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View Full Version : Why are we so miserable? ::rolls eyes::


inta
08-25-2003, 12:53 PM
it doesnt seem anyone's posted this idiots story today...

http://www.suntimes.com/output/rapoport/cst-spt-rap25.html

he even leaves his email asking for answers....
let the flood begin.

Lip Man 1
08-25-2003, 01:11 PM
First off Ron is not an idiot he's a friend to WSI. That being said here is what I submitted to him:

Ron:

It's very difficult to answer your question with the stipulations that you have included. Like them or not they are ALL valid reasons why Sox fans are so "miserable." However I'll try to list a reason that you have not deemed off limits.

Given the nature of where Sox fans live and the rough and tumble day to day life that many have, I think part of the reason is self esteem. Sox author and historian Rich Lindberg said it best in one of his books, (and I'm paraphrasing here) that there is nothing worse then being a Sox fan in a Cubs town.

I think many, many Sox fans are so angry over the unwarrented attention that the Cubs get (for being what they really are lovable "losers") that they are saying, 'why don't the Sox get the same attention for losing?' (I grant you "losing" is all relative. Even in their worst seasons, the Sox usually are better on the field then the Cubs).

Sox fans want one day to be able to look out over the rest of Chicago and for that matter the rest of baseball and the rest of the local and national media and basically say "the hell with all of you...WE'RE NUMBER ONE!"... not the Cubbies, the "long suffering" Red Sox or the Yankees... but us, the Chicago White Sox and their fans.

I think that reason is one of many reasons for the "misery." Sox fans are so consumed by winning a "World Championship" (not a divisional title and a quick first round exit) they focus on EVERY single fault, bad decision, poor performance and cost cutting move from ownership.

Personally I can't blame them. I've been a fan for 43 years and I STILL haven't seen a World Series on the South Side.

I consider you a good friend Ron, but in all honesty I must tell you that instead of asking why Sox fans are so "miserable," you should be asking why great baseball fans haven't seen a World Series in decades. Considering that "expansion" teams have been to the series many times since the Sox last appearance, that's the more relavent question. Sox fans don't go out to the park more because many have lost hope...not getting to a World Series in 43 years (and counting) does that to you.

That's the difference Ron between Cub fans and Sox fans. Sox fans have their collective "eyes on the prize," a World Series Championship. Nothing less is acceptable and all their "misery" stems from the fact that the Sox are no closer towards winning one today then they were in the Winter of 1981 when current ownership bought the team.

I'll be curious to read what you have received in the future.

Take care!
Lip

fquaye149
08-25-2003, 01:15 PM
he may not be an idiot, but that article is bordering on idiotic.

as flawed as dusty baker is, he's still a good manager...unlike a certain southside counterpart. and cubs fans are morons who don't clamor for anything but cheaper beer.

LASOXFAN
08-25-2003, 01:20 PM
Well said, Lip. Rappoport's a good guy and I give him high marks for at least opening the dialogue with Sox fans. Let's hope other fans have the same taste and tact with their responses.

Hangar18
08-25-2003, 01:29 PM
I thought the Article was so stupid (almost as bad as SLezaks "lets find kerry a nickname story") Were Not miserable.
Were just Levelheaded..... Just like cub fans are Foolish, but in twisted media terminology, theyre 'LOYAL'.

Dan H
08-25-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
Well said, Lip. Rappoport's a good guy and I give him high marks for at least opening the dialogue with Sox fans. Let's hope other fans have the same taste and tact with their responses.

Rapoport may be a good guy, but we have heard all of this before. Someone from the media asks for a dialogue from Sox fans, and then after getting a response, rips the Sox fans more. I am going to write Rapoport, but I am going to warn him that I don't want my or any other response to be held up for ridicule. If he wants a dialogue, fine. If he wants to set people up for a fall, that has already been done before.

Along with this, I think the column was lame in many ways. He stated that he didn't want to hear about no pennants since 1959. If this is not a legtimate reason for fan alienation, I don't know what is. We are not Cub fans who think decades of frustration is fun.

Let's see how open minded the man is. Very few from the media respect our opinion. Right now, I am not hopeful.

inta
08-25-2003, 01:49 PM
if anything cubs fans SHOULD be more discerning about jerkoff front office tactics and underachieving teams. they're not and that's what makes them the cubs fans we love to hate.


fact is there's no reason for an entire team to underachieve aside from management.
pena and baker have turned turds into diamonds this season, while our beloved sox have looked like chickens with their heads cut off for most of ours.

my love for the sox will always be strong but i will never tolerate nonsense. and i cant think of anything more nonsensical the way manuel has managed this team.

