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cheeses_h_rice
09-02-2003, 11:12 PM
WOW. That catch by Palmeiro in the 9th is the play of the year. Amazing.

And, how could the umps call Pujols' catch an "error"? He had the ball in his mitt, and was just transferring it to his other hand, and it fell out of his glove.

I haven't seen enough replays of Alou's out in game 2 to call that, but still, that was an EGREGIOUSLY bad call by the ump.

cheeses_h_rice
09-02-2003, 11:13 PM
ESPN just showed the Alou replay. That ball was foul.

Sorry, Flub fans. You stole a game, and you deserved to lose the second one.

Viva Magglio
09-02-2003, 11:15 PM
Yeah, I think Moises' ball went an inch foul.

oheeoh...magglio
09-02-2003, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
ESPN just showed the Alou replay. That ball was foul.

Sorry, Flub fans. You stole a game, and you deserved to lose the second one.

Sorry guys, but the fox sports midwest broadcast showed a seperate angle, and you could clearly see chalk kick up, it was a fair ball, but that's what the cubs get for stealing the first game on a terrible call..

HawkDJ
09-02-2003, 11:21 PM
In the replay you could see the chalk flying up. Unless I'm mistaking it for something else...that ball was fair. Doesn't matter much anyways.

cheeses_h_rice
09-02-2003, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by oheeoh...magglio
Sorry guys, but the fox sports midwest broadcast showed a seperate angle, and you could clearly see chalk kick up, it was a fair ball, but that's what the cubs get for stealing the first game on a terrible call..

Which angle was that? ESPN showed the one from behind home plate-ish area on the third base side. It looked like the ball landed an inch or two outside the line, without touching it.

oheeoh...magglio
09-02-2003, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Which angle was that? ESPN showed the one from behind home plate-ish area on the third base side. It looked like the ball landed an inch or two outside the line, without touching it.

It was an odd angle, i couldn't say specifically where the camera was, but i had on espn, and espn showed a different angle. Anyways, you could see the ball land and chalk imediately kicked up, but I don't feel like arguing about this, the important thing is the cubs lost the game :D:

DrCrawdad
09-02-2003, 11:36 PM
There are reports going around that Alou spit on the ump. Supposedly this was reported on ESPN.

oheeoh...magglio
09-02-2003, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
There are reports going around that Alou spit on the ump. Supposedly this was reported on ESPN.

Yea i saw that report, it wasn't mentioned on even the cardinals broadcast and i didn't see it on replays of his hissy fit..odd, but hopefully true, thats good for a multiple game suspension everytime, just ask our 2nd baseman...

cheeses_h_rice
09-02-2003, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
There are reports going around that Alou spit on the ump. Supposedly this was reported on ESPN.

He didn't spit on him on purpose, if he did at all. He had tobacco in his mouth, and he was yelling at the ump, so he may have been spitting as he yelled. But it wasn't a Robbie Alomar-esque loogie.

WhiteSox = Life
09-02-2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by oheeoh...magglio
It was an odd angle, i couldn't say specifically where the camera was, but i had on espn, and espn showed a different angle. Anyways, you could see the ball land and chalk imediately kicked up, but I don't feel like arguing about this, the important thing is the cubs lost the game :D:

Couldn't the impact of the ball hitting the grass to the left of the line kick up dust? Just wondering.

:smile:

oheeoh...magglio
09-02-2003, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
Couldn't the impact of the ball hitting the grass to the left of the line kick up dust? Just wondering.

:smile:

I suppose that's possible, but the chalk kicked up right away, even in slow motion, so i'm pretty sure it was fair, but hey, i've been wrong before.... :(:

Viva Magglio
09-02-2003, 11:46 PM
As for the fans trashing the field, was that shown at all? On the telecast, I saw shots of the grounds crew running around the outfield with their garbage pails collecting the trash.

TornLabrum
09-02-2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
There are reports going around that Alou spit on the ump. Supposedly this was reported on ESPN.

