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View Full Version : *Official* Game Thread - Sox vs. Angels - August 12, 2003


RKMeibalane
08-12-2003, 09:10 PM
2B- Alomar
LF- Lee
DH- Thomas
RF- Ordonez
CF- Everett
1B- Konerko
SS- Valentin
3B- Crede
C- Alomar Jr.

:jerry

"I love pulling people's chains."

:hurt

"Mine gets pulled a lot."

:manos

"Mine, too. Why do you suppose that is, Frank?"

:hurt

"Because our manager is an idiot."

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 09:47 PM
Come on Sox, let's score some early runs tonight...

valposoxfan
08-12-2003, 09:57 PM
Cotts just looks like he's tough...He's ready folks. I think he is gonna keep us in this one tonite. :smile:

RKMeibalane
08-12-2003, 10:10 PM
The Sox need to do a better job with men on base. Last night was a disaster, and that was one reason why.

RKMeibalane
08-12-2003, 10:11 PM
Alomar starts this game off with a base hit.

adsit
08-12-2003, 10:14 PM
James Baldwin serves up some taters to the Jndjans... three solo HR's and Cle. still batting, now leads 6-4

Meanwhile Yanks still TCB, leading KC 4-0 top 8

flo-B-flo
08-12-2003, 10:23 PM
single-disputed k-foul popout-steal-magglio rbi-steal, third on error-hit 2-0-k

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 10:27 PM
Nice first inning too bad I only saw part of it because a house is on fire down the block from me and I can see the firemen chopping through the roof with my binoculors. Third Watch comes to my neighborhood live. I think that house is abandoned and wouldn't be surprised to learn it was an arson job. The people who bought it a long time ago never did get ther rehab finished. They laid a foundation for a garage and built walls, but never finished it. The front yard is all weeds...

FJA
08-12-2003, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by adsit
James Baldwin serves up some taters to the Jndjans... three solo HR's and Cle. still batting, now leads 6-4

Meanwhile Yanks still TCB, leading KC 4-0 top 8

I like it when a former pitcher can help us out, unlike this guy
:XL

Thanks JB!

RKMeibalane
08-12-2003, 10:30 PM
Prediction: Neal Cotts will be better than Danny Wrong.

adsit
08-12-2003, 10:31 PM
I missed it too... was feasting on the CLE/MIN game... they put up 4 runs in the 7th and now lead 8-4.

Can't see or hear this one right now... how's the new kid look so far?

LuvSox
08-12-2003, 10:39 PM
Can't say how the kid looks, he wasn't out there long enough :D: . Sox lead 3-0

Brian26
08-12-2003, 10:40 PM
Sox caught a big break on the Crede tag-up. Hopefully we can capitalize on it. A couple of gift runs so far.

Rocklive99
08-12-2003, 10:40 PM
I believe the 1st hitter grounded out, the next hitter hit a soft single thru the infield, and then the next hitter grounded into a double play. Not too many pitches thrown

flo-B-flo
08-12-2003, 10:41 PM
one run...man

balboner
08-12-2003, 10:42 PM
I don't think Carlos could swing more for the fences right now if he tried.

RKMeibalane
08-12-2003, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by balboner
I don't think Carlos could swing more for the fences right now if he tried.

He needs to stop doing that.

adsit
08-12-2003, 10:46 PM
Uh, kid... you like pitching in the majors? We need strikes.

LuvSox
08-12-2003, 10:47 PM
Anyone hear Hawk talking about Robbie's leadership? He thinks the other guys are responding to Robbies agressive play. Well, it's about damn time. They sure as hell can't respond to Manuel, he's a dolt.

flo-B-flo
08-12-2003, 10:50 PM
Cotts is acting like the proverbial deer in the headlights. getting behind most hitters. duck snort 3-1

adsit
08-12-2003, 10:50 PM
Ugh. I can't watch... and all I'm looking at is Gamecast's graphical representation...

ndgt10
08-12-2003, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by adsit
Ugh. I can't watch... and all I'm looking at is Gamecast's graphical representation...

Go to MLB.com and use gameday. It is much better, being only one pitch behind in real time.

FJA
08-12-2003, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by flo-B-flo
Cotts is acting like the proverbial deer in the headlights. getting behind most hitters. duck snort 3-1

I think if Cotts can get out of this inning with only one run, we might see some better control in the 3rd ... he looks like he's a little scared of the hitters right now. It's his first few major league innings ... give him a chance to settle down. It's VERY obvious he's nervous.

MarqSox
08-12-2003, 10:54 PM
I've been hearing a lot about recently about how great Angels fans are.

Well, the Angels announcers just explained what a 3-6-1 double play is, by explaining that "every position has a number: 1 is the pitcher, 2 is the catcher ..."

Yeah, some great fans. They need THAT spelled out for them!

flo-B-flo
08-12-2003, 10:55 PM
than.....gas he gone still 3-1

balboner
08-12-2003, 10:55 PM
Cotts really needs to work on his control. He wasnt even close on those two 3-2 pitches.

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by FJA
I think if Cotts can get out of this inning with only one run, we might see some better control in the 3rd ... he looks like he's a little scared of the hitters right now. It's his first few major league innings ... give him a chance to settle down. It's VERY obvious he's nervous.

I totally agree. And, it was nice to see him calm down there and get back into the inning after that unlucky hit to score the run. The kid has stones, now hopefully he can use them...

Fisk72
08-12-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by flo-B-flo
than.....gas he gone still 3-1

I'm very impressed that Cotts was able to get out of that jam without much damage. He kept cool and did his part. Whether or not he'll be the same throughout the rest of the game is to be seen; however, I like what I see for a guy brought up for his 1st major league start. MUCH better than Danny Wrong!

Rocklive99
08-12-2003, 10:57 PM
2 walks to start the inning off, basehit to short left field by Molina, then a double play and strikeout. 3-1 Sox.

It's a final, Yankees beat Royals 6-0

FJA
08-12-2003, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I totally agree. And, it was nice to see him calm down there and get back into the inning after that unlucky hit to score the run. The kid has stones, now hopefully he can use them...

He really showed those stones on that strike out ... a few batters earlier, he would've placed a pitch high and away. Anytime a first-timer puts two guys on with no outs, has a man on third with two outs and gets out of the inning with only one run (and it's NOT that man on third) ... that's a good inning in my book. Hell, Garland doesn't do that on A LOT of nights. Let's hope he keeps up what we saw in the second half of that inning, though ...

flo-B-flo
08-12-2003, 11:00 PM
need runs

adsit
08-12-2003, 11:01 PM
All done at Kaufman, Yanks did their part... 6-0 your final, KC sucks.

