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View Full Version : Sox acquire Red reliever Scott Sullivan


cheeses_h_rice
08-21-2003, 10:09 PM
for a PTBNL.

Just announced by Hawk.

MarqSox
08-21-2003, 10:10 PM
There's your new bullpen patch. Any scouting reports?

kevingrt
08-21-2003, 10:10 PM
Just announced on both ESPN Radio and FSN

thepaulbowski
08-21-2003, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
for a PTBNL.

Just announced by Hawk.

Farmer & Rooney just mentioned it too

RKMeibalane
08-21-2003, 10:11 PM
Good. They needed another arm in the bullpen. I'm sure Jerry Manuel probably creamed in his pants when he heard the news, because he now has another player to practice his tinkering with.

:jerry

"Oh my goodness! Another pitcher!"

MarqSox
08-21-2003, 10:12 PM
Anybody know who goes down? My guess is Danny Wright.

Daver
08-21-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Anybody know who goes down? My guess is Danny Wright.

John Adkins makes the most sense.

cheeses_h_rice
08-21-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Anybody know who goes down? My guess is Danny Wright.

I think it will be one of the rookie pitchers -- Cotts or Adkins.

FJA
08-21-2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Anybody know who goes down? My guess is Danny Wright.

My guess is Jon Adkins. I bet Wright will go down when Koch comes back.

SoxFan76
08-21-2003, 10:14 PM
it has to be adkins

Dadawg_77
08-21-2003, 10:14 PM
Sidearmer. BP has his Adjusted Run Allowed at 4.8, which good. Tends to not allow inherrited runners to score or give up runs. Your top relievers are 28 to 11 on this scale.

MetalliSox
08-21-2003, 10:14 PM
Scott Sullivan is flat out nasty at times. He has a slider that is ALMOST as filthy as Nelson when he is on.

This is an awesome pick up IMO.

WHarris13
08-21-2003, 10:16 PM
It is a good trade as long as the PTBNL isnt anything special.

Jurr
08-21-2003, 10:17 PM
The Yanks and Red Sox were dying to get him....we must've dropped off something for him, right???????? I can't believe we outfoxed both of those contenders for this guy!!!!!!!!!!!

A.T. Money
08-21-2003, 10:17 PM
They need to do something with that bullpen. Good move.

cheeses_h_rice
08-21-2003, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by WHarris13
It is a good trade as long as the PTBNL isnt anything special.

You gotta give something to get something. I think whoever it is we give up will be pretty decent, a mid-level prospect.

Is Sullivan signed just through the end of this year?

Daver
08-21-2003, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
You gotta give something to get something. I think whoever it is we give up will be pretty decent, a mid-level prospect.

Is Sullivan signed just through the end of this year?

He has a 3.1 mil option for next year.

RKMeibalane
08-21-2003, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by daver
He has a 3.1 mil option for next year.

Where do you find this information?

FJA
08-21-2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by KonerkosHip
Scott Sullivan is flat out nasty at times. He has a slider that is ALMOST as filthy as Nelson when he is on.

This is an awesome pick up IMO.

Agreed ... I actually think he's filthier than Nelson ... his stats away from the Great American Batting Cage are unbelievable.

Great pickup. If Shoeneweis can pitch up to par and either Koch or Danny Wrong can contribute ANYTHING, we have an amazing bullpen. (Who knows ... maybe Koch's rehab will do some good.)

Either way, think about this if you're an opposing hitter--
From the right side: Gordon, Koch and Sullivan
From the left side: Wunsch, Marte and Schoenweis

That's dangerous.

JRIG
08-21-2003, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Where do you find this information?

There's an excellent contract site here:

http://www.bluemanc.demon.co.uk/baseball/mlbcontracts.htm

Effigy
08-21-2003, 10:24 PM
Got you guys a darn good horse. Nuxy said a PTBNL and Cash, but FSN said only a PTBNL, any word?

Anyways, Sully is nasty. He can go out and pitch every night and get outs. I'll sure as hell miss him, he was such a HUGE anchor in the pen for us.

Enjoy.

RKMeibalane
08-21-2003, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
There's an excellent contract site here:

http://www.bluemanc.demon.co.uk/baseball/mlbcontracts.htm

Thank you.

Dadawg_77
08-21-2003, 10:24 PM
Would the Reds want anyone we just drafted? Since you can't trade a player until a year after you draft him. But teams agree on someone and they become the PTBNL.

Daver
08-21-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane


Where do you find this information?


Originally posted by JRIG


There's an excellent contract site here:

http://www.bluemanc.demon.co.uk/baseball/mlbcontracts.htm

What he said.

:bandance:

Jjav829
08-21-2003, 10:25 PM
Great move by Kenny! It's a shame that he'll probably be gone after the season.

MarqSox
08-21-2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by daver
John Adkins makes the most sense.
Good lord, I forgot he was still up with the big club.

Daver
08-21-2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Would the Reds want anyone we just drafted? Since you can't trade a player until a year after you draft him. But teams agree on someone and they become the PTBNL.

They have to name the PTBL before the arbitration deadline,it cannot be a draft pick.

