PDA

View Full Version : *Official* Game Thread - Sox vs. Angels - August 18, 2003


RKMeibalane
08-18-2003, 06:20 PM
3B- Graffanino
2B- Alomar
DH- Thomas
RF- Ordonez
LF- Lee
CF- Everett
1B- Konerko
SS- Valentin
C- Alomar Jr.

:jerry

*TINKER* *TINKER* *TINKER*

Amazing! Crede has been swinging the bat well, so Jerry "The Tinkerer" decides to bench him for a game the Sox must win. This is the same **** he pulled with Everett last week. Will it ever end?

balboner
08-18-2003, 06:44 PM
This is the dumbest line-up I've ever seen. Between Robbie Alomar, Everett, and Valentin, you have 3 guys that can't hit righty very good at all. Instead of having Rowand play CF and Graffy at 2b or ss, Manuel has Tony G. replace our hottest hitter in Crede! What the hell is Manuel doing? I can't wait for him to be fired after this year, he's brutal.

MetalliSox
08-18-2003, 06:45 PM
Amazing! Crede has been swinging the bat well, so Jerry "The Tinkerer" decides to bench him for a game the Sox must win. This is the same **** he pulled with Everett last week. Will it ever end? [/B]

Yeah, Valentin gets another chance at hitting righty. Hope those fans brough a jacket because there will be a big breeze after Jose swings.
Crede has his average up and should be in against the lefty, easily!!!!!

And again...FRANK WANTS TO PLAY 1st!!!!!! WHY WON'T MANUEL PUT HIM THERE! IT'S OBVIOUS!!!!!!

:jerry
"Frank at 1st? Why didn't I think of that?"

HaroldFan
08-18-2003, 06:59 PM
Crede has a 10 game hitting streak. Courtesy of ESPN he's 15 for 35 (.429) in those 10 games plus 2 walks and only 1 strikeout. He's also hitting .305 against lefties for the season.
But hey, we can't expect a 25 year old ballplayer to play too many games in a row.

MetalliSox
08-18-2003, 07:17 PM
:hawk
"Joe's a little banged up right now and is getting a well deserved night off."

FJA
08-18-2003, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
3B- Graffanino
2B- Alomar
DH- Thomas
RF- Ordonez
LF- Lee
CF- Everett
1B- Konerko
SS- Valentin
C- Alomar Jr.



The only thing I like about this lineup is that Robbie isn't leading off ... he's been brutal lately and isn't so good from the right side of the plate.

That being said, I think Graffanino needs to play and lead off ... BUT WHY ISN'T HE PLAYING FOR JOSE, WHO IS EVEN WORSE AGAINST LEFTIES?!?

Then our hottest hitter--Joe Crede--could still play third.

I don't think the Everett thing is as big a deal, because I do want some normalcy in there. (After all--we've been begging for less tinkering all season.)

Of course, Frank should be playing first, but what the hell do I and everyone else who can read numbers know?

MisterB
08-18-2003, 07:25 PM
According to the ESPN broadcast, Crede is out with a sore foot.

SoxEd
08-18-2003, 07:29 PM
I think I've worked out why JM has rested Joe Crede:

The guys in slots 3 thru 5 haven't been hitting well lately, right?
So JM needs to do something to shake em up, right?

Clearly, someone needs to be benched, as an example, right?

No, there's clearly no point in benching a guy you're trying to wake up a bit, is there?
I mean, if he wakes up on the bench, then he ain't hitting for ya.
So clearly you just gotta bench a guy who's playing well, as an exmple to the others, no?

Elementary psychology (on Planet Manuel).

Have I got it, or what?

balboner
08-18-2003, 07:44 PM
The White Sox continue to let the other team's best player beat us day in and day out. Also, you have to love how Sandy Alomar sets up on the outside corner for the number 9 hitter on a 3-2 count. Just throw the ball down the middle!

FJA
08-18-2003, 07:48 PM
Pending ...

:corpseball

balboner
08-18-2003, 07:49 PM
I am afraid to ask how much flatter this team can play? It sounds like there are 100 people at the game. Jerry's pathetic line-up has no hits threw 3 innings. Again, why does this piece of s*** have a job?

