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Lip Man 1
08-07-2003, 12:04 PM
From today's Daily Southtown:

"The fans here have got to get a clue sometimes," one player commented. "Give the man the benefit of the doubt."

Just a few comments....

Whoever said this didn't have the stones to let his name be used. That's totally gutless.

Considering that at least two players (who have gone on the record) have critisized Manager Gandhi's handling of the pitching / lineup situation and that this club has underachieved since July 2000, I think Sox fans have becommed conditioned to expecting screw ups by the Manager and team.

Maybe this player needs to give Sox fans, "the benefit of the doubt," until they actually do something like you know, making the playoffs, winning the division, or starting out strong from Opening Day instead of always when they are either out of the race or until the second half of the season.

If he doesn' t like the way Sox fans react, then do something about it on the field, instead of popping off without using a name.

Lip

JJAustin69
08-07-2003, 12:12 PM
The time for benefit of the doubt has passed. That is the reality of the situation.

hold2dibber
08-07-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
From today's Daily Southtown:

"The fans here have got to get a clue sometimes," one player commented. "Give the man the benefit of the doubt."

Just a few comments....

Whoever said this didn't have the stones to let his name be used. That's totally gutless.

Considering that at least two players (who have gone on the record) have critisized Manager Gandhi's handling of the pitching / lineup situation and that this club has underachieved since July 2000, I think Sox fans have becommed conditioned to expecting screw ups by the Manager and team.

Maybe this player needs to give Sox fans, "the benefit of the doubt," until they actually do something like you know, making the playoffs, winning the division, or starting out strong from Opening Day instead of always when they are either out of the race or until the second half of the season.

If he doesn' t like the way Sox fans react, then do something about it on the field, instead of popping off without using a name.

Lip

I've always maintained that booing the home team is stupid (except for lack of effort), and only serves to piss off the very players who we all want to see succeed. So I don't blame whoever the unnamed player is for feeling that way - although it was stupid of him to say so to a reporter.

pudge
08-07-2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
From today's Daily Southtown:

"The fans here have got to get a clue sometimes," one player commented. "Give the man the benefit of the doubt."



I'm glad I don't know who this player is, because he's a total moron, and I wouldn't want to have my image of him tainted.

Hokiesox
08-07-2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by pudge
I'm glad I don't know who this player is, because he's a total moron, and I wouldn't want to have my image of him tainted.

What if...purely a WHAT IF! What if it was Frank? I don't think your image of him would be tainted.

:firejerry

maurice
08-07-2003, 01:19 PM
IMHO, from the context of the entire artilce, the unnamed player is Sandy Alomar. I guess he's trying to brownnose his way into a coaching position next season, since the pitching staff seems to side with the fans. Grow a pair.

Rocky Soprano
08-07-2003, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I've always maintained that booing the home team is stupid (except for lack of effort), and only serves to piss off the very players who we all want to see succeed.

I totally agree with this.

We tend to forget that the player is only human and is out there doing his JOB.

There is not a single one of us that is perfect so that means we all have messed up at our workplace. What would you say if your boss/co-workers/etc, would stand up and boo you everytime you mess up.

The fact of the matter is that the players are out there giving it their all. They are not machines, hell machines mess up all the time, why wouldnt a man goof up once in a while.

If you know the player is out there trying and fails, there should be no reason for us to boo.

Brian26
08-07-2003, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Maybe this player needs to give Sox fans, "the benefit of the doubt," until they actually do something like you know, making the playoffs, winning the division, or starting out strong from Opening Day instead of always when they are either out of the race or until the second half of the season.Lip

Well, we're a game out of first place, and we've won 17 of our last 22. We're 17-5 in the last 22 games. That's amazing.

This team *is* doing something about it. We're in the pennant race. No need to be so negative. I agree with the player. Are you saying if the Sox won the World Series last year, our fans wouldn't be booing guys this year? Give me a break. We all know how fickle baseball fans (especially SOX fans) are.

Paulwny
08-07-2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano


If you know the player is out there trying and fails, there should be no reason for us to boo.

Its the nature of the beast. For all Mariano Rivera has done for the yanks he was booed by many last night, 2 consecutive blown saves and I believe the 4th in his last 10 appearances.

SoxxoS
08-07-2003, 02:34 PM
I've got the unnamed player being either-

Sandy Alomar
Frank Thomas
Billy Koch

RKMeibalane
08-07-2003, 02:47 PM
Whoever this was shouldn't have spoken with a reporter. He was only asking for trouble by doing that.

