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MRKARNO
08-22-2003, 01:18 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1600663

Jayson stark lists pitchers and hitters who have cleared waivers and who have been blocked

Cleared and tradeable
Pitchers
Livan Hernandez
John Thomson
Freddy Garcia
Brian Anderson
Sterling Hitchcock
Pat Hentgen
Andy Ashby
Aaron Sele
Danny Graves
Jose Jimenez
Mike DeJean
Antonio Alfonseca
Steve Sparks

Bats
Jeff Conine
Tony Batista
Jason Kendall
Tony Clark
Juan Castro
Adam Kennedy
Rafael Palmeiro

Pitchers blocked
Javier Vazquez, Jason Johnson, Bartolo Colon, Esteban Loaiza, Joe Kennedy, Victor Zambrano, Ben Weber, Kerry Ligtenberg.

Bats blocked
Richie Sexson, Jose Vidro, Vladimir Guerrero, Carlos Beltran.

OK, why the HELL were Bartolo COlon and Esteban Loaiza placed on waivers?????? Did KW really have any plan on trading Loaiza???? Please tell me that he didnt or clarify something for me on the issue of the waiver wire.

On another note, why dont we go out there and try to get Livan Hernandez as the 4th starter and bump garland to 5? If we did that, we might have the best rotation in the AL. I know we might have to give away some good prospects up in return, but this would be key if we could pry him away from the expos who, while in the wild card race, might be better suited to stocking up their farm system. We would have the 6 mil option for livan for next year that would put less pressure on us to resign bartolo colon, whom I'm not sure we will resign unless we go far into the playoffs. I am one who thinks that we'll be lucky to resign the players we have and instead of going after a big name in FA, we should resign maggs to a long-term contract.

MarqSox
08-22-2003, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO

OK, why the HELL were Bartolo COlon and Esteban Loaiza placed on waivers?????? Did KW really have any plan on trading Loaiza???? Please tell me that he didnt or clarify something for me on the issue of the waiver wire.
My guess is, he put them out there on the off chance that the Sox imploded and fell out of the race ... I mean, hell, if you could convince some contending team that Loaiza is the second-coming of Cy Young and get a ridiculous amount of prospects back for him, it might have made sense. Anyway, as far as I can understand the waiver system, there isn't much risk in putting a player out there, so why not.

Dadawg_77
08-22-2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1600663

Jayson stark lists pitchers and hitters who have cleared waivers and who have been blocked

Cleared and tradeable
Pitchers
Livan Hernandez
John Thomson
Freddy Garcia
Brian Anderson
Sterling Hitchcock
Pat Hentgen
Andy Ashby
Aaron Sele
Danny Graves
Jose Jimenez
Mike DeJean
Antonio Alfonseca
Steve Sparks

Bats
Jeff Conine
Tony Batista
Jason Kendall
Tony Clark
Juan Castro
Adam Kennedy
Rafael Palmeiro

Pitchers blocked
Javier Vazquez, Jason Johnson, Bartolo Colon, Esteban Loaiza, Joe Kennedy, Victor Zambrano, Ben Weber, Kerry Ligtenberg.

Bats blocked
Richie Sexson, Jose Vidro, Vladimir Guerrero, Carlos Beltran.

OK, why the HELL were Bartolo COlon and Esteban Loaiza placed on waivers?????? Did KW really have any plan on trading Loaiza???? Please tell me that he didnt or clarify something for me on the issue of the waiver wire.

On another note, why dont we go out there and try to get Livan Hernandez as the 4th starter and bump garland to 5? If we did that, we might have the best rotation in the AL. I know we might have to give away some good prospects up in return, but this would be key if we could pry him away from the expos who, while in the wild card race, might be better suited to stocking up their farm system. We would have the 6 mil option for livan for next year that would put less pressure on us to resign bartolo colon, whom I'm not sure we will resign unless we go far into the playoffs. I am one who thinks that we'll be lucky to resign the players we have and instead of going after a big name in FA, we should resign maggs to a long-term contract.

Everyone goes on waivers.

jabrch
08-22-2003, 01:26 PM
was done just in case we fell apart (or didn't go on the hot streak we did to get back into the race)...

