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cheeses_h_rice
09-03-2003, 09:57 PM
I think it's pretty apparent that both Central divisions will be decided by a few games at most. The Sox have decided to share the division lead for the moment with the Twins, while the Flubs will be at worst out of first by a game after tonight, and at best by only half a game.

If the Sox fail to make the playoffs and if the Flubs do, I think that will be the final nail in the coffin for this franchise, at least in this city. The Sox are, in my estimation, BY FAR the better team, so if they don't win this division, it will be one of the supreme feats of underachievement in all my years of Sox fandom. The Flubs are a decent team with a few superlative starting pitchers and a basher or two in their lineup, but that's it, yet they're winning, while their sweaty-palmed divisional 'rivals' can't seem to string together 3 wins in a row.

The freaking blue-pajama-clad lemmings are multiplying, at least from what I've seen downtown and on the El. If the Flubs win their division, the Sox must win theirs or else they will have lost their only real chance of gaining new fans who are on the fence, and even that will be a struggle. If the Flubs win the division and the Sox choke, watch out -- it's going to get ugly.

SouthBendSox
09-03-2003, 09:58 PM
very true

very true

oheeoh...magglio
09-03-2003, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I think it's pretty apparent that both Central divisions will be decided by a few games at most. The Sox have decided to share the division lead for the moment with the Twins, while the Flubs will be at worst out of first by a game after tonight, and at best by only half a game.

If the Sox fail to make the playoffs and if the Flubs do, I think that will be the final nail in the coffin for this franchise, at least in this city. The Sox are, in my estimation, BY FAR the better team, so if they don't win this division, it will be one of the supreme feats of underachievement in all my years of Sox fandom. The Flubs are a decent team with a few superlative starting pitchers and a basher or two in their lineup, but that's it, yet they're winning, while their sweaty-palmed divisional 'rivals' can't seem to string together 3 wins in a row.

The freaking blue-pajama-clad lemmings are multiplying, at least from what I've seen downtown and on the El. If the Flubs win their division, the Sox must win theirs or else they will have lost their only real chance of gaining new fans who are on the fence, and even that will be a struggle. If the Flubs win the division and the Sox choke, watch out -- it's going to get ugly.

I don't know what is scarier, those comments, or the fact that many of them are likely true...

PaleHoseGeorge
09-03-2003, 10:00 PM
They'll never take me alive. If they come for me, I'm taking a dozen out with me.

:cool:

cheeses_h_rice
09-03-2003, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
They'll never take me alive. If they come for me, I'm taking a dozen out with me.

:cool:

Psst! Follow me, George -- I have a route planned up I-94 to Milwaukee, to freedom, glorious freedom!!!

RKMeibalane
09-03-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
They'll never take me alive. If they come for me, I'm taking a dozen out with me.

:cool:

Are you planning on using one of Daver's assault rifles? :D:

RKMeibalane
09-03-2003, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Psst! Follow me, George -- I have a route planned up I-94 to Milwaukee, to freedom, glorious freedom!!!

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Remember who is currently in Milwaukee...

:hitless

"Hi, guys!"

:ohno

"What did we do to deserve this?"

FJA
09-03-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I think it's pretty apparent that both Central divisions will be decided by a few games at most. The Sox have decided to share the division lead for the moment with the Twins, while the Flubs will be at worst out of first by a game after tonight, and at best by only half a game.

If the Sox fail to make the playoffs and if the Flubs do, I think that will be the final nail in the coffin for this franchise, at least in this city. The Sox are, in my estimation, BY FAR the better team, so if they don't win this division, it will be one of the supreme feats of underachievement in all my years of Sox fandom. The Flubs are a decent team with a few superlative starting pitchers and a basher or two in their lineup, but that's it, yet they're winning, while their sweaty-palmed divisional 'rivals' can't seem to string together 3 wins in a row.

The freaking blue-pajama-clad lemmings are multiplying, at least from what I've seen downtown and on the El. If the Flubs win their division, the Sox must win theirs or else they will have lost their only real chance of gaining new fans who are on the fence, and even that will be a struggle. If the Flubs win the division and the Sox choke, watch out -- it's going to get ugly.

You're right, and it sucks. I don't think I want to watch the local news or the national sports news tonight or pick up the papers tomorrow. Because the Flubs will play today's win like they won the World Series, and it's only going to get worse until we start winning.