Cleveland adding to their lead, now 9-4, top 9th.

We're getting all the outside help we need... can we capitalize?

I am liking Gameday better... can't hear the game audio in my office and I hate relying on the javabox. Thanks, ndgt. Heading home in a few minutes where I can pick up the audio feed.

Jerko
08-12-2003, 11:06 PM
Can ANYBODY on this team score from first on a 2 out double?

balboner
08-12-2003, 11:09 PM
Jerry, get the bullpen up now!!!!

Randar68
08-12-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
Can ANYBODY on this team score from first on a 2 out double?

Come on, that was a frozen rope, wall on the fly with a hard carom right to the RF'er... Harris might not have scored on that.

Randar68
08-12-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by balboner
Jerry, get the bullpen up now!!!!

Cotts looking intimidated. He's opening up early almost every pitch now. 2 innings in a row. Needs to settle down.

FJA
08-12-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
Can ANYBODY on this team score from first on a 2 out double?

If anybody can, that man is most certainly not Paul Konerko.

balboner
08-12-2003, 11:10 PM
Cotts is not a major league pitcher at all right now. His control is pathetic, and his stuff isnt good enough to overcome it.

Jerko
08-12-2003, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by FJA
If anybody can, that man is most certainly not Paul Konerko.

Sorry guys, I didn't see it, I just figured with Valentin up there were 2 strikes on him and the runner should have been off with the pitch. I just found out now it was a 3-0 count and a rope.

FJA
08-12-2003, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by balboner
Cotts is not a major league pitcher at all right now. His control is pathetic, and his stuff isnt good enough to overcome it.

Nope, and to boot, Danny Wrong is warming up. So basically, we're back at square one with this fifth starter disaster unless Neal Cotts decides to start throwing strikes.

WhiteSox = Life
08-12-2003, 11:15 PM
I'm liking what I'm seeing from Cotts, but he's already given up 5 walks, and three here in the third inning. No pitcher is going to be successful with the transgression of such a stat.

C'mon. Let's go, Cotts.

Edit: Cotts' composure and pitching is good, but his control is horrible. He looks all right, but the walks are devastating.

flo-B-flo
08-12-2003, 11:16 PM
walk-walk-bunt3-4-walk bases jammed-mine as well start schoenweiss-walk a run

duke of dorwood
08-12-2003, 11:17 PM
Thats too bad-

balboner
08-12-2003, 11:17 PM
Enjoy the flight home Cotts, thanks for nothing. At least let them swing the bat and beat you.

FJA
08-12-2003, 11:18 PM
If there was one thing I didn't want Neal Cotts to do in his major league debut, that thing might have been lasting only 2 1/3 and leaving the bases loaded for Danny Wrong, who will work quite a few innings in this one.

Rocklive99
08-12-2003, 11:18 PM
Lead off walk to Kennedy, next batter (Figgens?) walks on 4 straight pitches, Amezaga sacrificed the runners over (im preaty sure it was a bunt but I was lookin at the computer), Anderson walks to load the bases (5th, 3rd this inning). Salmon walks with the bases loaded. That's all for Neil. 2 and a third, 6 walks, 2 earned runs so far, 2 hits.

I believe Wright was warming

balboner
08-12-2003, 11:18 PM
Kenny Williams better be on the phone trying to acquire a 5th starter now. I don't know what he's been waiting for.

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 11:18 PM
I thought it was interesting that Manuel even let him pitch to Tim Salmon. I'm not sure he would have let Wright or Garland do it.

WhiteSox = Life
08-12-2003, 11:19 PM
And, as Cotts leaves, having given up 2 ER with the bases loaded, along with 6 walks (4 in the 3rd), Danny "I Can't Pitch" Wright comes in from the bullpen.

Now, can the 1st reliever for the 5th starter get out of this bases loaded, one out situation?

Hope so...

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by balboner
Enjoy the flight home Cotts, thanks for nothing. At least let them swing the bat and beat you.

Yeah, but what did he show tonight other than nerves? I think they may give him another start before dumping him back to the minors. I don't know if that is a good thing or not.

Jerko
08-12-2003, 11:19 PM
We're so afraid to let Wrong start so now he's in with a one run lead and the bags jammed. I know JM's hands are tied here, but I just hope this first pitch that is just a get it over pitch does not leave the park.

balz1472
08-12-2003, 11:20 PM
Alright, being a pitcher in my past I have to say... cut the guy some slack! Believe me I am as pissed as anyone sitting here when I could be sleeping watching him walk the entire Angels team. BUT... If anyone has been in a situation like he is in... he just needs to relax. I think they should give him another couple outings before they make a decision. His stuff is pretty nasty... plus he is better than the pud they just brought in.

balboner
08-12-2003, 11:21 PM
I don't know how anyone can take anything positive from this start by Cotts. It's not like he was just missing w/his pitches either.

balz1472
08-12-2003, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Yeah, but what did he show tonight other than nerves? I think they may give him another start before dumping him back to the minors. I don't know if that is a good thing or not.

WELL PUT, VOODOO.

MarqSox
08-12-2003, 11:21 PM
So where's everybody who was so excited about Cotts?

FJA
08-12-2003, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I thought it was interesting that Manuel even let him pitch to Tim Salmon. I'm not sure he would have let Wright or Garland do it.

I thought it was interesting, but maybe the right move. We really needed to see how Neal Cotts would work out of a serious jam. The major problem with Wrong and Garland is that they sometimes don't work out of jams ... what if Cotts had? That would have been at least encouraging.

flo-B-flo
08-12-2003, 11:22 PM
speizio-popped it up 2 out

balboner
08-12-2003, 11:22 PM
We're in a pennant race, we can't keeping giving starts to people that don't give us a good chance to win. We gave away too many games w/Porzio and Wright starting in the last few months.

LuvSox
08-12-2003, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
So where's everybody who was so excited about Cotts?

Past their bed time :D:

WhiteSox = Life
08-12-2003, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by balz1472
Alright, being a pitcher in my past I have to say... cut the guy some slack! Believe me I am as pissed as anyone sitting here when I could be sleeping watching him walk the entire Angels team. BUT... If anyone has been in a situation like he is in... he just needs to relax. I think they should give him another couple outings before they make a decision. His stuff is pretty nasty... plus he is better than the pud they just brought in.