Having said that, the player in question was speaking from his own experience dealing with Sox fans and their reaction to Jerry Manuel. I have the feeling that this player is someone who has spent the past few years facing the White Sox as an opponent. I don't think one of the Sox own players (except maybe Koch) would say something like this.

I don't think Frank Thomas would say this. He's been around long enough to know how bad of a manager Manuel is. Besides, it's not like the Sox could just get rid of him if he spoke his mind. He's not Rick White. Frank Thomas needs to be around if this team wants to get anything accomplished this season.

Irishsox1
08-07-2003, 02:58 PM
I agree with the player, the White Sox fans are way to hot on Jerry. The guy isn't going to get fired this year, so sit back and enjoy watching players like Colon, Frank, Maggs, Roberto Alomar, Carl Everett, Carlos Lee. This team is loaded with talent. I'm going to enjoy the next three months of baseball and not let the "Anti-Jerry" talk affect me.

Eddie Gaedel
08-07-2003, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
I agree with the player, the White Sox fans are way to hot on Jerry. The guy isn't going to get fired this year, so sit back and enjoy watching players like Colon, Frank, Maggs, Roberto Alomar, Carl Everett, Carlos Lee. This team is loaded with talent. I'm going to enjoy the next three months of baseball and not let the "Anti-Jerry" talk affect me.

I'm with you pal. we have to deal with what we've got, 'cause it's not gonna change this year. enough with the negativity.

Hullett_Fan
08-07-2003, 03:25 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I've got the unnamed player being either-

Sandy Alomar
Frank Thomas
Billy Koch

S. Alomar - maybe
Thomas - no, he's setting things right with the fans this year...he's not that dumb
Koch - probably agreed with Rick White...I think they were buds.

My money's on Everett.

LASOXFAN
08-07-2003, 03:28 PM
He's right, fans do need to get a clue, but what can you expect? A manager is the easiest target for a player's failure to perform. I'll be the first to blame Manuel for some questionable managerial calls (not having someone warming up on Monday night, for instance), but I refuse to blame him for a player's performance. These guys are making millions, they need to earn it.

So be it if some fans want to sit around whining about the manager while the team salvages its season. Fortunately guys like Lip are in the minority. I think most fans care more about the season than the manager's job status.

Dadawg_77
08-07-2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Hullett_Fan
S. Alomar - maybe
Thomas - no, he's setting things right with the fans this year...he's not that dumb
Koch - probably agreed with Rick White...I think they were buds.

My money's on Everett.

Konerko
Harris
Rowand
Ghost of Ice Cream Chile, Clayton

KingXerxes
08-07-2003, 03:37 PM
I'll bet it was Manuel himself.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-07-2003, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Konerko
Harris
Rowand
Ghost of Ice Cream Chile, Clayton

My guess would be somebody who is playing politics on behalf of the front office... probably figures making such a statement will ingratiate himself with the powers that be, maybe angling for a job with the club after his playing days are over... too worried about his public image to go on the record by name for what he said. In other words, having his cake and eating it too.

Konerko and Sandy are the two names that immediately spring to mind.

Personally, I think it's dumb to boo the home team. You only succeed in making yourself look like an ass. The only big exception would be for playing (or managing) dumb baseball. In Manuel's case, I think most of us stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt months ago, maybe even years ago.

RKMeibalane
08-07-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
In Manuel's case, I think most of us stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt months ago, maybe even years ago.

I stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt the day he admitted that he likes to tinker even though it "usually doesn't work."

jeremyb1
08-07-2003, 04:37 PM
i couldn't agree more with the unnamed player. the regularity with which the fans shower manuel with boos is completely idiotic. as i've stated many times in various threads, there is a large contingent of sox fans for whom manuel cannot make the correct decision. i'm guessing the player's comment was in response to the boos manuel received for pulling colon for gordon yesterday which was one of the most clear cut decisions i've seen in a baseball game all year. manuel without a doubt made the right move and everyone was up in arms arguing that manuel made the worst decision possible and almost lost the game. many sox fans are idiots when it comes to the unrealistic standards they hold their own manager to and the degree to which they verbally attack him. i hate to say such as thing about fellow fans but its true.

the player was completely right and was supporting his manager who despite his flaws most certainly has the back of every player on the team. all the more power to whomever it was. i wish their name was given so i could give them the proper credit.

gosox41
08-07-2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by maurice
IMHO, from the context of the entire artilce, the unnamed player is Sandy Alomar. I guess he's trying to brownnose his way into a coaching position next season, since the pitching staff seems to side with the fans. Grow a pair.


