was fouled off by Tino Martinez which bounced off the side of the luxury boxes and into the crowd. I wrestled the ball out from the bottom of a scrum of fans, and it's become one of my fondest memories from Comiskey park. (Sorry for the sappy story)

If the current UD policy was in place, I would have never had that chance. I'm not saying that everyone who moves from the UD to the LD during games is going to get a foul ball, but that's just one example of why fans would want to go to the LD midway through a game.

Now that they've added the awesome CF patio area, it's hard to watch a whole game in the UD and not want to at least check out the sights down there.

Maybe they should modify the policy slightly so that after the completion of the 5th or 6th inning, any fan can access the LD. Perhaps that wouldn't have a huge effect, but it would certainly draw people like me to the park more often.

GoSox2K3
05-22-2004, 02:21 PM
The problem with alot of fans on this website is that they believe that only diehard Sox fans should go to games and that anyone who has a complaint about something at the park (such as the upper deck policy) must not be a "real" fan and shouldn't go to any games.

Get over it, everyone! Not everyone at a Sox game is a diehard fan who goes to dozens of games per year. I'm sick and tired of hearing this attitude from some Sox fans. Seriously, if they had their wish, we'd only have about 3,000 people attending per game and the team would eventually move.

My opinion is that I don't like the UD policy. It's just one more thing the Sox do to give a non-fan friendly feel to attending games. Now, I turn this thread back over the the Sox purists who will say that there must be a litmus test for going to Sox games and being a Sox fan.....

PaleHoseGeorge
05-22-2004, 02:41 PM
Being more "friendly" to fans who are too cheap to buy a ticket for the seat they want to sit in -- even as the other team in town charges even more for seats with obstructed views -- is no way to build a fan base.

Allowing the cheapskates to wander and sit in the lower bowl simply inconveniences the fans who the Sox need to attract, namely the ones who bought season tickets and now must contend with long lines to use overworked restrooms and concession stands. That's a bass-ackwards way to "attract" fans.

If any casual "fan" is really too hard up to pay the extra $5-10 to sit in the lower bowl, and too arrogant and self-entitled to sit in a perfectly suitable upper deck seat, they really ought to go see a movie or a minor league game, something that better suits the size of their puny wallet and giant ego.

See what kind of deal the Cubs offer you to sit behind a post or underneath a low roof inside the Urinal...

<rolls eyes>

GoSox2K3
05-22-2004, 03:19 PM
Your attitude sounds very Reinsdorfian! Maybe you should have replaced Gallas - you could have come up with our new slogan "White Sox baseball - if you don't like it, too freakin' bad! You're not a "real" fan and we don't want you. Go to Wrigley, we think it smells like urine!" That'll really pack them into the Cell! That'll turn Wrigley into a ghost town!!!

I'm sorry but going around saying Wrigley smells like urine and rolling your eyes isn't going to attract more fans to USCF. In fact it sort of sounds like Nero fiddling while Rome burns.

Alot of you guys on this site need to snap back to reality for a second - we're getting creamed by the Cubs in terms of market share. It's not only attendance figures and media coverage - outside of my core Sox fan friends, it's difficult to find alot of people that really give a damn about the Sox. But the good ol' diehard Sox fans will just blissfully ramble on about "real fans" and how we don't need to attract any casual fans and how Wrigley is Chicago's version of the Hanoi Hilton. Whatever make you guys feel better!

So, how are we ever going to expand the Sox fan base and following? Perhaps we should require every die-hard fan to have 8 kids since we are not interested in attracting anyone else to Sox games. :?:

PaleHoseGeorge
05-22-2004, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by GoSox2K3
Your attitude sounds very Reinsdorfian! Maybe you should have replaced Gallas - you could have come up with our new slogan "White Sox baseball - if you don't like it, too freakin' bad! You're not a "real" fan and we don't want you. Go to Wrigley, we think it smells like urine!" That'll really pack them into the Cell! That'll turn Wrigley into a ghost town!!!

I'm sorry but going around saying Wrigley smells like urine and rolling your eyes isn't going to attract more fans to USCF. In fact it sort of sounds like Nero fiddling while Rome burns.

