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RKMeibalane
08-12-2003, 01:28 AM
If the Sox had scored even once earlier in the game when they had several men on base, they would have won tonight. This is kind of crap that keeps teams out of the postseason.

Manuel's poor decision-making didn't help, either. Giving up ten runs to a team that is missing Troy Glaus, Darren Erstad, and Brad Fullmer is not acceptable. I shudder to think about what might have happened had those guys played tonight- we might have seen another 19-0 disaster.

Schoneweis has forgotten how to pitch. I don't know what happened to him, but he's getting lit up every time he goes out there. Of course, Manuel was the dolt who put him in against his old team, which is filled with players who know what kinds of pitches he likes throw.

fuzzy_patters
08-12-2003, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
If the Sox had scored even once earlier in the game when they had several men on base, they would have won tonight. This is kind of crap that keeps teams out of the postseason.

Manuel's poor decision-making didn't help, either. Giving up ten runs to a team that is missing Troy Glaus, Darren Erstad, and Brad Fullmer is not acceptable. I shudder to think about what might have happened had those guys played tonight- we might have seen another 19-0 disaster.

Schoneweis has forgotten how to pitch. I don't know what happened to him, but he's getting lit up every time he goes out there. Of course, Manuel was the dolt who put him in against his old team, which is filled with players who know what kinds of pitches he likes throw.

I respectfully disagree regarding Manual. I would prefer that he use guys like Schoneweis and Koch when we are behind a few runs, which is what Manual did tonight. We might not score again anyway, so we should save Marte and Gordon for when we are ahead. Since we only have two good relief pitchers, we will just have to suffer through games like this until Kenny Williams gives Manual some better arms.

LASOXFAN
08-12-2003, 01:51 AM
I have to agree, you can't bring in the A team when you're behind like that. What bothers me is sticking with him for so long and letting the game get out of reach. The sox were swinging the bats and knew they had a chance to come back. And they nearly did.

But it's time to pay the piper. The Sox had their chances to get fat on the soft teams like Tampa and Detroit but they didn't. The Angels just finished a terrible road trip. The Sox just let them up off the mat. This is going to be a grueling series. We'll be lucky to win 2 of 4. Very lucky.

FJA
08-12-2003, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
This is going to be a grueling series. We'll be lucky to win 2 of 4. Very lucky.

Before they went into their slump, the Angels were incredibly hot. Let's just hope we didn't pull them out of it.

DrCrawdad
08-12-2003, 02:12 AM
23 LEFT ON BASE!

ShoelessFred
08-12-2003, 02:31 AM
anytime you leave the bases loaded 3 times in a game, you DESERVE TO LOSE.

JJAustin69
08-12-2003, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
23 LEFT ON BASE! Incredible! How many LOB are possible, 27?

WhiteSox = Life
08-12-2003, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
23 LEFT ON BASE!

This has got to be 23 combined left on base.

DrCrawdad
08-12-2003, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by WhiteSox = Life
This has got to be 23 combined left on base.

You're right. The official LOB was 12.

xil357
08-12-2003, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
You're right. The official LOB was 12.

That is still despicable. I know that PK has been hitting better of late but leave it to him to hit into ANOTHER double play. Six runners left on by Paulie? That's too many for a whole team for a whole game IMHO. Leaving too many runners on base has been the bane of the Sox for many years.

Procol Harum
08-12-2003, 09:56 AM
That was brutal, last night--those situations just suck the life out of a team and energize the opposition (see the White Sox April thru June). And tonight the eternal quest for a 5th starter brings forth yet another brave hopeful--not a very promising scenario for a rebound.

chosk8
08-12-2003, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
23 LEFT ON BASE!

While this is a huge number of runners left on base, scoring 8 runs with Colon on the mound should be enough to win. Granted, he only let up 5 runs, but this is a watered-down Angels lineup. He has to be better than that. He's one of our studs. If we score 1, he has to keep them to 0.
Leaving the bases loaded not once, but 3 times, does give the other team a big boost.

SoxxoS
08-12-2003, 10:17 AM
I don't know about stats, but we are the WORST :

Bunting team in baseball

Scoring on singles from second base in baseball

Hitting sacrifice flies with the bases loaded in baseball.

DrCrawdad
08-12-2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I don't know about stats, but we are the WORST :

Bunting team in baseball

Scoring on singles from second base in baseball

Hitting sacrifice flies with the bases loaded in baseball.

No runners on base, the Sox hit fly balls. Put a runner on base, the Sox hit grounders.

