PDA

View Full Version : Royals trash Sox Fans


MarqSox
08-06-2003, 10:16 PM
From Steve Rosenboob's latest column ...

"That's Chicago.''

That's the way Kansas City first baseman Ken Harvey summed up the fights in the stands at sold-out U.S. Left Hook Field during Monday night's White Sox-Royals game.

"We just chalk it up as 'that's Chicago,' " Harvey reiterated. "Every time we've been here this year, something weird has happened. So, you kind of expect it."

The Royals have been here for a coach getting jumped by a shirtless father-son tag team. They've been here for a fan jumping an umpire. They've been here for random knuckleheads simply running onto the field. So, yeah, they noticed the South Side Hit Fans on Monday.

What's more, they were making fun of them in their clubhouse afterward.

"Everybody was talking about what they saw, mimicking punches, being stupid, having a good time with it and all that stuff," Harvey said. "We don't understand why these people got to do the things that they do."

Simple: Because that's Chicago.

southsidegirl
08-06-2003, 10:24 PM
"Everybody was talking about what they saw, mimicking punches, being stupid, having a good time with it and all that stuff," Harvey said. "We don't understand why these people got to do the things that they do."


what hes trying to say is....

"We are trying to convince the media that we have personality and charm by making fun of chicago fans in the clubhouse and then talking about it to the press"

inta
08-06-2003, 10:49 PM
maybe they're jealous since they're in first place and couldn't couldnt get over 25000 fans in any single game against the sox last week.

JJAustin69
08-06-2003, 10:50 PM
Yes, fans are an unfamiliar concept for them.

Foulke You
08-06-2003, 11:27 PM
Maybe if the Royals were paying attention to the game on the field instead of the Upper Deck, maybe they would have noticed their division lead getting cut to one game.

mandmandm
08-06-2003, 11:28 PM
I am a huge Sox fan but three incidents while KC is in town is not something that should be overlooked. Chicago is the third largest city in the country and I do not remember the fans packing it in as recently as 2nd half of 2000. While there may have been a small number of people involved, there have been several f'ups by both "fans" and ownership in the last 15 years. KC has won a world series in the last half century so I understand the passion of Sox fans but arrogance for a team the has Flash, Koch, no fifth starter, and other "minor" gliches is pretty rediculous. We are in second, have not won sh$t, have a shaky bullpen and you guys act like we are in celebrating in Grant park. Give me a break.

FJA
08-06-2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
Maybe if the Royals were paying attention to the game on the field instead of the Upper Deck, maybe they would have noticed their division lead getting cut to one game.

The Royals, their broadcasters and KC newspapers keep saying that these series aren't crucial. (I actually heard the play-by-play radio man of the Royals say he wouldn't bring out the "c" word until September ... as if there are no important series in the middle or beginning of the season.) I guess, to use a cliche, we got them right where we want them. I don't know if they're scared to confront the fact that they really do not have a very good record against teams .500 and above (30-41 by my count) or what ... but for some reason, they think they can win this division without beating the close second place team.

doublem23
08-06-2003, 11:47 PM
Sweet jesus... This team has its collective head so far up its collective ass, it comes around twice.

Here's a headline: ROYALS SUCK

gosox41
08-07-2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by southsidegirl
"Everybody was talking about what they saw, mimicking punches, being stupid, having a good time with it and all that stuff," Harvey said. "We don't understand why these people got to do the things that they do."


what hes trying to say is....

"We are trying to convince the media that we have personality and charm by making fun of chicago fans in the clubhouse and then talking about it to the press"

Harvey= Doug Menkevi....???


I hope Sox fans remember this come September when the Royals visit again.