Jjav829
08-21-2003, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Good lord, I forgot he was still up with the big club.

:jerry
You're not the only one. And here all this time I thought his name was Jon Garland. Silly me...wait there are two Jon's?

Dadawg_77
08-21-2003, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by daver
They have to name the PTBL before the arbitration deadline,it cannot be a draft pick.

I thought you had a year to name a PTBNL.

Daver
08-21-2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
I thought you had a year to name a PTBNL.

You do if you make the trade the day after the arbitration deadline.

Tragg
08-21-2003, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
You gotta give something to get something. I think whoever it is we give up will be pretty decent, a mid-level prospect.

Is Sullivan signed just through the end of this year?

For a rent a player, let's hope it's real mid level.

Dadawg_77
08-21-2003, 10:34 PM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/1999/0908/46397.html

According to Rob it is six months but then again this was written before the latest CBA and the PTBNL has to change leagues. That why Bobby Hill wasn't called up to replace Gruz on the Cubs. Since he could not play in the same league between the time the deal was struck and player was named.

cheeses_h_rice
08-21-2003, 10:39 PM
LMAO.

Keep telling yourself that, Twinkiefan...

http://boards.espn.go.com/cgi/mlb/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=mlb_min&id=174951

Jjav829
08-21-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
LMAO.

Keep telling yourself that, Twinkiefan...

http://boards.espn.go.com/cgi/mlb/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=mlb_min&id=174951

Yeah, if the Twins got Sullivan, he would be going on and on about how this solidifies the Twinkies bullpen and yada yada yada.

BTW, according to the people at redszone.com, the AP is reporting that we are in fact getting cash in this deal.

MarkEdward
08-21-2003, 10:46 PM
Couple of random thoughts:

- Good acquisition, if the PTNBL doesn't turn out to be much (I assume it'll be a pitcher, since the Reds are in dire need of arms in the minors).

- Like Dawg said, Sullivan has been pretty good according to ARP. Not as good as Marte or Gordon, but above average nonetheless. Also using ARP: last year, Sullivan was one of the worst relievers in baseball (-12.4 ARP). In 2000 and 2001, however, he was one of the best relievers in baseball (26.3 and 16.6 ARP). Let's hope that 2002 was just an anomaly.

-He's a submariner, I think. That should be fun to watch.

- Like Effigy said, he's a workhorse. He's averaged more than an inning per game throughout his career. Our starters do tend to go late into the game, however, so I don't think this will play a big factor into Sully's use.

- His walk rate is a bit high (4.7/9 IP) and K rate a bit low (7.7/9 IP), but he's getting the job done, so I guess I shouldn't be complaining.

- I hope Jerry doesn't make him our closer.

Tragg
08-21-2003, 10:52 PM
I've never seen two teams out of the race a week out of the all star break have so many stud pitchers, like the baseball "gurus" and gms have made the pirate and red pitchers seem like.
I hope he throws well, but for a rent-a-middle-reliever, I hope he came cheap.

And let's note that reality has set in on many of these pirate/red greats in their new venues.

Effigy
08-21-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Couple of random thoughts:

- Good acquisition, if the PTNBL doesn't turn out to be much (I assume it'll be a pitcher, since the Reds are in dire need of arms in the minors). Not anymore, more like we're looking for a 3rd basemen. Any Crede clones in the farmsystem? Although I bet it is another pitcher, I would hope we'd go after a 3rd basemen. (Even tho we got Felipez Lopez, Ray Olmedo, Ryan Freel, and DJ fighting for the 3 other infield spots... I would still like to see us picking up a bright 3rd basemen. )

BTW, I am thinking it's gonna be a good prospect, because the Reds sent Sullivan AND money to the Sox.

Note: Sullivan was 37-24 with a 3.91 ERA in 494 appearances in nine seasons with the Reds.

His ERA would've been much much lower but last season he was playing hurt and his ERA was defalted.

Daver
08-21-2003, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Effigy
Not anymore, more like we're looking for a 3rd basemen. Any Crede clones in the farmsystem? Although I bet it is another pitcher, I would hope we'd go after a 3rd basemen. (Even tho we got Felipez Lopez, Ray Olmedo, Ryan Freel, and DJ fighting for the 3 other infield spots... I would still like to see us picking up a bright 3rd basemen. )

BTW, I am thinking it's gonna be a good prospect, because the Reds sent Sullivan AND money to the Sox.

Tim Hummel can handle third at the MLB level,and he can hit a bit too.

Effigy
08-21-2003, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by daver
Tim Hummel can handle third at the MLB level,and he can hit a bit too. Don't think it'd be him. We have enough weak hitting speedy infielders.. :o:

emaholic
08-21-2003, 11:42 PM
Nice. Now we have 2 Sullivan's in town. :D:

baseballboy
08-21-2003, 11:47 PM
I just heard that we not only got a great arm in the bullpen, but because we were a half game behind KC at the time he came through waivers to us first. KC wanted this guy bad and we blocked him. Instead of pulling him back Cincinatti decided to make a deal with us. That just doubles the pleasure. I would like to know where Jose Paniagua fits in now. That could be another great arm in the pen. We could be loaded if we make it into the playoffs. This is awesome!! I LOVE KENNY!!!!!!!!

voodoochile
08-21-2003, 11:48 PM
Anyway you look at this guy's stats, they come up good. He pitches equally well against righties (.650 OPS, .210 BAA) or lefties (.678 OPS, .213 BAA), averages almost exactly an inning/appearance yet has worked up to 2 innings at a time, has 10 Holds (worst stat ever) and only 1 BS, a very respectable ERA in the mid 3's and is 6-0.