Hell, I feel so beaten by today's events, I'm seriously thinking about going to the Urinal tomorrow and cheering my ass off for the Cards just to work off some frustration.

cheeses_h_rice
09-03-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
I wouldn't be so sure of that. Remember who is currently in Milwaukee...

:hitless

"Hi, guys!"

:ohno

"What did we do to deserve this?"

Oh well.

At least

:jaime

isn't there anymore. Can't win 'em all...

:)

Lip Man 1
09-03-2003, 10:06 PM
Let's put it this way, already I have heard and seen talk of Cubs "destiny," a la after what Sandberg did to the Cardinals in June of 1984.

And what can you say after the way the Twins won today?

Now what did the Sox do tonight? It wasn't bad enough that they lost but how they lost.

Destiny, fate, karma....call it whatever you wish but the Sox never have it do they?

If the Cubs ever get to a World Series before the Sox you can pack up the moving trucks...it's over.

Lip

WhiteSox = Life
09-03-2003, 10:08 PM
The worst thing about all of this is that these last two games have sucked the life out of the fans. I hate to say it, but I'm feeling apathetic toward the Sox. I'm still rooting for them and hope they'll win, but I almost expect them to lose now. It's a horrible feeling, but it's present. I want to feel right again, and the Sox need to guide me along.

In other words, they need to get their [stuff] together tomorrow and beat Cleveland. If they don't... Well, no reason to finish this sentence...

I must say, though:

Go, Sox. Prove it to me, guys. Prove it.

:smile:

SoxOnTop
09-03-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Psst! Follow me, George -- I have a route planned up I-94 to Milwaukee, to freedom, glorious freedom!!!

I wouldn't exactly call Milwaukee "glorious freedom". Unless of course I've got a brat and it's Summerfest!

oheeoh...magglio
09-03-2003, 10:10 PM
If the cubs took over this town and the sox had to move or something, i don't know what i would do....

RKMeibalane
09-03-2003, 10:11 PM
Fast-forward to April, 2004...

:hurt -------------------------------------> http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/mlb/images/team_logos/50x50/la.gif

cheeses_h_rice
09-03-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Let's put it this way, already I have heard and seen talk of Cubs "destiny," a la after what Sandberg did to the Cardinals in June of 1984.

And what can you say after the way the Twins won today?

Now what did the Sox do tonight? It wasn't bad enough that they lost but how they lost.

Destiny, fate, karma....call it whatever you wish but the Sox never have it do they?

If the Cubs ever get to a World Series before the Sox you can pack up the moving trucks...it's over.

Lip

OK, now I'll try to be optimistic here...

The Sox are still in first. Or tied for it, so there's that -- I think back in May we all would have taken the Sox in this position, right?

The Sox are the only AL Central contender that has avoided the injury bug. Remember our motley crew of injured vets being replaced by one rookie after another in the second half of 2000? At least we are at full strength going down the stretch run.

The Astros are winning tonight, so the Flubs will hopefully still be in third place tonight.

There, that's better. (Right?)

MarqSox
09-03-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
The worst thing about all of this is that these last two games have sucked the life out of the fans. I hate to say it, but I'm feeling apathetic toward the Sox. I'm still rooting for them and hope they'll win, but I almost expect them to lose now. It's a horrible feeling, but it's present. I want to feel right again, and the Sox need to guide me along.

I was thinking the same thing ... two days ago, I turned on the Sox game expecting they'd win. Now, I feel like they're underdogs, even against the Indians at home. Maybe it's just the requisite fickleness that marks Sox fans ... but it's a feeling I can't shake. Maybe I just need to sleep on it ...

oheeoh...magglio
09-03-2003, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
OK, now I'll try to be optimistic here...

The Sox are still in first. Or tied for it, so there's that -- I think back in May we all would have taken the Sox in this position, right?

The Sox are the only AL Central contender that has avoided the injury bug. Remember our motley crew of injured vets being replaced by one rookie after another in the second half of 2000? At least we are at full strength going down the stretch run.

The Astros are winning tonight, so the Flubs will hopefully still be in third place tonight.

There, that's better. (Right?)

Yeah it is actually, and you forgot the cubs have estes pitching tomorrow :)

PaleHoseGeorge
09-03-2003, 10:19 PM
You know it is a bad day when the best you can say about it is that the Astros are winning.

