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View Full Version : Frank v. Bagwell....Did you know?....


Tragg
08-24-2003, 01:11 PM
Frank just jumped ahead of Bagwell last night in career homers - 410-408.

They were born on the same day - 5/27/68

Both first basemen, although Bagwell has played in the field his entire career.

Bagwell leads in RBIs, 1396-1363

Frank leads in OBP, .429-.411

Frank leads in SP, .568-.547

Frank made his ML debut in 1990; Bagwell in 1991

Frank has 2 MVPs, Bagwell has 1 (Murray and Carter have 0)

Together to the hall of fame?

RKMeibalane
08-24-2003, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Together to the hall of fame?

Absolutely. Both have had excellent careers. Obviously, Frank's time at DH will probably delay his HOF induction, but based on his numbers, he deserves to be there. Anyone who can't see that is either incredibly stupid, knows nothing about baseball, or both.

The problem with Bagwell will be that he has spent his entire career playing for a team that doesn't get much attention. In spite of their success since his arrival in Houston, the Astros are pretty much an afterthought when it comes to talking about good National League teams. Why that is, I don't know, but it is true.

Again, both deserve to go to the Hall of Fame. First base has always been an offensive position, and these two have supplied plenty of that.

Nick@Nite
08-24-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Frank just jumped ahead of Bagwell last night in career homers - 410-408.

They were born on the same day - 5/27/68

Both first basemen, although Bagwell has played in the field his entire career.

Bagwell leads in RBIs, 1396-1363

Frank leads in OBP, .429-.411

Frank leads in SP, .568-.547

Frank made his ML debut in 1990; Bagwell in 1991

Together to the hall of fame?

:boston
"... um, Larry Andersen, anyone?"

chisoxfanatic
08-24-2003, 02:24 PM
Aside from the previous couple of years, the Big Hurt has been one of the most consistent players in baseball...He's led this team with his bat for ages!!! He is, for sure, a first-ballot hall of famer at the time he is eligible, if he can go out with a 'bang.'

MRKARNO
08-24-2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Frank just jumped ahead of Bagwell last night in career homers - 410-408.

They were born on the same day - 5/27/68

Both first basemen, although Bagwell has played in the field his entire career.

Bagwell leads in RBIs, 1396-1363

Frank leads in OBP, .429-.411

Frank leads in SP, .568-.547

Frank made his ML debut in 1990; Bagwell in 1991

Frank has 2 MVPs, Bagwell has 1 (Murray and Carter have 0)

Together to the hall of fame?

:boston

"I'd vote in Bill Mueller in before any of these chumps"

:moron

"Did somebody just mention the cubs? Oh wait, I did!"

:jerry

"Let's tinker with Frank's hall of fame ballots"

:reinsy

"Wait, hold up a second! Did somebody just say we have a future hall of famer on MY sox? Trade him away, we can't afford him and make sure to blame it on the fans"

:comiskey

"I didnt think there could ever be an owner cheaper than me, but Jerry is truly that"

Joel Perez
08-24-2003, 10:11 PM
Three more years of baseball + an average of 40 HRs in those three years = better-than-average chance at Cooperstown.

I would definitely like to see those two in the Hall together. Living in Houston when Bags was traded to the 'Stros, I remember when all of the Astro fans cried on losing a great bullpen and lockeroom guy in Larry Andersen, and he was, and then shouting in disgust "WE TRADED FOR A BALLPLAYER THAT WAS JUST IN DOUBLE-A???"

Whoever that GM was (sorry, I forgot who did that trade on Houston's side) should've got the Exec of the Year, plus votes for Steal of the Century.

Deadguy
08-25-2003, 02:16 PM
Both are first ballot HOFers IMO. Bagwell comes out on top, of course, but not by that much.

It'd be nice to see them go into the Hall in the same year. I think Bagwell mentioned that he might retire after 2006, while Thomas has said he'd like to play until he is 40, which would be 2008.

