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voodoochile
09-04-2003, 12:13 AM
Okay, anyone else got any questions on whether this idiot should be managing a big league club? Isn't that his bestest bud waving the tying run around third only to watch them get gunned down by 10 feet with one out in the ninth? Isn't it him who shorted the team of it's fastest pinch runner by putting that all-glove-no-hit player in as a defensive substitution in a tied game when they were due up 4th in the 9th inning? Didn't both of those moves completely crush the Sox when the slower runner was thrown out at home and the weak hitter then struck out looking with the winning run still at third and two away? Isn't that Jerry himself who left Sullivan in to face Ortiz who had already homered once in the game?

Come on Manuel defenders. I want to hear you explain how everyone of these moves is acceptable in the middle of a pennant race with the team clinging to a 1/2-game lead.

:firejerry

It should have been done a LONG time ago...

Jjav829
09-04-2003, 12:16 AM
You don't actually think that hes going to be fired this year, do you? I don't know if a manager on a first place team has ever been fired in September but if it hasn't, this certainly won't be the first time. Manuel is here for this year so I am gonna focus on this team. Hopefully hes gone in the offseason but there is really little reason to harp on firing Manuel now when there isn't a chance in hell of it happening.

voodoochile
09-04-2003, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829
You don't actually think that hes going to be fired this year, do you? I don't know if a manager on a first place team has ever been fired in September but if it hasn't, this certainly won't be the first time. Manuel is here for this year so I am gonna focus on this team. Hopefully hes gone in the offseason but there is really little reason to harp on firing Manuel now when there isn't a chance in hell of it happening.

No, I don't think he will be fired this year and in the end, that is probably for the best. I don't see a new manager suddenly riding this team to the playoffs, but I hope that someone in the upper management takes a look at tonight's game and says, "What the **** was that all about? Are you really that stupid, Jerry? Are you ever going to stop playing not to lose and start taking some chances to win a game?"

Do you realize that when the Sox tried a hit-and-run on Sunday, it actually caught my attention because I cannot remember the last time they tried one? This man is an idiot. He has no insight into the game, no original thinking, no ability to motivate players and he has no luck at all. Somethings just need killing. Jerry's job is one of them...

Jjav829
09-04-2003, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
No, I don't think he will be fired this year and in the end, that is probably for the best. I don't see a new manager suddenly riding this team to the playoffs, but I hope that someone in the upper management takes a look at tonight's game and says, "What the **** was that all about? Are you really that stupid, Jerry? Are you ever going to stop playing not to lose and start taking some chances to win a game?"

Do you realize that when the Sox tried a hit-and-run on Sunday, it actually caught my attention because I cannot remember the last time they tried one? This man is an idiot. He has no insight into the game, no original thinking, no ability to motivate players and he has no luck at all. Somethings just need killing. Jerry's job is one of them...

Yeah I know what you mean. He really might be the worst manager in baseball. I hope the Sox wake up in the offseason and realize how bad Manuel truly is, but for now we are stuck with him.

TornLabrum
09-04-2003, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Okay, anyone else got any questions on whether this idiot should be managing a big league club? Isn't that his bestest bud waving the tying run around third only to watch them get gunned down by 10 feet with one out in the ninth? Isn't it him who shorted the team of it's fastest pinch runner by putting that all-glove-no-hit player in as a defensive substitution in a tied game when they were due up 4th in the 9th inning? Didn't both of those moves completely crush the Sox when the slower runner was thrown out at home and the weak hitter then struck out looking with the winning run still at third and two away? Isn't that Jerry himself who left Sullivan in to face Ortiz who had already homered once in the game?

Come on Manuel defenders. I want to hear you explain how everyone of these moves is acceptable in the middle of a pennant race with the team clinging to a 1/2-game lead.

:firejerry

It should have been done a LONG time ago...

