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MarqSox
09-02-2003, 11:38 AM
From today's Cubune:
"But we're also in the entertainment business, that's why they call it the show. It's not religion, it's not politics. You come to a Cubs game, you might see Muhammed Ali, Mel Gibson, Shania Twain or Ozzy Osbourne. That creates interest and excitement." Cubs marketing director John MacDonough

Maybe it's just me, but when I go to a baseball game, I don't want to see a washed up boxer, a mediocre actor, a poptart singer or a strung-out rockstar. I want to see a baseball game. Perhaps if the Flubs understood that concept, they wouldn't be such a pathetic franchise.

Jerko
09-02-2003, 11:41 AM
Sounds like Vince McMahon is the Cubs PR guy.

Hangar18
09-02-2003, 11:48 AM
Im so glad im not a cub fan, and have to put up with
all of that Nonsense. Nothing to do with baseball.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-02-2003, 11:51 AM
Boy, how can ANYBODY still say having the Sox AND Cubs in the pennant race is GOOD for Chicago baseball is beyond me, after reading McDonough's "entertainment" statements. His comments just sum it up...

If you think we're joking about the Cubune's summer-long Mardi Gras at Clark & Addison, you really need to read McDonough's statement again. What the Cubune is doing has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with baseball. Hoping those *******s succeed is HURTING Chicago baseball, not helping it. :angry:

I hope the Lovable Losers crash and burn. The sooner the better! I LOVE Chicago baseball. What excuse can anybody else make?

Lip Man 1
09-02-2003, 11:53 AM
This reminds me of a story that Vince Lloyd told me when I visited him in 1976.

He said that one year when he was doing Cub games he spoke with P.K. Wrigley the owner and politely asked him why he thought the Cubs never won and did that bother him.

Lloyd said he never forgot Wrigley's answer...."we're here to entertain, if we can also win, that's fine but it's NOT a priority..."

LOL

Lip

harwar
09-02-2003, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Boy, how can ANYBODY still say having the Sox AND Cubs in the pennant race is GOOD for Chicago baseball is beyond me
I hope the Lovable Losers crash and burn. The sooner the better! I LOVE Chicago baseball. What excuse can anybody else make?

It would be nothing but a big nightmare for White Sox fans if both teams reach the playoffs.I mean its already started."the score" radio station is all cubs-all the time.The newspapers are mostly cubs,even the articles about the White Sox sometimes turn into cubs talk.And of course the national media would absolutely ignore the White Sox if their beloved cubbies were in the post-season.They have been hyping up the cubs all year.
I mean i want to hear about THE WHITE SOX if we get in the playoffs,not what Mark Prior is having for breakfast.
Any White Sox fans who say that it would be good for Chicago if they both get in better watch out what they ask for because they just might get it and end up regretting being from a city of 2 teams where you are a fan of the poor second cousin step child that we would become if the cubs(damn them to hell) get in also.

jabrch
09-02-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Boy, how can ANYBODY still say having the Sox AND Cubs in the pennant race is GOOD for Chicago baseball is beyond me, after reading McDonough's "entertainment" statements. His comments just sum it up...

If you think we're joking about the Cubune's summer-long Mardi Gras at Clark & Addison, you really need to read McDonough's statement again. What the Cubune is doing has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with baseball. Hoping those *******s succeed is HURTING Chicago baseball, not helping it. :angry:

I hope the Lovable Losers crash and burn. The sooner the better! I LOVE Chicago baseball. What excuse can anybody else make?

George, I disagree...The Cubs will never go away. They will always have their diehard following. Their park, while we all know why it sucks, is a 35,000 seat beergarden and a nice place for people to take their families for a day. They are well marketed and draw 2.5MM+ per year. I think it is great for the city to see both teams in the hunt. It may not be great for the Sox, I wish we got all the attention right now, but if both teams make the playoffs, the coverage and the attention will be good for the city.

Should we happen to have a Cubs vs Sox World Series...my lord...

jabrch
09-02-2003, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by harwar
It would be nothing but a big nightmare for White Sox fans if both teams reach the playoffs.I mean its already started."the score" radio station is all cubs-all the time.The newspapers are mostly cubs,even the articles about the White Sox sometimes turn into cubs talk.And of course the national media would absolutely ignore the White Sox if their beloved cubbies were in the post-season.They have been hyping up the cubs all year.
I mean i want to hear about THE WHITE SOX if we get in the playoffs,not what Mark Prior is having for breakfast.
Any White Sox fans who say that it would be good for Chicago if they both get in better watch out what they ask for because they just might get it and end up regretting being from a city of 2 teams where you are a fan of the poor second cousin step child that we would become if the cubs(damn them to hell) get in also.