Alot of you guys on this site need to snap back to reality for a second - we're getting creamed by the Cubs in terms of market share. It's not only attendance figures and media coverage - outside of my core Sox fan friends, it's difficult to find alot of people that really give a damn about the Sox. But the good ol' diehard Sox fans will just blissfully ramble on about "real fans" and how we don't need to attract any casual fans and how Wrigley is Chicago's version of the Hanoi Hilton. Whatever make you guys feel better!

So, how are we ever going to expand the Sox fan base and following? Perhaps we should require every die-hard fan to have 8 kids since we are not interested in attracting anyone else to Sox games. :?:

Oh brother, please don't cop an attitude simply because I poked a giant a hole in your silly assertion that letting fans sit wherever they please would actually attract *more* fans. The Cubs do just fine without doing one damned thing to attract people too cheap and too whiney to accept what they agreed to buy. The Cubs have plenty of obstructed view seats and charge plenty more than the Sox for the privilege of placing your butt into one of them. But I guess they're fan-unfriendly in the demented book of reasoning you ascribe to.

If you honestly want to challenge my notion that the lower bowl's facilities aren't designed, let alone staffed, to handle the masses who were too cheap to buy the seat they want to sit in, go right ahead and make a move to disprove it. We've set up a special killing zone for anyone foolhardy enough to attempt such a goofy line of reasoning.

Otherwise, just go right ahead and bitch, bitch, bitch. You're a fine example of what is wrong with giving added incentives to "fans" of cheap freebies -- the kind Gallas loved to cater to, and the main reason he is out a job, too.

jabrch
05-22-2004, 04:01 PM
Why in the heck are we resurrecting bad attendance threads from LAST YEAR?

Until you show me a big number of days where the lower deck and the OF are completely sold out, and we have so many people in the upper deck that are clamouring for tickets in the lowers, I don't give a crap. I buy tickets in both the upper and the lowers. I don't care. I'll sit either place. If I want to sit lower, often a $5.00 bill in the hands of an usher can get me into the lower bowl with my friends - and then finding a seat in the lowers is never a particularly had problem.

This is a bullcrap excuse. I'm tired of it.

Hangar18
05-22-2004, 04:06 PM
not to get off the subject ............I hate the upperdeck, cant See much of the game from up there, but the ROOF does look Magnificent, makes the parks profile look much more pleasing.

However, I still cant seem to grasp WHY the SOX seem to be caught with their PANTS DOWN pretty often when it comes to STAFFING the park for a certain game. I always thought they had the Same Amount of Workers come in for Every Single Game. A couple of the beer vendors anonymously told me otherwise, saying the SOX only have a certain amount show up
depending on what they think attendance will be. They say they end up working Way Harder than normal, but make more money by the end of the day.

Malgar 12
05-22-2004, 04:16 PM
Whether it hurts attendance or not, it is a stupid policy. I am going to a game this coming weekend with my nephew and we're using the granton marketing buy one get one tickets. My nephew is 5 years old and has never been to a mlb game. I think the shower would do wonders towards making him a life long sox fan, but we're unlikely to be able to do it because we'll have UD tickets. Plus we live 4 hours away so its not like we can come in to Chicago for a game every weekend.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-22-2004, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
.... However, I still cant seem to grasp WHY the SOX seem to be caught with their PANTS DOWN pretty often when it comes to STAFFING the park for a certain game. I always thought they had the Same Amount of Workers come in for Every Single Game. A couple of the beer vendors anonymously told me otherwise, saying the SOX only have a certain amount show up
depending on what they think attendance will be. They say they end up working Way Harder than normal, but make more money by the end of the day.

Well that's easy to answer. The Sox get caught with their pants down because they never have enough advance ticket sales to have any clue how many people are going to show up for the ballgame. If the weather is nice... big crowd. Weather is crappy... little crowd. You can't make a work schedule based on the 24-hour forecast. 1/2-price nights only exacerbate the problem and letting everyone sit wherever they please makes it impossible to know where the lines will back up, too.