MetalliSox
08-18-2003, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by balboner
I am afraid to ask how much flatter this team can play? It sounds like there are 100 people at the game. Jerry's pathetic line-up has no hits threw 3 innings. Again, why does this piece of s*** have a job?

There are some things JM can and should be blamed for, The Sox not having any hits through 3 innings is not one of them.

balboner
08-18-2003, 07:53 PM
I think JM is very much responsible for this awful hitting. He has 3 switch hitters in the line-up that are miserable from the right side, and is not playing stronger hitting alternatives in Rowand and Crede (if he's not injured).

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:02 PM
:corpseball

Normally I don't like to call it until after the fifth, but good lord ... I'm calling in now with the hope they prove me wrong.

SoxEd
08-18-2003, 08:04 PM
Hitless through 4?

This is starting to seriously pain me now. :(:

RKMeibalane
08-18-2003, 08:05 PM
This is bad. Just bad.

MetalliSox
08-18-2003, 08:05 PM
Anyone notice that the championship caliber offense of the Texas Rangers is being kept quiet by Cy Young candidate Bonderman in Detroit?

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:05 PM
I really, really wish Hawk would stop advertising postseason seats.

JJAustin69
08-18-2003, 08:06 PM
Yeah, they let Buehrle get beat by Washburn 2-1 in Anaheim. Have some guts and bail him out!

RKMeibalane
08-18-2003, 08:09 PM
"Fire Jerry" - Set to the tune of "Frere Jaqua" (SP?)

Fire Jerry! Fire Jerry!
Fire him now! Fire him now!

Move Frank back to first base.
Move Frank back to fist base.

Time's running out.
Time's running out.

SouthBendSox
08-18-2003, 08:10 PM
The Westis the best division in baseball

go corpses!!!

SouthBendSox
08-18-2003, 08:10 PM
can we hire dave Bliss as the new manager, at leasthe cares


fire this clown!!!

adsit
08-18-2003, 08:16 PM
Way to break up the el perfecto off the leg, Carl.... :smile:

First thing I've had to cheer about tonight, I'll take it.

duke of dorwood
08-18-2003, 08:16 PM
:corpseball

It's now an official corpseball game

A.T. Money
08-18-2003, 08:17 PM
Corpseball at it's finest. Welcome to 3rd place boys. Idle Minnesota will pass us in the standings tonight.

balboner
08-18-2003, 08:18 PM
Konerko is resorting back to early April and May form lately.

SoxEd
08-18-2003, 08:19 PM
If it carries on like this, I'll be back on the :prozac.

RKMeibalane
08-18-2003, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by balboner
Konerko is resorting back to early April and May form lately.

Yes, he is. Does Manuel need anymore proof that Frank should be at 1B? He said he wouldn't put him there unless it was "some sort of emergency." Well, I'd say being no-hit qualifies as one.

:firejerry

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:22 PM
Alright, while this is corpseball, Buehrle is pitching well enough where this could turn into the kind of game we had against Detroit where we got no-hit for 7 before pulling our heads out of our asses against Cy Cornejo. We all know where the team went from there.

Otherwise, we've again been embarrassed on ESPN.

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Yes, he is. Does Manuel need anymore proof that Frank should be at 1B? He said he wouldn't put him there unless it was "some sort of emergency." Well, I'd say being no-hit qualifies as one.

:firejerry

Dropping to third place when the third place team isn't playing is also an emergency.

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:25 PM
Thanks for trying, Jose.

balboner
08-18-2003, 08:25 PM
Oh my god, that was about the weakest hit attempt you'll ever see by Valentin. No wait, Sandy just did the same thing basically. Screw you Jerry!

JJAustin69
08-18-2003, 08:26 PM
5 pitch inning. Way to go corpses.

duke of dorwood
08-18-2003, 08:26 PM
Your Fighting White Sox

A.T. Money
08-18-2003, 08:27 PM
LOL, this is so sad. Someone at work asked me if I wanted to go to this game. I'm glad I didn't pay to see this CRAP!