The Cubs team as is will not win a series. They can pitch, but can't score enough runs and have a weak Pen if their starters have a subpar outing. The Sox can do it all...SP, RP and the Pen. Harold Reynolds yesterday said that if he were the Yanks or the As, he'd be terrified of the Sox in a short series. I agree!

Hangar18
09-02-2003, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
George, I disagree...The Cubs will never go away. They will always have their diehard following. Their park, while we all know why it sucks, is a 35,000 seat beergarden and a nice place for people to take their families for a day. They are well marketed and draw 2.5MM+ per year. I think it is great for the city to see both teams in the hunt. It may not be great for the Sox, I wish we got all the attention right now, but if both teams make the playoffs, the coverage and the attention will be good for the city.

Should we happen to have a Cubs vs Sox World Series...my lord...

both teams being in the playoffs would be Bad for Sox, good for City/Cubs. the Media is Lusting for the cubs to make it. The prewritten Prior and Dusty stories are piled up, all the media has to do is click "SEND" on their computers ...... A sox appearance is important in that it will FORCE the Media to acknowledge the WHite Sox (though ESPN will do their best to lament on how bad it is that Dusty couldnt get the cub to the playoffs, and how chicago is saddened and in a state of mourning) and Help to Rid the SOX of some of the Negative Stereotypes and Myths that are spread by these Yellow Writers

Mighty4
09-02-2003, 12:17 PM
I am a Raiders' fan and have to endure getting spanked by Gruden in the Super Bowl for the rest of my life. The Cubs even making the World Series, let alone winning it, would be 20000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000 times worse.

soxtalker
09-02-2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Boy, how can ANYBODY still say having the Sox AND Cubs in the pennant race is GOOD for Chicago baseball is beyond me, after reading McDonough's "entertainment" statements. His comments just sum it up...

If you think we're joking about the Cubune's summer-long Mardi Gras at Clark & Addison, you really need to read McDonough's statement again. What the Cubune is doing has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with baseball. Hoping those *******s succeed is HURTING Chicago baseball, not helping it. :angry:

I hope the Lovable Losers crash and burn. The sooner the better! I LOVE Chicago baseball. What excuse can anybody else make?

OK, I'll say it -- having both of Chicago's teams in the thick of things at this point in the season is great for Chicago baseball -- and Sox fans, in particular. If there is one thing that will push the entire Sox organization to improve, it is success of and media hype about that team on the north side of town. The turnaround in the Sox season started when we played the Cubs, and the chip on the collective shoulder of the Sox players was quite evident.

We don't have to like the way that the Cubs organization approaches baseball (though I'd guess that it is much closer to the way that the owners in general view the game than we'd like to admit). I don't like seeing the wave or fans throwing the ball back at Sox park, and I've really been turned off when I've gone to the park this year and found that a large percentage of the crowd (at least in the upper deck) is really more interested in drinking/partying than in baseball -- as seems to be more typical of the north-side park.

If you think that the thought of the Cubs making it to the WS without the Sox is horrifying to us fans, consider how the Sox organization would view such a prospect. What great motivation!

And if the Tribune slights us a bit -- which I don't really see as much as many of you do (though I do hear it on WGN radio) -- it is a small price to pay.

Oh, and PHG, I would guess that the hope you have that "the Loveable Losers crash and burn" would be true regardless of how the Tribune handles or views things -- either on the field or in their paper. I grew up in a family full of Cubs fans. Beating the Cubs is sweet. The thing is -- and I know this is risky -- I can think of nothing sweeter than doing it in the WS.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-02-2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
....Oh, and PHG, I would guess that the hope you have that "the Loveable Losers crash and burn" would be true regardless of how the Tribune handles or views things -- either on the field or in their paper. I grew up in a family full of Cubs fans. Beating the Cubs is sweet. The thing is -- and I know this is risky -- I can think of nothing sweeter than doing it in the WS.