This isn't rocket science. Advance sales and season tickets are the life-blood of any season-long entertainment business. Some people are simply too cheap and arrogant to admit it. They want to be treated like the best customer in the house without paying for it, and then they argue the point that allowing them to get something for nothing isn't costing the fans around them nor Sox management, either.

The validity of their complaints are utterly hollow.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-22-2004, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Malgar 12
Whether it hurts attendance or not, it is a stupid policy. I am going to a game this coming weekend with my nephew and we're using the granton marketing buy one get one tickets. My nephew is 5 years old and has never been to a mlb game. I think the shower would do wonders towards making him a life long sox fan, but we're unlikely to be able to do it because we'll have UD tickets. Plus we live 4 hours away so its not like we can come in to Chicago for a game every weekend.

Buy your lower bowl seats in advance. Traveling four hours to the ballpark, that would seem to be especially prudent. Problem solved.

Next.

pinwheels3530
05-22-2004, 04:21 PM
I have season tickets in section 533 row in the ud with a great view of the game, this grant me access to the lower concourse, fan deck etc..I have know problem with the policy, and I do not believe this is the reason the sox can't draw more fans. The real problem is the perception that sox fans help give the ud to fellow sox fans and casual baseball fans. The sox put a beautiful new roof, classy historical pictures on the concourse and everyone is still complaining. I could just imagine the conversation between to sox fans going to a world series game at the cell...pinwheels " I got two tickets to the the game against the Dodgers, you want to go?" Hangar "he'll ya", "where are we sitting" pinwheels " upper deck" Hangar "man that sucks I won't sit up there!"
Then sox fans wonder why people won't go to the games SOX FANS CAN YOU JUST STOP COMPLAINING FOR ONCE!!!!
You help drive the casual baseball fan away, who wants to go to a game to sit next to a bunch of grouchy fans.

voodoochile
05-22-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by pinwheels3530
I have season tickets in section 533 row in the ud with a great view of the game, this grant me access to the lower concourse, fan deck etc..I have know problem with the policy, and I do not believe this is the reason the sox can't draw more fans. The real problem is the perception that sox fans help give the ud to fellow sox fans and casual baseball fans. The sox put a beautiful new roof, classy historical pictures on the concourse and everyone is still complaining. I could just imagine the conversation between to sox fans going to a world series game at the cell...pinwheels " I got two tickets to the the game against the Dodgers, you want to go?" Hangar "he'll ya", "where are we sitting" pinwheels " upper deck" Hangar "man that sucks I won't sit up there!"
Then sox fans wonder why people won't go to the games SOX FANS CAN YOU JUST STOP COMPLAINING FOR ONCE!!!!
You help drive the casual baseball fan away, who wants to go to a game to sit next to a bunch of grouchy fans.

The Sox should hire Hooter girls to work the stands and aisle's in the UD. Trust me, the complaints would disappear immediately.

pinwheels3530
05-22-2004, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by JUGGERNAUT
I beleive the UD policy hurts attendance because I know people like myself that used to go to the games & sit in sec 500 on the rare nights the LD was sold out & would spend some time on the concourse.

US Cellular is a great park for Food & all fans I've talked to love the concourse.

This is not about price as we are willing to spend a LD price on an UD ticket for this priviledge.

Tonight's a perfect example.
There were a handful of people that talked about going to the games Mon & Tues. But don't want to sit in the UD because they don't have access to the concourse.

So it came down to getting the LD tickets or we don't go. After all the hassling on who was going to do what the LD tickets sold out. None of us work remotely close to the ballpark so getting them at the Box Office was not an option.

Now you can make all the excuses you want on what we should have done, but the fact remains because of the UD policy there are less fans going tonight.


Do you go to watch the sox win or to bitch about your seat! This is getting ridiculous, OFFICIAL WHY I WON'T GO TO A SOX GAME EXCUSE NO. 10,659 AND COUNTING!

voodoochile
05-22-2004, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by pinwheels3530
Do you go to watch the sox win or to bitch about your seat! This is getting ridiculous, OFFICIAL WHY I WON'T GO TO A SOX GAME EXCUSE NO. 10,659 AND COUNTING!