I agree. He showed guts and nerves, both at the same time. Sure, he may have lasted only 2-2/3, but his stuff was good, his control wasn't. Cotts, IMO, should get another start, and if he doesn't do substantially better his second appearance than he did his first start, then it's back to AA where he can continue developing and working on stopping all the walks.

FJA
08-12-2003, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
I agree. He showed guts and nerves, both at the same time. Sure, he may have lasted only 2-2/3, but his stuff was good, his control wasn't. Cotts, IMO, should get another start, and if he doesn't do substantially better his second appearance than he did his first start, then it's back to AA where he can continue developing and working on stopping all the walks.

Does anyone know off-hand when the next time we need a fifth starter is?

cadman
08-12-2003, 11:26 PM
bases loaded, one out and angels only get one run, who do they think they are the sox

LuvSox
08-12-2003, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by FJA
Does anyone know off-hand when the next time we need a fifth starter is?

Probably Sunday

flo-B-flo
08-12-2003, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by balz1472
Alright, being a pitcher in my past I have to say... cut the guy some slack! Believe me I am as pissed as anyone sitting here when I could be sleeping watching him walk the entire Angels team. BUT... If anyone has been in a situation like he is in... he just needs to relax. I think they should give him another couple outings before they make a decision. His stuff is pretty nasty... plus he is better than the pud they just brought in. this I can agree with, give him a couple more outings hope he's not ankiel :o:

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 11:28 PM
Wright pitches out of it with some help from Molina who swung at ball 4 on the final out.

Have to say that the ump has a tight strike zone, IMO. He hasn't been calling the inside corner to L/H batters all night. I thought Cotts had Salmon rung up on a chest high outside corner fastball, but the ump didn't give it to him. Of course he didn't give it to Wright either, so at least he is being consitent.

Fire update: It is out, but they haven't got the hoses up yet and the cars that were stopped when it started (about the begining of the game) are still sitting there on the corner outside my house.

WhiteSox = Life
08-12-2003, 11:28 PM
Good job by Wright to get out of the inning, unscathed.

I think Cotts had good stuff tonight, but couldn't locate. Obviously, that's proved to be his Achille's Heel in AA. You can get away with walks there, but not in the Majors. If Cotts doesn't perform better next time (considering he gets another), then it's back to AA.

And, that proves one thing, for sure. KW needs to find a 5th starter.

MisterB
08-12-2003, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Yeah, but what did he show tonight other than nerves?

That he can't hit the broad side of a barn?
That it's easier to get AA batters to swing at bad pitches?
That he ain't near ready for the majors?
That the Sox need to get another starter, pronto?

Anyone else want to jump in?

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Probably Sunday

Then Friday thereafter. The next off date is Monday, 8/25.

balz1472
08-12-2003, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by balboner
We're in a pennant race, we can't keeping giving starts to people that don't give us a good chance to win. We gave away too many games w/Porzio and Wright starting in the last few months.

So, what is your suggestion? We need a 5th starter... we have to keep trying until something works. Don't you think?

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
That he can't hit the broad side of a barn?
That it's easier to get AA batters to swing at bad pitches?
That he ain't near ready for the majors?
That the Sox need to get another starter, pronto?

Anyone else want to jump in?

Yeah, they always call up pitchers who can't pitch and get by on fooling AA hitters. Come on...

SoxxoS
08-12-2003, 11:30 PM
Maybe it's time for Jerry to bite the bullet and pick up Livan Hernandez and that 6 million dollar option for next year.

We will worry about that next year.

Mine as well go for it.

LuvSox
08-12-2003, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
Can ANYBODY on this team score from first on a 2 out double?

Robbie does on the one out double :D:

flo-B-flo
08-12-2003, 11:34 PM
drives in r-alomar,Frank-walk,Maggs-

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 11:34 PM
Glover is up in the Angels' pen.

LuvSox
08-12-2003, 11:34 PM
Well well well, Gary Glover in the Angels pen......

WhiteSox = Life
08-12-2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Robbie does on the one out double :D:

You've been waiting to type that, haven't you?

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Glover is up in the Angels' pen.


Originally posted by LuvSox
Well well well, Gary Glover in the Angels pen......


Jinx... Are you following me? :D:

LuvSox
08-12-2003, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
You've been waiting to type that, haven't you?

Nooooooo :D:

LuvSox
08-12-2003, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Jinx... Are you following me? :D:

Go watch a fire!

WhiteSox = Life
08-12-2003, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Nooooooo :D:

Yeeeeessssss.

:D:

flo-B-flo
08-12-2003, 11:39 PM
bad hop hit Carlo scores.....Glover coming in

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 11:40 PM
Here's Gary...

That single by Maggs was really a DP ball that took a funny hop at the last second. I'll take it....

LuvSox
08-12-2003, 11:40 PM
If I were Glover.......I'd let a burner go right at Manuel. Sportscenter highlight for sure.

FJA
08-12-2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Here's Gary...

That single by Maggs was really a DP ball that took a funny hop at the last second. I'll take it....

Maybe we can return the favor for them lighting up Schoeneweis.

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by LuvSox
Go watch a fire!

I told you, it's out, but the cars are still stuck. This one at the front of the line has had his flashers on for about 80 minutes straight and had his lights on for the first 45 minutes before I noticed and yelled for him to shut them off...

LuvSox
08-12-2003, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
had his lights on for the first 45 minutes before I noticed and yelled for him to shut them off...

That must be a Cubbie fan.

flo-B-flo
08-12-2003, 11:44 PM
bases loaded--sac flyout--

Vsahajpal
08-12-2003, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
So where's everybody who was so excited about Cotts?


One start and your mind is made up, huh? Wow.

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by flo-B-flo
bases loaded--sac flyout--

You forgot the key words - by Paulie. Way to go Konehead. You didn't hit into a DP and you got a run home.

Actually both he and Valentin just missed home-runs.

MisterB
08-12-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Yeah, they always call up pitchers who can't pitch and get by on fooling AA hitters. Come on...

Cotts is a very good AA pitcher - which may or may not mean squat in the majors. At this point the Sox don't have the luxury of giving Cotts x number of ML starts to see if he can help this season. We don't have a bullpen deep enough to make up for a starter who can't last at least 5 innings. And we definitely can't kiss off every 5th game for the rest of the season - not with the schedule we've got ahead of us.

Enjoy the trip back to Birmingham, Neal. And see you next spring.

WhiteSox = Life
08-12-2003, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
You forgot the key words - by Paulie. Way to go Konehead. You didn't hit into a DP and you got a run home.

Actually both he and Valentin just missed home-runs.