I don't know a lot about him, but I cannot fault the stats. Like someone said earlier his primary problem is walks. He again holds both sides of the plate to low .300's slg%.

Great job, Kenny...

Tragg
08-22-2003, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by baseballboy
I just heard that we not only got a great arm in the bullpen, but because we were a half game behind KC at the time he came through waivers to us first. KC wanted this guy bad and we blocked him. Instead of pulling him back Cincinatti decided to make a deal with us.
Now that's cool.

Clembasbal
08-22-2003, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by baseballboy
I just heard that we not only got a great arm in the bullpen, but because we were a half game behind KC at the time he came through waivers to us first. KC wanted this guy bad and we blocked him. Instead of pulling him back Cincinatti decided to make a deal with us. That just doubles the pleasure. I would like to know where Jose Paniagua fits in now. That could be another great arm in the pen. We could be loaded if we make it into the playoffs. This is awesome!! I LOVE KENNY!!!!!!!!


I remember one time when San Diego blocked San Fran from Randy Meyers, he turned into a $7 million dollar bust for them. I hope Sully does the job.

And a friend of mine that always knows stuff will happen before it actually does (because he works for the Sox), told me that one of the PTBML had played for the Sox before and that he is on the 40 man roster, but not up on the 25 because they would have had to name him - if he was in the bigs at the time.

Wonder who...remember this is just one guy on the list not the exact person.

Tragg
08-22-2003, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by Clembasbal
I remember one time when San Diego blocked San Fran from Randy Meyers, he turned into a $7 million dollar bust for them. I hope Sully does the job.

And a friend of mine that always knows stuff will happen before it actually does (because he works for the Sox), told me that one of the PTBML had played for the Sox before and that he is on the 40 man roster, but not up on the 25 because they would have had to name him - if he was in the bigs at the time.


One of the PTTBNLs? I thought it was only one.
I hope it's only one for the rent a middle reliever. I view those NL central pitchers with a jaded eye.

MarkEdward
08-22-2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by Effigy
Not anymore, more like we're looking for a 3rd basemen.

Have ya'll given up on Brandon Larson?

Any Crede clones in the farmsystem?

Um, maybe Micah Schnurstein, but he's struggling in rookie ball right now.

Although I bet it is another pitcher, I would hope we'd go after a 3rd basemen. (Even tho we got Felipez Lopez, Ray Olmedo, Ryan Freel, and DJ fighting for the 3 other infield spots... I would still like to see us picking up a bright 3rd basemen. )

You guys could have a pretty good offense next year (the pitching OTOH... oy). Check out this line-up:
C: LaRue
1B: Dunn (must dump Casey)
2B: Jimenez
SS: Lopez
3B: Larson
LF: Griffey Jr.
CF: Stenson, maybe Pena
RF: Kearns.

OK, maybe not great, but there's hope. Plus, Ryan Wagner is a stud.

BTW, I am thinking it's gonna be a good prospect, because the Reds sent Sullivan AND money to the Sox.


Good point.

Dadawg_77
08-22-2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by Clembasbal
I remember one time when San Diego blocked San Fran from Randy Meyers, he turned into a $7 million dollar bust for them. I hope Sully does the job.

And a friend of mine that always knows stuff will happen before it actually does (because he works for the Sox), told me that one of the PTBML had played for the Sox before and that he is on the 40 man roster, but not up on the 25 because they would have had to name him - if he was in the bigs at the time.

Wonder who...remember this is just one guy on the list not the exact person.

Sanders? Fits the Reds need for pitching

Dadawg_77
08-22-2003, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by baseballboy
I just heard that we not only got a great arm in the bullpen, but because we were a half game behind KC at the time he came through waivers to us first. KC wanted this guy bad and we blocked him. Instead of pulling him back Cincinatti decided to make a deal with us. That just doubles the pleasure. I would like to know where Jose Paniagua fits in now. That could be another great arm in the pen. We could be loaded if we make it into the playoffs. This is awesome!! I LOVE KENNY!!!!!!!!

That is truly sweet plus the fact the trade was announced right after the Sox surpass KC in the standings.

mac9001
08-22-2003, 12:27 AM
I'm guessing Jon Rauch is the PTBNL, just a guess.

MRKARNO
08-22-2003, 12:31 AM
Either rauch sanders ginter or stewert, but hopefully not rauch because when he's healthy I think he will be a solid ML starter

Lip Man 1
08-22-2003, 12:36 AM
Thank God! It's about damn time Kenny...

Two questions:

I haven't heard word one on Jose' Paniagua. The Pan Am games are over. Where is he? Is he in Charlotte? Is he having visa issues?