I didn't read the article, but my first reaction was to think it's another Manuel favorite. One who Hal spent a lot of time talking about in his recent article on the home page. One who seems to get the benefit of the doubt from JM no matter how badly he slumps.

Bob

gosox41
08-07-2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
I totally agree with this.

We tend to forget that the player is only human and is out there doing his JOB.

There is not a single one of us that is perfect so that means we all have messed up at our workplace. What would you say if your boss/co-workers/etc, would stand up and boo you everytime you mess up.

The fact of the matter is that the players are out there giving it their all. They are not machines, hell machines mess up all the time, why wouldnt a man goof up once in a while.

If you know the player is out there trying and fails, there should be no reason for us to boo.

I'll boo. Of course I look into other factors. For example when Frank was struggling in 1998-1999, I never booed him because of all he's done for hte franchise and also because Frank generally gets a bad rap.

To quote a wise old sage:

"Do. Or Do Not. There Is No Try."

Bob

gosox41
08-07-2003, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Irishsox1
I agree with the player, the White Sox fans are way to hot on Jerry. The guy isn't going to get fired this year, so sit back and enjoy watching players like Colon, Frank, Maggs, Roberto Alomar, Carl Everett, Carlos Lee. This team is loaded with talent. I'm going to enjoy the next three months of baseball and not let the "Anti-Jerry" talk affect me.

I enjoy watching the players. The problem comes in when the Tinkerer mishandles them and it effects their on the field performance.

For the record, after the trainer came out in the 8th, I do NOT blame JM at all for taking out Colon. I do blame him for pitching Gordon after 44 pitches on Monday and havign him warm up on Tuesday.

Bob

PaleHoseGeorge
08-07-2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1

the player was completely right and was supporting his manager who despite his flaws most certainly has the back of every player on the team.

Really? I'm guessing you agree with Manuel that the best interest of Frank Thomas--forget about the winning ways of the team, LOL!--has him playing beneath his full offensive potential? Is he a member of the team, too? Or does his "back" not count in your book?


Originally posted by jeremyb1

all the more power to whomever it was. i wish their name was given so i could give them the proper credit.

Pfft... you can forget it. Your hero is too much a ***** to go on the record. This is NOT the kind of guy you want for a teammate. He hasn't got the balls to stand up for what he thinks is right. If he did, he wouldn't care who knew it, would he?

MarqSox
08-07-2003, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Pfft... you can forget it. Your hero is too much a ***** to go on the record. This is NOT the kind of guy you want for a teammate. He hasn't got the balls to stand up for what he thinks is right. If he did, he wouldn't care who knew it, would he?

What, go on the record so he can get mercilessly booed? Yeah, that sounds like a party. I believe he was speaking for the majority of the clubhouse but didn't really feel like being run out of town ... I have no problem with that at all.

npdempse
08-07-2003, 05:40 PM
Given that the ONLY player quoted in the article otherwise is Sandy, we can safely assume it was him. And in context, it makes perfect sense. Manuel pulled Colon because he wasn't 100%. The fans booed. They should get a clue.

Now obviously, given his decisions to pull pitchers in the past couple of days, it was natural for folks to boo, but this time it was certainly not bad managing on Manuel's part.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-07-2003, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
What, go on the record so he can get mercilessly booed? Yeah, that sounds like a party. I believe he was speaking for the majority of the clubhouse but didn't really feel like being run out of town ... I have no problem with that at all.

Fine. Don't say anything to the media at all. Keep it to yourself, or share it with your teammates. They'll understand completely why Mr. Nameless didn't speak up.

I strongly question whether he is helping the team or his teammates to say these things ANONYMOUSLY to the media. To the contrary, he is splitting the clubhouse by not backing up what he says. You of course remember White, Garland, and Gordon all second-guessing Manuel the past two weeks--in print and by name. If it's true that "the majority of the clubhouse" agrees with him, standing up for them ought to be his priority--not being too afraid to be booed himself.

I mean really, what is that ****?

PaleHoseGeorge
08-07-2003, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by npdempse
Now obviously, given his decisions to pull pitchers in the past couple of days, it was natural for folks to boo, but this time it was certainly not bad managing on Manuel's part.

I agree. In fact, this is further evidence that booing the home team only makes you look like an ass. I prefer to just sit there and look amused while everyone around me boos. There is never a shortage of volunteers. :smile:

gosox41
08-07-2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
What, go on the record so he can get mercilessly booed? Yeah, that sounds like a party. I believe he was speaking for the majority of the clubhouse but didn't really feel like being run out of town ... I have no problem with that at all.