:corpseball

duke of dorwood
08-18-2003, 08:27 PM
Not even an attempt to bunt for a hit-absolutely gutless

RKMeibalane
08-18-2003, 08:28 PM
A part of me hopes that this team is no-hit. That way, maybe Manuel will wise-up and stop putting so automatic outs in the lineup.

No, wait! That's asking too much of JM. He'll probably just blame the whole thing on Frank Thomas. Of course, Frank has been terrible lately.

A.T. Money
08-18-2003, 08:29 PM
Want to know what is creepy? I went on vacation on August 6th, returned on the 13th, and the Sox haven't won since the 12th, my last day on vacation. I have yet to see the Sox win a game.

RKMeibalane
08-18-2003, 08:29 PM
:firejerry

SouthBendSox
08-18-2003, 08:30 PM
still in this game

they will win

RKMeibalane
08-18-2003, 08:30 PM
Can someone make a tag related to players swinging for the fences? I think that should be added to the dictionary.

duke of dorwood
08-18-2003, 08:30 PM
:jerry

Crede wouldnt have got that

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:30 PM
Uh, is it just me, or was Tony Graffanino completely unprepared for that ball.

soxwon
08-18-2003, 08:31 PM
And to add insult to injury- cant it get any worse guys.
jarrod wasburn has a no hiitter going into the 7th inning against us.
we cant even score one lousy run- let alone a stinkin hit.
come on fellas.
repeat a NO HITTER VS THE SOX IN THE 7th

balboner
08-18-2003, 08:31 PM
Tony G. is not a 3b! He's a ok 2b, bad SS, and very poor 3b.

adsit
08-18-2003, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by FJA
Alright, while this is corpseball, Buehrle is pitching well enough where this could turn into the kind of game we had against Detroit where we got no-hit for 7 before pulling our heads out of our asses against Cy Cornejo. We all know where the team went from there.

Otherwise, we've again been embarrassed on ESPN.

Graffy broke that one up, right? Has anyone blanked us since Saberhagen? That was a loooong time ago.

Real nice on national television.

C'mon, dammit :angry:

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
A part of me hopes that this team is no-hit. That way, maybe Manuel will wise-up and stop putting so automatic outs in the lineup.

No, wait! That's asking too much of JM. He'll probably just blame the whole thing on Frank Thomas. Of course, Frank has been terrible lately.

I do not--repeat, do not--want to see what Jerry Manuel will do to the lineup the day after this team gets no hit. Willie Harris will be batting cleanup "because he's fresh and no one else got a hit yesterday."

:jerry

"Since Buehrle doesn't pitch for another four days, I think I'll shake things up and surprise the opposing team by batting him lead-off."

balboner
08-18-2003, 08:34 PM
It's quite disturbing how severely out-managed the Sox get every game. It's like we're playing 9 on 12 every game. We've let one of the worst players in baseball, A. Amezaga, beat us this game.

RKMeibalane
08-18-2003, 08:34 PM
This game is another nail in the coffin of Jerry Manuel's managerial career. Once he gets fired by the White Sox, I doubt if he'll ever manage in the big leagues again. He's terrible.

duke of dorwood
08-18-2003, 08:34 PM
Poor Burly Man

:hurt

Come to LA with me

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by adsit
Graffy broke that one up, right? Has anyone blanked us since Saberhagen? That was a loooong time ago.

Real nice on national television.

C'mon, dammit :angry:

It was Graffanino, who at this rate won't be coming up again until the 9th.

Nick@Nite
08-18-2003, 08:36 PM
Nice bunt by #5 from the Angels... our guys can't bunt when the pitch comes right down broadway.

Mark deserves better.

:burly
"Can I have an at-bat?"

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:37 PM
I think Darrin Jackson might just have to be the PTC for putting that hex on Washburn.

adsit
08-18-2003, 08:37 PM
Allright Robbie! A base hit! Way to go!!! :bandance:

(someone please put a bullet in my brain)

Frank, you know what to do.

duke of dorwood
08-18-2003, 08:38 PM
You could see it on Robbie's face-he was gonna get on

adsit
08-18-2003, 08:38 PM
Did that really just happen???

RKMeibalane
08-18-2003, 08:38 PM
FRANK THOMAS!

SoxEd
08-18-2003, 08:38 PM
At last - they may have woken up!