I was flipping back and forth with the PIP and thought I saw the same thing.

oheeoh...magglio
09-02-2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
As for the fans trashing the field, was that shown at all? On the telecast, I saw shots of the grounds crew running around the outfield with their garbage pails collecting the trash.

They showed it quite a bit on fox sports midwest, no idea about fs chicago, but i doubt chimp and steve even acknowledged the fans trashing the field.

cheeses_h_rice
09-02-2003, 11:48 PM
OK, I stand corrected. Alou looked like he sort of spat dismissively at the ump, toward his feet, as he was arguing. It was hard to tell, but it was like a "pffft" type spit rather than a "haaaaaak" type, if that helps your imagination. :)

And ESPNews just showed the garbage on the field after the classy, lily-white, virginal and pure Flub fans littered the field.

oheeoh...magglio
09-02-2003, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
OK, I stand corrected. Alou looked like he sort of spat dismissively at the ump, toward his feet, as he was arguing. It was hard to tell, but it was like a "pffft" type spit rather than a "haaaaaak" type, if that helps your imagination. :)

And ESPNews just showed the garbage on the field after the classy, lily-white, virginal and pure Flub fans littered the field.

Thanks for the mental image on alou :?: as for the "classy, lily-white, virginal, and pure" cub fans, this isn't the first time the beacher bums have thrown garbage on the field to show their disapproval of the umpires.

cheeses_h_rice
09-02-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by oheeoh...magglio
as for the "classy, lily-white, virginal, and pure" cub fans, this isn't the first time the beacher bums have thrown garbage on the field to show their disapproval of the umpires.

Ssshhhhh, don't you know? Only White Sox fans misbehave.

MHOUSE
09-02-2003, 11:56 PM
I thought I saw Alou spit towards the umpire. Might have been at his feet b/c there was little reaction from the umpire (the phhhht reference). Palmiero's catch was amazing and a shame Shammee had to cork a homer and win it. 8 IP and one hit from your bullpen always helps though.

Woods and Colon both pitched gems, but got nothing. Anyone see the boneheaded play by Martinez w/ 2 errors that allowed the 2nd run to score? Wow.

The two "aces" are .500 with Woods 11-11 and Colon 12-12. I think Prior and Loaiza are the North and South side aces respectively. Woods has never won more than 13 games and here he goes again. OVER RATED.....

oheeoh...magglio
09-02-2003, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Ssshhhhh, don't you know? Only White Sox fans misbehave.

Sadly, i would guess over half of this town's baseball fans agree with that statement :angry:

cheeses_h_rice
09-03-2003, 12:05 AM
ESPN just showed Alou's smash from the other angle (from the first base side), and I have to concede that you do see the chalk getting kicked up, which means that Alou got screwed out of what would have been at least a 2-run double if not a 3-run one.

Oh well. I still say that merely evens out the bad call in game 1.

Viva Magglio
09-03-2003, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by oheeoh...magglio
Sadly, i would guess over half of this town's baseball fans agree with that statement :angry:

Yeah, watch the media cover up the field trashing incident.

oheeoh...magglio
09-03-2003, 12:08 AM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
ESPN just showed Alou's smash from the other angle (from the first base side), and I have to concede that you do see the chalk getting kicked up, which means that Alou got screwed out of what would have been at least a 2-run double if not a 3-run one.

Oh well. I still say that merely evens out the bad call in game 1.

Ahh, it's times like this i thank my lucky stars for the billy goat :)

Grobber33
09-03-2003, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
There are reports going around that Alou spit on the ump. Supposedly this was reported on ESPN.


Sorry Doc, nice try! We talked to Crew Chief Mike Reilly,and he said it(spitting)did not happen. The Umps were more pissed at Alfonseca who appeared to bump Klemm so he'll get some games off. Most of the St.Louis Media here said the Alou ball was fair,but it was tough to tell. Each team feels they were robbed so a split is the result.

oheeoh...magglio
09-03-2003, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Sorry Doc, nice try! We talked to Crew Chief Mike Reilly,and he said it(spitting)did not happen. The Umps were more pissed at Alfonseca who appeared to bump Klemm so he'll get some games off. Most of the St.Louis Media here said the Alou ball was fair,but it was tough to tell. Each team feels they were robbed so a split is the result.

