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Lip Man 1
08-11-2003, 09:33 PM
Teddy Greenstein had an interesting response to a question from a fan in his latest Q & A column. I pass it along since we have had discussions on the boards about whether the Sox have changed their "attitude" towards winning ect...

"Looking ahead a bit (enthusiastically), do we have any hope of keeping this lineup/pitching staff together next year? Specifically, re-signing Loaiza, Colon, and Roberto Alomar? Maybe add a closer that's not a dud like Koch (I'm still bitter about the Koch/Foulke trade)? Or is it outside the Sox's budget to accomplish all this? --Mel Schramek, Pacific Grove, Calif.

The Sox have a club option on Loaiza. It will be worth $4 million, assuming he makes three more starts this season, and the Sox would be ruled clinically insane not to pick it up. Colon and Alomar are bigger question marks. The Sox's payroll is at $51 million, ninth from the bottom. Magglio Ordonez gets a $5 million raise, Paul Konerko gets another $1.75 mil, Carlos Lee and Mark Buehrle stand to get big-time boosts through arbitration.

So here's the major question: Will the Sox significantly increase their payroll next season or will they continue to pretend that they're a small-market team? GM Ken Williams has said that it will take a deep run in the postseason to change the culture of the Sox--i.e. the season-ticket base. So the better the Sox do this season, the better the chances the Sox will try to re-sign Colon and Alomar."

Lip

RKMeibalane
08-11-2003, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Teddy Greenstein had an interesting response to a question from a fan in his latest Q & A column. I pass it along since we have had discussions on the boards about whether the Sox have changed their "attitude" towards winning ect...

"Looking ahead a bit (enthusiastically), do we have any hope of keeping this lineup/pitching staff together next year? Specifically, re-signing Loaiza, Colon, and Roberto Alomar? Maybe add a closer that's not a dud like Koch (I'm still bitter about the Koch/Foulke trade)? Or is it outside the Sox's budget to accomplish all this? --Mel Schramek, Pacific Grove, Calif.

The Sox have a club option on Loaiza. It will be worth $4 million, assuming he makes three more starts this season, and the Sox would be ruled clinically insane not to pick it up. Colon and Alomar are bigger question marks. The Sox's payroll is at $51 million, ninth from the bottom. Magglio Ordonez gets a $5 million raise, Paul Konerko gets another $1.75 mil, Carlos Lee and Mark Buehrle stand to get big-time boosts through arbitration.

So here's the major question: Will the Sox significantly increase their payroll next season or will they continue to pretend that they're a small-market team? GM Ken Williams has said that it will take a deep run in the postseason to change the culture of the Sox--i.e. the season-ticket base. So the better the Sox do this season, the better the chances the Sox will try to re-sign Colon and Alomar."

Lip

The Sox need to re-sign as many players as they can. As I see it, they should do everything in their power to keep the following players, minimum:

Frank Thomas
Bartolo Colon
Roberto Alomar
Esteban Loaiza

The situation with Everett could go either way. I don't know what his contract status is, but if the Sox can't reach an agreement with him, they should try to trade him for additional pitching- maybe this trade could help bring in a closer to make up for the Koch disaster.

I included Frank on the list because he is a free-agent, though he has indicated that he wants to come back next season.

If the Sox don't hang onto Colon or Alomar, they're in trouble. The same goes for Loaiza. This team, as it stands right now, has a strong pitching staff. If they can't bring everyone back, then the pitching staff goes back to looking like it did last season, and that was a disaster. Danny Wright has regressed this year, when many people thought he would be able to hold down the number five spot in the rotation.

KW has shown that he is willing to make a few trades in order to fill holes. The Sox need to find someone to complete the starting rotation, in the event that Wright doesn't turn things around. A lot will depend on how Wright fares working out of the bullpen. If he's effective there, he might be able to step and fill the closer role. If not, then he's going to be gone.

Daver
08-11-2003, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
The Sox need to re-sign as many players as they can. As I see it, they should do everything in their power to keep the following players, minimum:

Frank Thomas
Bartolo Colon
Roberto Alomar
Esteban Loaiza

The situation with Everett could go either way. I don't know what his contract status is, but if the Sox can't reach an agreement with him, they should try to trade him for additional pitching- maybe this trade could help bring in a closer to make up for the Koch disaster.

KW has shown that he is willing to make a few trades in order to fill holes. The Sox need to find someone to complete the starting rotation, in the event that Wright doesn't turn things around. A lot will depend on how Wright fares working out of the bullpen. If he's effective there, he might be able to step and fill the closer role. If not, then he's going to be gone.

There is a reason Loaiza was offered a team option based on numbers,if he could match the numbers in his contract the Sox were going to pick it up.

Everett is a FA,if they offer him arbitration they will recieve a "B" draft pick for him if he walks as a FA.

Roberto Alomar and his agent have already begun contract discussions with the team because Robbie would like to return next season,and possibly longer,something tells me that a deal will be worked out before the FA period begins.

Frank has put up numbers and shown that he can play first well enough to interest some NL teams,we will see what level his loyalty to the White Sox really is in this offseason,he has an out in his contract that allows him to pursue free agency if he chooses,though I think the team would excercise the club option on his services.