Easy now, Pinwheels, that post was from last September and the poster is long gone from the site...

PaleHoseGeorge
05-22-2004, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Easy now, Pinwheels, that post was from last September and the poster is long gone from the site...

Yes, this thread does smell a bit rank, doesn't it.

:smile:

ewokpelts
05-22-2004, 06:08 PM
This policy is inplace because of idiots that "took advantage" of the then lax security and decided to make all sox fans look like white trash. It's also due to management being too cheap to hire enough ushers/security for every section, and hiruing enough workers for the concessions/stores.
Gene

PaleHoseGeorge
05-22-2004, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
....It's also due to management being too cheap to hire enough ushers/security for every section, and hiruing enough workers for the concessions/stores.


Unfortunately this still doesn't address the fact that the mens' restrooms were backing up with anxious users,

or that every single lower bowl concession stand was opened and still suffering 10-deep lines,

or that portions of the outfield concourse were impossible to pass through because of all the extra UD ticketholders wandering around in search of empty seats or joining some impromptu party they didn't pay to attend on the lower deck.

Face it. The architects designed the lower bowl to accommodate 25,000 fans. When that number approaches 30,000+, nothing management can do will correct these problems no matter how many concessionaires and security staff they add.

You would be hard-pressed to name more than 2-3 people at WSI who are bigger critics of Jerry Reinsdorf than I am. However the UD policy is not one that I would ever blame him for -- and I blame him for plenty else.

Frank the Tank
05-22-2004, 07:13 PM
Sorry if I sound a bit redundant here, but I skipped straight to the last page (I'm too lazy to read through 5 pages). Last year I would definitely have said the UD policy would hurt attendance, but that was before I had the opportunity to sit in the UD this year. The roof really provides a welcomed feel to the seating area, and there were plenty of vendors walking around. The view was great and I really had a good time. In short, I have no problem sitting in the UD now. All of the bitches I had with sitting up there have been answered with exception of the 5 miles of walking down the ramps after the game. I think the UD would be more fun if it could attract more of a crowd. I suggest management cuts the UD ticket prices a bit more and maybe sell beer and food at a discount.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-22-2004, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
Sorry if I sound a bit redundant here, but I skipped straight to the last page (I'm too lazy to read through 5 pages). Last year I would definitely have said the UD policy would hurt attendance, but that was before I had the opportunity to sit in the UD this year. The roof really provides a welcomed feel to the seating area, and there were plenty of vendors walking around. The view was great and I really had a good time. In short, I have no problem sitting in the UD now. All of the bitches I had with sitting up there have been answered with exception of the 5 miles of walking down the ramps after the game. I think the UD would be more fun if it could attract more of a crowd. I suggest management cuts the UD ticket prices a bit more and maybe sell beer and food at a discount.

Now *this* is constructive advice.

You're a good Sox Fan. Be fruitful and multiply.

:smile:

Malgar 12
05-22-2004, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Buy your lower bowl seats in advance. Traveling four hours to the ballpark, that would seem to be especially prudent. Problem solved.

Next.

No. Not next. Do you work for the Sox or what? The enthusiasm with which you're defending this policy boggles me. I shouldn't have to pay for a Lower deck seat just to see the rain room or the shower. On weekends its already 20 bucks for a decent upper deck seat (plus parking). And when Im already shelling out 2 dollars a gallon to get there it makes it less prudent not more. If I could afford lower deck seats I would buy them. If I buy four upper deck tickets thats 80 dollars, plus parking plus gas. (I try to make more than one trip a year and every dollar counts)

Some of us can't afford to pay for the lower deck, and the point is we shouldn't have to buy LD just to see the shower. That's why I bought the coupons, which by the way, restrict you to the UD.

Of course you'll probably argue its only 6 dollars more for bleacher seats, but you gotta draw a line somewhere, and that's $24 more for 4 seats. That's significant.

Restrict me to the UD during the game fine, but let people roam the park pregame.