:gulp:

MisterB
08-18-2003, 08:39 PM
No-Hitter? Gone.
Shutout? Gone.

Thank you, Frankie!

duke of dorwood
08-18-2003, 08:39 PM
:jerry

see, I motivated him

inta
08-18-2003, 08:39 PM
i'm nowhere near a tv, just curious, what's the attendance like for this holocaust?

Dadawg_77
08-18-2003, 08:40 PM
:hurt
Hey Skip, you know what you and me have in common, we both won't be here next year.

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by inta
i'm nowhere near a tv, just curious, what's the attendance like for this holocaust?

Pretty good considering the horrible road trip.

Nick@Nite
08-18-2003, 08:40 PM
:hurt
"Hey Jerry, I'm swingin' for the fences"

:jerry
"U da man, Frank"

Angels 2 - Sox 2 Btm 7

Nick@Nite
08-18-2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by inta
i'm nowhere near a tv, just curious, what's the attendance like for this holocaust?

They said 32K tonight at the Cell.

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:43 PM
I don't want to be negative, but Carlos Lee's at bat was a microcosm of the Sox's problem.

Frank hits a two-run homer.
Maggs gets on base.
Carlos flies out trying to hit a two-run homer just like Frank.

NOT EVERYONE NEEDS TO HIT A HOME RUN. ADVANCE THE RUNNER, CARLOS, ADVANCE THE RUNNER.

duke of dorwood
08-18-2003, 08:43 PM
Frank's late inning production continues to improve

SoxEd
08-18-2003, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by FJA
I don't want to be negative, but Carlos Lee's at bat was a microcosm of the Sox's problem.

Frank hits a two-run homer.
Maggs gets on base.
Carlos flies out trying to hit a two-run homer just like Frank.

NOT EVERYONE NEEDS TO HIT A HOME RUN. ADVANCE THE RUNNER, CARLOS, ADVANCE THE RUNNER.

:jerry

See Carlos, Frank has now shown you The Way...

Daver
08-18-2003, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by adsit


(someone please put a bullet in my brain)



Do you have a prefference to caliber,and whether it comes from a pistol,rifle,or carbine?

I can probably oblige you in any of these aspects.


:)

SoxEd
08-18-2003, 08:48 PM
Who do we want to see pitch the top of the 8th?

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:49 PM
OK, now comes the part when the playoff-calibur team scores a run or two and brings in the stud closer for the 9th ...

This will be interesting, and it might go a long way toward telling us which White Sox team we have for the stretch run. A loss tonight is unacceptable at this point.

Dadawg_77
08-18-2003, 08:51 PM
You can this :hurt
or you can have that:walnuts

Twins8791
08-18-2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by FJA

Frank hits a two-run homer.
It couldn't be, he's not playing first base.

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:52 PM
We better win this game soon if we're going to. We're sure as hell not going to win a battle of the bullpens.

balboner
08-18-2003, 08:54 PM
Whoever plays SS for the Sox next year, they better be able to hit lefties!

FJA
08-18-2003, 08:56 PM
I hope the good Tom Gordon is back, because I bet we'll see some more :corpseball if we go into the bottom half trailing.

Nick@Nite
08-18-2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by balboner
Whoever plays SS for the Sox next year, they better be able to hit lefties!

:payrod
"I can hit lefties"

adsit
08-18-2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by daver
Do you have a prefference to caliber,and whether it comes from a pistol,rifle,or carbine?

I can probably oblige you in any of these aspects.


:)

I've got a pretty thick skull, so you might have to sacrifice some velocity for penetration... hi-grain .33 or .38, maybe?

Daver
08-18-2003, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by adsit
I've got a pretty thick skull, so you might have to sacrifice some velocity for penetration... hi-grain .33 or .38, maybe?

No problem,I have a Barrett .50 cal,it will peirce a deisel engine block.


:redneck

SoxEd
08-18-2003, 09:04 PM
Now it's up to the top of the batting order - what can we come up with/
Here's hoping...

FJA
08-18-2003, 09:04 PM
If we hit a home run to win this game, somebody must tell this team before tomorrow's game that hitting home runs isn't the only way to be a hero.

