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View Full Version : It is time for the optimists to speak up


Bucktown
08-10-2003, 11:39 PM
It seems like some people are having as much trouble with the team's success as they were having with its early failure. Dudes, lay back and enjoy it (apologies to Bobby Knight).

I really don't care to here what management is doing wrong when the team is the hottest team in baseball and near or in first place.

So I am calling for a boycott of the following phrases:

Tinker, tinkering or tinkerer
5th starter
Any mention of the teams lack of success since the 59 World Series
Any other whining and complaining during a time we should be celebrating

sox_fan_forever
08-10-2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
So I am calling for a boycott of the following phrases:

Tinker, tinkering or tinkerer



Yes! We can still use "tinkerer(er)!" :D:

doublem23
08-10-2003, 11:41 PM
We're Sox fans... We wouldn't be good ones unless we feared the worst. :smile:

That said, I do agree... While a certain level of pessimism is to be expected, I still think there are a few around here who would probably rather see the Sox lose so they can be proven right (you know who you are).

Go Sox. **** the Royals!

flo-B-flo
08-10-2003, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
It seems like some people are having as much trouble with the team's success as they were having with its early failure. Dudes, lay back and enjoy it (apologies to Bobby Knight).

I really don't care to here what management is doing wrong when the team is the hottest team in baseball and near or in first place.

So I am calling for a boycott of the following phrases:

Tinker, tinkering or tinkerer
5th starter
Any mention of the teams lack of success since the 59 World Series
Any other whining and complaining during a time we should be celebrating
here 'friggen here. Shut up and enjoy the ride wherever it may take us. GO-GO SOX!!

pudge
08-10-2003, 11:57 PM
I think it shows what a pathetic history we've had if we consider being 1/2 game behind the Royals as something to enjoy. This season has been far from a great ride, and unless we can win a friggin' play-off game this year, I won't really consider it a great ride. Sorry. But I'm enjoying this momentary smooth patch during what has been a rocky 2003 experience. Go Neal Cotts!

Lip Man 1
08-10-2003, 11:59 PM
I'm enjoying the winning but there still is a LONG way to go isn't there? (and it's not like the Sox are exactly in first is it?)

Very few folks got as excited as I did when the Sox actually looked like they were going to try to win instead of having another White Flag sale but they still have problems and needs.

Don't stop now Sox management, don't start chiseling over money.

SOLVE the problems while you still have the chance, doing it in September when you're three games back is to late.

The Royals and Twins are NOT going to go away and die.

Lip

soxwon
08-11-2003, 12:24 AM
im a season ticket holder in the bleachers sec 164, everyone has a right to there opinion i agree, and you have a right to hout at players within reason.
however today there were 3 older SOX FANS, shouting at CARL EVERETT calling him CAROL and saying he wears a dress, and he hasnt done crap since joing us.
This irks me, we are in the midst of an great streak of playing and certain fans still get on there own players, just be quiet and enjoy it now.
yes ive been frustrated with Konerko early but hes doing great now, same with Frank but hes ok too.
Everett did come up with a big hit today, and the fans kept quiet for awhile. but then the CAROL taunts came back.
Everett made probably the CATCH OF THE YEAR the other night stealing a homerun away.
i think hes done fine.
i just cant figure out why CERTAIN Sox fans still ride there WINNING PLAYERS.

TornLabrum
08-11-2003, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by soxwon
im a season ticket holder in the bleachers sec 164, everyone has a right to there opinion i agree, and you have a right to hout at players within reason.
however today there were 3 older SOX FANS, shouting at CARL EVERETT calling him CAROL and saying he wears a dress, and he hasnt done crap since joing us.
This irks me, we are in the midst of an great streak of playing and certain fans still get on there own players, just be quiet and enjoy it now.
yes ive been frustrated with Konerko early but hes doing great now, same with Frank but hes ok too.
Everett did come up with a big hit today, and the fans kept quiet for awhile. but then the CAROL taunts came back.
Everett made probably the CATCH OF THE YEAR the other night stealing a homerun away.
i think hes done fine.
i just cant figure out why CERTAIN Sox fans still ride there WINNING PLAYERS.

I think I was more irked by the dolt in front of me who during the National Anthem today started whistling at "the rockets' red glare." Back in the '50s that was considered to be disrespectful and you probably would end up being labeled as a pinko, if not an outright Red.

captain54
08-11-2003, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by Bucktown

I really don't care to hear what management is doing wrong when the team is the hottest team in baseball and near or in first place.



well I care that if we were in any other division except the NL Central there wouldnt be much to be optimistic about except for the recent hot streak....


people are pessimistic probably because they have been Sox fans for a while and are sick of losing, and have been down this path before, only to come up empty handed....