Bob

mandmandm
08-07-2003, 12:04 AM
You guys are right. After the sweep last week the royals handed over the division title for the Sox to keep. After every game this week when the Sox have taken the lead, KC has forfeited so that both teams could get a good nights sleep. In this series I have seen the Sox on three occasions jump on the KC starter only to let them off the hook to give the KC bullpen the upper hand. I am thinking that the White Sox crack you are smoking is all Star commemorative, that is the only reason your thinking is so delusional.

inta
08-07-2003, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by FJA
The Royals, their broadcasters and KC newspapers keep saying that these series aren't crucial. (I actually heard the play-by-play radio man of the Royals say he wouldn't bring out the "c" word until September ... as if there are no important series in the middle or beginning of the season.) I guess, to use a cliche, we got them right where we want them. I don't know if they're scared to confront the fact that they really do not have a very good record against teams .500 and above (30-41 by my count) or what ... but for some reason, they think they can win this division without beating the close second place team.

that's exactly it, their media is annoyingly sunshiney, constantly braying about our tougher series for the rest of the year compared to their weaker matchups. maybe they can coast into the playoffs by feasting on tampa's and detroits...
but it's not about just getting to the playoffs, it's about competing in the big games.

HITMEN OF 77
08-07-2003, 02:52 AM
While they were busy trashing our fans we were busy trashing them on the field. Not a crucial game or series?? What the heck, its almost mid August. I forgot though, the last crucial game for KC was over a decade ago. I think the Royals are about to pull even with the Mariners on my top hate list real quick!

soxtalker
08-07-2003, 07:11 AM
It's hard for me to see how I would have any other impression of Chicago if I was a player on the Royals team. It was their 1st base coach who was attacked. And the fights in the stands are inexcusable; that has been discussed in other threads over the past couple of days. I've been a Sox fan for a long time. Now, I attended the Tuesday night game, and I'll probably simply make it a point to avoid half-priced nights. But I'm embarrassed when I see and hear about such behavior. It doesn't have to occur. When the teams, fans, and media from other cities start seeing that as typical, that should be a wake-up call.

whitesoxwilkes
08-07-2003, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by mandmandm
You guys are right. After the sweep last week the royals handed over the division title for the Sox to keep. After every game this week when the Sox have taken the lead, KC has forfeited so that both teams could get a good nights sleep. In this series I have seen the Sox on three occasions jump on the KC starter only to let them off the hook to give the KC bullpen the upper hand. I am thinking that the White Sox crack you are smoking is all Star commemorative, that is the only reason your thinking is so delusional.

ummmm..can we get rid of this troll?

mandmandm
08-07-2003, 09:12 AM
Ummmm...troll this Wilkes. I am as big of a Sox fan as anyone on this board. I just think some of you guys are a little blinded by your support of the Sox. It is bad that a few people have tarnished the reputation of Sox fans, but we have to deal with the fact. I am thrilled that the Sox took 5-6 from the Royals. But we are still in second place with Oakland coming into town while KC faces the D-Rays. I will be at Comiskey tomorrow night cheering on the Sox with hopefully a sold out crowd. However, I do not share the same optimisim that the Sox will win this division that some on this board do. I really hope they do. 2000 was so much easier on the heart, I do not know how many more ninth innings I can take against KC. No hard feelings Wilkes, just do not appreciate being called a troll!

hold2dibber
08-07-2003, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
It's hard for me to see how I would have any other impression of Chicago if I was a player on the Royals team. It was their 1st base coach who was attacked. And the fights in the stands are inexcusable; that has been discussed in other threads over the past couple of days. I've been a Sox fan for a long time. Now, I attended the Tuesday night game, and I'll probably simply make it a point to avoid half-priced nights. But I'm embarrassed when I see and hear about such behavior. It doesn't have to occur. When the teams, fans, and media from other cities start seeing that as typical, that should be a wake-up call.

I completely agree. The brawling in the stands has to stop - it is embarrassing. I'd rather the buffoons who show up on half priced nights only to get trashed and start fights just stay home. Hell, I'm a Sox fan and I make fun of those idiots, so I sure don't see why anyone would have a problem if an opposing player does the same.

Brian26
08-07-2003, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by mandmandm
2000 was so much easier on the heart, I do not know how many more ninth innings I can take against KC.