Hangar18
08-25-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Dan H
Rapoport may be a good guy, but we have heard all of this before. Someone from the media asks for a dialogue from Sox fans, and then after getting a response, rips the Sox fans more. I am going to write Rapoport, but I am going to warn him that I don't want my or any other response to be held up for ridicule. If he wants a dialogue, fine. If he wants to set people up for a fall, that has already been done before.

Along with this, I think the column was lame in many ways. He stated that he didn't want to hear about no pennants since 1959. If this is not a legtimate reason for fan alienation, I don't know what is. We are not Cub fans who think decades of frustration is fun.

Let's see how open minded the man is. Very few from the media respect our opinion. Right now, I am not hopeful.

DanH, that hits the nail on the head. Flub fans and SOX fans are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Rapoport thinks just because a certain other teams fans are happy and dancing in the streets, while were in first and "miserable" speaks Volumes about the kind of fans we are (in a positive way) We dont take to the streets and celebrate "wild card championships" (it was a onegame playoff) we dont fill stadiums to capacity to watch 95 Loss teams. This writers been around for a while, and he should know better by now. Were Not Stupid, thats why were "miserable". IF HE REALLY WANTED TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THE SOX FAN BASE....he should just come to this site and do some Reading

cheeses_h_rice
08-25-2003, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by inta
it doesnt seem anyone's posted this idiots story today...

http://www.suntimes.com/output/rapoport/cst-spt-rap25.html

he even leaves his email asking for answers....
let the flood begin.

I wouldn't call myself miserable. I'm happy the Sox are in 1st place, and I feel that they should have been in 1st all along this year. Their underachieving and underperformance this year has to fall at the feet of their manager, IMO. However, I am not as gung-ho about firing Jerry as I was at a certain point earlier this year (May).

JJAustin69
08-25-2003, 03:10 PM
Demanding and realistic do not equal miserable.

Dan H
08-25-2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
DanH, that hits the nail on the head. Flub fans and SOX fans are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Rapoport thinks just because a certain other teams fans are happy and dancing in the streets, while were in first and "miserable" speaks Volumes about the kind of fans we are (in a positive way) We dont take to the streets and celebrate "wild card championships" (it was a onegame playoff) we dont fill stadiums to capacity to watch 95 Loss teams. This writers been around for a while, and he should know better by now. Were Not Stupid, thats why were "miserable". IF HE REALLY WANTED TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THE SOX FAN BASE....he should just come to this site and do some Reading

Hanger - Does Rapoport really want to know anything about the fan base? Or is it just easy to blame the fans for all that has gone wrong with the team? And you're right. We don't go ga-ga over "wild card championships." Flub fans? Who wants to be compared to them?

TornLabrum
08-25-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by inta
it doesnt seem anyone's posted this idiots story today...

http://www.suntimes.com/output/rapoport/cst-spt-rap25.html

he even leaves his email asking for answers....
let the flood begin.

Hmmm...I only said we'd be 10 games ahead.

TornLabrum
08-25-2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
Well said, Lip. Rappoport's a good guy and I give him high marks for at least opening the dialogue with Sox fans. Let's hope other fans have the same taste and tact with their responses.

I'd say the same thing except that half the article was devoted to...guess what????

THE ATTENDANCE ISSUE!

Lip Man 1
08-26-2003, 07:05 PM
I hope all of you (especially Hal and Dan) sent a reply to Ron.

He told me he's getting a lot of thoughtful replys.

Lip

sti3
08-26-2003, 08:08 PM
Rapoport may not be a jerk but to throw the attendance thing in there--please. Just comes off really whiny. Let it rest already.

inta
08-26-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I hope all of you (especially Hal and Dan) sent a reply to Ron.

He told me he's getting a lot of thoughtful replys.

Lip

i hope he's printing them.
richard roeper ran a similiar thing years ago asking sox fans why they weren't coming out to comiskey, but when he did the follow up story he just ran the more belligerant replies.

TornLabrum
08-26-2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I hope all of you (especially Hal and Dan) sent a reply to Ron.

He told me he's getting a lot of thoughtful replys.

Lip

I'm too busy right now. First week of school and I just spent about 9 hours in a building that was over 90 degrees with about 70% humidity.

Dan H
08-27-2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I hope all of you (especially Hal and Dan) sent a reply to Ron.

He told me he's getting a lot of thoughtful replys.