Time will tell.

34 Inch Stick
08-12-2003, 09:37 AM
Robbie may be cheaper than you realize. He is an aging second baseman with 0 (and that number is almost literally zero) power and some questions about his attitude. He still has it on defense but for how long. I like what he has done for the Sox but I don't think he will be an incredibly hot free agent prospect.

Frank has a similar situation. If he takes his option for next year he gets 6 million guaranteed. Will a soon to be 36 year old home run hitter with low RBI numbers and a .265 average be able to make more than 6 million on the open market? Frank may play this one as loyalty but the truth is it is not worth the risk to him not to exercise the option.

Loiza is a no brainer. I think they should be looking to tear up the contract and go 3 years with him.

Colon is gone under almost every scenario I can think of.

I do not want Carl Everett on this team next year. I'm not sure I want him on this team this year.

SoxxoS
08-12-2003, 10:02 AM
I would be more than happy to let Valentin go, and take some of that money elsewhere. Hummel is having a nice rebound year, and I see he is playing some SS in the minors. It is up to our scouts to decide if he has the range to play SS in the majors.

Tim Hummel-
.290 avg. .356 OBP-.459 SLG- 73 K's and 43 walks- 14 homers (wow, didnt know he had pop)- 8 SB. .815 OPS. 13 errors.
Played 23 games at SS and 93 at 3B.

SoxxoS
08-12-2003, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
Colon is gone under almost every scenario I can think of.

Here is a scenario-We make the playoffs and KW convinces JR to open his pocketbook. Definitely feasable.

gosox41
08-12-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I would be more than happy to let Valentin go, and take some of that money elsewhere. Hummel is having a nice rebound year, and I see he is playing some SS in the minors. It is up to our scouts to decide if he has the range to play SS in the majors.

Tim Hummel-
.290 avg. .356 OBP-.459 SLG- 73 K's and 43 walks- 14 homers (wow, didnt know he had pop)- 8 SB. .815 OPS. 13 errors.
Played 23 games at SS and 93 at 3B.

Good to see Hummel is turning things around.

Bob

MisterB
08-12-2003, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I would be more than happy to let Valentin go, and take some of that money elsewhere. Hummel is having a nice rebound year, and I see he is playing some SS in the minors. It is up to our scouts to decide if he has the range to play SS in the majors.
at SS and 93 at 3B.

The Sox have already decided that Hummel's not an everyday shortstop. I think he's odds-on favorite to replace Graffy as utility infielder next year, though.

voodoochile
08-12-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
The Sox have already decided that Hummel's not an everyday shortstop. I think he's odds-on favorite to replace Graffy as utility infielder next year, though.

Won't be overly surprised if Graff is the starting SS next year.

longshot7
08-12-2003, 04:54 PM
I don't know if I like that about Graffy - but as for alternatives, I have no clue.

and 34, what's your beef with Carl?

34 Inch Stick
08-12-2003, 05:23 PM
He is absolutely not a centerfielder anymore (as evidenced by yesterday's play in the second inning). I know he made a great catch versus Oakland. However, I have seen a lot of balls dropping in front of him for hits and yesterday I saw a difficult but makable catch butchered by him.

The scouting report on him coming here said the same thing so it is something we knew (or should have known) going into the deal. I don't think we gain much with him over what Rowand is giving us right now.

jeremyb1
08-12-2003, 06:11 PM
if i'm the sox i deal carlos next offseason. many seem to think he's our mvp but his walk rate has fallen dramtically. his .828 ops is above average but not outstanding and his .328 obp is average at best. reed continues to destroy AA and could most likely fill in for carlos with out a huge dropoff in production while adding important on base skills at the top of the lineup.

by subtracting jose's contract and carlos' salary we save close to 10 million. unfortunately, in all liklihood, the raises to frank, laoiza paully, maggs, and buehrle will eat up all of that ten million and then some. however, colon is still being paid 9 million this season so that leaves a fair amount of money to resign him. if the budget can be stretched 5-7 million, we could afford to resign colon in my opinion as long as carlos' and jose's deals come off the books.

Hangar18
08-12-2003, 06:31 PM
Can you imagine if we'd have swapped Millwood for Lee ?
I like Caballo, a lot. maybe we lose Konerko and have Lee DH.

RKMeibalane
08-12-2003, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Can you imagine if we'd have swapped Millwood for Lee ?
I like Caballo, a lot. maybe we lose Konerko and have Lee DH.

The Sox should try to move Konerko or Lee in order to upgrade at shortstop or centerfield. Everett could easily slide over to left if Lee is traded, and he could also become the DH if Konerko is gone, opening the door for Frank to play first base.

Jose Valentin has been a big part of this ballclub since 2000. He plays hard every day, and he's not afraid to speak his mind if he thinks that something isn't right, as evidenced by his comments about Manuel's tinkering. However, Valentin may find himself with a reduced role next season, or he may be off the team entirely. If the Sox can find someone interested in him, they should at least consider trading him, especially if they can accquire more pitching.