You know, a win is a win. It counts the same in the win column whether we defeat our opponent by one run or 20 runs. I don't mind the excitement. I actually enjoy it. It's fun to have blow-out games like we did last week in KC and that first game in Seattle. However, I think that the most memorable games are the ones we win in the late innings and just barely get by. Keep in mind, the Royals psyche probably takes a much bigger blow when they lose by one run (especially after an attempted comeback) than when they get blown out early in the game. 2000 was a great year. Just because we're not blowing out every team this year, though, it doesn't mean we won't make the post-season. Instead of being so negative, enjoy the success this team has put together. Things were looking disappointing in April and May, and all of a sudden we have a great pennant race now. Enjoy it.

hold2dibber
08-07-2003, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by mandmandm
Ummmm...troll this Wilkes. I am as big of a Sox fan as anyone on this board. I just think some of you guys are a little blinded by your support of the Sox. It is bad that a few people have tarnished the reputation of Sox fans, but we have to deal with the fact. I am thrilled that the Sox took 5-6 from the Royals. But we are still in second place with Oakland coming into town while KC faces the D-Rays. I will be at Comiskey tomorrow night cheering on the Sox with hopefully a sold out crowd. However, I do not share the same optimisim that the Sox will win this division that some on this board do. I really hope they do. 2000 was so much easier on the heart, I do not know how many more ninth innings I can take against KC. No hard feelings Wilkes, just do not appreciate being called a troll!

The problem is that your posts in this thread are way off topic. The topic was comments made by a Royals player about misbehavior by Sox fans. Your responses are all of the "you people are on crack for being so optimistic". That doesn't have anything to do with the behavior of Sox fans in the stands.

Overall, however, I hear where you're coming from. I myself am cautiously optimistic. I think the Sox have the most talent in the division. They are, nonetheless, still in 2nd place and have a tougher schedule than the Royals down the stretch (although the Sox do have a lot of home games and they tend to play well at home). Could this team win the division? Absolutely. Will they? Who knows - as we have seen, they are susceptible to prolonged funks where they look like the Detroit Tigers out there, and JM can't seem to do anything right lately.

fledgedrallycap
08-07-2003, 09:20 AM
Personally, I don't care what they think. Does anyone honestly think that any member of the Royals wouldn't rather be in Chicago (either side of town). They live in the middle of no where in small market Kansas City and we all are fortunate to live in the greatest city in the world.

THE_HOOTER
08-07-2003, 09:28 AM
The Sox either need to cut off beer sales a lot earlier, or check ID's a lot tougher because I saw an awful lot of underage people getting plowed.

It's the booze, plain and simple.

Cut beer sales off in the 5th inning, it couldn't hurt--except those like myself who want to drink and watch the game without going a few rounds.

I am willing to give it up for safety reasons.

You cut off the beer, you make things tougher for the buttheads.

jabrch
08-07-2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by mandmandm
You guys are right. After the sweep last week the royals handed over the division title for the Sox to keep. After every game this week when the Sox have taken the lead, KC has forfeited so that both teams could get a good nights sleep. In this series I have seen the Sox on three occasions jump on the KC starter only to let them off the hook to give the KC bullpen the upper hand. I am thinking that the White Sox crack you are smoking is all Star commemorative, that is the only reason your thinking is so delusional.


5 of 6, right?

mandmandm
08-07-2003, 09:37 AM
Right, my passion for the Sox may have gotten the best of me last night. I was at work listening to the game yesterday. After Bartolo got out of the eighth inning jam I was ecstatic. 20 minutes later I was banging my head on my computer monitor waiting for Gordon to blow the lead. I guess I should enjoy the ride and concentrate on the positives.

thecell
08-07-2003, 09:48 AM
Who cares what the Royals think! They should have been paying attention to the scoreboard and not the isolated fight(s) in the stands. This isn't some luxury hotel where we're supposed to cater to them to make them feel comfortable. This is Comiskey Park, the Southside of Chicago! I'm proud of where I come from and the tradition on the Southside. Yeah, there are a lot of morons out there that are bent on causing trouble, but why should they ruin it for the rest of us? They shouldn't! If I want to have a beer (or 3) in the 7th inning, I damn well better be able to! Why should any of us have to sacrifice anything because of a handful of schmucks? We shouldn't. Yeah, there were a couple of fights during the series, but figure that there were 117,000 people there over the 3 days. A few isolated fights and misbehavior is expected. Let's just say there were 20 arrests this series, which I'm sure there were fewer. That means less than ten-thousandths of a percent of people caused enough trouble to get arrested. I like those numbers. We as Sox fans need to stop worrying about what other people think about us. I can care less. I want to see a winner and have fun at the ballpark at the same time...especially when our Sox are beating the Royals.