See post subject.

balboner
08-12-2003, 11:54 PM
Our bullpen right now is an absolute joke.

balboner
08-12-2003, 11:56 PM
Big innings happen when you walk the number 9 hitter.

balboner
08-12-2003, 11:57 PM
Danny, nothing good to Anderson here please.

SoxxoS
08-12-2003, 11:57 PM
I can definitely see Hawk saying "It's 6-6" while the ball is on it's way to L.A.

TRL
08-12-2003, 11:58 PM
Thank you Danny.

Glad to get out of that.

SoxxoS
08-12-2003, 11:59 PM
This game is going faster than Buehrle/Mulder.

balboner
08-12-2003, 11:59 PM
Wow, we're getting lucky tonight so far.

WhiteSox = Life
08-13-2003, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
This game is going faster than Buehrle/Mulder.

All three games would be near completion right now.

I don't mind these long games, though, since there's such good pitching and defense.

voodoochile
08-13-2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
See post subject.

I can't be bothered with such triviality...

Nice job pitching out of it by Wright. That "single" that loaded the bases was a swinging bunt. I don't think the Sox are done scoring tonight. They've looked real good at the plate all night...

adsit
08-13-2003, 12:01 AM
All right, I'm plugged back in... did I just hear Glover's pitching??!! Cool.

voodoochile
08-13-2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by balboner
Wow, we're getting lucky tonight so far.

We are? Two of the Angels runs have scored because of two complete flukes.

WhiteSox = Life
08-13-2003, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I can't be bothered with such triviality...

Crap. Then I'm guessing this wouldn't be the best time to ask you who the shortest President was, huh?

TRL
08-13-2003, 12:05 AM
you got to love it when Sandy Alomar gets and infield hit

Randar68
08-13-2003, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by balboner
Cotts is not a major league pitcher at all right now. His control is pathetic, and his stuff isnt good enough to overcome it.

Jesus! First game jitters got the best of him. Glad to see everyone is such a good armchair pitcher now too. His mechanics went from inconsistent to worse. His release point was all over the place and he was opening up so early he couldn't get the ball back to the plate no matter what.

TRL
08-13-2003, 12:13 AM
My thoughts on Cotts:

He's got a pretty good arm
decent fastball/change combo
needs to get the breaking ball over
works quick when he isn't walking everybody

I'd like to see him in another start before we throw him in the dump

flo-B-flo
08-13-2003, 12:13 AM
they are hitting rockets foul and outs fair

adsit
08-13-2003, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Jesus! First game jitters got the best of him. Glad to see everyone is such a good armchair pitcher now too. His mechanics went from inconsistent to worse. His release point was all over the place and he was opening up so early he couldn't get the ball back to the plate no matter what.

I'm all for giving Cotts a chance... just not at this particular point in the season. Could we not have let him be a Charlotte Knight for a while? Isn't that why there's different skill levels in the minor leagues?

flo-B-flo
08-13-2003, 12:17 AM
drop by everett no harm done

TRL
08-13-2003, 12:19 AM
i hate to say it but Gary is throwing pretty well

Randar68
08-13-2003, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by adsit
I'm all for giving Cotts a chance... just not at this particular point in the season. Could we not have let him be a Charlotte Knight for a while? Isn't that why there's different skill levels in the minor leagues?

A lot of Sox pitchers have been successful coming straight from AA to the majors. Charlotte is a good place to go if you want to blow any shred of confidence you might have (unless you are a groundball pitcher).

Frankly, the pressure and situation were just too much for Neal tonight. Only a tad over 300 Minor League innings. Not a whole lot.

FoulTerritory
08-13-2003, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
Crap. Then I'm guessing this wouldn't be the best time to ask you who the shortest President was, huh?


I think Millard Fillmore was pretty darn short.

flo-B-flo
08-13-2003, 12:24 AM
carlo-flyout--frank-line out--maggs-ground out

adsit
08-13-2003, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Frankly, the pressure and situation were just too much for Neal tonight. Only a tad over 300 Minor League innings. Not a whole lot.

Wow, that's an understatement. Neal just got a little more respect from me. Let's have another look at him.

FJA
08-13-2003, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by TRL
My thoughts on Cotts:

He's got a pretty good arm
decent fastball/change combo
needs to get the breaking ball over
works quick when he isn't walking everybody

I'd like to see him in another start before we throw him in the dump

Agreed on every point ... I think if we win tonight, he gets another start. If not, I'm not so sure. We need to start some sort of trend for games with the fifth starter spot TODAY. I think if we win this game, which means Cotts isn't playing the blame game with himself, we give him another shot next time.

adsit
08-13-2003, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by FoulTerritory
I think Millard Fillmore was pretty darn short.

William Henry Harrison... died a month after being sworn in...

voodoochile
08-13-2003, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Frankly, the pressure and situation were just too much for Neal tonight. Only a tad over 300 Minor League innings. Not a whole lot.

That is a tough spot to be. Not only is it a pennant race and a first start, but there is no one on this team who is familiar with him at all. None of the coaches have ever worked with him and none of the players have ever played with him. Must have seemed lonely on that mound tonigh even if it wasn't.

SluggersAway
08-13-2003, 12:31 AM
James Madison was the shortest at 5'4 while blood thirsty Abe Lincoln was the tallest at 6'4 and William Taft was the largest at 6 feet and 300 pounds...

Randar68
08-13-2003, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
That is a tough spot to be. Not only is it a pennant race and a first start, but there is no one on this team who is familiar with him at all. None of the coaches have ever worked with him and none of the players have ever played with him. Must have seemed lonely on that mound tonigh even if it wasn't.

I definitely would rather have seen Olivo in there tonight, Sandy didn't really have any idea how to calm him down or get his mechanics straight...

flo-B-flo
08-13-2003, 12:34 AM
James Madison short in stature big in ideas

adsit
08-13-2003, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by SluggersAway
James Madison was the shortest at 5'4 while William Taft was the largest at 6 feet and 300 pounds...

Shortest president, not presidenCY. Oh... ok... gotcha. I'll take your word for it.

flo-B-flo
08-13-2003, 12:39 AM
hard grounder run scores

flo-B-flo
08-13-2003, 12:41 AM
Konerko out on wild pitch

Randar68
08-13-2003, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by flo-B-flo
hard grounder run scores

Man, Almonzenga (sp?) has been the cause of 3 or 4 runs tonight.

Ouch, Sandy, It's Konerko on 3rd!!!! Man, ball came right back to Molina. Catchers' eyes get wide on those kinds of breaks. makes first out at the plate!