Lip

I did send a letter, and his comment to you, Lip, is interesting. His August 27 column comes off a little condescending. I was getting the feeling the feeling that we were being baited so we could be insulted. I wasn't really impressed with the selection he ran in the August 27 column. Why didn't he run the more thoughtful notes?

Regardless, it sounds like he is done with this. If he truly responds in any positive way, I will be surprised. I always have my doubts about the Chicago sports media.

Jerko
08-27-2003, 10:46 AM
Well Ron's follow up article is in today's times, and I am not happy. He prints about 13 emails he got from Sox fans in response to his "miserable" column, and no less than 6 people mentioned the park or the surrounding area. Then a page later they have the "august opinions" question: Who would win a cub/Sox World Series. One guy, who actually has his picture and name displayed, said "the Cubs, they have a nicer ballpark". So, Ron, if you want to know why Sox fans are "miserable"; it's because we are looked down upon by morons like that guy who think that whoever has the "better park" (and that is in question too if you ask me) would win the World Series. Well, the Sox are 20 games over in their crappy park and the Beloved Cubs, who will win the world series because of their park, are a mere .500 in the friendly entwines. What a joke. That pisses me off actually, it doesn't make me 'miserable'.

Dan H
08-27-2003, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Well Ron's follow up article is in today's times, and I am not happy. He prints about 13 emails he got from Sox fans in response to his "miserable" column, and no less than 6 people mentioned the park or the surrounding area. Then a page later they have the "august opinions" question: Who would win a cub/Sox World Series. One guy, who actually has his picture and name displayed, said "the Cubs, they have a nicer ballpark". So, Ron, if you want to know why Sox fans are "miserable"; it's because we are looked down upon by morons like that guy who think that whoever has the "better park" (and that is in question too if you ask me) would win the World Series. Well, the Sox are 20 games over in their crappy park and the Beloved Cubs, who will win the world series because of their park, are a mere .500 in the friendly entwines. What a joke. That pisses me off actually, it doesn't make me 'miserable'.

At first glance I was totally pissed by the August 27 column. I have calmed down now, but I'm still not very happy with the way this was handled. Does he really want a dialogue or not? Anyway, Jerko, I'm with you. I'm tired of mopes telling us what we should like or not like.

Chisox353014
08-27-2003, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Well Ron's follow up article is in today's times, and I am not happy. He prints about 13 emails he got from Sox fans in response to his "miserable" column, and no less than 6 people mentioned the park or the surrounding area. Then a page later they have the "august opinions" question: Who would win a cub/Sox World Series. One guy, who actually has his picture and name displayed, said "the Cubs, they have a nicer ballpark". So, Ron, if you want to know why Sox fans are "miserable"; it's because we are looked down upon by morons like that guy who think that whoever has the "better park" (and that is in question too if you ask me) would win the World Series. Well, the Sox are 20 games over in their crappy park and the Beloved Cubs, who will win the world series because of their park, are a mere .500 in the friendly entwines. What a joke. That pisses me off actually, it doesn't make me 'miserable'.

If you didn't pick up today's print edition of the S-T, here's the opinions thing Jerko speaks of. Rarely have I seen the difference between Sox and Flub fans summed up so perfectly.

Jerko
08-27-2003, 11:30 AM
Thanks chisox, I'm not that adept at posting images yet.

maurice
08-27-2003, 12:02 PM
The follow up ARTICLE wasn't too bad, but the HEADLINE was terrible. One day it might occur to the Sun-Times that a good percentage of their customers apparently are Sox fans. I don't think McDonald's would condone it if their cashiers randomly insulted the customers.

To the editors:

How terribly disappointing that your headline writers used an innocuous column as an excuse to take another gratuitous shot at Sox fans. While Mr Rapoport's column was relatively restrainted, this is at least the second time in two months that your paper has leveled a baseless charge against a large percentage of its customers. This is a formula for disaster. At least the Tribune has a financial motive to slander the Sox and their fans. What's your excuse?

Maurice
whitesoxinteractive.com

sti3
08-27-2003, 12:02 PM
Heard him on WBEZ this morning. I'm sorry, maybe he's a friend of WSI, but he's still a whingeing killjoy, doesn't understand Sox fans ("How could they possibly be mad at the manager when they're in first place?" BECAUSE WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALL SEASON!), and isn't particularly insightful about sports in general. And yes, he's also condescending--"Surprisingly thoughtful responses from Sox fans!"