It all seems short sighted to me. If you're trying to build your fan base, you want all of them (UD or otherwise) to see all your ammenities. You make a nice pitch like the granton mkting 2 for 1 deal and then you don't let those people see the whole park. I was hooked on the Sox in 1982 when my dad brought me to Old Comiskey. My nephew is 5 and he could be the same way, but he won't see the shower, the fan shop, the rain room or the fan deck. That my friends is BAD Marketing plain and simple.

Frank the Tank
05-22-2004, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by Malgar 12


I shouldn't have to pay for a Lower deck seat just to see the rain room or the shower. Some of us can't afford to pay for the lower deck, and the point is we shouldn't have to buy LD just to see the shower. That's why I bought the coupons, which by the way, restrict you to the UD.




If you have an upper deck ticket, you could sit in the shade under the roof. You shouldn't need to cool off in the shower. Problem Solved.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-22-2004, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
If you have an upper deck ticket, you could sit in the shade under the roof. You shouldn't need to cool off in the shower. Problem Solved.

Malgar doesn't know there is a rain shower on the UD concourse, too.

Solving the "problems" of distraught Sox Fans is an endless and sometimes thankless task. :smile:

TornLabrum
05-22-2004, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by Malgar 12
[In reference to PHG]: Do you work for the Sox or what?

This is the funniest thing I've ever read on this board!

BigFrankFan
05-23-2004, 01:22 AM
My problem with the UD policy is that on the days the team does draw enough to fill the LD & have fans in the UD the people in the UD don't get to experience the joy of walking the concourse of LD. I don't care what the media says, I've been to ball parks & the concourse at the Cell is one of the best in baseball. It is always buzzing with people & most casual fans that I go to games with love to walk it. We usually walk the whole concourse & then stop in the bar in RF before returning to our seats.

I never had a problem with the Cell being referred to as the ball mall because it was the best damn ball mall there was. The only problem I had with the UD is that it gets bitterly cold up there on bad weather nights. It is an awesome place to view fireworks on fireworks nights! But having sat in there this year maybe it's a psych thing but the roof makes a big difference. The game sounds louder & the roof makes you feel warmer. Plus you can see hints of the skyline through the transparent walls if you are on the 1B side & look over to the empty seats on the 3B side.

I don't have a problem with the policy in terms of security but I do believe the SOX owe it to the fans to juice up the UD concourse so that it's so attractive that LD people want to check it out. In my opinion this will win the hearts of repeat attendance more than anything else. Get the fans to ENJOY both levels of the park!

One thing I was dissapointed in with the changes was the translucent wall. When I first read about I was anxious to see what it would be like to go up there & look out on to the city. Sort of like a sky deck. But there is concrete high enough to where you only can bldgs higher than the stadium looking up. I think that's a mistake. I think they should have taken more of a Sears tower approach & let you walk right up to reinforced bulletproof plexiglass. Not everywhere of course, but certainly on the 3B side. The SOX fan base comes predominantly from families with kids on the weekends & commuters on the weekdays. Kids love to look out from tall bldgs on to skylines. It never gets old for them. Imagine taking your young child to the UD & the first thing he says when he gets in the car after the game is "looking at downtown from the UD is so cool!". That's how you increase the fan base both in the present & future.

This seems to me a simple change to make & I hope the SOX consider it. It seems to me you could add a shower to the UD concourse as well & a bar shouldn't be out of the question either.
Most fans I know (casual & diehards) like to walk around the LD concourse & look at the history of the SOX. I think this is a good thing to put in the UD concourse as well only make it different history. How many bars in Chicago offer a skyline view of the city?
This would be a good item to market. The bullpen bar is always crowded to capacity. So an UD bar would probably pull a decent crowd. If you create reasons to go to the UD people will want to go there. I know I would!

PaleHoseGeorge
05-23-2004, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by BigFrankFan
My problem with the UD policy is that on the days the team does draw enough to fill the LD & have fans in the UD the people in the UD don't get to experience the joy of walking the concourse of LD....

First, there already *is* a rain shower on the UD concourse to cool off UD patrons on hot muggy days. Second, you never could see the Chicago skyline from anywhere on the UD concourse (or from the seats) *unless* you left the concourse and went out to one of the ramps. As for complaints about the transluscent wall (that's the wall enclosing the concourse, not the roof!), it was specifically designed to eliminate the very problem you were bitching about, how cold it gets on bad weather nights. The transluscent wall eliminates the wind tunnel effect.