aaah, i feel better now

Shoeless Joe
08-07-2003, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by thecell
Who cares what the Royals think! They should have been paying attention to the scoreboard and not the isolated fight(s) in the stands. This isn't some luxury hotel where we're supposed to cater to them to make them feel comfortable. This is Comiskey Park, the Southside of Chicago! I'm proud of where I come from and the tradition on the Southside. Yeah, there are a lot of morons out there that are bent on causing trouble, but why should they ruin it for the rest of us? They shouldn't! If I want to have a beer (or 3) in the 7th inning, I damn well better be able to! Why should any of us have to sacrifice anything because of a handful of schmucks? We shouldn't. Yeah, there were a couple of fights during the series, but figure that there were 117,000 people there over the 3 days. A few isolated fights and misbehavior is expected. Let's just say there were 20 arrests this series, which I'm sure there were fewer. That means less than ten-thousandths of a percent of people caused enough trouble to get arrested. I like those numbers. We as Sox fans need to stop worrying about what other people think about us. I can care less. I want to see a winner and have fun at the ballpark at the same time...especially when our Sox are beating the Royals.

aaah, i feel better now

I agree with you thecell, we shouldn't care what Ken Harvey has to say about human relations. The truth is that there were fights in the stands but you'd have to be kidding me if fights don't take place elsewhere in Major League Baseball. Besides didn't these same Royals and their supposed choir boy, Mike Sweeney, get into a huge brawl last year? Sounds like hypocrisy.

Jerko
08-07-2003, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
The Sox either need to cut off beer sales a lot earlier, or check ID's a lot tougher because I saw an awful lot of underage people getting plowed.

It's the booze, plain and simple.

Cut beer sales off in the 5th inning, it couldn't hurt--except those like myself who want to drink and watch the game without going a few rounds.

I am willing to give it up for safety reasons.

You cut off the beer, you make things tougher for the buttheads.

Well, I disagree with that. If you have a group of morons that know the beer sales end in the fifth inning, all they'll do is double up rounds every time they go buy one and get bombed even faster. Each guy can buy at least 4 beers a trip, if I'm there and I'm in the mood for beer, I have 6 buddies with me all the time; All 7 would just hit a different stand/vendor and we'd have 28 beers waiting for us for the rest of the game! That's more than I would drink if the stands stayed open! I hate to say it, the half price nights have to stop. That's where that 'element' comes from. The allstar game was sold out and I don't remember hearing about any fights. As for ID's, the beer vendors do check, but I don't know about the beer stands. I got carded and I'm 39 years old.

Dan H
08-07-2003, 10:21 AM
Face it, Sox fans. With two incidents of fans running on the field against the same team in a relatively short period of time, we will be stuck with a bad reputation for a time whether we deserve it or not. Just ask Mike Veeck how Disco Demolition has dogged him for almost 25 years.

Manmandm is no troll. The Sox almost lost multiple run leads in two consecutive games. The good thing is that they won. The bad thing s that they let those games get that close. Championship teams put their opponents away for good; they don't let them have a chance of pulling it out.

BKozi
08-07-2003, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by Dan H
Face it, Sox fans. With two incidents of fans running on the field against the same team in a relatively short period of time, we will be stuck with a bad reputation for a time whether we deserve it or not. Just ask Mike Veeck how Disco Demolition has dogged him for almost 25 years.

Manmandm is no troll. The Sox almost lost multiple run leads in two consecutive games. The good thing is that they won. The bad thing s that they let those games get that close. Championship teams put their opponents away for good; they don't let them have a chance of pulling it out.

I seem to remember a series last week where we did a pretty good job of that. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have put these guys away earlier (and in fact we should have won that game on Monday), I'm just saying don't judge the entire team or the entire season by the manner in which they WON the last 2 games.

MarqSox
08-07-2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Hell, I'm a Sox fan and I make fun of those idiots, so I sure don't see why anyone would have a problem if an opposing player does the same.