Second, what is the status on Koch? If he could just pitch decent in the final six weeks it could really set up the bullpen.

Now if Kenny can just pick up a decent 5th starter for the stretch.



Lip

manuelsucks
08-22-2003, 12:39 AM
Its good to see that KW is going out there and getting some good stuff for us. We need some help because Marte and Gordon can't keep going in all the time

Good pick up Kenny.

Tragg
08-22-2003, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by mac9001
I'm guessing Jon Rauch is the PTBNL, just a guess.
I certainly hope not.
And I really hope we/Kenny remember that WE got mid-level AA prospect(s) when we dumped middle relievers.
Sullivan is 32, and a career middle reliever. Middle relievers are middle relievers for a reason. The reds sucked for a reason - and it isn't because they had a team full of great players. He's never started a game and has 9 career saves since 1995. You don't give top prospects for career middle relievers, especially of the rental variety. Can you say Larry Andersen?
The yanks want everybody - so that's nothing new; if the bosox want him, that's probably a negative sign - gammons can't keep spinning the "theo epstien is a genius" silly stuff forever.

mac9001
08-22-2003, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by manuelsucks
Its good to see that KW is going out there and getting some good stuff for us. We need some help because Marte and Gordon can't keep going in all the time

Good pick up Kenny.

This is a guy the Yankees and Red Sox's really wanted, plus we get cash. My money is on a top prospect, Rauch fits. I hope i'm wrong.

LASOXFAN
08-22-2003, 12:58 AM
I hate to piss on this parade, but has anyone noticed that we're getting damaged goods? Sullivan's rated as a power pitcher on ESPN and he just came off the DL two weeks ago with tendinitis in his right shoulder. Yes, that's his throwing arm we're talking about.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5383

It's the same problem that led to his terrible year last year. This is a dicey and extremely risky move in my book since we will likely lose Rauch for a man on the downside of his career whose option will never get picked up this winter.

Kenny's rolling the bones in a big way, but screw it. If you don't play, you don't win, right?

Tragg
08-22-2003, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
I hate to piss on this parade, but has anyone noticed that we're getting damaged goods? Sullivan's rated as a power pitcher on ESPN and he just came off the DL two weeks ago with tendinitis in his right shoulder. Yes, that's his throwing arm we're talking about.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5383

It's the same problem that led to his terrible year last year. This is a dicey and extremely risky move in my book since we will likely lose Rauch for a man on the downside of his career whose option will never get picked up this winter.

Kenny's rolling the bones in a big way, but screw it. If you don't play, you don't win, right?

For a top prospect, you can get a stud closer on a non-contender. Kenny Williams brings us a career middle reliever. I credit him for trying, but this is in the lineage of clayton and alomar (sandy) - get overpriced mediocrity to fill holes.
We didn't exactly "outfox" anyone either - we had one of the worst 2 or three records of all of the contenders so we get first waiver wire choices - we outfoxed the Twins and Dodgers I suppose - but we hardly outfoxed the Yankees.
Hopefully it isn't Rauch, but some mid level AA prospect that this deal deserves.

mac9001
08-22-2003, 01:15 AM
Sullivan's is one of the best relievers in baseball, he had to pitch in one of baseball most hitter friendly parks. Just look at the road/home splits.

Home: 6.26 ERA, .245 OBA, 27.1 IP
Road: 0.40 ERA, .165 OBA, 22.1 IP

The numbers speak for themselves. This guy can pitch and will be a horse in the Sox bullpen.

Tragg
08-22-2003, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by mac9001
Sullivan's is one of the best relievers in baseball, he had to pitch in one of baseball most hitter friendly parks. Just look at the road/home splits.

Home: 6.26 ERA, .245 OBA, 27.1 IP
Road: 0.40 ERA, .165 OBA, 22.1 IP

The numbers speak for themselves. This guy can pitch and will be a horse in the Sox bullpen.
9 saves and 0 starts in 9 major league seasons also speak for themselves.

mac9001
08-22-2003, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
9 saves and 0 starts in 9 major league seasons also speak for themselves.

I'm not saying he's a closer, but he's one of the best non-closer relievers is baseball. Just ask a Reds fan, the man has some nasty stuff.

spanishwhite
08-22-2003, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by mac9001
I'm guessing Jon Rauch is the PTBNL, just a guess.

HIGHLY DOUBT IT!!!!!

mac9001
08-22-2003, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by spanishwhite
HIGHLY DOUBT IT!!!!!

Talk to a Reds fan, the view this guy as Sox fans view Damaso. I'm hope to God i'm wrong, i've always been a big Jon Rauch fan.

spanishwhite
08-22-2003, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
I certainly hope not.
And I really hope we/Kenny remember that WE got mid-level AA prospect(s) when we dumped middle relievers.
Sullivan is 32, and a career middle reliever. Middle relievers are middle relievers for a reason. The reds sucked for a reason - and it isn't because they had a team full of great players. He's never started a game and has 9 career saves since 1995. You don't give top prospects for career middle relievers, especially of the rental variety. Can you say Larry Andersen?
The yanks want everybody - so that's nothing new; if the bosox want him, that's probably a negative sign - gammons can't keep spinning the "theo epstien is a genius" silly stuff forever.