I don't know what it will ever take for Sox Fans to stop whining about their ballpark. I'm more convinced than ever that some of you won't stop bitching about this ballpark until an entirely new one is built... and then you'll find fault with that one, too. Fat chance any of this will ever happen.

There are design issues with Sox Park that simply can't be fixed, like orienting the diamond to face downtown. The Sox and the state have spent another $80 million to correct problems on a ballpark whose entire construction costs amounted to only $130 million to build just 13 years ago.

I'm more than happy to join the chorus and tag 100 percent of the blame on that idiot Jerry Reinsdorf for shoving this ballpark design down everybody else's throat. Unfortunately we're now simply stuck with what we've got and the improvements (like the new UD roof and improved UD concourse) are welcomed and greatly appreciated.

The current set of complaints are nothing less than a bad reflection on the people spouting them. Count me out of your number.

TornLabrum
05-23-2004, 10:15 AM
It's the kind of gripes we're seeing in this thread that has Sox fans pegged by the media as being whiney *******s: complaints about needed improvements that are already there, complaints about not now being able to see things that you never could see in the first place....

Here's a thought. Stay away from The Cell. Then you won't have anything to complain about.

Malgar 12
05-23-2004, 10:52 AM
My gripes, as you call them are completely logical, and no one seems to respond to them with anything other than "you're a negative Sox fan, who can only find bad things about the Cell."

Actually I like the Cell and always have, and my complaint is with a policy of the Sox, that impacts my ability to enjoy the park. The policy is facetious and I'm being totally reasonable in pointing it out. If the policy had any legs it would have been instituted long before the Gamboa incident. The Sox didn't seem to have problem in 91-94 when the attendance was much higher.

I have not yet said this is the reason the Sox don't draw 30k a game. I am only pointing out that when I was kid Comiskey was amazing to me, and was a big part of making me a Sox fan. The shower in left field is one of the unique things that makes the Sox the Sox. Every kid, ever customer should be able to experience it.

Whining is when your complaints are unreasonable.
This is not.

by the way, the "Do you work for the Sox?" was sarcastic to express my dismay over the enthusiam with which you defend this policy. Sorry I forgot the teal. We can disagree and still both be passionate loyal Sox fans. :smile:

TornLabrum
05-23-2004, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Malgar 12
My gripes, as you call them are completely logical, and no one seems to respond to them with anything other than "you're a negative Sox fan, who can only find bad things about the Cell."

Actually I like the Cell and always have, and my complaint is with a policy of the Sox, that impacts my ability to enjoy the park. The policy is facetious and I'm being totally reasonable in pointing it out. If the policy had any legs it would have been instituted long before the Gamboa incident. The Sox didn't seem to have problem in 91-94 when the attendance was much higher.

I have not yet said this is the reason the Sox don't draw 30k a game. I am only pointing out that when I was kid Comiskey was amazing to me, and was a big part of making me a Sox fan. The shower in left field is one of the unique things that makes the Sox the Sox. Every kid, ever customer should be able to experience it.

Whining is when your complaints are unreasonable.
This is not.

by the way, the "Do you work for the Sox?" was sarcastic to express my dismay over the enthusiam with which you defend this policy. Sorry I forgot the teal. We can disagree and still both be passionate loyal Sox fans. :smile:

Look...the policy was put in because of Ligue and Dybas. It isn't going to change. Period. MLB has dictated that to the Sox. Go talk to Bud and leave us alone.