Please don't call me out by name unless you're willing to back it up. I grew up in a household filled with Cubs fans. I grew out of it.

Suffice to say, you're badly confused if what you wrote above about the Cubs and me is what you honestly believe. It's "entertainment" on the North Side, not baseball. It's been like that for over 50 years--not just since the Cubune bought them. Get a clue.

mandmandm
09-02-2003, 12:45 PM
I heard two interviews with John MacDonough in the last two days. First was yesterday with Jesse Rodgers. It is amazing how blind Cubs fans are. People calling in congratulating John on how good the management is doing. This morning he was on Rube Spike O'dell's show. Everytime Spike spoke of the Cubs he said "we". In both interviews John spoke about the organization gunning to break the all time Chicago attendance record set by the Sox in 1991. John also said that Jim Hendry deserves alot of credit for drafting Mark Prior. I almost choked on my Lucky Charms listening to such garbage

bobj4400
09-02-2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by mandmandm
John also said that Jim Hendry deserves alot of credit for drafting Mark Prior.



[COLOR=teal]Yeah...it took a real genius to find the unheralded Mark Prior[COLOR=teal]

soxtalker
09-02-2003, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Please don't call me out by name unless you're willing to back it up. I grew up in a household filled with Cubs fans. I grew out of it.

Suffice to say, you're badly confused if what you wrote above about the Cubs and me is what you honestly believe. It's "entertainment" on the North Side, not baseball. It's been like that for over 50 years--not just since the Cubune bought them. Get a clue.

Well, I guess that I am badly confused, as I don't know what you mean by the part of your reply:

what you wrote above about the Cubs and me is what you honestly believe

Nonetheless, I'm not trying to insult you. If the reason for your dislike of the Cubs is that they focus on "entertainment", or whatever reason, so be it.

But I'm not sure that I agree with the premise that the Cubs only focus on entertainment. Oh, I think that is the primary motivation. But it looks like they have been quietly assembling a nice farm system and might have some very competitive teams down the road. Why do that if they can fill the ballpark with a mediocre team? I suspect that their national ratings -- and WGN profits -- might go up with a better team.

Iwritecode
09-02-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
But I'm not sure that I agree with the premise that the Cubs only focus on entertainment. Oh, I think that is the primary motivation. But it looks like they have been quietly assembling a nice farm system and might have some very competitive teams down the road. Why do that if they can fill the ballpark with a mediocre team? I suspect that their national ratings -- and WGN profits -- might go up with a better team.

You're correct in that don't focus only on entertainment. They are still a major league team. So they have to put a team out there that will win 70 or 80 games every few seasons. That's just enough to keep the 100 or so actual fans who watch the games and care whether they win or lose. But make no mistake about it, Lip's post about Wrigley sums it up quite well.

"we're here to entertain, if we can also win, that's fine but it's NOT a priority..."

This rings true still today.

Lastly, the Cubs usually have a decent farm system, but they always end up trading most of it away for washed-up, over-the-hill veterans.

Dadawg_77
09-02-2003, 01:58 PM
I am the only one who wishes the Sox focus more on entertainment? What is more entertaining then a day at the ballpark watching your team win a game helping them secure the divisional crown?

PaleHoseGeorge
09-02-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
You're correct in that don't focus only on entertainment. They are still a major league team. So they have to put a team out there that will win 70 or 80 games every few seasons. That's just enough to keep the 100 or so actual fans who watch the games and care whether they win or lose. But make no mistake about it, Lip's post about Wrigley sums it up quite well.

"we're here to entertain, if we can also win, that's fine but it's NOT a priority..."

This rings true still today.

Lastly, the Cubs usually have a decent farm system, but they always end up trading most of it away for washed-up, over-the-hill veterans.

Thank you for responding on my behalf, Code. I'm not insulted, SoxTalker. I'm simply noting that the Cubs operation has been about "entertainment" for a much longer time than the Cubune's ownership. In fact, the original roots go back to William Wrigley, the grandfather of Bill Wrigley who sold to the Cubune in 1981. It was back in the 30's that Veeck and his father (also working in the Wrigley front office) coined the phrase "Beaaaaa-utiful Wrigley Field." The ivy, the scoreboard, blah, blah, blah... it all started right there.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has duly noted that the Flubbies have all but glorified losing in the time since then. How refreshing that even today, the Cubune's director of marketing freely admits the tradition of losing is strictly secondary to what was most important, what is most important, and what obviously will remain most important for the foreseeable future--even as the Flubbies ride Prior's coattails into the playoff hunt. For 70+ years it's all about "Beaaaaa-utiful Wrigley Field."