You forgot leaving Sullivan in after walking the first batter to face a lefty when Marte was warming up.

voodoochile
09-04-2003, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
You forgot leaving Sullivan in after walking the first batter to face a lefty when Marte was warming up.

Actually, I mentioned it, but blew the homerun comment about Ortiz. That was his first home run. I was just confused. Ortiz did drive in the first inning run, but it was with a single.

The homer in the tenth was a totally different animal. Everyone in the park, including Flash thought Ortiz should have been rung up on the pitch before he homered for the winning run. Everyone except the one person who mattered. Strange night for the HP ump tonight. The corner he called seemed to shift around a lot. Don't want to blame the umps when the Sox shot themselves in the foot so many times, but it was noticeable how bad this guy was...

pudge
09-04-2003, 12:54 AM
The wave by Kimm was the right move, because Harris was up next... the two biggies are not bringing in Marte (as usual!) and subbing out Everett for a guy who can't even play center field that well.

voodoochile
09-04-2003, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by pudge
The wave by Kimm was the right move, because Harris was up next... the two biggies are not bringing in Marte (as usual!) and subbing out Everett for a guy who can't even play center field that well.

When a guy is out by that many feet, it cannot be the right move. You can't judge a wave based on what might happen next, but on whether you think the guy will score or not. If Kimm thought Rowand could score than he needs a new job.

Why not pinch hit with Rios if Harris is a sure out (which he is)?

34 Inch Stick
09-04-2003, 09:31 AM
Voodoo, you know I am in the fire Manuel camp as well but the goat horns belong to Magglio today.

thepaulbowski
09-04-2003, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Actually, I mentioned it, but blew the homerun comment about Ortiz. That was his first home run. I was just confused. Ortiz did drive in the first inning run, but it was with a single.

The homer in the tenth was a totally different animal. Everyone in the park, including Flash thought Ortiz should have been rung up on the pitch before he homered for the winning run. Everyone except the one person who mattered. Strange night for the HP ump tonight. The corner he called seemed to shift around a lot. Don't want to blame the umps when the Sox shot themselves in the foot so many times, but it was noticeable how bad this guy was...

These fire JM threads are getting old, but is it Jerry's fault that Maggs couldn't hit with the bases loaded. I'm not a Jerry fan, but c'mon you leave the bases loaded twice, you aren't going to win many games against good teams like the Red Sox. The game should have been blown wide open before this and it wouldn't have been an issue. Also, the ump may have been bad...but how many times did the Sox swing at the first pitch and ground into dp's or fly out....a lot. The ump didn't make them do that. The Sox offense is the reason they lost, not the pitching.

thepaulbowski
09-04-2003, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
When a guy is out by that many feet, it cannot be the right move. You can't judge a wave based on what might happen next, but on whether you think the guy will score or not. If Kimm thought Rowand could score than he needs a new job.

Why not pinch hit with Rios if Harris is a sure out (which he is)?

No matter what he did people would of complained. I think he did the right thing...he put the pressure on the defense. You need to take chances to win games and sometimes they don't work.

bobj4400
09-04-2003, 09:47 AM
I was at the game last night, and everyone around me could not believe that Sullivan was allowed to pitch to Ortiz when Marte was ready in the bullpen. Then after the homerun and Sullivan allows another baserunner, Marte came in to turn around Varitek and make him bat righty. Why the crowd wasnt booing Manuel off the field was beyond me.

Kimm should not have had to make the decision to wave home Rowand b/c the game shouldnt have gone that far.


The worst part about the whole thing was that after Ortiz drove in his first three runs, Gordon was allowed to pitch to him in the 10th so he could beat us one more time. Wunsch or Schoeneweis should have been brought in then...but our manager never learns a lesson. He only bangs his head against the wall a little harder.

Like I said a few months ago...only two outcomes to this season and both good:

1) Sox make the playoffs

2) The Tinkerer is axed

kevingrt
09-04-2003, 10:00 AM
So what would our record be with lets say Bobby V, Wally Beckman, or someone else in the dugout?

ssang
09-04-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by kevingrt
So what would our record be with lets say Bobby V, Wally Beckman, or someone else in the dugout?