It's sort of one of those, "I can make fun of my little sister, but if you say a bad word about her I'll punch you in the face" kind of things.

BKozi
08-07-2003, 10:32 AM
Can anybody here that was at the Royals games tell me if the fighting was that bad? I was forced to watch the game on the Royals network and they made it sound like there was a battle royal in the stands every night. Anytime you get a large crowd together like that, fights are going to break out, especially if alcohol is involved. Was the fighting any worse than any other ballpark though?

guillen4life13
08-07-2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by BKozi
I seem to remember a series last week where we did a pretty good job of that. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have put these guys away earlier (and in fact we should have won that game on Monday), I'm just saying don't judge the entire team or the entire season by the manner in which they WON the last 2 games.

Championship teams are consistent in putting their opponents away.

Tragg
08-07-2003, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by FJA
The Royals, their broadcasters and KC newspapers keep saying that these series aren't crucial. (I actually heard the play-by-play radio man of the Royals say he wouldn't bring out the "c" word until September ... as if there are no important series in the middle or beginning of the season.) I guess, to use a cliche, we got them right where we want them. I don't know if they're scared to confront the fact that they really do not have a very good record against teams .500 and above (30-41 by my count) or what ... but for some reason, they think they can win this division without beating the close second place team.

It is absolutely true though that these games are more important to us. First, we're behind them. But even moreso, we have a lot tougher remaining schedule - or, better said, they have a lot of games v the Tigers and Indians left while we're playing Oakland and the Yankees. So we absolutely must crush them if we are to win this thing. We saw the pin ball effect last weekend - we lost a game to them because we played seattle and they played tampa bay.

doogiec
08-07-2003, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by BKozi
Can anybody here that was at the Royals games tell me if the fighting was that bad? I was forced to watch the game on the Royals network and they made it sound like there was a battle royal in the stands every night. Anytime you get a large crowd together like that, fights are going to break out, especially if alcohol is involved. Was the fighting any worse than any other ballpark though?

I was at all three games, and Monday and Tuesday's crowds were as violent as I've seen at a non Cubs/Sox game in years.

It seemed as though the Sox were giving out free tickets as people were leaving the tapings of the Jerry Springer show.

It was an absolute embarrassment. I'd rather have 20,000 who are into the game than the 40,000 plus crowds we had earlier this week.

VaSoxfan
08-07-2003, 11:51 AM
I am so sick to death about hearing about the schedules, like we play Oakland 40 times out of the last 60 games. We play the Yanks the equal amount of times the Royals do, and we only play Oakland 3 stinking times...AT HOME. Where the Sox are strong and oh yeah, the A's are below .500 away from home.

Geesh, enough comparing the schedules. With as lousy as the Royals starting pitching is, they are going to have battles no matter who they play. Besides, the way the Sox have been, they seem to play worse against the bad teams, so playing better competition is probably better for them. Then they'll be used to playing those kinds of teams when the playoffs start.

BKozi
08-07-2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
Championship teams are consistent in putting their opponents away.

I'm seeing this "championship team" tag thrown out a lot. What exactly does this mean? In my estimation, we played really well yesterday up until the top of the ninth. Did we play like a "championship team" up until then? I don't know, but I do know that Tom Gordon gave up the 3 runs that put them back in it. Does this mean that Tom Gordon should be released because he's not up to par for a "championship team"? I would think of the Yankees as a "championship team" because of their recent history, but Rivera gave up 2 runs in the ninth yesterday to blow the save and get the loss. Are they no longer a "championship team"?

I'm not trying to be difficult, but we won yesterday. "Championship teams" in my estimation are teams that find ways to win games. We just won 6 out of 9 from 2 of the division leading teams in the AL. That's pretty damn good! Whether it's 11 runs or 1 run, we still won and that's the important thing. I think that everyone needs to relax and enjoy where we're at right now. Many people had given up on this team a month ago.

thecell
08-07-2003, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by doogiec
I was at all three games, and Monday and Tuesday's crowds were as violent as I've seen at a non Cubs/Sox game in years.