TornLabrum
08-12-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
No runners on base, the Sox hit fly balls. Put a runner on base, the Sox hit grounders.

I don't know, but I think there may be a split between grounders and popups with men on especially with runners in scoring position and less than two out.

MisterB
08-12-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I don't know about stats, but we are the WORST :

Bunting team in baseball

Scoring on singles from second base in baseball

Hitting sacrifice flies with the bases loaded in baseball.

The Sox are 23rd on the majors in sac bunts, ahead of SEA, TB, BOS, NYY, OAK, TEX and TOR. Unfortunately I think we have attemped far more bunts than any of those teams.

And yes, the Sox have only 3 sac flies with the bases loaded, tied with the Angels for last in the majors. But Anaheim has had only 74 AB with the bases loaded while the Sox have had 98. :(:

Hangar18
08-12-2003, 11:06 AM
Ive mentioned this before here and there, but I DONT LIKE CARL EVERETT. He lollygagged on a Deep fly to LeftCenter, missed it badly, then did a Fake Crash into the wall. I know he got a couple of hits last nite, but they WERENT TIMELY, especially when he had the Bases Loaded. Its funny, we had the bases Loaded so many times, every batter, they would show a Graphic showing how great we are with the bases loaded, and how many grandslams Konerko, Valentin, Everett have, then they all promptly strike out, groundout, doubleplay us out of the inning.
That was aggravating, because early in the game I kept saying all those men left on are going to haunt us later in the game, boy was I right. We have a lot of STUPID HITTERS, guys that cant Situational Hit to save their lives. Konerko probably shouldve been pinch run for in the 7th or 8th. We cant play station to station baseball for too long........the KC's and Twins of the world are going to run all over us. IM aggravated that this Sox Offense has to get 4 singles to score a runner, while Everyone else needs One Hit. Case in point. We walk the .256 hitting Eckstein, he gets BUNTED Over quite nicely (though im not condoning bunting all the time, but how about hitting to the right side sometimes?) and he scores on ONE FREAKING HIT.
So in a one inning capsule...... One team gets 4 singles...... and scores ONE run, and leaves 3 men on base. the other team gets a WALK and one SINGLE, and leaves one man on base.
Yet they BOTH have ONE RUN EACH. That my friends, Is what aggravates me. That game last nite was Winnable, but the Everett-in-Center/Everett-sloppy-hitter/Sox-Bases-Loaded-Cant-Hit/Schoenweis-Sucks/Jerry-Manuel-cant-follow-bullpen-hunch Combination was too much for the Sox to swallow yesterday. NOTICE however, that they did manage to Situational hit ok in the 9th....little too late.

Clarkdog
08-12-2003, 11:22 AM
The plain and simple fact in last night's loss was that the Sox never executed when they had to, and the Angels did every single time. That is the way the Angels won the World Series last year.

The Angels haven't played well this season, their pitching has suffered. I don't expect to see that type of consistency through this series or when we see them at home.

We outhit them, showed some fire in the ninth when the game appeared out of hand. Timely hitting in one of those two bases loaded situations and we likely win this game. We are the better team.

Take a deep breath. Relax. Winning a series is preferred, but a split on the road is fine. A 4-3 west coast trip to kick off a seven game homestand is a good thing. 5-2 is better though (and still possible)

Lip Man 1
08-12-2003, 12:03 PM
Clarkdog says: The plain and simple fact in last night's loss was that the Sox never executed when they had to, and the Angels did every single time. That is the way the Angels won the World Series last year.

Kind of makes you wonder what the Sox work on (or DON'T work on) in spring training doesn't it?

Either practically EVERY player who has worn the major league uniform of the Sox the past five or so years is baseball stupid....or Manager Gandhi and his crack coaching staff can't teach very well.

I choose to think the latter case is closer to the truth.

Lip

ssang
08-12-2003, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Clarkdog says: The plain and simple fact in last night's loss was that the Sox never executed when they had to, and the Angels did every single time. That is the way the Angels won the World Series last year.

Kind of makes you wonder what the Sox work on (or DON'T work on) in spring training doesn't it?

Either practically EVERY player who has worn the major league uniform of the Sox the past five or so years is baseball stupid....or Manager Gandhi and his crack coaching staff can't teach very well.

I choose to think the latter case is closer to the truth.