Yea, me and cheese_h_rice saw another angle, the alou ball was clearly fair. With that said, what are your comments on all that garbage being thrown on the field?

Viva Magglio
09-03-2003, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Sorry Doc, nice try! We talked to Crew Chief Mike Reilly,and he said it(spitting)did not happen. The Umps were more pissed at Alfonseca who appeared to bump Klemm so he'll get some games off. Most of the St.Louis Media here said the Alou ball was fair,but it was tough to tell. Each team feels they were robbed so a split is the result.

I agree with Les. I think Alou was just spitting tobacco juice away. Of course, Alou should not be using chewing tobacco in the first place because it will cause him mouth/throat cancer down the road. But that is neither here nor there. What Alfonseca did was far worse. As for one angle, I thought it went an inch foul. But another angle showed some chalk kick up. So whether or not the ball was fair or foul is not entirely conclusive.

DrCrawdad
09-03-2003, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Sorry Doc, nice try! We talked to Crew Chief Mike Reilly,and he said it(spitting)did not happen. The Umps were more pissed at Alfonseca who appeared to bump Klemm so he'll get some games off. Most of the St.Louis Media here said the Alou ball was fair,but it was tough to tell. Each team feels they were robbed so a split is the result.

What do you mean, "Nice try"? I didn't invent the report. I read it in a Cubbie forum and apparently ESPN reported it.

No comment from Les though on the bleacherites who threw trash on the field. This much we know, if this happened at The Cell Les would be all over it.

The Cubbie fans who tossed garbage on the field, DRILLRODS!

DrCrawdad
09-03-2003, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Sorry Doc, nice try! We talked to Crew Chief Mike Reilly, and he said it (spitting) did not happen. The Umps were more pissed at Alfonseca who appeared to bump Klemm so he'll get some games off. Most of the St. Louis Media here said the Alou ball was fair, but it was tough to tell. Each team feels they were robbed so a split is the result.

"APPEARED to bump"? Man, talk about your biased recaps of that incident. Les, take off those Cubbie Blue (Dis)Colored Glasses.

...Alfonseca ran out from his bullpen seat and confronted Klemm, bumping him hard while on the run.

Crew chief Mike Reilly said Alfonseca knocked Klemm back 10-to-12 feet.

"That is the severest attack of an umpire I've seen in the big leagues, which is 27 years," Reilly said. - Paul Sullivan's account of the incident, Chicago Cubune.

Interesting that Les let's us know about Reilly saying there was no spitting but Les did not relate that last comment from Reilly. Interesting omission.

...Crew chief Mike Reilly saw it differently. "His intent was to make contact,'' he said. "He knocked him 10 to 12 feet backwards...''

...Reilly said no charges of spitting will be filed against Alou, although sweat and spit were flying... - Mike Kiley, Sun-Times

"His intent was to make contact with the umpire, and he did," Reilly said. "It wasn't a push. It wasn't a bump. It was body going against the umpire's body and it was a violent act by himself..."

..."This field, the grass is so loose. I did see some spray, but it can't be the chalk going up because it's paint out there," Morris said of Alou's close call.

"They were obviously fired up, but I didn't see the third-base coach (Wendell) Kimm. He wasn't going nuts and I'm sure he had one of the best views." - ESPN.COM Game Summary.

DrCrawdad
09-03-2003, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Sorry Doc, nice try! We talked to Crew Chief Mike Reilly,and he said it(spitting)did not happen. The Umps were more pissed at Alfonseca who appeared to bump Klemm so he'll get some games off. Most of the St.Louis Media here said the Alou ball was fair,but it was tough to tell. Each team feels they were robbed so a split is the result.

According to Mike Murphy, Cubbie fan SCORE host, it looked like Alou spit on the ump.

"Nice try" Murph!

Viva Magglio
09-03-2003, 10:13 AM
1. I do not think Alou intentionally spit at Klemm.