It seemed as though the Sox were giving out free tickets as people were leaving the tapings of the Jerry Springer show.

It was an absolute embarrassment. I'd rather have 20,000 who are into the game than the 40,000 plus crowds we had earlier this week.

That's ridiculous. What does everyone expect? We're not going to church! We're going to a baseball game on the South side of Chicago where the beer flows like water, the sweet aroma of hot dogs and polishes fills the summer air, and the team wins! Let us not care what a few schmoes do, let's just have fun and show everyone (at least those paying any attention) how real Sox fans act...because there will always be a handful of dumbasses.

Hangar18
08-07-2003, 01:57 PM
Fighting in ballparks (and anywhere else) is really Stupid and
Ive grown tired of it. BUt its always happened, ive seen on tv brawls in yankee stadium, fenway... and oh....Over at Club Wrigley too. (shhh, dont tell the media that wrigley has fights too) I hope I never see a Sox Fan fighting a Sox Fan. Theres NO REASON for it, and I wont have it. Theres too many others against us as it is. Were brothers sort of in this.....

Rocky Soprano
08-07-2003, 02:05 PM
You would hardly ever see a fight if all those damn Flub Fans stop showing up at our park.

doogiec
08-08-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by thecell
That's ridiculous. What does everyone expect? We're not going to church! We're going to a baseball game on the South side of Chicago where the beer flows like water, the sweet aroma of hot dogs and polishes fills the summer air, and the team wins! Let us not care what a few schmoes do, let's just have fun and show everyone (at least those paying any attention) how real Sox fans act...because there will always be a handful of dumbasses.

You're right, we're not going to church. But there's a lot of places besides church where you can't start brawls in public.

Half price night should be a great opportunity for a family to go to a game affordably. But its hard to justify bringing smaller children to that atmosphere. All it takes is one 200 pound drunken brawler falling over to seriously hurt a child (or woman for that part). Not to mention the danger of someone innocent falling or being pushed off the upper deck during a fight, and the reality that someday someone will use a weapon.

Bars tell fighters to take it outside. The Sox need to find a way to do the same thing, or figure out a way to cut the alcohol consumption. There are too many people around there on half price night that just can't handle their liquor.

thepaulbowski
08-08-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by doogiec
You're right, we're not going to church. But there's a lot of places besides church where you can't start brawls in public.

Half price night should be a great opportunity for a family to go to a game affordably. But its hard to justify bringing smaller children to that atmosphere. All it takes is one 200 pound drunken brawler falling over to seriously hurt a child (or woman for that part). Not to mention the danger of someone innocent falling or being pushed off the upper deck during a fight, and the reality that someday someone will use a weapon.

Bars tell fighters to take it outside. The Sox need to find a way to do the same thing, or figure out a way to cut the alcohol consumption. There are too many people around there on half price night that just can't handle their liquor.

Over 40,000 fans, no more than 10-20 start trouble....I'll take those odds. These people would start trouble any place they were at. If we spend all our time worrying abou the what could happen, we'd all sit at home in plastic bubbles. I could get hit by a bus as I walk across the street or I could get mugged. It doesn't mean I stop doing what I'm doing. This stuff just looks worse than it is because everybody stands to watch & talks about. Kind of like people who slow down to gape at car accidents or police activity. After sitting in traffic thinking something horrible had happened, you get to the accident scene and it's just a fender bender. Things get overblown.

When things happen at Sox games, security is usually really quick to respond, you have to give them credit for that.

Jerko
08-08-2003, 02:43 PM
Everybody that is blaming liquor, I'm telling you it will be worse if the beer sales are cut off early. I love having beers at the game, but if I know I can't drink after an hour and a half, I either get plastered before the game and show up drunk already, or I order 4 beers every time I want a beer and have my buddies do the same, having a stash built up for the night. I think cutting off beer sales early will make people DRUNKER FASTER!

doogiec
08-09-2003, 08:27 AM
I agree that cutting off liquor sales early won't solve the problem. I think the problem is caused more by the tailgating policies being loosened over the last couple of years. People are loading up on the beer they bought at a store for 75 cents each to avoid paying 4.75 at the park. When people are already loaded when they enter the park, the last couple they have there pushes them over the edge, and by the 4th inning they are bored and hammered.