Frank the Tank
05-23-2004, 04:40 PM
I don't understand why people cry that they can't afford to sit in the lower bowl. A bleacher ticket will cost you $11 on a 1/2 price Monday or Tuesday. Try to convince me that you can't afford an $11 ticket. The UD policy stems further than simply to prevent white trash from attacking people on the field. I can assure you that:
1. White trash are fully capable of paying $11 for a bleacher seat and getting into the lower bowl
2. "rich people" who sit in the lower bowl are just as good at making asses out of themselves when they are drunk.
The main good of the policy is to prevent the over-crowding of the lower deck concourse. Ever try to use the bathroom when 30,000+ are down there? With the modifications made to make the UD more fan-friendly, there really is no reason to complain. I do like the idea of putting a bar in the UD. I would really like to see an ESPN zone up there.

jabrch
05-23-2004, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Malgar 12
No. Not next. Do you work for the Sox or what? The enthusiasm with which you're defending this policy boggles me. I shouldn't have to pay for a Lower deck seat just to see the rain room or the shower. On weekends its already 20 bucks for a decent upper deck seat (plus parking). And when Im already shelling out 2 dollars a gallon to get there it makes it less prudent not more. If I could afford lower deck seats I would buy them. If I buy four upper deck tickets thats 80 dollars, plus parking plus gas. (I try to make more than one trip a year and every dollar counts)

Some of us can't afford to pay for the lower deck, and the point is we shouldn't have to buy LD just to see the shower. That's why I bought the coupons, which by the way, restrict you to the UD.

Of course you'll probably argue its only 6 dollars more for bleacher seats, but you gotta draw a line somewhere, and that's $24 more for 4 seats. That's significant.

Restrict me to the UD during the game fine, but let people roam the park pregame.

It all seems short sighted to me. If you're trying to build your fan base, you want all of them (UD or otherwise) to see all your ammenities. You make a nice pitch like the granton mkting 2 for 1 deal and then you don't let those people see the whole park. I was hooked on the Sox in 1982 when my dad brought me to Old Comiskey. My nephew is 5 and he could be the same way, but he won't see the shower, the fan shop, the rain room or the fan deck. That my friends is BAD Marketing plain and simple.

Tip the kid who is the usher $5.00 - I mean that - FIVE WHOLE DOLLARS - and you won't have a problem getting down into the lower level. If you give him $10, he will smile too.

RedPinStripes
05-23-2004, 04:53 PM
I personally dont like sitting in the UD . Not just USCF, but any UD in any park. So ya know what i do? Spend 30.00 well before the game to make sure i have a lower deck seat and i can rome the concourse. It works out pretty well 15-20 times a year for me.

joecrede
05-23-2004, 04:54 PM
I don't understand the fascination with the lower deck as compared to the upper deck other than the quality of seat.

RedPinStripes
05-23-2004, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I don't understand the fascination with the lower deck as compared to the upper deck other than the quality of seat.

exactly. It's a better seat. If i really want to go to a game and dont have achoice but the UD, I'll sit there, but if i can help it I make sure i sit in the lower deck. There are plenty of people who dont mind it. And i know there are a **** load more that love the lower deck. There's no reason why the lower bowl shouldnt be sold out every game. That's 25,000 right there.

TornLabrum
05-23-2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
I don't understand why people cry that they can't afford to sit in the lower bowl. A bleacher ticket will cost you $11 on a 1/2 price Monday or Tuesday. Try to convince me that you can't afford an $11 ticket. The UD policy stems further than simply to prevent white trash from attacking people on the field. I can assure you that:
1. White trash are fully capable of paying $11 for a bleacher seat and getting into the lower bowl
2. "rich people" who sit in the lower bowl are just as good at making asses out of themselves when they are drunk.
The main good of the policy is to prevent the over-crowding of the lower deck concourse. Ever try to use the bathroom when 30,000+ are down there? With the modifications made to make the UD more fan-friendly, there really is no reason to complain. I do like the idea of putting a bar in the UD. I would really like to see an ESPN zone up there.

That may be the main good of the policy, but it was instituted on the heels of the Dybas incident, which came less than a year after the Ligue incident. And that's why it won't change anytime soon.

BigFrankFan
05-23-2004, 08:29 PM
You completely misunderstood my post!
I was complaining about the translucent wall I was praising it!
I was complaining that concrete prevents you from looking out on to the city skyline along the 3B side in the UD concourse. Karumba!