Nick@Nite
08-18-2003, 09:08 PM
Nice gapper, Tony... Now, can someone please lay a bunt down?

FJA
08-18-2003, 09:08 PM
I predict very good things will happen to this team if Robbie bunts Tony to third, and Frank sacrifices him in to win the game.

Manufacturing a run in the bottom of the ninth would be a very, very good thing for a team who thinks you need to hit home runs to win games.

JJAustin69
08-18-2003, 09:10 PM
Finally, a successful bunt in the clutch.

dougs78
08-18-2003, 09:10 PM
Nice. Its good to have a player on your team who can actually get down a bunt.

Now come on Frank (or whoever they dont' walk) lets get a sac fly.

adsit
08-18-2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by FJA
I predict very good things will happen to this team if Robbie bunts Tony to third, and Frank sacrifices him in to win the game.

Manufacturing a run in the bottom of the ninth would be a very, very good thing for a team who thinks you need to hit home runs to win games.

Well, here's hoping.... :gulp:

Dadawg_77
08-18-2003, 09:11 PM
nah bloop hit into center

SoxEd
08-18-2003, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by FJA
I predict very good things will happen to this team if Robbie bunts Tony to third, and Frank sacrifices him in to win the game.

Manufacturing a run in the bottom of the ninth would be a very, very good thing for a team who thinks you need to hit home runs to win games.

I heard that...

FJA
08-18-2003, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by JJAustin69
Finally, a successful bunt in the clutch.

EXACTLY why I love having Robbie Alomar on this team.

:jerry

"Look, kids, what YOU TOO can do!"

flo-B-flo
08-18-2003, 09:13 PM
HEY someone on the SOX successfully bunted for a sacrifice. Am I seeing things?!?!

FJA
08-18-2003, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by flo-B-flo
HEY someone on the SOX successfully bunted for a sacrifice. Am I seeing things?!?!

In an important situation, no less. Welcome, bizarro Sox ... stay awhile!

dougs78
08-18-2003, 09:15 PM
OK Frank, that will do also. :cool:

JJAustin69
08-18-2003, 09:15 PM
THAT WAS HUGE!!!! HUGE FRANK!!!

flo-B-flo
08-18-2003, 09:16 PM
That lightning bolt you just saw was another game winnng homer for Frank.

SoxEd
08-18-2003, 09:17 PM
A sac fly would've been better, but :putitontheboard

FJA
08-18-2003, 09:17 PM
Well, at least the kids saw the bunt.

Nice job, Frank! :gulp:

I've seen something like this before at the beginning of July, though ... let's hope this movie ends a little differently. :smile:

Dadawg_77
08-18-2003, 09:17 PM
NyA 11 KC 6

Nick@Nite
08-18-2003, 09:17 PM
:hurt
Game, Set, and Match!

:jerry
"U da man, Frank"

Dadawg_77
08-18-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by SoxEd
A sac fly would've been better, but :putitontheboard

Why? You have money on it?

adsit
08-18-2003, 09:17 PM
Well... hey... guess there's no dispute about that, huh????

Frank's gonna die at DH now, not like he wasn't going to anyway...

First time in six nights we can call it a White Sox Winner! :gulp:

Nice rally. Real nice.

voodoochile
08-18-2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by SoxEd
A sac fly would've been better, but :putitontheboard

What exactly is a home run, except a sac fly that goes too far?

SoxEd
08-18-2003, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Why? You have money on it?

Nope, but when you sit up watching on Gameday til between 3 and 5am to see a road trip like that, this sure feels good !

voodoochile
08-18-2003, 09:21 PM
BTW, in the 8th or 9th inning, I saw some fans in the stands with signs that read "Fire Manuel". Only saw it briefly. I think they were sitting behind the Angels dugout. Fox Sports didn't show them cleanly, just caught it in the background, but it was obvious what the signs said. I wouldn't be surprised if Sportscenter has highlights...

adsit
08-18-2003, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by FJA
Welcome, bizarro Sox ... stay awhile!

Here's to schizophrenia! :gulp:

The "good Sox" are back, at least for now...