Lip


Yeah, it continues to amaze me that year in and year out the White Sox seem to have AN UNBELIEVABLE amount of scoring opportunities....yet, they also seem to fail more than any other team in turning their opportunities into runs. Why? Why? Why? It's the most frustrating thing that I have ever expereinced. It has gotten to the point that I NEVER expect the Sox to score when they have runners on base. It doesn;t matter if there's no outs, one out, or two outs.....the Sox always seem to botch thier scoring chances. GODAMN KONERKO!!! He sucks and I hate hin in every way imaginable. :angry: :angry: :angry:

kempsted
08-12-2003, 12:42 PM
We certainly had missed opps last night but

Yeah, it continues to amaze me that year in and year out the White Sox seem to have AN UNBELIEVABLE amount of scoring opportunities....yet, they also seem to fail more than any other team in turning their opportunities into runs.

this is an illusion. You would say this of any team you followed if you followed them closely. This is always perspective. When we fail to score it is us not doing it, when they fail to score it is our pitcher pitching out of it. Since condensed games came from MLB I watch a lot of games. Every team has a lot of missed opportunities. Every team. I watch the Yankees do it, the Giants do it the braves do it. You only notice yours the most. There is no reality here. But yes we blew it last night. You don't get 3 bases loaded with less then one out and score only 3 runs from it and win much.

Clarkdog
08-12-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

Kind of makes you wonder what the Sox work on (or DON'T work on) in spring training doesn't it?

Either practically EVERY player who has worn the major league uniform of the Sox the past five or so years is baseball stupid....or Manager Gandhi and his crack coaching staff can't teach very well.

I choose to think the latter case is closer to the truth.

Lip [/B]

I'd agree Lip.

When called on for a sacrifice, the Angels delivered every time last night. Eckstein especially. It seems when the Sox need to execute a sacrifice - every time is an adventure. That isn't concidence - it's coaching.

Paulwny
08-12-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Clarkdog says: The plain and simple fact in last night's loss was that the Sox never executed when they had to, and the Angels did every single time. That is the way the Angels won the World Series last year.

Kind of makes you wonder what the Sox work on (or DON'T work on) in spring training doesn't it?

Either practically EVERY player who has worn the major league uniform of the Sox the past five or so years is baseball stupid....or Manager Gandhi and his crack coaching staff can't teach very well.

I choose to think the latter case is closer to the truth.

Lip

Apparently JM feels running his obstacle course in st is more important then teachings the basics of baseball.

gosox41
08-12-2003, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
If the Sox had scored even once earlier in the game when they had several men on base, they would have won tonight. This is kind of crap that keeps teams out of the postseason.

Manuel's poor decision-making didn't help, either. Giving up ten runs to a team that is missing Troy Glaus, Darren Erstad, and Brad Fullmer is not acceptable. I shudder to think about what might have happened had those guys played tonight- we might have seen another 19-0 disaster.

Schoneweis has forgotten how to pitch. I don't know what happened to him, but he's getting lit up every time he goes out there. Of course, Manuel was the dolt who put him in against his old team, which is filled with players who know what kinds of pitches he likes throw.

See my 'I don't like the Schoneweis trade' thread I started a few weeks ago. So far between Schoeneweis' pitching and JM's mismanaging they have combined to cost the Sox 2 games.
:(:

The Sox are 1 1/2 games out of first.

Bob

gosox41
08-12-2003, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
No runners on base, the Sox hit fly balls. Put a runner on base, the Sox hit grounders.

:walnuts
Are you referring to me. Give me another chance with the bases loaded and one out. I'll prove to you how highly overpaid I am.

Bob

gosox41
08-12-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by ssang
Yeah, it continues to amaze me that year in and year out the White Sox seem to have AN UNBELIEVABLE amount of scoring opportunities....yet, they also seem to fail more than any other team in turning their opportunities into runs. Why? Why? Why? It's the most frustrating thing that I have ever expereinced. It has gotten to the point that I NEVER expect the Sox to score when they have runners on base. It doesn;t matter if there's no outs, one out, or two outs.....the Sox always seem to botch thier scoring chances. GODAMN KONERKO!!! He sucks and I hate hin in every way imaginable. :angry: :angry: :angry:

The Sox had their 3 week hot streak where the lived for the long ball. Now they are dying by it because of their inability to play solid fundamental baseball.

Is this team really different?

Bob

SoxxoS
08-12-2003, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
The Sox had their 3 week hot streak where the lived for the long ball. Now they are dying by it because of their inability to play solid fundamental baseball.

Is this team really different?

Bob

They really aren't "dying," Bob. We have only lost one series since the all-star break.

gosox41
08-12-2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
They really aren't "dying," Bob. We have only lost one series since the all-star break.

That's been about 3 weeks I've been talking about, maybe a little more.