Maybe it's just me but it seems that you just like to paste certain quotes from people & bash them :?:

Now I listened to your argument that people should come up with the $'s to sit in the LD. So I focused on those games where the LD is sold out & the UD is all that's left. Grant it, it's rare but it does happen. The point is these are days when the casual fan comes to the ball park. Not just the die-hards, but the casuals. The most important policy should be one that ENCOURAGES the casual fan to come back. Now if security demands that the two sections be restricted then the SOX owe it to the fans to JUICE up the UD.

I personally don't buy the security argument when you consider the number of UD fans to LD fans so I think the policy is a bad one & does work against the SOX ability to retain the casual fan's interest. Why is it that the Shrine does not require such security policies & yet averages 15,000 more fans a game than the SOX?

voodoochile
05-23-2004, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by BigFrankFan
You completely misunderstood my post!
I was complaining about the translucent wall I was praising it!
I was complaining that concrete prevents you from looking out on to the city skyline along the 3B side in the UD concourse. Karumba!

Maybe it's just me but it seems that you just like to paste certain quotes from people & bash them :?:

Now I listened to your argument that people should come up with the $'s to sit in the LD. So I focused on those games where the LD is sold out & the UD is all that's left. Grant it, it's rare but it does happen. The point is these are days when the casual fan comes to the ball park. Not just the die-hards, but the casuals. The most important policy should be one that ENCOURAGES the casual fan to come back. Now if security demands that the two sections be restricted then the SOX owe it to the fans to JUICE up the UD.

I personally don't buy the security argument when you consider the number of UD fans to LD fans so I think the policy is a bad one & does work against the SOX ability to retain the casual fan's interest. Why is it that the Shrine does not require such security policies & yet averages 15,000 more fans a game than the SOX?

Actually, having a shortage of a product is good for it's marketability. Those casual fans will be forced to buy their tickets earlier next time if they want access and maybe even buy season tickets. That increases demand and that in turn drives attendance.

Your argument actually works the other way from an economic standpoint. Of course that does depend on the Sox having a product that is exciting and brings those fans back.

dickallen15
05-23-2004, 10:23 PM
The current policy has been in effect for several games since the park opened. MLB advised the White Sox to make this the permanent policy. They aren't going to change it. They can't change it. People running on to the field and attacking coaches and umpires can happen anywhere. Unfortunately for those who wish to buy upper deck tickets and sit in the lower deck, it happened at USCF twice. You can whine about it all you want, but if you want to sit in the lower bowl, buy a ticket in the lower bowl.

TornLabrum
05-23-2004, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
The current policy has been in effect for several games since the park opened. MLB advised the White Sox to make this the permanent policy. They aren't going to change it. They can't change it. People running on to the field and attacking coaches and umpires can happen anywhere. Unfortunately for those who wish to buy upper deck tickets and sit in the lower deck, it happened at USCF twice. You can whine about it all you want, but if you want to sit in the lower bowl, buy a ticket in the lower bowl.

Correct on at least two counts:

1) The Sox always did this in sellouts such as Cubs series.

2) Since MLB instituted it, it isn't going to change anytime soon.

RedPinStripes
05-23-2004, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Correct on at least two counts:

1) The Sox always did this in sellouts such as Cubs series.

2) Since MLB instituted it, it isn't going to change anytime soon.

They even did it at the old park when it filled up. Not because there was so much to do down stairs or a lot of room, but drunks would fight over seats in late innings. I'm sure there will be stores and all that in the UD soon. Until then. My way works fine . I sit in the lower deck with my 32 ****in dollar ticket on weekends.

:reinsy
"Cut pay roll raise prices.........blame the fans. business 101 . Got that Kenny?

:KW
draft is coming sir. Can i have money to sign the kids?

:reinsy
Speak when spoken to nipple head!

:KW "But you were speaking to me.

:reinsy
Get some hs arms.

CubKilla
05-23-2004, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
:reinsy
"Cut pay roll raise prices.........blame the fans. business 101 . Got that Kenny?

:KW
draft is coming sir. Can i have money to sign the kids?

:reinsy
Speak when spoken to nipple head!

:KW "But you were speaking to me.

:reinsy
Get some hs arms.

Good stuff RPS :)