If the Yankees and Red Sox wanted him, couldn't the Blue Jays or us block the trade because we had the worse of the records.

Not sure on the waiver rules.

I don't think KW got crazy and traded Rauch, but Sanders and Ginter are actually interesting candidates.

Hummel might be a possibility.

mac9001
08-22-2003, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by spanishwhite
If the Yankees and Red Sox wanted him, couldn't the Blue Jays or us block the trade because we had the worse of the records.

Not sure on the waiver rules.

I don't think KW got crazy and traded Rauch, but Sanders and Ginter are actually interesting candidates.

Hummel might be a possibility.

We did block Sullivan, that's how the deal got started. The Sox's claimed him and the Reds instead of pulling him back worked out a trade with the Sox's.

MisterB
08-22-2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by spanishwhite
If the Yankees and Red Sox wanted him, couldn't the Blue Jays or us block the trade because we had the worse of the records.

Not sure on the waiver rules.

There's a quick rundown on them here (http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/baseball/6432633.htm) .

lowesox
08-22-2003, 03:07 AM
I love what this trade does for Billy Koch. It takes all the pressure away from him. Let's face it, he's got a million dollar arm, so I think being so far down on the depth chart will really motivate him to get his butt in gear. No question, now that we have Sullivan, I can't wait until we get Koch back.

But no matter how well he pitches, I don't want him closing.

baseballboy
08-22-2003, 05:33 AM
You guys that are saying the reds are so bad are missing one point. They had a strong bullpen. Everyone knew this before the season started and that is why they had to move Graves to the rotation. They had one of the best bullpens in baseball. They suck because they have a god awful starting rotation and a lineup full of strikeouts. Those are not good combinations for winning baseball. They have been trading bullpen guys, which was their strength.

fquaye149
08-22-2003, 07:33 AM
i doubt we gave up sanders or ginter...

why would the reds trade a solid right handed relief pitcher for a less than solid right handed relief pitchers who's only a little younger?



i have a good feeling about sullivan....as soon as i got online last night i got an im from my friend from school who's a reds fan reading:

"**** you! i liked sully!"

soxtalker
08-22-2003, 08:34 AM
There was a discussion on another thread in the past day or so about why Rauch hadn't been brought up to the big league club. He's been pitching extremely well. There wasn't any very satisfying answer. I hope that it isn't him, but he sure would fit the profile.

gosox41
08-22-2003, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by fquaye149
i doubt we gave up sanders or ginter...

why would the reds trade a solid right handed relief pitcher for a less than solid right handed relief pitchers who's only a little younger?



i have a good feeling about sullivan....as soon as i got online last night i got an im from my friend from school who's a reds fan reading:



I like the fact the Sox got another arm. I feel much more confident about the 'pen (Sully is healthy isn't he??) I hope the Sox didn't give up too much for him, though. A 32 year old middle reliever is not worth Jon Rauch IMHO.

Bob

Hangar18
08-22-2003, 09:38 AM
I like the trade on paper........See what he can do BEFORE 9/1, but the more I think about it....this is a BAD TRADE if we Lose Jon Rauch in this deal. Just wouldnt be worth it

Procol Harum
08-22-2003, 09:59 AM
I'm bullish on this one from looking at the numbers, from what I've seen of Sullivan against the Grubs over the years, and because my Red-fan buddy vouches for him as a steady, inning-eatin' middle reliever. Barring the effects of the Chicago baseball curse this looks like a big two thumbs-up move.

Between the Alomar and Everett moves and this one, Kenny is really playing havoc with my worldview....I'm almost being forced to think he might actually know what he's doin'.... :o:

hold2dibber
08-22-2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
There was a discussion on another thread in the past day or so about why Rauch hadn't been brought up to the big league club. He's been pitching extremely well. There wasn't any very satisfying answer. I hope that it isn't him, but he sure would fit the profile.

There is no way in hell KW would trade Jon Rauch for 35 games of Sullivan. Please, no one buy into this - it is NOT going to be Rauch.

soxtalker
08-22-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Procol Harum
I'm bullish on this one from looking at the numbers, from what I've seen of Sullivan against the Grubs over the years, and because my Red-fan buddy vouches for him as a steady, inning-eatin' middle reliever. Barring the effects of the Chicago baseball curse this looks like a big two thumbs-up move.

Between the Alomar and Everett moves and this one, Kenny is really playing havoc with my worldview....I'm almost being forced to think he might actually know what he's doin'.... :o:

KW appears to be getting lots of praise for this, but we don't know what the price is. And, quite frankly, we won't really be able to judge the trade (and the other mid-season trades) until sometime next year at the earliest.

As I've said before, KW has been consistently aggressive throughout his tenure. I'm hoping that he's getting smarter at it. It is certainly making the season more exciting.