Sorry, but the Cubs are selling "entertainment," not baseball. Don't get mad at me for pointing out the obvious. If you want to argue the point, give that idiot Flubbie director of marketing a phone call. He's the one who ADMITTED to it. He's the one you need to straighten out, not me.

Meanwhile, I'll keep supporting WINNING Chicago baseball. That's the kind of "entertainment" I enjoy. In fact, I'll be so bold as to declare it's GOOD for Chicago baseball, too. But not the Lovable Losers, for crying out loud.

doublem23
09-02-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
George, I disagree...The Cubs will never go away. They will always have their diehard following. Their park, while we all know why it sucks, is a 35,000 seat beergarden and a nice place for people to take their families for a day. They are well marketed and draw 2.5MM+ per year. I think it is great for the city to see both teams in the hunt. It may not be great for the Sox, I wish we got all the attention right now, but if both teams make the playoffs, the coverage and the attention will be good for the city.

Should we happen to have a Cubs vs Sox World Series...my lord...

The Cubs have only been the "top draw" in the city the last decade or so, IIRC. Jerry Reinsdorf has probably done more to promote Cubism than anyone else.

pudge
09-02-2003, 03:59 PM
I understand where everyone is coming from on this, but come on - baseball IS entertainment for a lot of people. Not people like us, but on any given night at any given stadium, half the crowd is going to be made up of non-baseball fans just going to an "event". (Maybe not so much at The Cell as other places, but certainly The Cell has its fair share too - see William Ligue Jr.)

The Cell has an exploding scoreboard and a friggin' shower in left field and Dog Day and Elvis Night, etc., etc., etc. I would hope that Sox fans are a little more immune to these gimmicks, but as an organization, the Sox are guilty of "entertainment" too.

MarqSox
09-02-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by pudge
I understand where everyone is coming from on this, but come on - baseball IS entertainment for a lot of people. Not people like us, but on any given night at any given stadium, half the crowd is going to be made up of non-baseball fans just going to an "event". (Maybe not so much at The Cell as other places, but certainly The Cell has its fair share too - see William Ligue Jr.)

The Cell has an exploding scoreboard and a friggin' shower in left field and Dog Day and Elvis Night, etc., etc., etc. I would hope that Sox fans are a little more immune to these gimmicks, but as an organization, the Sox are guilty of "entertainment" too.
Look, there's nothing wrong with entertainment. As you noted, Sox fans enjoy gimmicks as much as any group of fans. But my problem comes when the entertainment department overshadows the baseball department, which it clearly does on the North Side. And sadly, they're proud of it.

The Cubs are like the New York Post of baseball -- don't care about actually putting together a good product, as long as the masses buy it.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-02-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by pudge
I understand where everyone is coming from on this, but come on - baseball IS entertainment for a lot of people. Not people like us, but on any given night at any given stadium, half the crowd is going to be made up of non-baseball fans just going to an "event". (Maybe not so much at The Cell as other places, but certainly The Cell has its fair share too - see William Ligue Jr.)

The Cell has an exploding scoreboard and a friggin' shower in left field and Dog Day and Elvis Night, etc., etc., etc. I would hope that Sox fans are a little more immune to these gimmicks, but as an organization, the Sox are guilty of "entertainment" too.

Pudge, this is a reasoned, lucid, and well constructed argument. Kudos to you.

Just one problem. How many Sox Fans do you know who call their team "Lovable Losers"?

Game. Set. Match.


:bandance:

We are NOT the same as Flubbie fans. Don't let ANYONE ever try to convince you otherwise.

pudge
09-02-2003, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


We are NOT the same as Flubbie fans. Don't let ANYONE ever try to convince you otherwise.

Well I think I made an effort to point out that Sox fans as a whole don't buy into the gimmicks as much as other fans might, I agree the Cubs are on the extreme end of the spectrum. I just wanted to remind everyone that our fan base is not perfect either, otherwise we wouldn't need "Elvis Night" to draw a big crowd during a pennant chase in August.