I think White, Valentin, and JG's refusal to comment after the game for fear of saying something stupid may reflect more of the attitude of the team. Add to that what ex-Sox playes like Foulke and Durham say and I'm going to go with them.

Bob

harwar
08-07-2003, 06:02 PM
"we're all on the same page in this clubhouse of what were trying to do" Sandy Alomar said.."now,if we could get the fans on that page".
I wonder just how many players are really behind JM,my guess is quite a few.I feel that if the players think that maybe we can get this thing done(playoffs)then who the hell am i to be bitching and whining about how bad of a manager Jerry is.Starting right now i am 100% behind JM and the White Sox,i mean we are stuck with the guy,sink or swim.
So lets ALL HAIL.. to our fearless leader Jerry Manuel as he leads the mighty Chicago White Sox on an historic drive to a World Series victory.
(of course we all know that he'll be terribly out-managed in the playoffs and look like a silly goose).

Lip Man 1
08-07-2003, 09:04 PM
LA Says:

So be it if some fans want to sit around whining about the manager while the team salvages its season. Fortunately guys like Lip are in the minority. I think most fans care more about the season than the manager's job status.

I couldn't care less about Manager Gandhi's status, I just want to win period.

That's my point...Sox fans have a right to boo because of all the screw ups Manager Moron has made the past 3 1/2 seasons. PLUS they have the right to boo because in fact, his constant "tinkering" even when he admits it is NOT working is HURTING the team ergo players like Valentin, White, Garland (by his silence) and last year Thomas, Durham, Foulke and Leifer wouldn't have made their comments in the first place.

By constantly booing Manager Gandhi the message is going out loud and clear to upper management that Sox fans despise his tactics and lack of ability or don't you think there is a connection to the booing and Williams implications that if Moron doesn't make the playoffs this season he's gone?

I was particularly hot about the player not having the stones to allow his name to be used. If you have something to say...say it. Be a man, not a wimp or shut up and don't open your mouth in the first place.

I agree totally that if Colon was hurt he needed to leave but after seeing Manager Moron's moves just this past week what did you expect Sox fans to think? They were thinking the way they did because of Gandhi's past stupidity.

Lip

Jjav829
08-07-2003, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Pfft... you can forget it. Your hero is too much a ***** to go on the record. This is NOT the kind of guy you want for a teammate. He hasn't got the balls to stand up for what he thinks is right. If he did, he wouldn't care who knew it, would he?

So you think the player should have gone on the record with these comments? Kind of like Konerko did last year when he criticized Thomas?

Dadawg_77
08-07-2003, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
So you think the player should have gone on the record with these comments? Kind of like Konerko did last year when he criticized Thomas?

You are comparing apples and oranges here. A player ripping on the fans isn't the same as a player ripping on a teamate.

Jjav829
08-07-2003, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
You are comparing apples and oranges here. A player ripping on the fans isn't the same as a player ripping on a teamate.

But if hes standing up for what he thinks is right, is it really that much of a difference?

Daver
08-07-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
But if hes standing up for what he thinks is right, is it really that much of a difference?

A player taking a team mate to task is the press is a whole different animal from a player taking the fans to task in the press.There is a huge difference.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-07-2003, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
So you think the player should have gone on the record with these comments? Kind of like Konerko did last year when he criticized Thomas?

Nope. I'm saying he should have discussed it with his teammates privately, or gathered several of them for a joint statement in front of the media, or stood up as the sole voice of brave reason on behalf of his manager and (presumably) his teammates. If none of these options were palatable, he should have just kept quiet and said nothing to the media at all. That's what all his teammates did--assuming of course all of them were as upset as he was.

Any of these options would be preferable to what Mr. Nameless actually did. Anonymous quotes from inside the clubhouse are strictly for cowards, and hardly good for the unity of the team either. That's my only point.

Jjav829
08-07-2003, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Nope. I'm saying he should have discussed it with his teammates privately, or gathered several of them for a joint statement in front of the media, or stood up as the sole voice of brave reason on behalf of his manager and (presumably) his teammates. If none of these options were palatable, he should have just kept quiet and said nothing to the media at all. That's what all his teammates did--assuming of course all of them were as upset as he was.

Any of these options would be preferable to what Mr. Nameless actually did. Anonymous quotes from inside the clubhouse are strictly for cowards, and hardly good for the unity of the team either. That's my only point.