:whiner:

RKMeibalane
09-03-2003, 10:21 PM
Here, this wil cheer everyone up... :D:

http://www.geocities.com/meibalane/cheeks.jpg

FJA
09-03-2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
You know it is a bad day when the best you can say about it is that the Astros are winning.

:whiner:

I agree. I appreciate the effort to cheer us all up, cheeses, but you just can't put a good spin on this day. This has just been a horrible day for White Sox fans.

WhiteSox = Life
09-03-2003, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Here, this wil cheer everyone up... :D:

http://www.geocities.com/meibalane/cheeks.jpg

I'm not getting any picture...

:?:

RKMeibalane
09-03-2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
I'm not getting any picture...

:?:

http://www.geocities.com/meibalane/cheeks.jpg

Type this in. The link won't work, for some reason.

WhiteSox = Life
09-03-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
http://www.geocities.com/meibalane/cheeks.jpg

Type this in. The link won't work, for some reason.

This:

We're sorry, but this page is currently unavailable for viewing.
If this site belongs to you, please read this help page for more information and assistance.

For general questions see our main help area, or search for other member pages.

isn't exactly my idea of hilarity.

RKMeibalane
09-03-2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
This:



isn't exactly my idea of hilarity.

Type the URL in manually. The link doesn't work for some strange reason.

ihatethecubs
09-03-2003, 10:42 PM
the cubs had a good game today, we had a really bad one. atleast we can say we're still in first, cubs fans cant. we can talk about this "lets all kill ourselves if the cubs make the playoffs and we don't" stuff after the season is over.

WhiteSox = Life
09-03-2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Type the URL in manually. The link doesn't work for some strange reason.

Hey, I feel better already!

Thanks for the pick-me-up... Don't even go there.

:D:

jabrch
09-03-2003, 10:54 PM
I have nothing more to say. The past two days have been baseball hell for me.

Those guys in the clubhouse should be twice as sick as me. They should be sick all day on their off-day tomorrow and so sick that they take it out on Cleveland. Anything less than a sweep is unacceptable after the past two days.

OK, going to kick my dog...

Gnight...

voodoochile
09-03-2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
I think it's pretty apparent that both Central divisions will be decided by a few games at most. The Sox have decided to share the division lead for the moment with the Twins, while the Flubs will be at worst out of first by a game after tonight, and at best by only half a game.

If the Sox fail to make the playoffs and if the Flubs do, I think that will be the final nail in the coffin for this franchise, at least in this city. The Sox are, in my estimation, BY FAR the better team, so if they don't win this division, it will be one of the supreme feats of underachievement in all my years of Sox fandom. The Flubs are a decent team with a few superlative starting pitchers and a basher or two in their lineup, but that's it, yet they're winning, while their sweaty-palmed divisional 'rivals' can't seem to string together 3 wins in a row.

The freaking blue-pajama-clad lemmings are multiplying, at least from what I've seen downtown and on the El. If the Flubs win their division, the Sox must win theirs or else they will have lost their only real chance of gaining new fans who are on the fence, and even that will be a struggle. If the Flubs win the division and the Sox choke, watch out -- it's going to get ugly.

Okay, now let's figure out who would be responsible...

:jerry
"Why is everyone always picking on me?"

:KW
"Because you suck. I should have canned your ass a long time ago, but the boss man is too damn cheap to pay for a decent manager while he is still paying your worthless hide to sleep in the clubhouse."

:reinsy
"Easy now Kenny, it's not JM's fault. You know who's really is to blame. They still think this team can catch Cleveland. That's right, Cheeses, it's all your fault - you and all the other idiots who pay to watch the Sox play crappy baseball under crappy managers who I refuse to fire. Sell the team? I'm hoping for a contraction buyout in a few years. Bud owes me big time..."

soxtalker
09-03-2003, 11:17 PM
I think that it is a concern regardless of whether the Cubs or Sox make the playoffs. The attendance figures are alarming. I was at the game tonight -- an absolutely perfect night for baseball -- and there were only 20,000 people in the stands. This shows that if the Cubs do at all well, the Sox are going to continually have pressure on them. And I suspect that the Cubs will continue to improve -- particularly with a farm system that appears to be well-stocked.