Then, it may have made sense to shop those guys around. As we stand, we are buyers in the SP market, not sellers. The name I like most on that list is Livan Hernandez. I am kinda surprised he A) cleared waivers and B) hasn't yet been dealt...

He has a 6MM club option for 2004. I'd strongly consider giving up one of our decent prospects for him. We'd have a great 5 man rotation the rest of the way...


But to answer the Q about Loaiza/Colon, they aren't available for this year. I hope we are working to resign Colon for 3 years and extend Loaiza past 2004.

FJA
08-22-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Everyone goes on waivers.

Yep; reason being, if there is someone you want to trade, you might be able to sneak him through waivers if he's among a team's worth of names.

Lip Man 1
08-22-2003, 01:29 PM
The way Hernandez has pitched this past month he'd be the guy I would go after and considering the Sox are going to lose Colon (see today's Daily Southtown for the comments coming out of N.Y. that he is their #1 target...) they could have him for next season to fill the gap at less money then it would take to pay Colon.

a win / win situation.

Lip

Brian26
08-22-2003, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The way Hernandez has pitched this past month he'd be the guy I would go after and considering the Sox are going to lose Colon (see today's Daily Southtown for the comments coming out of N.Y. that he is their #1 target...) they could have him for next season to fill the gap at less money then it would take to pay Colon.

a win / win situation.

Lip

That's too bad. Sox will never win a bidding war for him. You got a link to that article, Lip?

ozzman
08-22-2003, 01:56 PM
but if you read the article, i hope they find that it is a direct quote from a yankee official. that would violate the tampering rules and colon could not go there :) as kenny says, "eliminate one of the competitors right there"

here is the link sox notes (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/221sd3.htm)

hold2dibber
08-22-2003, 02:26 PM
Livan is clearly the name that jumps off the list at you. He would be a great addition to the starting rotation, but I'm sure a lot of other teams (i.e., Astros, Cardinals, Twins, Royals) are thinking the same thing, so I bet he won't come cheap. But I don't think I'd count on him to be the be all and end all. He is having a fantastic season, it's true. But over his career, he is a 4.23 ERA pitcher in the NL (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5734). I mean, he's above average, but he's only 2 years removed from a 5.24 ERA in one of the best pitcher's parks in the majors. So while I'd love to have him this year, I don't think I'd exercise a $6 mm option on him for next year. That money would be much better spent toward trying to re-sign Colon or Ordonez.

34 Inch Stick
08-22-2003, 04:47 PM
Colon may be gone, but at over the 8 million he earns this year I don't think he is worth it. He is a horse, but he has exactly 1, 20 win season in his career. His ERA is seems to always be in the 3.75 range. He is a very good pitcher but maybe not the elite one we thought we were getting.

hold2dibber
08-22-2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Colon may be gone, but at over the 8 million he earns this year I don't think he is worth it. He is a horse, but he has exactly 1, 20 win season in his career. His ERA is seems to always be in the 3.75 range. He is a very good pitcher but maybe not the elite one we thought we were getting.

Colon will not command a huge $ contract (or at least, not compared to what he would have earned if the FA market hadn't declined so much in the past few years). IMHO, he's unlikely to match Glavine's deal last off season (4 years at $36 mm, IIRC) and he won't get anywhere near Dreifert (!) money. My guess is 4 years, $30 million. I'd rather pay Colon $7.5 million a year than Livan Hernandez $6 million.

jabrch
08-22-2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I'd rather pay Colon $7.5 million a year than Livan Hernandez $6 million.

Me too!

RichH55
08-22-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The way Hernandez has pitched this past month he'd be the guy I would go after and considering the Sox are going to lose Colon (see today's Daily Southtown for the comments coming out of N.Y. that he is their #1 target...) they could have him for next season to fill the gap at less money then it would take to pay Colon.

a win / win situation.

Lip

There will be better options out there then Hernandez at 6.5 once his option vests...and that is important to remember

RichH55
08-22-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Colon may be gone, but at over the 8 million he earns this year I don't think he is worth it. He is a horse, but he has exactly 1, 20 win season in his career. His ERA is seems to always be in the 3.75 range. He is a very good pitcher but maybe not the elite one we thought we were getting.