2. I believe Alfonseca totally bumped Klemm. According to David Schuster, the Score reporter who covered the game, Alfonseca bumped Klemm back "five to ten feet" and charged at Klemm "like a rhinoceros."

3. Now, let's say something similar happened in our ballpark. Say Carlos Lee hits a line drive with the bases loaded that hits the line but is ruled foul. Like Alou, Lee goes on to flyout. Since the Sox bullpen is not in the same location where the Wrigley bullpen is, let's say Carl Everett running out to center field goes after the umpire "like a rhinoceros." And, like Alou, let's say Lee also goes after the umpire. And while this is going on, fans in our bleachers trash the field.

Notice that not much, so far, has been made of the bleacherites trashing the field. Perhaps Alou and Alfonseca's actions stole their thunder, which is understandable. If the situation had occurred in our ballpark, how do you think the media would have reacted to it? Sure, they would call for Lee and Everett to be suspended which they should if this happened. But would they go the extra mile to rip Sox fans for trashing the field?

LuvSox
09-03-2003, 10:16 AM
Late last night ESPN news replayed the incident, Alou obviously spit on the ump. It's right there in living color.

Viva Magglio
09-03-2003, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Late last night ESPN news replayed the incident, Alou obviously spit on the ump. It's right there in living color.

I'll believe that Alou did not do it on purpose because Mike Reilly, the crew chief, said as such.

LuvSox
09-03-2003, 10:24 AM
I don't believe it. He did it, plain as can be. For whatever reason, the ump isn't going to push it. He did it.

Jerko
09-03-2003, 11:27 AM
ESPN reported WED morning that yes, Moist-est Alou did in fact spit at the umpire. I guess since it wasn't in his face, it doesn't count, and because the Cubs are just too pure to do anything like spit, cork, kill birds, beat sausages, etc. it doesn't matter anyway. Alou was so 'calm' that tobacco just "fell" out of his mouth I guess. Maybe he just smelled the 9 hour old piss from game 1 and was holding in a good puke. I SAW it, there was no accident. The umps are playing it down because they are stuck at the pissbowl for 2 MORE games and it's bad enough a beanball war is going to start, they had 2 bad calls, and the Wrigley faithful trashed the field once already. I bet his (the ump's) tone changes when this series ends IF he is even approached about it anymore, but I'm sure he won't be. I guess whatever the Cubs do wrong or whatever rules THEY break are lessened since, well, they ARE the Cubs, and what would AMERICA think if their cuddly little heroes were exposed as a bunch of a-holes. Sosa cheats, gets praised, accident. Alou spits on on ump, accident. Too bad if Alou or six fingers get suspended they'll be able to choose what cupcake games they'll miss too.

Grobber33
09-03-2003, 02:40 PM
It dos'nt matter what ESPN or anyone else reporterd.The Crew Chief Mike Reilly said Alou did NOT spit on Klemm---closed case. As for the trash thrown on the field,it was'nt even close to things in Wrigley or Comiskey in the past. It was'nt like the game in 1999 against the Rockies when some idiot tossed a whiskey bottle from the upper deck that barely missed Nafi Perez. I went nuts that nite ripping those who tossed stuff and who ran on the field. What happened here last as far as the trash was perhaps 20 idiots.But I would'nt expect anything less that some like Doc trying to blow it up even more!!! Alfonseca sholuld get around 7 to 10 games foor what he did.

bobj4400
09-03-2003, 03:20 PM
Anybody listening to the Flubs today? Santo is crying about LaRussa right now. It is great. I guess Baker (The Chosen One) started a beanball war, and now the Cards have retaliated. Santo is saying that LaRussa should be thrown out and suspended...

The Spitter is up with two on...he just singled and Martinez was thrown out at the plate. Santo is having a seizure. Pure Comedy.