I really doubt that an anonymous quote ripping the fans is going to harm the unity of the clubhouse much. What would discussing this with teammates do? And do you really think they are going to gather together for a statement in front of the media? I really can't see 5 Sox players standing there making a statement about how stupid some fans are.

Dadawg_77
08-07-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Nope. I'm saying he should have discussed it with his teammates privately, or gathered several of them for a joint statement in front of the media, or stood up as the sole voice of brave reason on behalf of his manager and (presumably) his teammates. If none of these options were palatable, he should have just kept quiet and said nothing to the media at all. That's what all his teammates did--assuming of course all of them were as upset as he was.

Any of these options would be preferable to what Mr. Nameless actually did. Anonymous quotes from inside the clubhouse are strictly for cowards, and hardly good for the unity of the team either. That's my only point.

Honestly I think we are taking this for way more then its worth. Look is this really a major issue? For all we know, a player just said somthing off the cuff, and the reporter used it. The reporter didn't use any names since it could hurt his ability to do his job since the player would take slack for the comment and add nothing to the story.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-07-2003, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
I really doubt that an anonymous quote ripping the fans is going to harm the unity of the clubhouse much. What would discussing this with teammates do? And do you really think they are going to gather together for a statement in front of the media? I really can't see 5 Sox players standing there making a statement about how stupid some fans are.

White, Garland, and Gordon all went on the record by name second-guessing Manuel through the media. (Manuel even confirmed it.) How does it look to those inside the clubhouse that one group is actively putting their own reputations on the line with their negative concerns towards Manuel while at least one other is taking the opposite tack ANONYMOUSLY?

And why wouldn't 5 ballplayers stick up for their manager if in fact we're to believe "the vast majority" of the clubhouse is in Manuel's corner? If anything, the fact this lone coward wouldn't even attach his name to his support of Manuel conveys precisely the opposite message.

Jjav829
08-07-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Honestly I think we are taking this for way more then its worth. Look is this really a major issue? For all we know, a player just said somthing off the cuff, and the reporter used it. The reporter didn't use any names since it could hurt his ability to do his job since the player would take slack for the comment and add nothing to the story.

Agreed. The player was right anyway.

Jjav829
08-07-2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
White, Garland, and Gordon all went on the record by name second-guessing Manuel through the media. (Manuel even confirmed it.) How does it look to those inside the clubhouse that one group is actively putting their own reputations on the line with their negative concerns towards Manuel while at least one other is taking the opposite tack ANONYMOUSLY?

And why wouldn't 5 ballplayers stick up for their manager if in fact we're to believe "the vast majority" of the clubhouse is in Manuel's corner? If anything, the fact this lone coward wouldn't even attach his name to his support of Manuel conveys precisely the opposite message.

Maybe it's just the way you put it, buy do you actually think a group of players would call a press conference to read a statement defending Manuel? The fact that the player didn't attach his name is due more to the fact that he doesn't want to take a beating from the fans for this quote.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-07-2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Honestly I think we are taking this for way more then its worth. Look is this really a major issue? For all we know, a player just said somthing off the cuff, and the reporter used it. The reporter didn't use any names since it could hurt his ability to do his job since the player would take slack for the comment and add nothing to the story.

I agree. In fact, it is nothing but a tempest in a teapot compared to what Paul Konerko did publicly to rip Frank Thomas by name last July. The fans don't occupy the clubhouse, but teammates do.

Anyway, if the Sox ballplayers truly want to show support for their manager, there are obviously better ways to do it than lone anonymous quotes.

MarqSox
08-07-2003, 09:37 PM
You know, one thing nobody has considered is, maybe this player wasn't talking to a reporter. That is, maybe he said it to another player and the reporter simply overheard it? If so, it would be unethical (not to mention, bad for future dealings with players) for the reporter to print the player's name since it wasn't said in the context of an interview.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-07-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Maybe it's just the way you put it, buy do you actually think a group of players would call a press conference to read a statement defending Manuel? The fact that the player didn't attach his name is due more to the fact that he doesn't want to take a beating from the fans for this quote.

Well obviously he doesn't want to take a beating for the quote. That's why he didn't allow the use of his name. This speaks directly to the level of his conviction. He wants to speak out--but he isn't willing to face the consequences. If another teammate stepped forward in support of what he said, I suspect the beating would be far less intense and a counter movement to boo the booers would quickly rise up to bring an end to the booing all together. After all, we're talking about Sox Fans who by definition are supporters of the team generally--if not the manager specifically.