Randar68
08-13-2003, 12:42 AM
Sandy, double down the line, great slide into second to beat the throw. scores 2, 9-3 Sox, YYYYYYESSSSSSSS!

adsit
08-13-2003, 12:43 AM
Ugh, Konerko out at home. I'm not too upset with that... looks like the Sox are playing "small ball" tonight. I'd have liked to see some of this last night. And Sandy brings in a couple more as I type. It's all good. :smile:

FJA
08-13-2003, 12:44 AM
good lord, the angels are playing an ugly game

Randar68
08-13-2003, 12:44 AM
Originally posted by adsit
Ugh, Konerko out at home. I'm not too upset with that... looks like the Sox are playing "small ball" tonight. I'd have liked to see some of this last night. And Jose brings in a couple more as I type. It's all good. :smile:

Yeah, thanks to the E's and a couple stupid plays by their SS. Still blew some early chances to put this game in the bag by the 4th inning they let get by them without too much of a fight.

Randar68
08-13-2003, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by balboner
Kenny Williams better be on the phone trying to acquire a 5th starter now. I don't know what he's been waiting for.

For what, one more start?

Sheeesh, Sox are gonna win this one.

Settle down, Cletus.

fuzzy_patters
08-13-2003, 12:46 AM
10-3, put in Schoenweis.

flo-B-flo
08-13-2003, 12:47 AM
another big inning with help-10-3

adsit
08-13-2003, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Yeah, thanks to the E's and a couple stupid plays by their SS. Still blew some early chances to put this game in the bag by the 4th inning they let get by them without too much of a fight.

Missed that fourth... I was driving home from the office. I'll catch the condensed game tomorrow.

flo-B-flo
08-13-2003, 12:51 AM
we all know for sure its not over till the last out...right?

flo-B-flo
08-13-2003, 12:55 AM
getting late. Who's your closer? I'd try Wunsch.

inta
08-13-2003, 12:55 AM
someone on here yesterday mentioned the game where the sox rallied from way back in the 9th to lose to the tigers, only to go on a tear after that.

hopefully that's what we're all about to witness.

who cares if A's are playing ugly ball, it's taking big advantage of such situations that make a great team.

Tragg
08-13-2003, 12:56 AM
What happened to Cotts? Start walking everybody in sight? How did he look prior to the collapse?

adsit
08-13-2003, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by flo-B-flo
getting late. Who's your closer? I'd try Wunsch.

Why not Koch first? Seriously. Give him some work. Then Wunsch.

voodoochile
08-13-2003, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by flo-B-flo
getting late. Who's your closer? I'd try Wunsch.

Why do we need a closer? Wright has only thrown 71 pitches. For what it is worth, Wunsch is up in the bullpen.

cheeses_h_rice
08-13-2003, 12:59 AM
What I saw of Cotts tonight was brutal; he walked 4 guys in one inning before being pulled.

The Sox's bacon tonight has been saved by Danny Wright, of all people, and Mike Sciosia leaving in the Angels' recently called up pitcher, who did his damndest to bean, walk, give up fat pitches to every Sox batter he faced.

I'm tired, and if this team can't hold a 10-3 lead, well, they don't deserve to win the damn division.

Go Sox.

WhiteSox = Life
08-13-2003, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by SluggersAway
James Madison was the shortest at 5'4 while William Taft was the largest at 6 feet and 300 pounds...


Originally posted by flo-B-flo
James Madison short in stature big in ideas

First, adsit, you're right about William Henry Harrison. That's what you get when you celebrate your victory in the rain without wearing a hat.

Taft was largest, tipping in at 332 upon his inauguration, but Lincoln was tallest at 6'4". LBJ was just an inch shorter.

Flo, Madison, the Father of the Constitution, had the ideas, but his wife loved the spotlight, too.

And, Fillmore, who took over for Taylor, his presidency was nothing but care-taking.

TRL
08-13-2003, 01:01 AM
I'd like to see Billy get an inning of work in. We have to get him going.

voodoochile
08-13-2003, 01:03 AM
The Sox are 8-13 with 9 RBI with runners in scoring position tonight...

TRL
08-13-2003, 01:05 AM
It's nice to see them put up some runs without having to use the longball.

adsit
08-13-2003, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
The Sox are 8-13 with 9 RBI with runners in scoring position tonight...

Good on 'em. We need lots and lots of that in the next month and two-thirds.

balboner
08-13-2003, 01:07 AM
Will someone tell me why Manuel brought in Wunsch to face 3 straight righties? Didnt last night's 9th inning show him anything?

TRL
08-13-2003, 01:10 AM
great catch Aaron Rowand!!!

DSpivack
08-13-2003, 01:14 AM
It was already mentioned, but it was nice to see Sox put up a 10-spot without the homerun. Just good timely hitting. Nice.

TRL
08-13-2003, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by balboner
Will someone tell me why Manuel brought in Wunsch to face 3 straight righties? Didnt last night's 9th inning show him anything?


Everyone always says that he overplays the lefty/righty situation so maybe he decided to bring in a pitcher that he thought could get someone out.

SluggersAway
08-13-2003, 01:15 AM
White Sox = Life, you forgot that Lincoln was a vicious tyrant who killed a lot of Americans.

Other things...

Bring Cotts back for another try. CE has been showing up a little more. And, yes we need a fifth starter.

Go Sox!!

SoxFanDan
08-13-2003, 01:16 AM
Dan Wright looked great tonight. that was a very pleasant surprise

MisterB
08-13-2003, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
A lot of Sox pitchers have been successful coming straight from AA to the majors.

Other than Buehrle, who have the Sox produced in the last decade that fits this criteria? :?:

SoxFanDan
08-13-2003, 01:20 AM
mcdowell, alvarez, fernandez

WhiteSox = Life
08-13-2003, 01:21 AM
Originally posted by SluggersAway
White Sox = Life, you forgot that Lincoln was a vicious tyrant who killed a lot of Americans.

Pardon? Could you elaborate on that a little bit, so I can see exactly what you're looking at? I think I know what you're saying, but I'd like to read exactly what you mean by a vicious tyrant.

Thanks.

koch44
08-13-2003, 01:26 AM
:winner

adsit
08-13-2003, 01:28 AM
One game doesn't tell for all, but I think we're on the verge of finding a new role for Wright... and it's a big one.

Good win tonight. Good baserunning, clutch hitting, execution. Cotts gets another chance, hope he makes the most of it.

Pulled back to 1/2 game, and shattered any momentum the Halos might have brought in from last night.