I'm optimistic, but I would call it guarded optimism....we haven't won a damn thing yet and really should be at least 5 or 6 games in front....

VeeckAsInWreck
08-11-2003, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by soxwon
i just cant figure out why CERTAIN Sox fans still ride there WINNING PLAYERS.

Yeah, dude I agree. I have weekend season tix in sec.161, and some guy sitting in front of me was just yapping away about how bad Jose Valentin is to the team. He was saying that his .235 AVG is just bad for the team and that he shouldn't be allowed to play on the major league level.

I am sure that some will agree with that guy about Jose. However, I feel that Jose is just as valuable to the team as any of the other 24 guys on the team. Sure, he is hitting in the .230's, but, Valentin is a clutch player and a team leader. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have A-Rod on the team, but Jose Valentin is a guy the Sox need right now. That is just my opinion.

Bucktown
08-11-2003, 03:17 AM
Allow me to add to the list:
Mentions about being in the weakest league
Insisting that the Sox have to win a play-off game before they prove anything
Complaining about our "pathetic history" (see the WS reference above)
Implying that we don't have the players to get this thing done and we need to spend like a drunken Steinbrenner to win

Why is everyone convinced this team has a losing history? Since 1990 where do the Sox rank in number of Wins among the 26 teams?

Yankees (1209)
Braves (1136)
Indians (1077)
White Sox (1075)


I should have waited a week, we would have been in 3rd on that list. How can anyone claim this team hasn't done what it has needed to do to win? The only problem is that things have not lined up for them to be successful in the post-season.

I think that will change this year. The Sox have 3 great starters and great bats. That is the recipe for success. I love the fact that we are peaking late, as opposed to limping in like we did in 2000. While others may consider that an excuse to complain, I think it is a huge benefit for this team.

pudge
08-11-2003, 03:40 AM
Originally posted by Bucktown

Why is everyone convinced this team has a losing history? Since 1990 where do the Sox rank in number of Wins among the 26 teams?

Yankees (1209)
Braves (1136)
Indians (1077)
White Sox (1075)


[/B]

I'm glad you brought that up, because I agree that the Sox were a great franchise in the '90s, the problem is '94 and '97 remain very dark clouds for this franchise.

My biggest problem with 2003 is that we've pissed away a majority of this season. This Sox team should be a LOCK for the play-offs, not fighting for our lives until September 30th. And believe me, I'm worried about the Twins easy schedule, this is going to be a dog fight until the bitter end.

CLR01
08-11-2003, 04:32 AM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
Valentin is a clutch player and a team leader. Don't get me wrong,

Ahhhh....i am so sick of that argument. Team leader my ass. What has he lead this team to in the last 3 years other that corpse ball and a .500 record? If thats the best leader we have we are in trouble. Unfortunately the sox have no other options this year so ride him until the season is over, send him a thank you card and be done with him for good.

Jurr
08-11-2003, 06:09 AM
KW is doing a great job this year, to add to the praise directed to the Sox. Let's analyze:

1.)This was a team in desperate need need of leadership. It needed some guys that have done some winning in their careers and aren't afraid to speak up. Enter Robbie Alomar and Carl Everett. Robbie's not that much of a talker, but he brings a confidence to this team that was very much lacking. He solidifies the middle of the defense, can do the small things like dropping a bunt and pestering the pitcher once he gets on (e.g. Sunday when C.Lee hit the triple), and he seems to enjoy being here.
Carl is the talker....he doesn't let guys get down over bad AB's or bad losses for that matter. He speaks up and provides leadership, and lo and behold, he's starting to bring the bat and glove to the ballpark!!!
2.)Pitching: Bringing in Bartolo and E-Lo have been huge for the Sox. We now have a three man rotation for (fingers crossed) a playoff run. Who would have thought that Loaiza would have come up this huge? As the Trib said, "This is revenge for the Wells and Ritchie deals"....Remember...he also brought in Damaso Marte and Tom Gordon. If Billy Koch (God Willing) can get his stuff back, we'll have one helluva bullpen, especially when Dan Wright joins the mix.
3.)Belief: This is the biggest one, in my opinion. KW believed in the talent he had put together, and that is saying a ton since nobody else thought this club had a chance. He kept the manager, avoided the fire sale, and waited out the storm. Now, his plans are coming to fruition, and this team looks like a playoff contender (and, dare I say, World Series Contender?)
We'll take a playoff berth for the moment. If we get there, I think it's going to be tough to match a Buehrle, Colon, and Loaiza rotation. But, let's just get there first. All in all, though, I think KW has done a lot for this franchise this season, and it's good to be led by someone that actually gives a damn about winning, not the bottom line.