Steve Bartman
08-22-2003, 10:14 AM
:reinsy
"Job well done Kenny, way to go with getting the Reds to throw in some cash."

soxtalker
08-22-2003, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
There is no way in hell KW would trade Jon Rauch for 35 games of Sullivan. Please, no one buy into this - it is NOT going to be Rauch.

hold2dibber,

I hope you are right -- I'm definitely not advocating it. The one person who we should hope doesn't buy into it is KW. But we've seen him trade away some of our best prospects -- sometimes he's been right, sometimes not.

jabrch
08-22-2003, 10:20 AM
I am fine with this. I want to see this team win THIS SEASON. Sullivan will help us. Also, we have him for 3.1 next year if we want. I like the move. Now, if our starters can go 7 strong innings, we are closer to having a lockdown bullpen. And on days when we run out our 5th starter, if he can only go 4 or 5, we have enough arms that we can trot out there to remain close and see if our bats can win it for us. This was a good move. I still wish a 5th stater was available, but I haven't seen a good one traded yet that we missed out on.

Clarkdog
08-22-2003, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
There is no way in hell KW would trade Jon Rauch for 35 games of Sullivan. Please, no one buy into this - it is NOT going to be Rauch.

I agree. That would really be overpaying.

If I'm not mistaken, the waiver rules force the Reds to either deal with the Sox or pull Sullivan back. So it isn't an open market scenario where the highest bidder wins. Since there was cash given to the Sox, I'm sure that sweetened the pot for the Reds but not sweeter than a guy like Mitch Wylie or Ryan Meaux.

chosk8
08-22-2003, 10:59 AM
I don't know how reliable this is, but it says Tim Hummel will be the PTBNL...

http://cincypost.com/2003/08/22/reds08-22-2003.html

CHISOXFAN13
08-22-2003, 11:13 AM
If Hummel is the PTBNL, this is a steal.

I love the fact that someone in this down actually has the balls to make a move to try and win.

34 Inch Stick
08-22-2003, 11:43 AM
Why is everyone just assuming it would be Rauch? The only evidence that it would be Rauch is a friend of a friend who is nominally a part of the Sox organization told a member of this board. If you are willing to accept that, I hope none of you is in charge of managing money. The WSI member "in the know" did not even say that is was Rauch.

It would not be difficult to believe that Ginter was the man. He has done well in the minors as a starter. He has shown some ability in the majors. He would immediately fit into the Reds rotation (damning with faint praise).

Fellas, remember what we recieved for Durham and Lofton, and we did pay salary in those cases. This is a good move and the quality of the prospect will be minimal.

maurice
08-22-2003, 12:11 PM
If they dealt Hummel, they must expect to re-sign Alomar. Graffy can't be both the starting 2B and the utility IF next year.

harwar
08-22-2003, 12:29 PM
This guy(Sullivan) is exactly what the doctor ordered.I now feel confident that not only will we win the division,but we may go deep into the playoffs.A solid bullpen is all important in the post-season.
I used to rip KW up and down and sideways,seven days to sunday.I take it back.The guy is dealing and pulling off some good ones not only for today but for tomorrow.

TornLabrum
08-22-2003, 12:41 PM
A little while ago "Mike" called Boers and Hanley stating that "White Sox Interactive, a rumor site run by media people" said that Jon Rauch was the PTBNL. I don't know if this is good or bad for WSI, but it sure as hell misrepresents us.

voodoochile
08-22-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
A little while ago "Mike" called Boers and Hanley stating that "White Sox Interactive, a rumor site run by media people" said that Jon Rauch was the PTBNL. I don't know if this is good or bad for WSI, but it sure as hell misrepresents us.

Again? (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23467)

Still living in trollboys head, I see. Jealousy is an ugly emotion...

schlomo
08-22-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by daver
Tim Hummel can handle third at the MLB level,and he can hit a bit too.

I'd rather bring back Tim Hulett than Tim Hummel.

RichH55
08-22-2003, 01:29 PM
Now this feels good.....I wanted Sully for awhile, and even posted about a week and a half ago as to how he made sense and could be a posibility....always feels good to be vindicated

TornLabrum
08-22-2003, 02:07 PM
"Mike's" call to Boers and Hanley has now transformed into, "Apparently there is a website out there that has published a list of the names the possible players to be traded." Good grief!

Effigy
08-22-2003, 02:42 PM
Have ya'll given up on Brandon Larson? He still looks lost. He looks overmatched at the plate and while he was healthy, couldn't make contact with anything. Now he's on the DL again, and I just don't see this guy ever being a starting 3rd basemen, because not only is his major league approach at the plate is wack, his infield defense is pretty poor too. You guys could have a pretty good offense next year (the pitching OTOH... oy). Check out this line-up:
C: LaRue
1B: Dunn (must dump Casey)
2B: Jimenez
SS: Lopez
3B: Larson
LF: Griffey Jr.
CF: Stenson, maybe Pena
RF: Kearns.

OK, maybe not great, but there's hope. Plus, Ryan Wagner is a stud. I think Lopez will probally spend most of the year at Triple A next year, unless he just totally kicks ass in Spring Training.

Jimenez, 2B
Dunn, RF
Kearns, CF
Griffey, LF
Casey, 1B
LaRue, C
Hummel, 3B
Olmedo, SS

Is a pretty nice lineup. The only way they'll move Casey is if they get a Kris Benson type inreturn, and I don't know if that'll happen. Bowden said he was untouchable when he was here, we'll see what the new GMs think. You guys that are saying the reds are so bad are missing one point. They had a strong bullpen. Everyone knew this before the season started and that is why they had to move Graves to the rotation. They had one of the best bullpens in baseball. They suck because they have a god awful starting rotation and a lineup full of strikeouts. Those are not good combinations for winning baseball. They have been trading bullpen guys, which was their strength. And those same guys, besides Sullivan and Gabe White will most likely be back. Kent Merker hinted he wanted to stay in Cincinnati and could come back next season. John Riedling, Chris Reitsma, Felix Heredia, and some arms like Almanzar, Valentine and others in Triple A could reform the great bullpen. But we'll see - who would've thought Gabe White, Felix Heredia and Kent Merker would find their stuff again and be as dominate as they have? Not me. I don't know how reliable this is, but it says Tim Hummel will be the PTBNL...

http://cincypost.com/2003/08/22/reds08-22-2003.html Intersting...

PaleHoseGeorge
08-22-2003, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
A little while ago "Mike" called Boers and Hanley stating that "White Sox Interactive, a rumor site run by media people" said that Jon Rauch was the PTBNL. I don't know if this is good or bad for WSI, but it sure as hell misrepresents us.

Two thought on this.

1.) Even the lowest of the low-brow humor sports blab radio shows broadcasting on WSCR-670 draws 1000-times the audience an internet website like WSI ever could. If only 1 in 100 of those listeners are curious enough to checkout this website-- that they wouldn't otherwise have ever heard about--we come out way, WAY ahead for the free publicity. Keep it coming, you frickin' idiot. :smile:

2.) It is truly the measure of how lame is the choice of callers the Score must sift through and place on the air that an idiot like this is getting 50,000 clear channel watts to give us free publicity to an audience of a size we could never reach otherwise. While I'm sure this idiot is waaaaay too dumb to understand this simple fact, the producers of the Score sports blab shows understand it quite well. Don't expect it to last much longer. :(: + :cool:

TornLabrum
08-22-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Two thought on this.

1.) Even the lowest of the low-brow humor sports blab radio shows broadcasting on WSCR-670 draws 1000-times the audience an internet website like WSI ever could. If only 1 in 100 of those listeners are curious enough to checkout this website-- that they wouldn't otherwise have ever heard about--we come out way, WAY ahead for the free publicity. Keep it coming, you frickin' idiot. :smile:

2.) It is truly the measure of how lame is the choice of callers the Score must sift through and place on the air that an idiot like this is getting 50,000 clear channel watts to give us free publicity to an audience of a size we could never reach otherwise. While I'm sure this idiot is waaaaay too dumb to understand this simple fact, the producers of the Score sports blab shows understand it quite well. Don't expect it to last much longer. :(: + :cool:

The only saving grace to part two is that the 50 kW only reach the 38 states and Canada after dark, so his stupidity only carries over a radius of a couple of hundred miles.

hold2dibber
08-22-2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Keep it coming, you frickin' idiot.

This question has haunted me for a while now:

Friggin' OR frickin'? I've gone with the "friggin" myself (I think it sounds funnier, for some reason), but the hard "ck" in "frickin'" make it a closer facsimile to the original, I suppose. :?:

MikeKreevich
08-22-2003, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
This question has haunted me for a while now:

Friggin' OR frickin'? I've gone with the "friggin" myself (I think it sounds funnier, for some reason), but the hard "ck" in "frickin'" make it a closer facsimile to the original, I suppose. :?:
The correct term is frigging, a term for female masturbation.

kermittheefrog
08-22-2003, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Either rauch sanders ginter or stewert, but hopefully not rauch because when he's healthy I think he will be a solid ML starter

You all continue to talk about Rauch as if he someday will be healthy...

TornLabrum
08-22-2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by Guzman's Goat
The correct term is frigging, a term for female masturbation.

frig [fręg]
verb (frigs, frigging, frigged) (taboo slang)
1 to have sexual intercourse with

2 to masturbate

3 [intr; foll by around, about, etc] to behave foolishly or aimlessly
[ETYMOLOGY: C15 (in the sense: to wriggle): of uncertain origin; perhaps related to obsolete frike strong, or to Old English frigan to love]

cheeses_h_rice
08-22-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
A little while ago "Mike" called Boers and Hanley stating that "White Sox Interactive, a rumor site run by media people" said that Jon Rauch was the PTBNL. I don't know if this is good or bad for WSI, but it sure as hell misrepresents us.

<whispers> OK, you guys have to hid Phil Rogers and Les Grobstein next time there's a WSI management meeting.

jeremyb1
08-22-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
You all continue to talk about Rauch as if he someday will be healthy...

