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jeremyb1
08-20-2003, 12:50 AM
I still don't understand why we made that deal. I lobbied for Glover to pitch the 7th inning in games this season to bridge the gap to Marte/Gordon so that he'd be our 4th guy out of the pen. With a little regular work, he has a 2.38 ERA for Anaheim 11 innings. Wunsch has pitched for us maybe once in the last week so we badly needed another lefty specialist why?

Looking back on it I definately agree Manuel was an idiot not to pitch Glover more but in no way does that absolve Kenny of blame for Glover's handling. Clearly, when a GM makes several moves to acquire relievers in the offseason, he must explain to the manager the role he envisions each reliever having. Clearly, Glover was not suited to be a long reliever considering how much he struggled as a starter. Finally, if Kenny really felt Glover's skills were being wasted to such a great extent that he felt he needed to trade him, I don't think he would've been shy about asking Manuel to pitch Glover more often. Glover had in fact pitched (well) several times the week before he was traded.

gosox41
08-20-2003, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I still don't understand why we made that deal. I lobbied for Glover to pitch the 7th inning in games this season to bridge the gap to Marte/Gordon so that he'd be our 4th guy out of the pen. With a little regular work, he has a 2.38 ERA for Anaheim 11 innings. Wunsch has pitched for us maybe once in the last week so we badly needed another lefty specialist why?

Looking back on it I definately agree Manuel was an idiot not to pitch Glover more but in no way does that absolve Kenny of blame for Glover's handling. Clearly, when a GM makes several moves to acquire relievers in the offseason, he must explain to the manager the role he envisions each reliever having. Clearly, Glover was not suited to be a long reliever considering how much he struggled as a starter. Finally, if Kenny really felt Glover's skills were being wasted to such a great extent that he felt he needed to trade him, I don't think he would've been shy about asking Manuel to pitch Glover more often. Glover had in fact pitched (well) several times the week before he was traded.

I think Glover is an above average reliever. It was dumb to trade him for Schoneweis, especiallyconsidering that righties are hitting .325 off him. Glover can do a better job of getting righties out.

Seems to me that JM gets these ideas in his head about a player and if he doesn't like you he refuses to use you. Glover and Cameron come to mind of talents that haven't been utilized properly.

Of course, I think JM is essentially doing the same thing with Frank. He's not putting him in the best position to succeed and from his quotes in the paper obviously doesn't like Frank.

Bob

34 Inch Stick
08-20-2003, 08:58 AM
A player has to bitch in the paper and then Manuel starts using him.

I think Glover is an excellent 3 inning reliever and has proven that when given the opportunity to pitch regularly.

Dadawg_77
08-20-2003, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
A player has to bitch in the paper and then Manuel starts using him.

I think Glover is an excellent 3 inning reliever and has proven that when given the opportunity to pitch regularly.

Or they release you.

Brian26
08-20-2003, 09:09 AM
Never underestimate the importance of playoff experience for anyone, especially bullpen pitchers. Glover's the prototypical guy that would get lit up like a xmas tree if the Sox made the playoffs. Schow has some nice experience from surviving three rounds of playoffs last year with the halos. The deal is fine, and it will help us in the longrun this season. We have bigger crap to complain about than this.

Dadawg_77
08-20-2003, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Never underestimate the importance of playoff experience for anyone, especially bullpen pitchers. Glover's the prototypical guy that would get lit up like a xmas tree if the Sox made the playoffs. Schow has some nice experience from surviving three rounds of playoffs last year with the halos. The deal is fine, and it will help us in the longrun this season. We have bigger crap to complain about than this.

Not saying Glover's stuff is close to his, but K-Rod's playoff experience really did help him last year.

jabrch
08-20-2003, 10:05 AM
will be evaluated next year. All indications are they will build his arm strength up during the off season and he will be our 5th starter next year. If he can be a solid 5th starter, I won't miss Glover. I do have my doubts, but this was a risk I am willing to live with....

JRIG
08-20-2003, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Never underestimate the importance of playoff experience for anyone, especially bullpen pitchers. Glover's the prototypical guy that would get lit up like a xmas tree if the Sox made the playoffs. Schow has some nice experience from surviving three rounds of playoffs last year with the halos. The deal is fine, and it will help us in the longrun this season. We have bigger crap to complain about than this.

Last year Schoeneweis pitched a grand total of 3 innings in the playoffs giving up a run on 3 hits.

Do you really believe that makes him a better pitcher in the playoffs? And if you think his performance last year was great, how was he able to pitch that well without previous playoff experience? For that matter, how did the Angels win any games last year in the playoffs running out starters and relievers with no playoff experience?

Putting stock in things like "playoff experience" is how you end up trading for guys like Tony Womack.

Lip Man 1
08-20-2003, 10:42 AM
Kenny Williams hinted himself at why this deal was made when he explained that Scott would be given a chance to crack the rotation next season.

I infer from that the Sox will not be making any bids to retain Bartolo Colon so Scott will be used to fill his slot.

The projected rotation for 2004:

Loazia
Buehrle
Schoenweis
Garland
Wright

To me that is a very iffy rotation.

Now if the Sox keep Colon or pick up another good pitcher, this could be a great deal. A solid starter for the back end of the rotation (bumping out Wright) for a middle relief guy.

Lip

jeremyb1
08-20-2003, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
will be evaluated next year. All indications are they will build his arm strength up during the off season and he will be our 5th starter next year. If he can be a solid 5th starter, I won't miss Glover. I do have my doubts, but this was a risk I am willing to live with....

I don't think there's any reason to believe Shoenweis can be at all effective as a starter. Cleary, he can't retire right handed hitting and he's never had a season where he had an era under 5 as a starter. Pitchers aren't ussually better as starters than as relievers. As a starter with a 5+ era, Shoenweis is worthless in my opinion and he certainly isn't worth a solid reliever with potential to be even better. Starters with 5 eras are a dime a dozen. I guarantee you we'll be able to sign someone as good or better than Shoenweis for the minimum in the spring. Look at what we did with Loaiza this past offseason.

Brian26
08-20-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Putting stock in things like "playoff experience" is how you end up trading for guys like Tony Womack.

If I had to choose between two guys with similar numbers, except one guy has been on the field during a 7-game world series and won't be scared crapless if it happens again, I'll take the experienced guy.

pudge
08-20-2003, 02:04 PM
I don't think the real complaint by jeremy was that we aquired Schoendump, but rather that we didn't give Glover a chance. And frankly, I think Glover could be a more effective starter than Schoendump.

adsit
08-20-2003, 04:48 PM
Let's not forget that Schoeneweis is arbitration-eligible after this year. We're going to have to pay him some money for the privilege of "trying" to add to his repertoire and "hoping" to build him into an effective starting role. I hope after this year he's going to become a PTBN in a deal for something we really need.

Lip Man 1
08-20-2003, 11:25 PM
Gary Glover was awful as a starter. Check out his stats from 2002. He was so bad that the media specifically asked Manager Gandhi why he was still in the rotation and Gandhi replied he didn't have any other options.

Lip

gosox41
08-20-2003, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Never underestimate the importance of playoff experience for anyone, especially bullpen pitchers. Glover's the prototypical guy that would get lit up like a xmas tree if the Sox made the playoffs. Schow has some nice experience from surviving three rounds of playoffs last year with the halos. The deal is fine, and it will help us in the longrun this season. We have bigger crap to complain about than this.

I'm more concerned about getting to the playoffs. Maybe Schoneweis could bring some of that playoff experience and use it during the regular season.

Bob