Maybe they should limit the tailgating to certain lots that don't open until an hour before game time, or eliminate it on half price nights.

I also don't believe in "living in a bubble", but any parent worth a damn isn't going to put their children in a situation they perceive as dangerous, whether that perception is accurate or not. And that perception is definitely there, just like it was in the late 70's.

xil357
08-09-2003, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Everybody that is blaming liquor, I'm telling you it will be worse if the beer sales are cut off early. I love having beers at the game, but if I know I can't drink after an hour and a half, I either get plastered before the game and show up drunk already, or I order 4 beers every time I want a beer and have my buddies do the same, having a stash built up for the night. I think cutting off beer sales early will make people DRUNKER FASTER!

As a Sox fan I consider you my brother in arms.

But you would actually either make it a point to get plastered early, or buy more beers ahead of time and drink warm, watered-down swill later in the game -- just so you can be comfortably numb?

I'm not in favor of prohibition, but for goodness sake, is alcohol SO important that people have to have it in large quantities in order to enjoy a Sox game?

I don't blame liquor. I blame people who drink too much of it for their own good -- and the safety of others. Like it or not there have been too many incidents at the Cell, even accounting for the fact that have been over-blown in the media while problems at the Urinal (or the fact that it has been Cubs fans running on the field at the Cell) have been overlooked. The Sox cannot afford any more PR problems than they already have.

I say go with ID bracelets as you come in. No bracelet (of the proper color), no booze. I also say have uniformed and undercover police to perform checks on underage drunkenness. Then, every beer vendor has a hole punch. Whenever you buy a beer, you get a hole punched in your bracelet. Once you have X number of holes (pick a number) in your bracelet, the vendor removes your bracelet and you are cut off, and no beer sales whatsoever after the 7th inning.

There is a point where the common good has to outweigh the individual's right to get completely smashed on public property and then be a menace on the roadways after the game.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-09-2003, 09:15 AM
As a father of a 4 y.o. and a 6 y.o. I can tell with 100% certainty that there is no way I would ever bring either of them to half-price night at Sox Park. Stop confusing this promotion with "family friendly" pricing strategy. It's not. The Sunday afternoon $1 kids days are far more effective to reach families.

Half-price nights are mostly attractive to adults, especially young adults, looking for something to do on a pleasant summer evening. The price of admission is cheap and thus the cost of buying beer becomes less a hurdle to their wallet. Of course it's night, too, so drinking was probably already top of mind. They sure aren't using the savings to stock up on Sox souvenirs to cart home and decorate their apartment.

It should go without saying the overwhelming percentage of fights, vulgarity, and other rowdy behavior involves boys and young men, 17-27. Getting drunk makes their judgment even worse than it otherwise might be while watching the Sox lose (assuming they're true Sox Fans, which I believe many of us agree they're not).

If you want to fill the ballpark, half-price nights work great to attract that sort of crowd. But don't ever confuse such an audience as being family friendly.

doogiec
08-09-2003, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
As a father of a 4 y.o. and a 6 y.o. I can tell with 100% certainty that there is no way I would ever bring either of them to half-price night at Sox Park.

And that's the real shame of this. When my son was the same age as your children, I would never have hesitated taking him to any of the 81 Sox games, regardless of discounts or promotions. This was in the early 90's when the Sox were drawing huge crowds due to the new park and put some good teams on the field. Fighting was minimal back then. My son (now in high school and big enough to defend himself) is now a die hard Sox fan as a result.

I remember growing up in the seventies a lot of parents wouldn't take their kids to Comiskey due to the "Friday Night Fights" and "World Largest Tavern" reputation. Those kids grew up to be Cubs fans (along with the next generation in the eighties who couldn't see the Sox on TV easily, but that's another point). The Sox have got to find a balance here somehow.

Jerko
08-09-2003, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by xil357
As a Sox fan I consider you my brother in arms.

But you would actually either make it a point to get plastered early, or buy more beers ahead of time and drink warm, watered-down swill later in the game -- just so you can be comfortably numb?