Let's hope the Sox come on strong tonight. Yesterday was a must win game because Cotts is making his debut tonight. The Sox had plenty of opportunities to win and failed. Have to hope that Cotts steps it up in tonight's game.

I'd hate to fall behind 0-2 to the Angels this series. I figure the Sox need to go 9-5 over then 14 games against Texas and Anaheim.

Bob

Foulke You
08-12-2003, 04:20 PM
Everyone needs to take a different approach to watching this Sox offense. I've given up hoping the Sox will scratch out a base hit in the hole, sac bunt, or sac fly. It isn't going to happen. Not with this bunch. This team is built for the long ball. The bomb. Homers. "Baseball's special moment." Whatever you want to call it. This team scores runs when they are clobbering it over the fence and smacking it into the gap off the wall for extra bases.

The power offense is something they've done well recently and combined with solid pitching from our starters, put us right in the thick of the AL Central Division race. The power game is what works for the Sox. Small ball doesn't cut it for us because of the type of team we have. There is nothing wrong with this type of offense if you are playing to the strengths of the type of team you have built. No sense playing small ball if you don't have those type of players.

Lee, Thomas, Ordonez, Konerko, Valentin, and Everett. All of these guys are capable of 30 HR seasons. We don't have a bunch of Ecksteins and Ichiros on our team. We have a bunch of sluggers so I expect them to play that type of offensive game if we are to win. When you have a power hitting team, you are going to have some games like last night where the big HR just didn't come at the right time. Daubach came awful close to a pinch hit Grand Slam in the 8th. Valentin just missed one earlier also. Bottom line is, we scored 8 runs and that should have been enough to win. Right now, the bullpen is scaring me more than our offense is. Sit back, relax, strap it down, and enjoy the HRs and high powered offense because that is what it is going to take for the Sox to win this division.

Lip Man 1
08-12-2003, 09:11 PM
Just wondering....

What happens when the "power game", "long ball", "tater stomping," or whatever you want to call it disappers? (like in the playoffs against top flight pitching)

Is it to much to ask a highly skilled baseball athlete to be able to lay down a bunt that nerdy kids are able to do on high school and college teams? or hit the ball the other way once in a while to advance a runner or God forbid, get a sacrifice fly once every so often?

Come on these are professional athletes not just long ball bashers. With respect what you're saying is a cop out.

Lip

kempsted
08-13-2003, 12:30 PM
Just wondering....
What happens when the "power game", "long ball", "tater stomping," or whatever you want to call it disappers? (like in the playoffs against top flight pitching)


Well if last night is any indication they score 10 runs. :)

gosox41
08-13-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Just wondering....

What happens when the "power game", "long ball", "tater stomping," or whatever you want to call it disappers? (like in the playoffs against top flight pitching)

Is it to much to ask a highly skilled baseball athlete to be able to lay down a bunt that nerdy kids are able to do on high school and college teams? or hit the ball the other way once in a while to advance a runner or God forbid, get a sacrifice fly once every so often?

Come on these are professional athletes not just long ball bashers. With respect what you're saying is a cop out.

Lip

You mean like it disappeared for the first half of the season??

Bob

Foulke You
08-13-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Just wondering....

What happens when the "power game", "long ball", "tater stomping," or whatever you want to call it disappers? (like in the playoffs against top flight pitching)

Is it to much to ask a highly skilled baseball athlete to be able to lay down a bunt that nerdy kids are able to do on high school and college teams? or hit the ball the other way once in a while to advance a runner or God forbid, get a sacrifice fly once every so often?

Come on these are professional athletes not just long ball bashers. With respect what you're saying is a cop out.

Lip

I think you are misunderstanding me here Lip. I'm not making excuses for our team. I've just given up expecting the small ball element to surface which is something people here are having a hard time doing. This team isn't built for it and doesn't do it well. The small ball did surface last night for a change but I believe that was the exception and not the rule. Lord knows, I'd love to see them be able to advance runners along and not hit into rally killing DPs with the bases loaded on a regular basis. But after watching the 2003 Sox since April, I don't torture myself waiting for small ball to happen. I sit and wait for the long ball. I have come to expect it with this club and lately it has been working so I plan on enjoying the ride as the fireworks supply gets drained at 35th and Shields.

Whether you or I or anyone else on this board thinks we need to do the "little things" to win, doesn't change the fact that our team doesn't do them well. The fact remains that this club lives and dies by the home run power game and solid starting pitching. How far this style of play carries us into October remains to be seen but it is nice to be in a pennant race regardless of how we're getting there. Right now, I'll take my chances with 3 ace quality starting pitchers and a high powered offense in a playoff series.