I'd :gulp: one for the Sox, but it's past last call here :smile:

Good night everyone.

Lip Man 1
08-13-2003, 01:32 AM
Just a few small comments.....

First off (no surprise) Neil Cotts looked like ca-ca tonight.

But you know what....IT WASN'T HIS DAMN FAULT ! (How's that for a shocker sports fans!)

Only a moron or a screwed up organization would stick a kid from Double AA ball, scared (I edited it out once, don't make me do it twice), and put him in the middle of a pennant stretch and expect him to do well.

THIS KID SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PUT IN THIS POSITION IN THE FIRST PLACE!

The blame lies on the organization (and those Sox fans as well) who assumed in the spring that such stalwarts as Danny Wright, Jon Rauch and all the other "can't miss kids," were going to suddenly turn into superstars and lead the Sox to the promised land. Assinine thinking!

In the sage and immortal words of Pale Hose George...you can NEVER have enough pitching!

Now the Sox have to scrape and pray that they can get somebody...ANYBODY...to stop turning the 5th starter spot into an automatic loss (a la 1996). Remember Manager Gandhi said in the newspapers two days ago he will NOT move to a four man rotation.

So that means the "unimportant" (according to some Sox fans) 5th starter spot is going to have the chance to pitch another four or five times. (and lose?)

It's nice to see that a number of you acknowledged tonight on this thread the seriousness of this issue. Hopefully the more denser Sox fans will come around to the correct thinking shortly.

Even more hopefully Sox "management" will do something about it before they urinate away their chances.

I'm just thankful they didn't lose tonight (or at least they haven't lost yet as I type this...) LIke Gary Peters said, the worst thing you can do both for the player and the team is EXACTLY what the Sox did tonight. As of this moment they have gotten away with it (for now..)

Do YOU want to keep playing the odds? (or as Dirty Harry Callahan said "do you feel lucky punk?)

Lip

MisterB
08-13-2003, 01:37 AM
Originally posted by SoxFanDan
mcdowell, alvarez, fernandez

They were all called up more than a decade ago, and none of them came up in the middle of a pennant race. McDowell wound up back in AAA before he stuck in the majors. Alvarez had had 23 games in AAA before we called him up from AA (and he spent parts of 3 seasons at AA). Three lucky shots over 12 years ago doesn't constitute 'A lot of pitchers' in my book.

Lip Man 1
08-13-2003, 01:42 AM
To the person who mentioned McDowell, Alvarez and Fernandez...all true! What's also true is that was a DECADE ago!

What have you done for me lately?

The last person I can recall coming up from the minors and making any type of a real impact in what was basically his first year was JAMES BALDWIN in 1996.

He started a few games early in the 95 disaster, was hammered and got sent back down. In 96 he came up and started off going 9-1 before blowing apart (along with the entire Sox team) in the seond half melt down that blew the Wild Card. But at least he finished with I think, 11 wins.

I mean guys like Sirotka, Parque etc never made that kind of impact when they came up. Neith did Jonny- boy Garland. I guess you could say Danny "I Can't Pitch" Wright since he won ten games but his ERA was astronomical and he's definately gone backwards in his career.

Lip

inta
08-13-2003, 01:45 AM
ah. good old james baldwin... that guy was a speed demon!

isnt he with the twins now? have we faced him this year?

WinningUgly!
08-13-2003, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by inta
ah. good old james baldwin... that guy was a speed demon!

isnt he with the twins now? have we faced him this year?

Yes, he's with the Twins now & took the loss tonight. Good old JB still helping the Sox' playoff chances. :D:

hose
08-13-2003, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Just a few small comments.....

First off (no surprise) Neil Cotts looked like ca-ca tonight.

But you know what....IT WASN'T HIS DAMN FAULT ! (How's that for a shocker sports fans!)

Only a moron or a screwed up organization would stick a kid from Double AA ball, scared (I edited it out once, don't make me do it twice), and put him in the middle of a pennant stretch and expect him to do well.

THIS KID SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PUT IN THIS POSITION IN THE FIRST PLACE!

The blame lies on the organization (and those Sox fans as well) who assumed in the spring that such stalwarts as Danny Wright, Jon Rauch and all the other "can't miss kids," were going to suddenly turn into superstars and lead the Sox to the promised land. Assinine thinking!

In the sage and immortal words of Pale Hose George...you can NEVER have enough pitching!

Now the Sox have to scrape and pray that they can get somebody...ANYBODY...to stop turning the 5th starter spot into an automatic loss (a la 1996). Remember Manager Gandhi said in the newspapers two days ago he will NOT move to a four man rotation.

So that means the "unimportant" (according to some Sox fans) 5th starter spot is going to have the chance to pitch another four or five times. (and lose?)

It's nice to see that a number of you acknowledged tonight on this thread the seriousness of this issue. Hopefully the more denser Sox fans will come around to the correct thinking shortly.

Even more hopefully Sox "management" will do something about it before they urinate away their chances.

I'm just thankful they didn't lose tonight (or at least they haven't lost yet as I type this...) LIke Gary Peters said, the worst thing you can do both for the player and the team is EXACTLY what the Sox did tonight. As of this moment they have gotten away with it (for now..)

Do YOU want to keep playing the odds? (or as Dirty Harry Callahan said "do you feel lucky punk?)

Lip



Lip no doubt about it , you can never have enough pitching.

Some pitchers have come out of the minors to help their team win a WS or division.

Fransico Rodriguez last year with the Angels was a late season call up.

John Lackey came up big last year for the Angels also.

Barry Zito pitched lights out for the A's when he was a late season call up and now Rich Harden is getting it done.

Young pitchers can have some success at the MLB level right off the bat , but I would rather have seasoned veterans no doubt.

hose
08-13-2003, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by SluggersAway
White Sox = Life, you forgot that Lincoln was a vicious tyrant who killed a lot of Americans.

Other things...

Bring Cotts back for another try. CE has been showing up a little more. And, yes we need a fifth starter.

Go Sox!!


Tyrant?

I have to hear this one.......explain please :?:

Randar68
08-13-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The last person I can recall coming up from the minors and making any type of a real impact in what was basically his first year was JAMES BALDWIN in 1996.


Were you asleep when Buehrle and Barcelo made HUGE impact in the 2000 race?

Both those guys came up and pitched lights out when the injuries to the rotation were limiting guys to 5-6 innings an outing.

maurice
08-13-2003, 12:32 PM
What's missing in all this venom is that the Sox won the game. The Cotts/Wright combo pitched 7 innings and gave up 3 runs, which is about three times better than the Colon/Schoenweis combo that pitched against the very same team the night before. Had we gotten the same pitching performance from our "trusty vets" on Monday, we'd be in first place right now.