Is it hopeless? I think not. But they will need to make changes.

The Sox will have to do a number of things to compete. Some are changes in marketing. I wonder what the attendance would have been tonight without the web promotion. They will have to try some other innovative approaches to marketing like this.

Of course, the biggest things involve the field and organization behind it. I sincerely hope that KW is learning from the mistakes early in his GM career. I suspect that we'll see more expressions of that aggressiveness of his.

Viva Magglio
09-03-2003, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
I have nothing more to say. The past two days have been baseball hell for me.

Those guys in the clubhouse should be twice as sick as me. They should be sick all day on their off-day tomorrow and so sick that they take it out on Cleveland. Anything less than a sweep is unacceptable after the past two days.

OK, going to kick my dog...

Gnight...

Tomorrow (Thursday), they go on their golf outing. They ought to be in a real great mood for that.

voodoochile
09-03-2003, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Tomorrow (Thursday), they go on their golf outing. They ought to be in a real great mood for that.

Maybe a day away from it all will do them some good. Hopefully, Frank will drive the green on a par 4 and accidently hit Jerry in the head causing him to go into coma for the next few weeks...

Dan H
09-04-2003, 06:09 AM
It will be extremely tough for the Sox if they fail to make the playoffs and the Cubs are playing in October. Never mind right now the Cubs have the 8th best record in the National League. The media and fans are going ga-ga after their crybaby act yesterday. The Sox need to treat every game like a playoff game. The future of the franchise depends on it.

I have one thing to say to cheer myself up: Milt Pappas, just shut your fat mouth already! I don't care how bitter you are.

thepaulbowski
09-04-2003, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
The worst thing about all of this is that these last two games have sucked the life out of the fans. I hate to say it, but I'm feeling apathetic toward the Sox. I'm still rooting for them and hope they'll win, but I almost expect them to lose now. It's a horrible feeling, but it's present. I want to feel right again, and the Sox need to guide me along.

In other words, they need to get their [stuff] together tomorrow and beat Cleveland. If they don't... Well, no reason to finish this sentence...

I must say, though:

Go, Sox. Prove it to me, guys. Prove it.

:smile:

Uhh...apathy towards a first place team? Unbelievable.

Hangar18
09-04-2003, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Fast-forward to April, 2004...

:hurt -------------------------------------> http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/mlb/images/team_logos/50x50/la.gif

Hey, I predicted that too! I dont like the fact that Sox Fans have been here before.....That is, knocking on Armegeddons Door. I watched the news last nite, and the radio and the Media Is Going Hog Freaking Wild over the Win, treating it as a game2 World Series Win already. If there was a way to Lock Down or Censor the way the Media gets over these cubs, we'd be OK, because then it would just be about baseball. But were fighting a different Enemy. A Giant, Goliath LIKE ARMY that is outnumbering us 10,000 to 100. The Sox are in Very Big Trouble. I dont know if Manuel knows this, but these Sox Players need to be playing Every Game From HERE TO OCTOBER as if its the Playoffs. The Playoffs of their lives, because if they DONT start outdoing/performing the cubs in the next 2-3 days, we can write everything off. Ive seen us get to the Brink like this a few times in my lifetime already, and our luck is going to Run Out one of these times. You can only play Baseball Roulette so many times before eventually, the SOX run into the magic bullett. The bullet thats fired by the Chicago Media and the death of this franchise

Hangar18
09-04-2003, 08:54 AM
And because we've been here before, we all know we've discussed amongst ourselves, and looked Deep in the Mirror Black, and have had to brace for the worst. If the media-favored team in blue makes it before we do, Im officially a
Boston Red Sox fan. yeah, the Cardinals were a CLOSE consideration, but the AL thing tipped the scales over the NL.

34 Inch Stick
09-04-2003, 08:57 AM
Frank has an option at 6 million. The Sox have an option at 8 million. Are the Dodgers really going to pay more than 8 million for a .270 hitter who until recently was struggling to drive in runs?

Frank is a very risk averse guy. I don't know if he would even have the balls not to invoke his option and call the Sox bluff for 8.

Procol Harum
09-04-2003, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Tomorrow (Thursday), they go on their golf outing.

:maggs

"I always make my putts...I just pretend the bases are loaded and the pin is the shortstop"

cheeses_h_rice
09-04-2003, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
:maggs

"I always make my putts...I just pretend the bases are loaded and the pin is the shortstop"

Ouch.