Is it common to win 20 games every year? I was under the impression that 20 wins was nice, but not all that an important a detrimenent to a pitchers worth. Of course, I could be wrong:)

RichH55
08-22-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Everyone goes on waivers.

Shush......don't let your "facts" and clear headed thinking get in the way of bashing management

Lip Man 1
08-22-2003, 07:47 PM
I guess we'll have to see what his market value is but keep in mind one thing. The Red Sox were hot after him...I assume that will continue this off season, if the Yankees want him that badly they'll pay out the nose to keep him away from Boston.

He may be getting a LOT more then some folks think and Hernandez may be a bargain when all is said and done.

Lip

MRKARNO
08-22-2003, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I guess we'll have to see what his market value is but keep in mind one thing. The Red Sox were hot after him...I assume that will continue this off season, if the Yankees want him that badly they'll pay out the nose to keep him away from Boston.

He may be getting a LOT more then some folks think and Hernandez may be a bargain when all is said and done.

Lip

The KW ends up resigning him, it may put the resigning of Buehrle, Ordonez, alomar and an FA SS in jeopardy, because Colon is going to be resigned for more than he's worth unless he somehow has made a connection to CHicago

ChiWhiteSox1337
08-22-2003, 09:29 PM
The Cardinals have acquired Mike DeJean from the Brewers and Sterling Hitchcock from the yankees

doublem23
08-22-2003, 09:45 PM
Good! Beat those ****ing Cubs!

Tragg
08-22-2003, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
My guess is, he put them out there on the off chance that the Sox imploded and fell out of the race ... I mean, hell, if you could convince some contending team that Loaiza is the second-coming of Cy Young and get a ridiculous amount of prospects back for him, it might have made sense. Anyway, as far as I can understand the waiver system, there isn't much risk in putting a player out there, so why not.
That explains Colon, but not Loiza, who comes cheap next year.
Why weren't players like Konerko and Valentin put on waivers for the money reason?

Tragg
08-22-2003, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Me too!
Me three. Hernandez is a goofball.
But I don't think Colon is quite worth $8 mill.

oheeoh...magglio
08-22-2003, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
That explains Colon, but not Loiza, who comes cheap next year.
Why weren't players like Konerko and Valentin put on waivers for the money reason?

Doesn't Loaiza have a 1 year deal? If so, they prolly put him on waivers in case they fell out of the race so uncle jerry could deal him for prospects instead of having to pay him. If Loaiza's contract is longer than a year however, I have no idea what Loaiza would be even mentioned in the same sentence as waivers.

Tragg
08-22-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by oheeoh...magglio
Doesn't Loaiza have a 1 year deal? If so, they prolly put him on waivers in case they fell out of the race so uncle jerry could deal him for prospects instead of having to pay him. If Loaiza's contract is longer than a year however, I have no idea what Loaiza would be even mentioned in the same sentence as waivers.

I thought we had like a $3 mill option on him for next year - that's cheap for his production.

TheRockinMT
08-23-2003, 01:56 PM
I hope we try and sign Colon also, but 8M may be to high and I don't see anyone commanding the kind of money as in the past because there probably isn't any. Colon and Loaiza, Buerhle and Garland are a solid starting staff. Cotts has pitched fairly well, but Livan Hernandez would make this a great staff. We need that starter with some playoff experience.

MRKARNO
08-23-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
I hope we try and sign Colon also, but 8M may be to high and I don't see anyone commanding the kind of money as in the past because there probably isn't any. Colon and Loaiza, Buerhle and Garland are a solid starting staff. Cotts has pitched fairly well, but Livan Hernandez would make this a great staff. We need that starter with some playoff experience.

It might do wonders for this staff to get a starter with World Series experience from last year such as Livan Hernandez. I dont see the sox resigning Colon unless they decide to make a huge pay increase next year. Buehrle's up for arbitration and with nearly 20 quality starts and a 19 win year in his past, I dont see the sox paying him less than 8 mil, probably higher. We have a lot of other players to resign as well. Damaso Marte will likely come at a high price and KW would like to resign alomar (Probably closer to 4 or 5 mil this time around). KW probably will be looking to resign maggs to a long term contract next year and he is paid 14 mil next year. Dont forget Konerko's 8 mil next year. I dont see how bartolo fits into this equation