Nick@Nite
08-18-2003, 09:21 PM
:tomatoaward

duke of dorwood
08-18-2003, 09:22 PM
20 infielders wasnt gonna hold that one-way to handle a gimmick defense

flo-B-flo
08-18-2003, 09:49 PM
Tony G doubles, R. Alo sacs,( a bunt) mouse ears-- and let me get this straight-- keep lefty in against Frank. They don't even think he can get it out of the infield. To Frank: in spite of efforts to minimize your accomplishments proceed to carry this team and it's inept management to the promised land. GO-GO SOX

voodoochile
08-18-2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by flo-B-flo
Tony G doubles, R. Alo sacs,( a bunt) mouse ears-- and let me get this straight-- keep lefty in against Frank. They don't even think he can get it out of the infield. To Frank: in spite of efforts to minimize your accomplishments proceed to carry this team and it's inept management to the promised land. GO-GO SOX

I didn't get the decision to leave Washburn in either, especially after Frank drilled the last pitch he saw from Washburn into the CF seats. I really expected the Angels to walk Frank and then pitch to Maggs in the hope of getting a DP grounder...

flo-B-flo
08-18-2003, 10:11 PM
Another for Jbadmanager. If Frank would perform in direct proportion to how he's getting screwed maybe we win a playoff game.

cheeses_h_rice
08-18-2003, 10:15 PM
Just back from the park, where 33,000 saw one of the best games this year (I mark it as my best game this year by far). What was looking like a potential no-no by Washburn, ruining a solid outing by Buehrle, turned into Frankfest 2003. That last AB was *classic* -- fouling off pitches, right size/wrong shape, and then BOOM, the hammer!

Too bad Burly didn't get the W, but with KC falling to the Yanks tonight, the Sox absolutely needed this game. Only 2 back now...unbelievable.

Let's hope they use this game as a linchpin to better things and BETTER HITTING, please.

:gulp:

Procol Harum
08-18-2003, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
What exactly is a home run, except a sac fly that goes too far?

The Sox extract a Zen moment from Voodoo :)

Lip Man 1
08-19-2003, 12:34 AM
I think I have a possible reason why Manager Gandhi refuses to put Frank at first base.

With all the recent controversy, all the pressure from the media and the fans to do this, let alone Frank himself asking to be put there, Gandhi can't look like he's bowing down to outside / peer pressure.

It can't look (at least in his mind) like he's lost control of this team and is doing what others want.

It's a common White Sox problem. The owner for years has basically been saying "you guys (i.e. the media, fans, players and agents) aren't going to tell ME how to run MY team!" (even that the other groups are probably correct in what they are screaming for.

The bottom line like with most things...it's all about ego...it's all about power.

Just my opinion.

Lip

kempsted
08-19-2003, 11:31 AM
I was at this game last night and it was a lot of fun. I was surprised when reading this thread though. Were people here WATCHING the game? There were 5 or 6 hard hit line drives off Washburn in the first 6 innings. All of them looked good and happened to hit a defender. My buddy and I were saying - He can't keep this luck up all night. This is not a no hitter performance.

On another note - Hey our manager didn't do anything to hurt us tonight and the angels manager did. OK you have a pitcher who has actually been hit all night. Thomas who hit a home run is up. OK you are going to leave him in ? Fine. But why not IBB Thomas. He hits almost all his outs as fly balls and a fly ball wins it. He also has Ordonez and Lee coming up - both are leading the league in ground outs for double plays. Weird. Instead he goes for the gimmicky 4 infielders.

RKMeibalane
08-19-2003, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I think I have a possible reason why Manager Gandhi refuses to put Frank at first base.

With all the recent controversy, all the pressure from the media and the fans to do this, let alone Frank himself asking to be put there, Gandhi can't look like he's bowing down to outside / peer pressure.

It can't look (at least in his mind) like he's lost control of this team and is doing what others want.

It's a common White Sox problem. The owner for years has basically been saying "you guys (i.e. the media, fans, players and agents) aren't going to tell ME how to run MY team!" (even that the other groups are probably correct in what they are screaming for.

The bottom line like with most things...it's all about ego...it's all about power.

Just my opinion.

Lip

This situation has progressed to the point where I don't really care about Manuel's reasons anymore. He needs to be fired. That's all that matters.