Jjav829
08-07-2003, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Well obviously he doesn't want to take a beating for the quote. That's why he didn't allow the use of his name. This speaks directly to the level of his conviction. He wants to speak out--but he isn't willing to face the consequences. If another teammate stepped forward in support of what he said, I suspect the beating would be far less intense and a counter movement to boo the booers would quickly rise up to bring an end to the booing all together. After all, we're talking about Sox Fans who by definition are supporters of the team generally--if not the manager specifically.

Heh, you've got this thing all worked out. A counter movement to boo the booers? Would this be like a Jets vs. Sharks type thing? "Boooo!!" "No Booo you!!!"

PaleHoseGeorge
08-07-2003, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
You know, one thing nobody has considered is, maybe this player wasn't talking to a reporter. That is, maybe he said it to another player and the reporter simply overheard it? If so, it would be unethical (not to mention, bad for future dealings with players) for the reporter to print the player's name since it wasn't said in the context of an interview.

You may be right. I'm no journalist (big surprise, huh? :smile: ), but aren't they required to ask permission to use anything they overheard unless they specifically mention that they overheard it in their report? I mean, any sports journalist who violates the trust between the players and the press is going to be toast for not following the rules.

Exhibit A -------------> :moron

MarqSox
08-07-2003, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
You may be right. I'm no journalist (big surprise, huh? :smile: ), but aren't they required to ask permission to use anything they overheard unless they specifically mention that they overheard it in their report? I mean, any sports journalist who violates the trust between the players and the press is going to be toast for not following the rules.

Exhibit A -------------> :moron

Well, they should definitely ask permission if they plan on printing the name ... but if it's being kept anonymous and has obvious news value -- both of which apply here -- he wouldn't have to ask permission.

jeremyb1
08-07-2003, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Really? I'm guessing you agree with Manuel that the best interest of Frank Thomas--forget about the winning ways of the team, LOL!--has him playing beneath his full offensive potential? Is he a member of the team, too? Or does his "back" not count in your book?

whoa. you completely took my entire statement out of context. i argued that the fans blame manuel for everything without any restraint. every decision manuel makes is considered to be the exact opposite of the correct decision by the majority of sox fans. at no point did i argue that manuel is an outstanding manager or that he doesn't make mistakes.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-07-2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
whoa. you completely took my entire statement out of context. i argued that the fans blame manuel for everything without any restraint. every decision manuel makes is considered to be the exact opposite of the correct decision by the majority of sox fans. at no point did i argue that manuel is an outstanding manager or that he doesn't make mistakes.

Here's your entire post. I'll let others decide what "has the back of every ballplayer on the team" means (my emphasis added), and whether Manuel deserves credit for this based on how he has treated Frank Thomas--who most certainly is one of the ballplayers on the team.

i couldn't agree more with the unnamed player. the regularity with which the fans shower manuel with boos is completely idiotic. as i've stated many times in various threads, there is a large contingent of sox fans for whom manuel cannot make the correct decision. i'm guessing the player's comment was in response to the boos manuel received for pulling colon for gordon yesterday which was one of the most clear cut decisions i've seen in a baseball game all year. manuel without a doubt made the right move and everyone was up in arms arguing that manuel made the worst decision possible and almost lost the game. many sox fans are idiots when it comes to the unrealistic standards they hold their own manager to and the degree to which they verbally attack him. i hate to say such as thing about fellow fans but its true.

the player was completely right and was supporting his manager who despite his flaws most certainly has the back of every player on the team. all the more power to whomever it was. i wish their name was given so i could give them the proper credit.

steff
08-08-2003, 07:50 AM
My guess is Paul.

thepaulbowski
08-08-2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
I totally agree with this.

We tend to forget that the player is only human and is out there doing his JOB.

There is not a single one of us that is perfect so that means we all have messed up at our workplace. What would you say if your boss/co-workers/etc, would stand up and boo you everytime you mess up.

The fact of the matter is that the players are out there giving it their all. They are not machines, hell machines mess up all the time, why wouldnt a man goof up once in a while.

If you know the player is out there trying and fails, there should be no reason for us to boo.

If I got paid as much as they did, I would welcome the booing when I messed up at work. Also, my co-workers don't have to pay $ 20-30 to see me work every day, or pay $15.00 to park, or $5 for a can of beer, etc. Booing & cheering comes with the territory, ask Giambi in New York, he got booed for the first month of the season last year. Even Frank gets it, perform and fans love you, don't then expect to get booed. Whoever said this is spineless & thin skinned.