Jerko
09-03-2003, 03:42 PM
It doesn't matter what ESPN reports, they are not the last word in sports, I admit. HOWEVER, what does matter is this: I SAW IT! I don't care what the agenda is of the umpire for not saying anything, I saw it. I also saw a piece of cork stuck smack dab in the middle of a bat that broke while it was IN SOSA'S HANDS during a major leage at bat. I saw Simon hit a girl in a costume in the head with a bat, I saw Alou spit on the ump. So the Italian Sausage didn't make a big deal out of the Simon incident. Does that mean it didn't happen? Same with Moistest Alou. The ump is toning it down because there are still 2 games left in this volatile series, with a bean ball war sure to be thrown in for good measure. He just doesn't want to start world war 3 with the idiot fans there; it does not mean the incident never happened. Good Lord, let's get some perspective here. Riley said Alou didn't spit on Klemm. Who was Riley wrestling with at the time that he has such good vision? They can't even see if a ball is fair or foul, you're going to tell me that he saw wheter or not the guy got spit on? The angle I saw on tv was pretty clear, and pretty close up. Maybe it was just a playful sneeze. A CUB would NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVER do anything wrong! I am so sick and tired of these Cub players getting caught RED-HANDED, breaking the oldest rules of baseball and having no accountability, or even worse, having people defending them. Unreal. The crew chief said it didn't happen, so what everybody saw must have been an optical illusion. ESPN must have doctored that footage since the crew chief said it didn't occur. Maybe the crew chief should grow a pair and tell the truth.

harwar
09-03-2003, 03:55 PM
cub fans reached a new low last night when one caller after another called into "the score" radio staion and called Julie Swieca every name in the book and said she was just a flithy White Sox fan just because she said alou's ball was fair.If i didn't already hate all cub fans i do now.
cub fans .. MAY THEY ALL ROT IN HELL!!! and i hope the stinkin cubs lose every game left.

DrCrawdad
09-03-2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
...As for the trash thrown on the field, it wasn't even close to things in Wrigley or Comiskey in the past (Completely off topic-DrC)...What happened here last as far as the trash was perhaps 20 idiots. But I wouldn't expect anything less that some like Doc trying to blow it up even more!!!

20 Cubbie fans threw garbage on The Shrines field? You pulled that number out of your ...

Of course you have absolutely no proof that it was 20. That's complete speculation. Speculation of course that minimizes what took place.

Show me where in what I said that I've exagerated (or in your words blew it up even more) the garbage on the field last night at The Shrine.

No comment from Les though on the bleacherites who threw trash on the field. This much we know, if this happened at The Cell Les would be all over it.

The Cubbie fans who tossed garbage on the field, DRILLRODS! - DrCrawdad.

Mighty4
09-03-2003, 04:04 PM
I think the Cub fans barraged Know it all Sweica AFTER she told one of them to "stick it up his ass". Not like that line should ever bother a Cub fan..........................

DrCrawdad
09-03-2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
Anybody listening to the Flubs today? Santo is crying about LaRussa right now. It is great. I guess Baker (The Chosen One) started a beanball war, and now the Cards have retaliated. Santo is saying that LaRussa should be thrown out and suspended...

The Spitter is up with two on...he just singled and Martinez was thrown out at the plate. Santo is having a seizure. Pure Comedy.


:santo
Hey Ronnie, can I offer you a ...

http://www.kleenex.com/us/products/soft/Ultrasoft/images/upright/U_blueup.jpg

Listening to the SCORE this morning and then the Cubbie pregame I heard the following from Dusty Baker...

'I don't complain or whine...' Then Dusty went on to whine and complain.

Every team complains about the umps at times, but does any team, their broadcasters and their fans complain MORE than the Cubbies?

:whiner:

Soxfan7070
09-03-2003, 05:04 PM
Da coach and his wife sang the 7th inning stretch... :)

mandmandm
09-03-2003, 05:41 PM
Cubs up 8-7

DrCrawdad
09-03-2003, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by mandmandm
Cubs up 8-7

:chunks

FJA
09-03-2003, 05:54 PM
Chimp just asked Alou if today's game was a lot like when he won the World Series with Florida.

I will let the jokes commence.

Mammoo
09-03-2003, 05:54 PM
Cubs win 8-7...

Quite a comeback against their hated rival and division leader.

Gotta give the devil his due!