Brutal (but accurate) assessment, Procol.

Hangar18
09-04-2003, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Frank has an option at 6 million. The Sox have an option at 8 million. Are the Dodgers really going to pay more than 8 million for a .270 hitter who until recently was struggling to drive in runs?

Frank is a very risk averse guy. I don't know if he would even have the balls not to invoke his option and call the Sox bluff for 8.

Your Forgetting 2 things.
1. The Dodgers are STUPID. (traded Karras/Grudzelianek for Hundley) they will Overpay for everything
2. They Dodgers (like the Cards/Mets) love ANTHING AL related.

THe Mets are paying 8 million for a .200 DL'd catcher, so why wouldnt they pay 8 mill for a .270 hitter ?

Procol Harum
09-04-2003, 09:19 AM
I love Maggs, but in those situations this year he's been as predictable as charting the tides. The only reason he didn't pull this act twice last night was that Garciaparra was cheating, allowing him to get a scratch single.

hose
09-04-2003, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Let's put it this way, already I have heard and seen talk of Cubs "destiny," a la after what Sandberg did to the Cardinals in June of 1984.

And what can you say after the way the Twins won today?

Now what did the Sox do tonight? It wasn't bad enough that they lost but how they lost.

Destiny, fate, karma....call it whatever you wish but the Sox never have it do they?

If the Cubs ever get to a World Series before the Sox you can pack up the moving trucks...it's over.

Lip



With all the General ranks around here I think you would qualify as General McClellan.....superior forces, "RETREAT!!!!!!!!"

Hangar18
09-04-2003, 10:04 AM
I hate to say this, but Im Feeling Really Really Really Down about this season and what it means for the Future of this Team. Sure, some of the blame definitely falls to the Media and Mike Kiley types, but blame should also fall squarely on the SOX esp the marketing dept, for IGNORING the Propoganda that was being sown for the blue team all those years. Whats the Visiting Japanese Businessman to do this morning....opens the paper....and sees cub everywhere, the giddy media excitement, the Sensational Headlines, the Bright Full Page Pictures, the anchormans lust, the daily Live Newsreports. What is he Supposed to Think? What will he tell his neighbors back home
about his one day visit to Chicago....a free day to do anything? a day to pick up the paper and see what there is to do in town?
What will he think is happening here?

booter14
09-04-2003, 10:36 AM
If the cubs took over this town and the sox had to move or something, i don't know what i would do....

That already happened twenty years ago for good. (See 1984)

I am as cynical of a Sox fan there is, and I still think there is hope in this season. They are the worst coached, managed team in the majors, but they are still in first place. They are finally getting real leadership from veterans, Big Frank especially, and I think this will overcome the poor decisions made by coaches and/or manager.

My advice to everyone is try to enjoy the remaining games in this season, because if the Sox fail to reach the post season these games will be the last relevant games played by this franchise. Can you say, "clean house". Magglio might be the only player or coach left standing.

Cheer-up, they are still in first place, and 87 games will win this division. The Twinkies won the series in 1987 with 87 victories in the reg season.

hose
09-04-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
I hate to say this, but Im Feeling Really Really Really Down about this season and what it means for the Future of this Team. Sure, some of the blame definitely falls to the Media and Mike Kiley types, but blame should also fall squarely on the SOX esp the marketing dept, for IGNORING the Propoganda that was being sown for the blue team all those years. Whats the Visiting Japanese Businessman to do this morning....opens the paper....and sees cub everywhere, the giddy media excitement, the Sensational Headlines, the Bright Full Page Pictures, the anchormans lust, the daily Live Newsreports. What is he Supposed to Think? What will he tell his neighbors back home
about his one day visit to Chicago....a free day to do anything? a day to pick up the paper and see what there is to do in town?
What will he think is happening here?


Sox are in first place Hangar, I'm a happy camper.

harwar
09-04-2003, 11:04 AM
In 93 the whole city was behind us.I think a big reason for the White Sox lack of big crowds is exactly what was said here,quite a few fans who were following the White Sox are now following the cubs.I mean everybody wants to be a cub fan and cheer on the cubbies to victory in the friendly confines.
Theres no question about it,Chicago is a cub town.
Mike Ditka was on with Chip Caray and Steve Stone yesterday and he said.."This is a northside town,a cub town,and if anybodys gonna do it(go to the post-season) it will be the cubs".
All i have to say is **** YOU Mike Ditka and may all ****ING cubs fans ROT IN HELL!!!
I can't wait to run into an ex-patriot White Sox fan who is now a cub fan,they are dead ****ing meat.

