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kempsted
08-21-2003, 09:49 AM
A friend of mine said he was listening to either the Score or Espn radio and the hosts were talking about how although Maggs has a great arm he doen't have good range and so is an average fielder.

This struck me as false from having watched the game so I went stat hunting to check. Although putouts doesn't directly show range it is at least a good first estimate. MLB groups all outfielders together but Ordonez was 10th in AL and 15th overall. Everyone of the 14 ahead of Maggs were either CF or LF (most CF). So Ordonez is #1 of all RF in PO. That doesn't seem to support the Ordonez has no range theory. Also for what it is worth Ordonez is 10 among outfielders in Defensive win shares and all of the people above him are CF and LF. So he leads all RF in Defensive win shares.

On a side note Shammy Sosa is 79 overall for outfielders on putouts. Not good considering there are only 90 starting outfielder positions in MLB.

dickallen15
08-21-2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by kempsted
A friend of mine said he was listening to either the Score or Espn radio and the hosts were talking about how although Maggs has a great arm he doen't have good range and so is an average fielder.

This struck me as false from having watched the game so I went stat hunting to check. Although putouts doesn't directly show range it is at least a good first estimate. MLB groups all outfielders together but Ordonez was 10th in AL and 15th overall. Everyone of the 14 ahead of Maggs were either CF or LF (most CF). So Ordonez is #1 of all RF in PO. That doesn't seem to support the Ordonez has no range theory. Also for what it is worth Ordonez is 10 among outfielders in Defensive win shares and all of the people above him are CF and LF. So he leads all RF in Defensive win shares.

On a side note Shammy Sosa is 79 overall for outfielders on putouts. Not good considering there are only 90 starting outfielder positions in MLB.



Magglio gets a lot more putouts because Everett can't get to balls that are routine to normal centerfielders.

TDog
08-21-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by dickallen15
Magglio gets a lot more putouts because Everett can't get to balls that are routine to normal centerfielders.

Of course, Everett hasn't been playing center for the Sox very long. In watching Ordonez, I have never found his range to be lacking.

Such comments reminds me of something I heard when I was a kid, the year before the American League adopted it's three-year DH experiment. I was in Dallas listening to the Rangers' announcers describe Wilbur Wood as a "good-hitting pitcher" because he had a couple of hits on the season. Anyone who ever watched Wilbur Wood hit wouldn't have said that.

RKMeibalane
08-21-2003, 11:18 AM
Don't pay attention to what people say about Maggs' defense. The other night, Rick Sutcliffe said that Maggs didn't have a strong arm, but everyone knows that's not true.

I've given up on the media when it comes to how players are evaluated. Most of them don't know what they're talking about. I just watch the games and make my own judgements.

jabrch
08-21-2003, 11:24 AM
I'd call him an above average defensive OF. He clearly isn't in the cateogry of the top 10 RFs, but he is far better defensively than the puffy, wifebeating, strikout gathering, no drivers liscensed, charity event missing, bat corking, foundation robbing, slow, mediahound on the north side of town.

Randar68
08-21-2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Don't pay attention to what people say about Maggs' defense. The other night, Rick Sutcliffe said that Maggs didn't have a strong arm, but everyone knows that's not true.

I've given up on the media when it comes to how players are evaluated. Most of them don't know what they're talking about. I just watch the games and make my own judgements.

Maggs has a pretty accurate arm, but I wouldn't call it above average for right-fielders in terms of strength. He can't put the ball on a line like Ichiro, Mondesi, etc.

jabrch
08-21-2003, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Maggs has a pretty accurate arm, but I wouldn't call it above average for right-fielders in terms of strength. He can't put the ball on a line like Ichiro, Mondesi, etc.

That's not exactly the benchmark for "above average" Those are two of the best guns in RF in the majors.

Here's the list of RFs who have played enough games this year to qualify according to Yahoo

Ichiro
Sheff
Ordonez
Nixon
Huff
Abreu
Hidalgo
Gibbons
Sosa
Floyd
Walker
Cattalanotto
Millar
Green
Encarnacion
Sanders
Salmon
Tucker
Mondesi
Klesko
Cruz
Long
Higginson


Past Ichiro, Mondesi and Larry Walker, nobody there has an arm significantly better than Maggs.

Randar68
08-21-2003, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
That's not exactly the benchmark for "above average" Those are two of the best guns in RF in the majors.

Here's the list of RFs who have played enough games this year to qualify according to Yahoo

Ichiro
Sheff
Ordonez
Nixon
Huff
Abreu
Hidalgo
Gibbons
Sosa
Floyd
Walker
Cattalanotto
Millar
Green
Encarnacion
Sanders
Salmon
Tucker
Mondesi
Klesko
Cruz
Long
Higginson


Past Ichiro, Mondesi and Larry Walker, nobody there has an arm significantly better than Maggs.

As much as I hate the guy, Higginson has a better arm than Ordonez. Green is certainly better and Sosa has a stronger, yet much less accurate arm. Hidalgo has a cannon as well. Maggs never is even close at getting a guy going 1st to third. Frankly, Maggs isn't in the top 3 in the Sox' system in terms of OF arms. Anderson, Sweeney, Borchard all have significantly better arms.

I would put Maggs somewhere in the middle there. Good accuracy but definitely a little lacking in arm strength.