Brian26
08-25-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Frank just jumped ahead of Bagwell last night in career homers - 410-408.

They were born on the same day - 5/27/68

Both first basemen, although Bagwell has played in the field his entire career.

Bagwell leads in RBIs, 1396-1363

Frank leads in OBP, .429-.411

Frank leads in SP, .568-.547

Frank made his ML debut in 1990; Bagwell in 1991

Frank has 2 MVPs, Bagwell has 1 (Murray and Carter have 0)

Together to the hall of fame?

More similarities:

Both got divorced and cleaned out by two really hot chicks.

Frank's secretary's name: Lincoln. Bagwell's secretary: Kennedy.

RKMeibalane
08-25-2003, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Frank's secretary's name: Lincoln. Bagwell's secretary: Kennedy.

Vote Thomas in 2004!

fquaye149
08-25-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
Both are first ballot HOFers IMO. Bagwell comes out on top, of course, but not by that much.

It'd be nice to see them go into the Hall in the same year. I think Bagwell mentioned that he might retire after 2006, while Thomas has said he'd like to play until he is 40, which would be 2008.


why does bagwell come out on top? fielding?


at one point there could be a very good case made that frank was the best player in baseball...the same probably could not be said about bagwell...although he was very very very good also

BKozi
08-25-2003, 08:56 PM
I'm really hoping that Frank makes it in. I love the guy, but I'm still not convinced. He's had phenomenol career stats, but that DH thing is going to haunt him. Another problem is that even though his stats look impressive now, how will they look in 10 years? Batting statistics are still skyrocketing and in 10 years, there will be a bunch of guys with comparable numbers (I'm not saying AS good, but comparable) so I think the requirements for the Hall are going to go up too, especially for a DH. It also doesn't help that he isn't a media darling. If he would've played the majority of his games at 1st for 3 or 4 more years, he would've been a lock, but now I don't know.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens to Edgar Martinez. He's in the same boat.

guillen4life13
08-25-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by BKozi
I'm really hoping that Frank makes it in. I love the guy, but I'm still not convinced. He's had phenomenol career stats, but that DH thing is going to haunt him. Another problem is that even though his stats look impressive now, how will they look in 10 years? Batting statistics are still skyrocketing and in 10 years, there will be a bunch of guys with comparable numbers (I'm not saying AS good, but comparable) so I think the requirements for the Hall are going to go up too, especially for a DH. It also doesn't help that he isn't a media darling. If he would've played the majority of his games at 1st for 3 or 4 more years, he would've been a lock, but now I don't know.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens to Edgar Martinez. He's in the same boat.

It's still hard to find the type of numbers he had in the AL. In the NL, those numbers are common. AL? No (you always have one person who does it, but you never have the same person doing it consistently like Frank was). In the AL, the guys who put up those types of numbers are Giambi, Ramirez, and now, Rodriguez.

Tragg
08-26-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
More similarities:

Both got divorced and cleaned out by two really hot chicks.

Frank's secretary's name: Lincoln. Bagwell's secretary: Kennedy.

Now that is funny.
Ballplayers have secretaries?

Deadguy
08-26-2003, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
why does bagwell come out on top? fielding?


at one point there could be a very good case made that frank was the best player in baseball...the same probably could not be said about bagwell...although he was very very very good also

Bagwell's fielding and baserunning put him on top, I think. Thomas comes out on top in hitting, even when adjusting for league averages and home parks. But Bagwell ha been the better overall player throughout his career.

I was looking at a Total Baseball in 1998, and even then Bagwell had a higher Total Player Rating, and Bagwell was better from 1999 to 2002. Sabermetrics aren't perfect, but they are an objective way to compare players in different leagues and from differnt eras.

Thomas' defense is what really hurts him. Bill James has given 10 players since 1957 a grade of an F for their defensive value, and Thomas is one of them.