Lip Man 1
08-12-2003, 08:45 PM
It will be an interesting, intreging off season won't it?

Perhaps the most unsettled for the fans since the winter of 94 / 95 when fans were wondering if the Sox would ever return and in what shape they'd be in.

Lip

RKMeibalane
08-12-2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
It will be an interesting, intreging off season won't it?

Perhaps the most unsettled for the fans since the winter of 94 / 95 when fans were wondering if the Sox would ever return and in what shape they'd be in.

Lip

The 1995 season was... strange, for several reasons. First of all, John Kruk was brought in to bat cleanup and be the designated hitter. But he retired after singling during a Sunday afternoon game in Baltimore.

Gene Lamont showed that he has no clue how to manage. He was fired a few weeks into the season.

Frank Thomas replaced the clubhouse ping-pong table with picnic tables and furniture. I wonder if any of these tables was the one that Ken Williams knocked over when he called the players bitches and mother****ers.

Hangar18
08-13-2003, 09:10 AM
Carl Everett. man, what is it about that guy I dont like? His terrible batting style that makes it hard for him to adjust to pitches?

Tragg
08-13-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
I do not want Carl Everett on this team next year. I'm not sure I want him on this team this year.

What does everyone have against Carl Everett? He has a OBP of .385 with the Sox and a pretty good one all year long - he can hit and get on base. He hasn't been disruptive. He's done a real good job for us.
Is he a CF? Not really, but the best we have; we have little outfield depth as it is. Now he makes too much money and needs about a $4 mill pay cut.
We need a CF, then a SS who can get on base; and a 2b, unless alomar can take a big pay cut as well.

voodoochile
08-13-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
What does everyone have against Carl Everett? He has a OBP of .385 with the Sox and a pretty good one all year long - he can hit and get on base. He hasn't been disruptive. He's done a real good job for us.
Is he a CF? Not really, but the best we have; we have little outfield depth as it is. Now he makes too much money and needs about a $4 mill pay cut.
We need a CF, then a SS who can get on base; and a 2b, unless alomar can take a big pay cut as well.

Thank you...

I don't know why people hate Carl so much, or why people think Rowand is a better player than he is. Yeah, Carl has lost a step from when he is younger, but his attitude, effort and leadership have been excellent since coming here.

Here are some random stats from his file...

Last 7 days his OPS is 1.443 (not bad at all)

OPS with runners on or scoring position is 1.011 - that's for the season, but wouldn't be surprised to find out it is similar here in Chicago. Over all it is .822 with the Sox and has obviously been rising.

His average with the Sox is second on the team at .303

No one on the Sox takes a pitch as well as Carl. He does whatever it takes to get on base and that means standing still and letting the ball hit him when they throw it inside. The rest of these guys act like the ball is a grenade lobbed at their head...

The man is a gamer and has been a big part of our recent consistency...

VaSoxfan
08-13-2003, 12:17 PM
Good post Voodo. I also have been in the Everett camp since he got here. Much talk was made about his negative attitude, but that got left in Boston apparently and didn't even surface in Texas. He's a consistent, solid hitter, good for a good average and 18-20 HRs a year with a good amount of RBIs too. Now I know he isn't the best fielder, but he tries hard. He had those two great catches against the A's this weekend.

I don't have any issues with him, this team has weaker links elsewhere. Rowand is a pretty good fielder, but at the plate he's done nothing to impress me in his time here. Aside from a good June and part of July, he stunk all year at the plate, really stunk. Everett is consistently solid, can bring power, and his switch-hitting is a bonus.

Plus, Hawk and DJ seem to think him and Alomar have really taken on some leadership roles with this team. I was really impressed with his interview Sunday.

I'm more concerned with guys like Crede and Valentin, who have a sizable amount of errors, and are routinely batting in the low .200s. Valentin seems like he has one decent game every ten or so. This weekend vs Oakland it seemed like he was striking out and leaving guys on base every time up.

voodoochile
08-13-2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by VaSoxfan
Plus, Hawk and DJ seem to think him and Alomar have really taken on some leadership roles with this team. I was really impressed with his interview Sunday.


I think that is obvious just from watching them play. They approach the game differently than the Sox who have been here all season. I think their on-field leadership is one of the primary reasons the Sox have been playing better recently. Notice the more consistent at bats by Maggs and Lee since they got here.

gosox41
08-13-2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Can you imagine if we'd have swapped Millwood for Lee ?
I like Caballo, a lot. maybe we lose Konerko and have Lee DH.

Konerko would be my first choice of players to trade (right after Koch.) I just don't think many teams want him. Lee may have to be traded. I bet the Sox could find a good, young pitcher for Lee and solve the 5th starter problem.

On that same not, I would trade Lee and offer Everett arbitration. If Everett accepts, I'd pay him his $7 mill. and make him the left fielder. If he leaves, I'd take the 2 draft picks and take my chances on finding a LFer in the free agent market and in Jeremy Reed.

Bob

34 Inch Stick
08-13-2003, 12:49 PM
Just bide your time with Paully. Hopefully he will have a great first half next year and then you trade him when he is at the top of his market.