TornLabrum
08-11-2003, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Bucktown
Allow me to add to the list:
Mentions about being in the weakest league
Insisting that the Sox have to win a play-off game before they prove anything
Complaining about our "pathetic history" (see the WS reference above)
Implying that we don't have the players to get this thing done and we need to spend like a drunken Steinbrenner to win

Why is everyone convinced this team has a losing history? Since 1990 where do the Sox rank in number of Wins among the 26 teams?

Yankees (1209)
Braves (1136)
Indians (1077)
White Sox (1075)


I should have waited a week, we would have been in 3rd on that list. How can anyone claim this team hasn't done what it has needed to do to win? The only problem is that things have not lined up for them to be successful in the post-season.



The object is to get to the World Series. We haven't in 44 years. If you're satisfied with that, fine.

adsit
08-11-2003, 08:49 AM
Yeah, the Yanks, Braves, Indians and White Sox have won a lot of games in the past 13 years. Look at what else these teams have won...

Since 1990
Yankees; 5-0 in ALCS, 4-1 in World Series
Braves; 5-4 in NLCS, 1-4 in World Series
Indians; 2-1 in ALCS, 0-2 in World Series
White Sox; 0-1 in ALCS

Where is all the frustration, cynicism and negativity coming from?

TornLabrum
08-11-2003, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by adsit
Yeah, the Yanks, Braves, Indians and White Sox have won a lot of games in the past 13 years. Look at what else these teams have won...

Since 1990
Yankees; 5-0 in ALCS, 4-1 in World Series
Braves; 5-4 in NLCS, 1-4 in World Series
Indians; 2-1 in ALCS, 0-2 in World Series
White Sox; 0-1 in ALCS

Where is all the frustration, cynicism and negativity coming from?

I don't know. I just can't seem to figure it out. But we know one thing for sure: this year is going to be different!

Bucktown
08-11-2003, 06:24 PM
I totally reject the notion that two teams did a good job each year (the WS teams) and the other 24 were complete failures with incompetent management.

I love the Sox. I love what they did in the strike shortened season, I love what they did in 2000. I AM NOT A VICTIM.

The funny thing about stating that your team is a failure until they make it to the WS is that you have to make a 180 so fast at the moment that it happens you look like an idiot for a season worth of whining. I am on the bandwagon and it is filling up. There may not be room when the Sox are already in the playoffs, or one game away from winning the first playoff series.

voodoochile
08-11-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
I totally reject the notion that two teams did a good job each year (the WS teams) and the other 24 were complete failures with incompetent management.

I love the Sox. I love what they did in the strike shortened season, I love what they did in 2000. I AM NOT A VICTIM.

The funny thing about stating that your team is a failure until they make it to the WS is that you have to make a 180 so fast at the moment that it happens you look like an idiot for a season worth of whining. I am on the bandwagon and it is filling up. There may not be room when the Sox are already in the playoffs, or one game away from winning the first playoff series.

The fictional bandwagon will be filled up? You won't let people on because they don't meet your expectations as Sox fans? Too funny. Like 98% of the posters on this board aren't diehard fans who have been on the bandwagon for most of their lives.

You are right, success isn't strictly about making the WS, but when your team hasn't done it in 43+ years, it gets old. When they haven't won one since WWI was in progress, it gets really old. When your owner is constantly doing the things JR does and then blaming the fans for the lack of team support, it is downright sad. Fans have a right to demand more from the Sox. The fans who post at WSI and other Sox sites have even more right, because they clearly are the ones who care as much as anyone else.

I agree on one thing. I loved the Bears 2001 season, regardless of the crappy playoff experience. It was a fun year, but that was because they hadn't done anything in a while and it came out of nowhere. The core of this team made the playoffs in 2000 and hasn't lived up to expectations since. Is it really so wrong for Sox fans to want them to put-up or shut-up?

Lip Man 1
08-11-2003, 09:53 PM
Hear, hear....

Interspaced around all that "winning" in the 90's were also the dreadful years of 95,97,98 and 99.

I guess some folks forgot about them didn't they? Must have been because of all those playoff appearances practically guaranteed by the owner in the wake of the White Flag embarassment.

Lip