Viva Magglio
09-04-2003, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by harwar
Mike Ditka was on with Chip Caray and Steve Stone yesterday and he said.."This is a northside town,a cub town,and if anybodys gonna do it(go to the post-season) it will be the cubs".
All i have to say is **** YOU Mike Ditka and may all ****ING cubs fans ROT IN HELL!!!
I can't wait to run into an ex-patriot White Sox fan who is now a cub fan,they are dead ****ing meat.

This coming from someone that grew up a St. Louis Cardinal fan.

Lip Man 1
09-04-2003, 12:07 PM
Harwar:

Perhaps you don't remember this. It's from The Sporting News dated September 20, 1993 by Mark Newman pages 9-10-11.

Headline: Second City: The White Sox may be first in the A.L. West, but they seem to be second everywhere else.

Quotes "The Chicago White Sox recycled their 2-millionth plastic cup of the season last weekend at Comiskey Park, but being Earth's team is not enough. They want to be Chicago's team. All they have to do is get to the playoffs for the first time since 1983 and maybe give the city it's first World Series since 1959. Then the jealousies and insecurities would subsude and no one would argue that Harry Caray and Wrigley Field are more fun to be around..."

"It's amazing. We're a club that has been up on top all year. The Cubs have been fighting to stay at .500 and there have been days when you see them outdraw you."--Ron Schueler

Obviously "not everyone was behind the team," in 1993 was it? The damage done by ownership had already taken root across the city and been taken advantage of by the sharp marketing / PR folks on the North Side of town.

Lip

Chisox353014
09-04-2003, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Let's put it this way, already I have heard and seen talk of Cubs "destiny," a la after what Sandberg did to the Cardinals in June of 1984.

I have no idea what Sandberg did to the Cardinals in June of 84, but if Cub "destiny" means that 2003 will end the same way as 1984 ended for them, then I'm all for it. :D:

And what can you say after the way the Twins won today?

Oh, I said a lot of things after the Twins won today, none of which can be reproduced here.

Now what did the Sox do tonight? It wasn't bad enough that they lost but how they lost.
Destiny, fate, karma....call it whatever you wish but the Sox never have it do they?

I'm convinced that the only gods who exist are the baseball gods, and they freaking hate the White Sox for some reason.

If the Cubs ever get to a World Series before the Sox you can pack up the moving trucks...it's over.


Yep, I'll be packing up the moving trucks. For myself. This town would be absolutely impossible to live in if the unthinkable were to happen. Things are horrible enough already. It's only September 4th and the Scrubs aren't even in first, but there's no way I'm picking up a paper or turning on the news today.

bobj4400
09-04-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Chisox353014
Things are horrible enough already. It's only September 4th and the Scrubs aren't even in first, but there's no way I'm picking up a paper or turning on the news today.

For the first time in weeks, I havent:

1) Bought the paper
2) Listened to Sports Radio in the morning
3) Socialized with anyone from work when I got in this morning

Yesterday was an armageddon of sorts for Sox fans.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-04-2003, 12:46 PM
I've already noted the self-inflicted wounds of the '94 strike and the '97 white flag trade that caused Reinsdorf's Sox to fall far behind the Cubune's Flubbies in popularity. We were running neck and neck for annual attendance up until that time.

In fairness, I must now note the most significant events that WERE NOT within the control of Reinsdorf's Sox to avoid the same thing from happening.

#1. Losing the monopoly on night-time baseball in Chicago in 1988.

#2. The Cubune buying the Flubbies from the hapless Bill Wrigley, Jr. in 1981, just months after Jerry & Eddie bought the Sox.

You can't underestimate the role that night games at the Urinal has played in killing Sox season ticket sales. Those Flubbie night games are the best-attended of any group of games every season, and Cubune packages them up with plenty of other dates to spike attendance for the other start times, too. No longer did a businessman have to choose between entertaining clients (and getting the tax writeoff) buying daytime Flubbie season tickets (hard to get somebody to take off work to use) or night-time Sox tickets (easy to get somebody to make time for, even if they weren't big fans).