Our record would be 82-57. Heck, even with you, me, or anyone else on this board we'd be 9 games better. A difference of 9 games. That is what manuel is worth in the standings. A total of -9 games.

cheeses_h_rice
09-04-2003, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
No matter what he did people would of complained. I think he did the right thing...he put the pressure on the defense. You need to take chances to win games and sometimes they don't work.

I agree. Ramirez is a butcher in left, so there was a good chance he would muff the relay to Nomar, and Nomar had to make a great throw to get Aaron.

I do wish Aaron ran the bases a little tighter, and, oh yeah, maybe slide when the catcher has the ball at shoulder height?

voodoochile
09-04-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I agree. Ramirez is a butcher in left, so there was a good chance he would muff the relay to Nomar, and Nomar had to make a great throw to get Aaron.

I do wish Aaron ran the bases a little tighter, and, oh yeah, maybe slide when the catcher has the ball at shoulder height?

Cheeses, the catcher was 5 feet up the line and had plenty of time to tag Rowand no matter what he did. It wasn't even close.

voodoochile
09-04-2003, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by thepaulbowski
These fire JM threads are getting old, but is it Jerry's fault that Maggs couldn't hit with the bases loaded. I'm not a Jerry fan, but c'mon you leave the bases loaded twice, you aren't going to win many games against good teams like the Red Sox. The game should have been blown wide open before this and it wouldn't have been an issue. Also, the ump may have been bad...but how many times did the Sox swing at the first pitch and ground into dp's or fly out....a lot. The ump didn't make them do that. The Sox offense is the reason they lost, not the pitching.

In theory, I agree. BUT, once that didn't happen, the management team has to do a better job late. They didn't. Are you saying that everytime the offense fails to execute earlier in the game, it is okay for management to make a bunch of crappy decisions because the game "should already be over"?

Aren't close games when the team isn't executing well exactly when a manager/coaching staff are supposed to make the difference? Well, last night they did...

RKMeibalane
09-04-2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Aren't close games when the team isn't executing well exactly when a manager/coaching staff are supposed to make the difference? Well, last night they did...

I agree, but either way, Manuel couldn't even manage to stay around for the end of the game because he got thrown out after bitching about a called third-strike. I really didn't think the call was that bad. That umpire was terrible, but I've seen more than my share of at-bats that ended with someone being called out on a backdoor curve ball.

Manuel really needs to stop doing that bob and weeve thing when he's yelling at an umpire. I was too busy laughing at him to realize that he had been tossed. I didn't know until a replay was shown.

RedPinStripes
09-04-2003, 09:42 PM
As PHG posted in another thread. "Manuel will be fired the day after the Sox are eliminated" (from winning the division) Sad that they couldnt see how clueless he was in 2000's post season.

OEO Magglio
09-04-2003, 10:26 PM
No matter what he did people would of complained. I think he did the right thing...he put the pressure on the defense. You need to take chances to win games and sometimes they don't work.
NO, you put pressure on the defense when you actually have a chance to score the run, rowand just hit 3rd base when Nomar got the ball, it wasn't a close play, and you can't take that chance with one out no matter what, even with willie harris up next. And for those of you who said manny is usually a butcher in left, fine, but the fact is bruce could have stopped rowand because he just tagged 3rd base, it was a dumb call by bruce.

soxtalker
09-04-2003, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
As PHG posted in another thread. "Manuel will be fired the day after the Sox are eliminated" (from winning the division) Sad that they couldnt see how clueless he was in 2000's post season.

Interesting/sad that the debate may just come down to guessing whether JM will be fired the day they are eliminated or after the last game.

gosox41
09-05-2003, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Interesting/sad that the debate may just come down to guessing whether JM will be fired the day they are eliminated or after the last game.

The sooner the better.

Bob