Wright looks like he may have found his niche as a reliever. I don't want to see him (or Adkins) in the Sox rotation. Cotts' control isn't great, but it's not as bad as he showed in the third inning. Many Cotts supporters expected him to struggle in his first ML start, yet he only gave up two hits, one of which was a blooper off the trademark. He showed very good "stuff" (even though his curve wasn't working), resulting in lots of swings and misses. Sandy didn't help him out any by setting up four inches off the plate with a 2-2 count. Cotts should get another start on Sunday with Wright backing him up again.

REMINDER: Contrary to pre-season predictions, Sox starting pitching has been the strength of the club all season. Sox starters rank fourth in the AL in ERA, well ahead of the fifth-best team. The Sox crappy first-half performance is solely attributable to the hitters' inability to score runs. Once the team started scoring runs, they started winning games. Please can the revisionist history.

Randar68
08-13-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
Other than Buehrle, who have the Sox produced in the last decade that fits this criteria? :?:

Garland started by coming straight from AA. Kip Wells got to the big leagues straight from AA. Barcelo, pre-injury. All around the league, top pitching prospects frequently go straight from AA to AAA. The biggest difference in the hitters from AA to AAA is generally they are older and have a little better plate discipline.

Frankly, for the Sox, with Charlotte's piddly dimensions, I prefer guys don't waste time in AAA if they can help it. Can be a huge confidence killer.

Randar68
08-13-2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Just a few small comments.....

First off (no surprise) Neil Cotts looked like ca-ca tonight.

But you know what....IT WASN'T HIS DAMN FAULT ! (How's that for a shocker sports fans!)

Only a moron or a screwed up organization would stick a kid from Double AA ball, scared (I edited it out once, don't make me do it twice), and put him in the middle of a pennant stretch and expect him to do well.

THIS KID SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PUT IN THIS POSITION IN THE FIRST PLACE!

The blame lies on the organization (and those Sox fans as well) who assumed in the spring that such stalwarts as Danny Wright, Jon Rauch and all the other "can't miss kids," were going to suddenly turn into superstars and lead the Sox to the promised land. Assinine thinking!

In the sage and immortal words of Pale Hose George...you can NEVER have enough pitching!

Now the Sox have to scrape and pray that they can get somebody...ANYBODY...to stop turning the 5th starter spot into an automatic loss (a la 1996). Remember Manager Gandhi said in the newspapers two days ago he will NOT move to a four man rotation.

So that means the "unimportant" (according to some Sox fans) 5th starter spot is going to have the chance to pitch another four or five times. (and lose?)

It's nice to see that a number of you acknowledged tonight on this thread the seriousness of this issue. Hopefully the more denser Sox fans will come around to the correct thinking shortly.

Even more hopefully Sox "management" will do something about it before they urinate away their chances.

I'm just thankful they didn't lose tonight (or at least they haven't lost yet as I type this...) LIke Gary Peters said, the worst thing you can do both for the player and the team is EXACTLY what the Sox did tonight. As of this moment they have gotten away with it (for now..)

Do YOU want to keep playing the odds? (or as Dirty Harry Callahan said "do you feel lucky punk?)

Lip



Speaking of ca-ca, you need a new shtick. This one is old and used-up. "Can't-miss'kids", 5th starter, blah-blah-blah.

This team is in second because they hit .240 as a team for half the season.

If you didn't notice, the Sox won in the 5th starter spot tonight.

Yeah, let's give something up for a washed-up 5th starter to make a whopping 1 or MAYBE 2 starts the rest of the way and clog up the bullpen situation even more.



You are the king of revisionist history, Lip. It's old.

Randar68
08-13-2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by maurice
What's missing in all this venom is that the Sox won the game. The Cotts/Wright combo pitched 7 innings and gave up 3 runs, which is about three times better than the Colon/Schoenweis combo that pitched against the very same team the night before. Had we gotten the same pitching performance from our "trusty vets" on Monday, we'd be in first place right now.

Wright looks like he may have found his niche as a reliever. I don't want to see him (or Adkins) in the Sox rotation. Cotts' control isn't great, but it's not as bad as he showed in the third inning. Many Cotts supporters expected him to struggle in his first ML start, yet he only gave up two hits, one of which was a blooper off the trademark. He showed very good "stuff" (even though his curve wasn't working), resulting in lots of swings and misses. Sandy didn't help him out any by setting up four inches off the plate with a 2-2 count. Cotts should get another start on Sunday with Wright backing him up again.

REMINDER: Contrary to pre-season predictions, Sox starting pitching has been the strength of the club all season. Sox starters rank fourth in the AL in ERA, well ahead of the fifth-best team. The Sox crappy first-half performance is solely attributable to the hitters' inability to score runs. Once the team started scoring runs, they started winning games. Please can the revisionist history.



Thank GOD! Someone understands.

kempsted
08-13-2003, 01:09 PM
I hate to bring facts into the discussion of 5th starter but I am so tired of people discussing the automatic loss of the 5th starter. We are 10-11 in the games with the 5th starter!

Wright 6-6
Stewart 2-3
Porzio 1-2
Cotts 1-0

Heck we are only 11-12 with Garland starting and 12-13 with Colon starting, and 13-13 with Buehrle.

It is so stupid that people keep whining about the 5th starter. With Wright as our 5th our 5th starter is better than KC's 5th and better than Minnosota 5th and of course better than the Cubs 5th.

voodoochile
08-13-2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by kempsted
I hate to bring facts into the discussion of 5th starter but I am so tired of people discussing the automatic loss of the 5th starter. We are 10-11 in the games with the 5th starter!

Wright 6-6
Stewart 2-3
Porzio 1-2
Cotts 1-0

Heck we are only 11-12 with Garland starting and 12-13 with Colon starting, and 13-13 with Buehrle.

It is so stupid that people keep whining about the 5th starter. With Wright as our 5th our 5th starter is better than KC's 5th and better than Minnosota 5th and of course better than the Cubs 5th.

So Loaiza really IS the MVP of the team...

Tragg
08-13-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by kempsted
I hate to bring facts into the discussion of 5th starter but I am so tired of people discussing the automatic loss of the 5th starter. We are 10-11 in the games with the 5th starter!

Wright 6-6
Stewart 2-3
Porzio 1-2
Cotts 1-0

Heck we are only 11-12 with Garland starting and 12-13 with Colon starting, and 13-13 with Buehrle.