The Cubune shoved lights down the throats of Wrigleyville and City Hall. While we busy ourselves recounting all the evil things Reinsdorf has done to chase off his fanbase, let's not forget this very important political victory the Cubune engineered to hurt the Sox, too.

daveb816
09-04-2003, 01:26 PM
Sorry. but I just don't buy into this line of thinking at all. Don't any of you remember 1989? The Cubs won their division - playing much better than this season's team, by the way - and Sox came in LAST PLACE.

The Sox somehow survivred after this and after the '98 season, when Sox were out of the race by Memorial Day, were swept by Cubs in cross-town classic at Wrigley, and Cubs were the NL wild-card team.

I agree it would be a long, long winter if this were to happen and Marriotti, etc., would be more obnoxious and Cub/Wrigley-loving than usual, but Sox would survive unless they completely dismantled the team. I don't see that happening unless they completely collapse this month.

cheeses_h_rice
09-04-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by daveb816
Sorry. but I just don't buy into this line of thinking at all. Don't any of you remember 1989? The Cubs won their division - playing much better than this season's team, by the way - and Sox came in LAST PLACE.

The Sox somehow survivred after this and after the '98 season, when Sox were out of the race by Memorial Day, were swept by Cubs in cross-town classic at Wrigley, and Cubs were the NL wild-card team.

I agree it would be a long, long winter if this were to happen and Marriotti, etc., would be more obnoxious and Cub/Wrigley-loving than usual, but Sox would survive unless they completely dismantled the team. I don't see that happening unless they completely collapse this month.

Voodoo, 2003 != 1989. In 1989, I lived 3 blocks from Wrigley, and even walked by the celebration outside of it on my way to a friend's apartment that night. It was a much, much, much less wild celebration than when the Flubs beat the Giants for their Wild Card Championship in 1998, when idiots acted like they won Game 7 of the World Series. 5 years removed from that -- in a year where they have Jesuses Prior, Wood, Clement, Zambrano, Alou and Sosa -- and I guaran-freaking-tee that the din and euphoria you'll see will be enough to drown out the sobs of Sox fans when the Sox fail to make the playoffs.

GoSox2K3
09-04-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by harwar
Mike Ditka was on with Chip Caray and Steve Stone yesterday and he said.."This is a northside town,a cub town,and if anybodys gonna do it(go to the post-season) it will be the cubs".


Typical Cub fan drivel. I see that Mike has been smoking the Cubbie Crack and drinking the blue kool-aid at Wrigley.

Maybe that comment will earn him another 5 appearances on the 7th inning stretch.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-04-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by GoSox2K3
Typical Cub fan drivel. I see that Mike has been smoking the Cubbie Crack and drinking the blue kool-aid at Wrigley.

Maybe that comment will earn him another 5 appearances on the 7th inning stretch.

Well stated, 2K. Ditka will earn himself many more seventh inning appearances after kissing the Cubune's ring yesterday. That's just the sort of "entertainment" most of Chicago's baseball fans truly enjoy. It's "good" for Chicago baseball that they'll be turning out in ever larger numbers at the Urinal in the years ahead.

Are there still people here willing to defend the "ain't it great for Chicago baseball" line of thinking? It's in fact exactly the opposite.

soxtalker
09-04-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
You can't underestimate the role that night games at the Urinal has played in killing Sox season ticket sales. Those Flubbie night games are the best-attended of any group of games every season, and Cubune packages them up with plenty of other dates to spike attendance for the other start times, too. No longer did a businessman have to choose between entertaining clients (and getting the tax writeoff) buying daytime Flubbie season tickets (hard to get somebody to take off work to use) or night-time Sox tickets (easy to get somebody to make time for, even if they weren't big fans).


Interesting assessment. And it fits with all of the complaints on this board about the inept marketing and publicity efforts of the Sox.

I was pleasantly surprised by the web promotion for the Red Sox series. How do people on this board view those promotions -- were they successes?