Addendum: Read the piece. I imagine Rapoport's definition of "thoughtful" is "self-pitying", because that's what most of the responses come off as. I'm not a company man by any stretch, but any Sox fan who writes in dissing the ballpark, neighborhood, blah blah blah in the midst of a pennant race is just an idiot hoping to get his name in the paper. It's not the time, people--there are so many more interesting Sox-related stories to write about.

Agh. Just thinking about this story ticks me off.

Lip Man 1
08-27-2003, 01:39 PM
Sorry folks I didn't get that impression at all.

I though it was a tasteful column. My concern was that the responces were going to be used to make Sox fans look like buffoons, that's not the case at all.

I particularly liked the comment about "hope." That "hope" has never won anything, that "hope" is for Cub fans, that all Sox fans care about is winning.

As far as comments on the neighborhood, what about the replys about the building that is taking place in Bridgeport? That's not positive?

As far as comments about the park itself, my feelings are that the Sox blew it in the first place and spent 25 million bucks trying to correct the error that they themselves created. That money should have been used on players. Perhaps if Uncle Jerry did what the HOK people wanted, attendence would have never been an issue in the first place.

The ballpark deserves everything it gets.

I think the issue when you come down to it is that some Sox fans are upset at being labeled "miserable," and no matter how the answers were printed they were going to find fault.

The fact is WE ARE MISERABLE, ALL OF US, because we haven't won squat in decades. Until that happens on a REGULAR basis we are going to stay miserable!

I don't have a problem with that type of attitude. In fact I relish Sox fans putting winning ahead of every other issue. It makes us fans like George Steinbrenner. (now if we can only get him or his ilk to buy the team! LOL)

Lip

sti3
08-27-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
[B]I though it was a tasteful column. My concern was that the responces were going to be used to make Sox fans look like buffoons, that's not the case at all.
I thought they did look like buffoons for making the same excuses for not going to games, even though the piece was about why they're "miserable"I particularly liked the comment about "hope." That "hope" has never won anything, that "hope" is for Cub fans, that all Sox fans care about is winning.
Fair enough, but that was just one piece out of a bunch that were much whinier.As far as comments on the neighborhood, what about the replys about the building that is taking place in Bridgeport? That's not positive?He said near 26th street. Much of Bridgeport is still a ghost town and has been for a while. Been near 35th and Halsted lately? Truly depressing.As far as comments about the park itself, my feelings are that the Sox blew it in the first place and spent 25 million bucks trying to correct the error that they themselves created.When so many people make the "ballpark sucks" excuse for not attending, why shouldn't they try to improve it? You can't just tear down a 13-year old building, "mistake" that it was. I like the improvements, and don't think you should punish the current players for a mistake that was made umpteen years ago by upper management. Fans who can still even harp about stuff like the ballpark and say "We're jealous of the Cubs, yeah." They don't look like buffoons?The fact is WE ARE MISERABLE, ALL OF US, because we haven't won squat in decades. Until that happens on a REGULAR basis we are going to stay miserable!That's certainly the best answer, and the fact that Rapoport needed to be told that is telling.I don't have a problem with that type of attitude. In fact I relish Sox fans putting winning ahead of every other issue. It makes us fans like George Steinbrenner. (now if we can only get him or his ilk to buy the team! LOL)I hate Steinbrenner and think he's bad for the game. I genuinely think Reinsdorf wants to win, but has financial constraints that Steinbrenner never had.

Lip Man 1
08-27-2003, 02:27 PM
That's the big question isn't it?

How much money does Uncle Jerry have and if it's a bunch why does he treat the Sox as a small market team? (Reinsdorf himself has called the Sox a small market club.)

Daver has some strong opinions on this I believe since he knows a great deal about the CBA and Uncle Jerry's position as CEO of the team... perhaps he'd like to chime in?

All I know is that Reinsdorf has the best stadium lease in sports according to John Heylar author of "The Lords Of The Realm," and he has traditionally kept the payroll down.

Logic tells me he's not losing money at all, plus the value of the Sox on the open market according to Forbes is over 250 million. Not a bad return on his initial investment of 14 million to buy the club in 81 eh?

His TV / radio revenue is the 5th highest in baseball trailing only the NY teams, the Dodgers and the Red Sox.

So I ask the question again, WHY won't he spend the money? Circumstancial evidence indicates that he has plenty of it.

Lip

sti3
08-27-2003, 02:44 PM
Questions for another thread aren't they? :). I'm sure they've been asked plenty with no satisfactory answers. :?: