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View Full Version : Prior: Better a Cub or Twin?


bobj4400
08-21-2003, 01:53 PM
The thread about hyped up Flub prospects, got me thinking about the Greatest Prospect Ever, The Messiah Himself, Mark Prior. As White Sox fans, should we be glad Pohlad is a cheap owner and wouldnt pay Prior allowing him to fall to the Flubs?

If you remember correctly, the Twins selected high school catcher Joe Mauer in the 2002 draft allowing Prior to fall to the Cubbies b/c they werent going to meet his demand for a 10 mil signing bonus.

As White Sox fans, what is worse: that we have to read Moronotti columns about how Prior is the greatest pitcher in the history of the game every day (yes, there is another one today), or if he were to be pitching for our archrivals, the Twins?

Unregistered
08-21-2003, 02:01 PM
I'd definately say that I'd rather have him pitch for the Scrubs for the simple fact that we dont have to face the guy 5-6 times a season. Screw what the Cubs do, we're trying to win a division here.

davenicholson
08-21-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
The thread about hyped up Flub prospects, got me thinking about the Greatest Prospect Ever, The Messiah Himself, Mark Prior. As White Sox fans, should we be glad Pohlad is a cheap owner and wouldnt pay Prior allowing him to fall to the Flubs?

If you remember correctly, the Twins selected high school catcher Joe Mauer in the 2002 draft allowing Prior to fall to the Cubbies b/c they werent going to meet his demand for a 10 mil signing bonus.

As White Sox fans, what is worse: that we have to read Moronotti columns about how Prior is the greatest pitcher in the history of the game every day (yes, there is another one today), or if he were to be pitching for our archrivals, the Twins?
To me, this seems like a no-brainer. Let the cubbie press kiss his feet all they want; at least he's not winning games for what is probably the Sox's biggest rival in their division. And though he may not quite be JC Himself, Prior *is* a darn good pitcher!

ssang
08-21-2003, 02:04 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that I would EASILY prefer Prior on the TWINS! I can't take it anymore with these damn Cub fans and the media love affair. Not to mention, he's friggin' awesome and will be the CUBS ace for many many years. He could eventually become the top pitcher in the game. In fact, Prior is already maybe a top 5 starter in baseball. And he's a goddamn Cub. If he were with Minnesota we'd hear a lot less about him AND he's be gone as soon as his initial contract expires. With the Cubs, they'll never let him go. They learned after the Maddux thing. I don't care that the Twins are our supposed rival. This isn't fun.

Iwritecode
08-21-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by bobj4400
The thread about hyped up Flub prospects, got me thinking about the Greatest Prospect Ever, The Messiah Himself, Mark Prior. As White Sox fans, should we be glad Pohlad is a cheap owner and wouldnt pay Prior allowing him to fall to the Flubs?

If you remember correctly, the Twins selected high school catcher Joe Mauer in the 2002 draft allowing Prior to fall to the Cubbies b/c they werent going to meet his demand for a 10 mil signing bonus.

As White Sox fans, what is worse: that we have to read Moronotti columns about how Prior is the greatest pitcher in the history of the game every day (yes, there is another one today), or if he were to be pitching for our archrivals, the Twins?

Having lived with the Moron kissing Shammy's butt for all these years, I can put up with him doing the same with Prior.

Prior is a stud and if the Twins would have gotten him instead of the Cubs, I doubt that they'd be a half a game behind the Sox right now. I'm glad we only have to worry about facing him, at most, twice rather than 5 or 6 times a year.

It should be interesting to see how they do the next few years and see if they are able to sign him to a long term contract or not...

CHISOXFAN13
08-21-2003, 02:06 PM
If Prior pitched for Minnesota, we'd be 10 games back.

I can't understand why anyone would want him to pitch for the MAIN DIVISION rival.

Iwritecode
08-21-2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by ssang
With the Cubs, they'll never let him go. They learned after the Maddux thing.

I know I mentioned this in my post but does anyone think Prior will stay with the Cubs long-term? Sosa and Wood are pretty much the only guys on that team that have actually been around for more than 3 years. What do either one of them have to show for it? One wild card and a 0-3 post season record? Not even back-to-back winning seasons once! Like I said, what that team does in the next few years will probably determine whether or not Prior will stick around or decide to go to a team where he has a better chance of getting a ring. I'll be suprised if Wood decides to stick around too. Shammy is only there still because his ego won't fit out the door...

Hangar18
08-21-2003, 02:20 PM
Actually, as much as Im GLAD hes not in our division, Im going to take the High Road here, and Look for the Betterment of Baseball, our division especially. I believe most Twinkie fans are nice people, if not a little too polite. Having Prior on that team would/couldve been worth at least 10 more victories for that team, and Surely a 1st Place holder at this moment. Had they been a little closer to first, Maybe they make a few moves, and actually HELP themselves stay better instead of outright releasing players like David Ortiz, whom they miss dearly, simply because they cant afford him? Prior wouldve gotten them by now, that new stadium that Selig says you need to sit at the MLB CARD TABLE. Having a Rejuvenated Twins team would have to mean the White Sox would be FORCED to make their team even BETTER than what it really is. I tend to think Competition Makes EVERYONE better. Yeah, the Tigers sure stink right now, but the Royals have a good solid core of players. If theyre able to keep them is another story. Same with the Twins. Imagine if all teams involved are now able to KEEP players instead of giving them away? Prior wouldve elevated the Level of play in this division. Instead, he went to a team that doesnt Need Him to be "Successful". All of that foolishness from 2001, surely isnt all Priors fault by no means. He Took Advantage of a Commissioner-less League that is being run by the Upper Crust in baseball. The fact that Prior is an Arrogant, Selfish SOB is not beside the point either, but having a "commissioner" committing a clear Conflict-Of-Interest by informing the Twinks that they would be folded, certainly didnt help them in their quest to save 10 Million Dollars. Thats a lot of Loot. Im thinking of the best interests of baseball, and Prior being a Cub helped NOBODY but MLB and the CUbs

cheeses_h_rice
08-21-2003, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Having lived with the Moron kissing Shammy's butt for all these years, I can put up with him doing the same with Prior.

Prior is a stud and if the Twins would have gotten him instead of the Cubs, I doubt that they'd be a half a game behind the Sox right now. I'm glad we only have to worry about facing him, at most, twice rather than 5 or 6 times a year.

It should be interesting to see how they do the next few years and see if they are able to sign him to a long term contract or not...

I second all these thoughts, exactly.

The Flubs will want to re-sign Prior...the question is, will he want to stick around the Flubs? Serious question here. If they fail to make the playoffs this year, and the aura of 'negativity' that Dusty B. has talked about is in full bloom, what real incentive does he have to stick around Chicago?

davenicholson
08-21-2003, 02:42 PM
I have a question for the bright baseball minds around here. Since I have a character flaw which forces me to turn the page, channel or station whenever anything cubbie is on, I've not heard an interview with Prior. Is he truly as self-centered and arrogant as some portray him, or is it his uniform that makes him seem that way. I would sure like to see him pitching for the Sox some day , but I know more likely it will be in Yankee pinstripes or for the Tomahawk-choppers. Thanks.

Hangar18
08-21-2003, 02:47 PM
The Only saving grace in how Prior became a cub (under very suspicious circumstances) is that HE IS EVENTUALLY GOING TO COST THEM A MICROSOFT/SMALL KINGDOMS WORTH IN LOOT when hes ready for that new Contract. He is going to SOAK THAT TEAM/BLEED THEM to the bone. And the cubs will pay it.
Think about it. What are they going to say? NO? no way. They'll WANT to say no, but The Chicago Media wont have it.
THEY WILL HAVE TO PAY IT. their fan base, as well as the Media thats in love with him, will Make sure he gets the first 155 Million Contract for a Pitcher. And he'll be worth every penny. But in the process, will bleed the Cubs Dry From WITHIN. how
Awesome is that ?

rahulsekhar
08-21-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by davenicholson
I have a question for the bright baseball minds around here. Since I have a character flaw which forces me to turn the page, channel or station whenever anything cubbie is on, I've not heard an interview with Prior. Is he truly as self-centered and arrogant as some portray him, or is it his uniform that makes him seem that way. I would sure like to see him pitching for the Sox some day , but I know more likely it will be in Yankee pinstripes or for the Tomahawk-choppers. Thanks.


From what I've heard, he's actually a pretty good guy and a team player. As much as I hate that he's on the Cubs, I had to respect his reaction when booed at the ASG - he seemed to appreciate it!

That's my one hope - that continued Flub mediocrity makes him turn down potential bigger $$ to go somewhere where he can win. (And in my wet dream, that's a short move to the S Side!)

Of course, that'll be in at least 5 years since he's Cub property for a while and will probably sign an extension or 2 before seeing FA.

fhqwhgads
08-21-2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
I believe most Twinkie fans are nice people, if not a little too polite.

Hey, screw you!
:)

Here's hoping the mods sense of humor doesn't fail...

GO TWINS!

Hangar18
08-21-2003, 03:57 PM
Rahulsekar......In answer to your query, Prior has said a few things in the media ALREADY that have made people (and some of his teammates raise an eyebrow) He has confidence for sure, but the expectation that he get different Treatment because hes a cub from the media (the "negative" publicity flap) was one of those moments. Also....when he was on the DL, and the Media, being the Cub-Lovers they are, asked him on his condition, he answered in a Terse way, that he would no longer answer any more questions regarding that. Most reporters batted an eyebrow over that, though most in the Chicago Media gave him another Free Pass over the incident, and even some turned the situation around, putting a Positive spin on the matter, by saying he was merely showing his "Competitive Nature" (CubLover/Apologist Mike Kiley) In things Ive read/heard/saw, ALSO including his Actions back in 2001, when he thought he'd circumvent the whole Draft Process and Defiantly stated it would take $10,000,000 to sign him, regardless of teams stature, surely spoke of his true spirit and motive. Ive always believed that a minor leaguer should be glad and fortunate to have been put in the position they are in, to be able to play ML baseball, and EARN their way up the ladder like everyone else. Sure, hes not like everyone else, but does he have to be so Smug about it? And for the Record, at the All Star Game, he was given a RUDE AWAKENING, smiling like the Cheshire Cat, tipping his cap and being BOOED FEROCIOUSLY, sent him a message, he isnt as loved as he is on the north side.
HE was Visibly Uncomfortable afterwards, as was Kerry Wood moments later. Hes an ARROGANT SOB who thru his actions, helped take advantage of a Commissioner-less sport and fell to a team willing/able to cave in to his Exorbitant Bonus Demands.
Karma is a funny funny thing

voodoochile
08-21-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Actually, as much as Im GLAD hes not in our division, Im going to take the High Road here, and Look for the Betterment of Baseball, our division especially. I believe most Twinkie fans are nice people, if not a little too polite. Having Prior on that team would/couldve been worth at least 10 more victories for that team, and Surely a 1st Place holder at this moment. Had they been a little closer to first, Maybe they make a few moves, and actually HELP themselves stay better instead of outright releasing players like David Ortiz, whom they miss dearly, simply because they cant afford him? Prior wouldve gotten them by now, that new stadium that Selig says you need to sit at the MLB CARD TABLE. Having a Rejuvenated Twins team would have to mean the White Sox would be FORCED to make their team even BETTER than what it really is. I tend to think Competition Makes EVERYONE better. Yeah, the Tigers sure stink right now, but the Royals have a good solid core of players. If theyre able to keep them is another story. Same with the Twins. Imagine if all teams involved are now able to KEEP players instead of giving them away? Prior wouldve elevated the Level of play in this division. Instead, he went to a team that doesnt Need Him to be "Successful". All of that foolishness from 2001, surely isnt all Priors fault by no means. He Took Advantage of a Commissioner-less League that is being run by the Upper Crust in baseball. The fact that Prior is an Arrogant, Selfish SOB is not beside the point either, but having a "commissioner" committing a clear Conflict-Of-Interest by informing the Twinks that they would be folded, certainly didnt help them in their quest to save 10 Million Dollars. Thats a lot of Loot. Im thinking of the best interests of baseball, and Prior being a Cub helped NOBODY but MLB and the CUbs

You expect too much from JR. Being clearly the second best team in the ALC for most of the last half of the 90's didn't cause JR to go nuts trying to make the team better...

Prior is better as a flub, IMO. He hurts the team a lot less as a inter-city rival than he does as an member of the number one rival in the Sox division...

voodoochile
08-21-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by fhqwhgads
Hey, screw you!
:)

Here's hoping the mods sense of humor doesn't fail...

I'll leave it up to Hangar... :D:

Hangar18
08-21-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by fhqwhgads
Hey, screw you!
:)

Here's hoping the mods sense of humor doesn't fail...

GO TWINS!

You know....I just NOW got the meaning of the word "mods".
I for some reason thought Fgjiieorwioseasddsasesds was
talking about those 60's beat-nik looking people from England ....... Heh Heh

fhqwhgads
08-21-2003, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
I for some reason thought Fgjiieorwioseasddsasesds...

Fgjiieorwioseasddsasesds, huh? Makes me sound kinda Swedish.

http://www.dailyprobe.com/arcs/012102/chef.jpg

Bork, Bork, Bork!

Daver
08-21-2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by fhqwhgads
Fgjiieorwioseasddsasesds, huh? Makes me sound kinda Swedish.

http://www.dailyprobe.com/arcs/012102/chef.jpg

Bork, Bork, Bork!

Hey,that's my second favorite Muppet!

voodoochile
08-21-2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by daver
Hey,that's my second favorite Muppet!

Let me guess, Animal is #1... What a drummer...

Daver
08-21-2003, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Let me guess, Animal is #1... What a drummer...


No,not Animal.

Beeker is my favorite Muppett

Twins8791
08-22-2003, 04:09 AM
Originally posted by fhqwhgads
Hey, screw you!

Of course, he means this in the nicest possible way...

RichH55
08-22-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Twins8791
Of course, he means this in the nicest possible way...

And it sounds so cute with that North Woods accent

RichH55
08-22-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Rahulsekar......In answer to your query, Prior has said a few things in the media ALREADY that have made people (and some of his teammates raise an eyebrow) He has confidence for sure, but the expectation that he get different Treatment because hes a cub from the media (the "negative" publicity flap) was one of those moments. Also....when he was on the DL, and the Media, being the Cub-Lovers they are, asked him on his condition, he answered in a Terse way, that he would no longer answer any more questions regarding that. Most reporters batted an eyebrow over that, though most in the Chicago Media gave him another Free Pass over the incident, and even some turned the situation around, putting a Positive spin on the matter, by saying he was merely showing his "Competitive Nature" (CubLover/Apologist Mike Kiley) In things Ive read/heard/saw, ALSO including his Actions back in 2001, when he thought he'd circumvent the whole Draft Process and Defiantly stated it would take $10,000,000 to sign him, regardless of teams stature, surely spoke of his true spirit and motive. Ive always believed that a minor leaguer should be glad and fortunate to have been put in the position they are in, to be able to play ML baseball, and EARN their way up the ladder like everyone else. Sure, hes not like everyone else, but does he have to be so Smug about it? And for the Record, at the All Star Game, he was given a RUDE AWAKENING, smiling like the Cheshire Cat, tipping his cap and being BOOED FEROCIOUSLY, sent him a message, he isnt as loved as he is on the north side.
HE was Visibly Uncomfortable afterwards, as was Kerry Wood moments later. Hes an ARROGANT SOB who thru his actions, helped take advantage of a Commissioner-less sport and fell to a team willing/able to cave in to his Exorbitant Bonus Demands.
Karma is a funny funny thing


How long do the Cubs essentially control his destiny for? 7 year total or something along those lines? And he wasn't under contract when he made those demands right? So when he asked for 10 million that was the one time for a long while that he would have leverage, and he had already gone to college to prove himself further even though he was highly regarded coming out of high school, right? So what is so wrong about the guy wanted to get paid? Are young pitchers so kind of sure bet that I'm not aware of? For every Mark Prior is there not 30 Brien Taylors(sic)?

I'm not particularly fond of having to defend Prior, and you could very well be right about the arrogance and the media passes(would certainly fit the profile for this town), but to begrudge a guy for trying to "get his" seems a bit bitter and uncalled for. The contract didn't ask for him to be the Cubs opening day starter, so he still had to earn his way onto the team, but he reconized the one chance he had at leverage and used it accordingly, seems like the normal reaction to me.

Its one thing when a veteran takes a paycut for any number of reasons: he likes where he is, wants the team to win, etc...but chances are for the veteran he is still making alot of money either way and more importantly: Has already made quite a bit....to expect a rookie to do that when they don't have the same sort of financial cushion is foolhardy. I don't agree when people like Duce Staley hold out and they are under contract, but on the same note if a guy negitionates a no-trade clause then people can't get upset when he chooses to exercise that right. And to not expect a guy in Prior's situation to act in his own best interests is crazy and Polly-Annaish(sic)

OurBitchinMinny
08-22-2003, 01:23 PM
Most twins fans wish they had prior, but many are morons who think mauer might be Jesus second coming, just because he is a st paul kid. Many media types will not rip on the twins because mauer is their hometown boy. Prior is a hell of a pitcher and Im glad he is not on the twins, but I wish he wasnt on the cubs either. Mauer by the way will be a solid MLB player, but he wasnt the better pick over prior. The twins would have picked prior I think if they were so cheap. But minnesota teams are famous for reaching in drafts for local products....ie the twolves picking rick rickert who is the biggest stiff Ive ever seen. The guy is so weak and couldnt rebound in the big 10.

chosk8
08-22-2003, 02:43 PM
It is tiring hearing the Cubs fans preach about having Prior. Yes, you cannot deny he is great pitcher, but the fact is, he was handed to you by the Twins. Plus, like I always retort: When you suck year in and year out and pick in the top 5 of the draft every year, you're bound to pick a good one.

As much as I hate the Cubs, I would rather have him pitching for them than a division rival.

Hangar18
08-22-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
How long do the Cubs essentially control his destiny for? 7 year total or something along those lines? And he wasn't under contract when he made those demands right?

I'm not particularly fond of having to defend Prior, and you could very well be right about the arrogance and the media passes(would certainly fit the profile for this town), but to begrudge a guy for trying to "get his" seems a bit bitter and uncalled for. The contract didn't ask for him to be the Cubs opening day starter, so he still had to earn his way onto the team, but he reconized the one chance he had at leverage and used it accordingly, seems like the normal reaction to me.

And to not expect a guy in Prior's situation to act in his own best interests is crazy and Polly-Annaish(sic)

Prior signed a Major League contract, not a minor league contract. the cubs sidestepped the 10,000,000 figure by basically giving him the Loot in exchange for a 3yr deal for the green. If you and I are drafted, were signed to a MINOR LG contract, subject to the payscale that you bring up. Prior felt he was above all of this.... BUT if im not mistaken, he is Free after 3 yrs .......

Hangar18
08-22-2003, 03:06 PM
alas, if someone can get the exact lowdown on his contract, that would be Great

joliva23
08-22-2003, 03:29 PM
According to the following website from another thread he signed a contract for 5 yr/$10.5 million ($4 million signing bonus) in 2001:

http://www.bluemanc.demon.co.uk/baseball/mlbcontracts.htm

He is with the flubs through 2006 unless "if eligible, he can void deal after 2004 and opt for salary arbitration."

voodoochile
08-22-2003, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by joliva23
According to the following website from another thread he signed a contract for 5 yr/$10.5 million ($4 million signing bonus) in 2001:

http://www.bluemanc.demon.co.uk/baseball/mlbcontracts.htm

He is with the flubs through 2006 unless "if eligible, he can void deal after 2004 and opt for salary arbitration."

Welcome Aboard! :D: (I seem to be falling into a pattern... Thanks again, trollboy whoever you are...)

Hangar18
08-22-2003, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by joliva23
According to the following website from another thread he signed a contract for 5 yr/$10.5 million ($4 million signing bonus) in 2001:

http://www.bluemanc.demon.co.uk/baseball/mlbcontracts.htm

He is with the flubs through 2006 unless "if eligible, he can void deal after 2004 and opt for salary arbitration."

Excellent. That definitely clears a lot of things up. That means after 2004, he will Hit The LOTTERY and really get paid. Had he been a Twin, that would be the year he would be "traded" to a contending team, for some baseballs and bats. In a nutshell, hes not really a "minor leaguer" up with the bigteam.

jabrch
08-22-2003, 05:12 PM
If you would rather have him on the Twins, you probably haven't seen him pitch enough. This guy is nasty. He is a dominant pitcher in the same mold as Mussina. Big strong kid who throws all from his legs. He will dominate the majors for 15+ years. If he was a Twin, we'd have to see him that much more. At least this way we only get him 1 or 2 times per year.

However, in 2006, if he ever hits the FA market, wouldn't it be nice to.... ahhhh forget it....

white sox bill
08-22-2003, 06:39 PM
Better a Flub or Twinkie? How 'bout better a South Sider! This guys the real deal as much as I hate to admit it. He's all the hype and then some.
Bill

doublem23
08-22-2003, 06:42 PM
He'll be a Yankee in a couple years anyway, so who cares?

:)

Lip Man 1
08-22-2003, 06:44 PM
I'd prefer him with the Brewers! LOL

and don't bet on the Yankees ever getting him. The Tribune Company knows a marketing draw, certainly better then the Sox.

Lip

doublem23
08-22-2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I'd prefer him with the Brewers! LOL

and don't bet on the Yankees ever getting him. The Tribune Company knows a marketing draw, certainly better then the Sox.

Lip

Ha ha ha ha... The Yankees will be all over him. 110%. I'm sure the Cubune knows what they got but I guarantee that they won't pony up the money and they won't be able to show off all those championships to the kid.

:hawk
He gone!

Hangar18
08-23-2003, 08:49 AM
Mark my words....His Arrogance, The Messiah, will be the first pitcher to get a.........(.is everyone ready for this) a
175 Million Dollar Contract. The very fact that the Yankees already Covet him (they originally drafted him, and as a HS player, was arrogant enough to ask for Millions) they will NOT BE OUTDONE. for this fact, the stakes will run up, because the CHICAGO MEDIA will NOT LET HIM GET AWAY. the cubs will be the victims of the Media Frenzy and be forced to Pay him whatever he wants

RichH55
08-23-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I'd prefer him with the Brewers! LOL

and don't bet on the Yankees ever getting him. The Tribune Company knows a marketing draw, certainly better then the Sox.

Lip


Certainly they did with Maddux when the Sox let him go....errr wait...that was the Cubs. So rather than having skill in that area, they would mainly not be trying to make the same mistake twice(3 times if you count Moyer, but thats pushing it). Doesn't sound like skill to me.

And Lip..what's up with you giving the Cubs praise for the Womack move, under the theory that the more moves a team makes the more press they get....but I don't hear serious kudos for the Sullivan aquistion, which made more sense and will have more impact of the stretch drive?