I'm wondering if they can do other innovative things with their marketing. I just saw an article in the newspaper yesterday that Ticketmaster is going to start auctioning tickets. The major discussion centered on high-priced events, but my immediate thought was that it might lead to more attendance for the Sox.

cheeses_h_rice
09-04-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker


I'm wondering if they can do other innovative things with their marketing. I just saw an article in the newspaper yesterday that Ticketmaster is going to start auctioning tickets. The major discussion centered on high-priced events, but my immediate thought was that it might lead to more attendance for the Sox.

No, it will probably lead to less attendance, unless of course Ticketmaster decides to also lower ticket prices for the less popular games (which you know they won't) to reflect demand. That's what's really scummy about Ticketsmaster's moves here; there's absolutely no upside for the consumer.

Lip Man 1
09-04-2003, 02:20 PM
Continuing along the lines of what George said, I read in the Tribune, I think a story that said the Cubs want to add I think 13 more night games next season. It was in today.

Lip

voodoochile
09-04-2003, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Voodoo, 2003 != 1989. In 1989, I lived 3 blocks from Wrigley, and even walked by the celebration outside of it on my way to a friend's apartment that night. It was a much, much, much less wild celebration than when the Flubs beat the Giants for their Wild Card Championship in 1998, when idiots acted like they won Game 7 of the World Series. 5 years removed from that -- in a year where they have Jesuses Prior, Wood, Clement, Zambrano, Alou and Sosa -- and I guaran-freaking-tee that the din and euphoria you'll see will be enough to drown out the sobs of Sox fans when the Sox fail to make the playoffs.

And why shouldn't it be? you aren't actually arguing that the Sox failing to make the playoffs should be covered with more fervor and column inches than the flubbies making the playoffs are you?

The flubbies won't do anything in the playoffs if they actually get there. They just don't have the bullpen or offense and 3 of their starting pitchers are at best up and down.

I still think the Sox will be there in the end and don't worry about the flubbies at all. The ownership/management of this team has done WAY more to wreck the fanbase and positive media coverage than the Tribune owning the flubbies will ever do in the next 50 years. It isn't the medias fault the Sox can't draw (well maybe 10% of the problem is media driven). It is Reinsy, Scheuler, Manuel, Bevington, Gallas and (before this year) KW who have trashed this teams reputation with the fans. When a franchise has that many internal problems working against them then complaining about the media coverage seems a bit silly to me.

Let the chips fall where they may and worry about next year, next year. This franchise will be around for a long long time in the city (they just signed a 20 year lease extension for cripes sake) and eventually, Reinsy is going to sell or die and maybe Sox fans will get luckier with the next owner.

miker
09-04-2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
For the first time in weeks, I havent:

1) Bought the paper
2) Listened to Sports Radio in the morning
3) Socialized with anyone from work when I got in this morning

Yesterday was an armageddon of sorts for Sox fans.

And aren't you really a better person for it? Face it, as Sox fans, we have the "honor" of having to defend our freedom against the rest of the American League, but also against a popular culture spawned and nourished by the CNLBC (Chicago National League Ball Club) and their owners, the media giant Tribune Company.

There are many reasons I am proud to be a Sox fan: mostly because my father raised me right and it's definitely counter-culture. And all this has been through the following slaps in my face: Florida, New Comiskey, '94 strike, White Flag, David Wells, etc. I can attribute this to two things: I'm foolish and stubborn. And maybe even some of my fellow Sox fans are too.

So yes, the Sox blew the 2-game series with the BoSox. It was a good test because Boston is a playoff caliber team. Hopefully the boys in black will learn from this and turn it around.

As for not being the most popular game in town, it suits me just fine.

Just my two cents.

Hangar18
09-04-2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Well stated, 2K. Ditka will earn himself many more seventh inning appearances after kissing the Cubune's ring yesterday.

Heh Heh Hehh

SpringfldFan
09-04-2003, 05:30 PM
OK, just some random thoughts:

1) You are all talking about the doom of the cubs making the playoffs and the Sox not. Well, to take it one step further, what if the cubs go on and win the World series?

2) Regardless of what happens this year, the Sox are loaded with potential free agents and a somewhat depleted minor league system while the cubs have more youth and what most still consider a "stellar" minor league system. They are poised to build on whatever they accomplish this year...

3) I feel the same gloom. However, let me remind all of us (including myself), of the old axiom: When things are going well, you are not as good as you think and when things are going poorly, you are not as bad as you think. This always proves true, and even though my heart refuses to believe it, it will prove true again.