It is so stupid that people keep whining about the 5th starter. With Wright as our 5th our 5th starter is better than KC's 5th and better than Minnosota 5th and of course better than the Cubs 5th.
That's coincidence -look at the ERAs
I won't whine about the 5th starter because few teams if any have one and it's irrelevant in the playoffs and the price of pitchers, especially for these pirate and red pitchers, was ridiculous - we had more dire needs, like bats, which KW got.

Lip Man 1
08-13-2003, 02:51 PM
Excuse me...just wondering....

Since when does "scared sheetless" deserve cause to be edited?

That's sheetless not the other thing.

Thank You.

Lip

RKMeibalane
08-13-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Excuse me...just wondering....

Since when does "scared sheetless" deserve cause to be edited?

That's sheetless not the other thing.

Thank You.

Lip

I think someone probably thought the language filter was being bypassed, which is "a direct violation of WSI Penal Code, Section 9, Paragraph 3."

voodoochile
08-13-2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Excuse me...just wondering....

Since when does "scared sheetless" deserve cause to be edited?

That's sheetless not the other thing.

Thank You.

Lip

Give me a break, Lip. You were using a word that sounds just the same when read. You want an explanation, Read This (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21854).

RKMeibalane
08-13-2003, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Give me a break, Lip. You were using a word that sounds just the same when read. You want an explanation, Read This (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21854).

Just as I thought...

kempsted
08-13-2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
That's coincidence -look at the ERAs
I won't whine about the 5th starter because few teams if any have one and it's irrelevant in the playoffs and the price of pitchers, especially for these pirate and red pitchers, was ridiculous - we had more dire needs, like bats, which KW got.
OK, but it isn't really coincidence. Look at the 6 games we won when Wright pitched. He pitched well and didn't get the win for various reasons - we were tied when he went out in most cases.
The point is many people have said in this and other thread - Our 5th starter is such a problem because it is an automatic loss. That is obviously untrue.

kempsted
08-13-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
So Loaiza really IS the MVP of the team...
Absolutely. Every other aspect of our starting pitching is at 500. We have won 17 games Loaiza started and he has lost a couple of 1-0 games.

maurice
08-13-2003, 05:15 PM
Hopefully the more denser Sox fans will come around to the correct thinking shortly.

For future reference, if you plan on insulting someone's intelligence, try using proper grammar. It's hard to believe that this person has been paid actual U.S. currency to write. What a waste of bandwith.

MisterB
08-13-2003, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Garland started by coming straight from AA. Kip Wells got to the big leagues straight from AA. Barcelo, pre-injury. All around the league, top pitching prospects frequently go straight from AA to AAA. The biggest difference in the hitters from AA to AAA is generally they are older and have a little better plate discipline.

Frankly, for the Sox, with Charlotte's piddly dimensions, I prefer guys don't waste time in AAA if they can help it. Can be a huge confidence killer.

Garland was 4-8 with a 6.50 era straight out of AA, not what I'd call success.

Wells had a good 7 starts at the end of '99, but crapped out in the pennant race of 2000.

And in your reference to the bandbox our AAA club plays in: remember that the Barons play in a notorious pitcher's park, which makes our AA pitchers look better than they really are. (which makes what Jeremy Reed's doing down there even more impressive.)

doublem23
08-13-2003, 09:20 PM
Wasn't Garland pitching in AAA before he got called up in 2000?

doublem23
08-13-2003, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by maurice
For future reference, if you plan on insulting someone's intelligence, try using proper grammar. It's hard to believe that this person has been paid actual U.S. currency to write. What a waste of bandwith.

:gulp:

Someone else figured it out.

Lip Man 1
08-13-2003, 09:34 PM
Hey Maurice:

YOU never made any mistakes? Give me a break.

It was early in the morning when I typed that out.

Don't be jealous because people actually do pay me to hear and read what I think.

If somebody cared about what you have to say you'd get paid as well but I wouldn't hold my breath on THAT ever happening.

Lip

maurice
08-14-2003, 12:25 PM
Breathe freely, Lip. Not that it's particularly relevant, but I'm quite certain that I've been paid significantly more money to write than you have. Unlike your drivel, the merits of my paid work have very serious, real-world consequences.

BTW: I'm not the grammar police. (That's Prof. Nellie.) I have a policy of pointing out errors only when they are contained in a baseless insult made by a clod. That's where you came in.

Randar68
08-14-2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Hey Maurice:

YOU never made any mistakes? Give me a break.

It was early in the morning when I typed that out.

Don't be jealous because people actually do pay me to hear and read what I think.

If somebody cared about what you have to say you'd get paid as well but I wouldn't hold my breath on THAT ever happening.

Lip

Can you be more full of yourself? What an ass.

Randar68
08-14-2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by maurice
Breathe freely, Lip. Not that it's particularly relevant, but I'm quite certain that I've been paid significantly more money to write than you have. Unlike your drivel, the merits of my paid work have very serious, real-world consequences.

BTW: I'm not the grammar police. (That's Prof. Nellie.) I have a policy of pointing out errors only when they are contained in a baseless insult made by a clod. That's where you came in.


Nomination for Post of the Week.

RKMeibalane
08-14-2003, 01:17 PM
Okay, I think it's safe to say that some people are becoming a little too sensitive about minor issues. This is a baseball message board, ladies and gentlemen. It is meant to be a place where fans of the Chicago White Sox can share intelligent discussions of the ongoing baseball season. It is not supposed to be a forum for individuals to insult or degrade other members. That kind of behavior takes the fun out of the coming here.

I am not a moderator, but I believe I speak for them when I say that some people here need to watch what they say and how they say it. I would hate to see people getting banned because they couldn't restrain themselves from making personal comments or other derogatory remarks.

Thank you.

voodoochile
08-14-2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Okay, I think it's safe to say that some people are becoming a little too sensitive about minor issues. This is a baseball message board, ladies and gentlemen. It is meant to be a place where fans of the Chicago White Sox can share intelligent discussions of the ongoing baseball season. It is not supposed to be a forum for individuals to insult or degrade other members. That kind of behavior takes the fun out of the coming here.

I am not a moderator, but I believe I speak for them when I say that some people here need to watch what they say and how they say it. I would hate to see people getting banned because they couldn't restrain themselves from making personal comments or other derogatory remarks.

Thank you.

Thank you for saying it. I wasn't planning on getting involved in this old feud, but certainly having people tone down the insults wouldn't hurt either...