How do we know that he's not? A short stint on the D.L. with tendinitis doesn't mean he'll never be healthy again. Maybe there are reports on his health that I'm unaware of but I think the assumption that no pitcher with Rauch's surgery is ever the same again is completely off base. All I've ever heard is that its the most serious surgery a pitcher can have and that some other pitchers haven't recovoered. That the injury is more serious than others still gives us little to no information about the severity of the injury in general while the latter in simply anecdotal evidence with next to no sample size. Clearly the prognosis wasn't glowing at any point but I don't believe in blindly accepting that Rauch will never be healthy again just because he had serious surgery. For all I know he's healthy as can be right now.

jeremyb1
08-22-2003, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by chosk8
I don't know how reliable this is, but it says Tim Hummel will be the PTBNL...

http://cincypost.com/2003/08/22/reds08-22-2003.html

Its Hummel. I don't see why there's any reason to doubt a Cincinatti newspaper about this. Baseball America didn't question the report. People always try to deny the reports that leak out on the PTBNL's and they're always true.

jabrch
08-22-2003, 06:24 PM
Seems like a good trade to me... Sullivan is signed for another year. He sounds like a great clubhouse guy and a tough RHP vs righties. Seems like a good pickup for us...

L
Wunsch
Marte
Schoenweis

R
Koch/Wright
Sullivan
Flash


That's a good pen...We don't have a dominant closer of the Wagner/Smoltz/Gagne/Rivera mold, but only one AL team does. We have multiple options from both sides of the plate.

I like it

34 Inch Stick
08-23-2003, 01:07 PM
Goofs on the SCORE are also saying it could be Cotts. It is two days after the trade. Doesn't anyone on radio believe in doing investigating on a subject

TornLabrum
08-23-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Goofs on the SCORE are also saying it could be Cotts. It is two days after the trade. Doesn't anyone on radio believe in doing investigating on a subject

"Mike" of "media-run website" fame said this thread (although he didn't identify it as such) said both Cotts and Rauch. He's right if you go back about 4 or 5 pages.

What "Mike" did was take the idle speculation in this thread and turn it into a full-blown rumor. By the time the show was over, Brian Hanley had "a website somewhere" having a list of possible players that the Sox had offered the Reds.

All from one guy saying, "I'll bet it's Cotts" and another saying, "I'll bet it's Rauch."

kermittheefrog
08-23-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
How do we know that he's not? A short stint on the D.L. with tendinitis doesn't mean he'll never be healthy again. Maybe there are reports on his health that I'm unaware of but I think the assumption that no pitcher with Rauch's surgery is ever the same again is completely off base. All I've ever heard is that its the most serious surgery a pitcher can have and that some other pitchers haven't recovoered. That the injury is more serious than others still gives us little to no information about the severity of the injury in general while the latter in simply anecdotal evidence with next to no sample size. Clearly the prognosis wasn't glowing at any point but I don't believe in blindly accepting that Rauch will never be healthy again just because he had serious surgery. For all I know he's healthy as can be right now.

Have you taken a look at his numbers from this season? Whether he's "healthy" or not he's not the same guy as he was before the surgery and there is little reason to think he ever will be. I would have rather given up Rauch than Hummel.

FarWestChicago
08-23-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Two thought on this.

1.) Even the lowest of the low-brow humor sports blab radio shows broadcasting on WSCR-670 draws 1000-times the audience an internet website like WSI ever could. If only 1 in 100 of those listeners are curious enough to checkout this website-- that they wouldn't otherwise have ever heard about--we come out way, WAY ahead for the free publicity. Keep it coming, you frickin' idiot. :smile:

2.) It is truly the measure of how lame is the choice of callers the Score must sift through and place on the air that an idiot like this is getting 50,000 clear channel watts to give us free publicity to an audience of a size we could never reach otherwise. While I'm sure this idiot is waaaaay too dumb to understand this simple fact, the producers of the Score sports blab shows understand it quite well. Don't expect it to last much longer. :(: + :cool: There is no such thing as bad publicity. :bandance:

FarWestChicago
08-23-2003, 04:22 PM
:tomatoaward

Mammoo
08-23-2003, 11:50 PM
It isn't very often (as all of us know only too well) when our team has a very real chance to go to the post season. When that chance presents itself, bold moves are required by management. That is exactly what Ken Williams is giving us. If he sat idly by, we would be all over him and rightly so.

Remember, the GM at the other end of the cell phone has an agenda too; to improve his team. I am sick and tired of waiting for the future to get here. If it takes trading Hummel, Rauch or Cotts to get us to the World Series, I say go for it! :smile:

Thanks, KW :gulp:

soxtalker
08-25-2003, 03:10 PM
This may have been posted elsewhere, but in case not...

Even the Sox official site has a story (under Notes), dated Sunday at 2pm CDT, indicating that Hummel is the likely player to be named later. It explains that it isn't official until he clears waivers. If that falls through, the Sox have to send someone else at the end of the season.

http://whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20030824&content_id=496256&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cha

jcw218
08-25-2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
This may have been posted elsewhere, but in case not...

Even the Sox official site has a story (under Notes), dated Sunday at 2pm CDT, indicating that Hummel is the likely player to be named later. It explains that it isn't official until he clears waivers. If that falls through, the Sox have to send someone else at the end of the season.

http://whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20030824&content_id=496256&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cha

The article cites a report that appeared in a Cincy paper on Friday Aug 22, the morning after the trade. Kenny refused to confirm or deny that Hummel is in fact the player to be named.