I'm not in favor of prohibition, but for goodness sake, is alcohol SO important that people have to have it in large quantities in order to enjoy a Sox game?

I don't blame liquor. I blame people who drink too much of it for their own good -- and the safety of others. Like it or not there have been too many incidents at the Cell, even accounting for the fact that have been over-blown in the media while problems at the Urinal (or the fact that it has been Cubs fans running on the field at the Cell) have been overlooked. The Sox cannot afford any more PR problems than they already have.

I say go with ID bracelets as you come in. No bracelet (of the proper color), no booze. I also say have uniformed and undercover police to perform checks on underage drunkenness. Then, every beer vendor has a hole punch. Whenever you buy a beer, you get a hole punched in your bracelet. Once you have X number of holes (pick a number) in your bracelet, the vendor removes your bracelet and you are cut off, and no beer sales whatsoever after the 7th inning.

There is a point where the common good has to outweigh the individual's right to get completely smashed on public property and then be a menace on the roadways after the game.

Maybe I shouldn't have said me, I have not had a pre-game drink in 3 years (tailgating, Jimbos, stadium club) and the main reason I go to the games is FOR the games. I personally can have enough beer at the games that I don't have/want to go and get drunk before the game starts. I'm happy with my beers during the game and then if I want more I go to the stadium club afterwards (we have 2 people in our crowd who don't drink, they're our drivers). I don't need to show up hammered. BUT, if you get a beer drinker who is pressed for cash and can only show up on half price nights, he IS going to start before the game to save $$$, especially if he's a raging drunk. That seems to be the UD monday night crowd. They WILL get bombed early at Jimbos or by tailgating just to save $$$, since half price night is all about saving $$$. I know people hate warm beer too which means to me that if someone is going to make the effort to stash up the beers before last call, they will guzzle them even faster before they get warm. Then you'll have a bunch of drunks who are hammered even faster than usual within an hour of the game having started sitting there jonesing for more beers with the stands closed. Now they are not only drunks, they are pissed off, mean drunks because their supply has been negated. The bracelet idea can be a good one if everyone shows up to the game stone sober, but there is no way to prevent people from showing up hammered unless you do a breatalyzer on them before letting them into the game. And who is to say how many beers get people drunk? If I go to a game with my sister who has one beer and I have 10, I trade bracelets with her. Unfortunately, whatever they do, there's ways around everything. Maybe they should leave the beer alone and deep six the half price mondays. I didn't see any fights at the all star game and that was sold out

soxtalker
08-09-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by doogiec
And that's the real shame of this. When my son was the same age as your children, I would never have hesitated taking him to any of the 81 Sox games, regardless of discounts or promotions. This was in the early 90's when the Sox were drawing huge crowds due to the new park and put some good teams on the field. Fighting was minimal back then. My son (now in high school and big enough to defend himself) is now a die hard Sox fan as a result.

I remember growing up in the seventies a lot of parents wouldn't take their kids to Comiskey due to the "Friday Night Fights" and "World Largest Tavern" reputation. Those kids grew up to be Cubs fans (along with the next generation in the eighties who couldn't see the Sox on TV easily, but that's another point). The Sox have got to find a balance here somehow.

Interesting to see how things have come full circle. One of the things that Reinsdorf and Einhorn were so keen on doing when they took over was to eliminate the beer-hall image and make things more family-friendly. Now, the over-serving and fights are probably an unintentional side effect of the half-price Monday's and Tuesday's, but they have essentially shifted the population who attends the games.

I was at the game on Tuesday, sitting at the very top of the upper deck. Fortunately, I wasn't in a section that had any fights, but I'll still probably avoid half-priced nights in the future.

adsit
08-09-2003, 12:41 PM
Until Disco Demolition happened, my parents were blissfully unaware of the "bad Comiskey" reputation. I often went down there with my friend, whose older brother went to IIT and lived on campus. The three of us would walk across the Ryan to the games together, and that was enough "chaperoning" for them.

After Steve Dahl did his thing I couldn't do that anymore for a while. That was ironic, because it was mostly teenagers who ripped up the place, not the adults, nor necessarily the baseball fans. We were being protected from ourselves, in a sense... based on what my parents "saw on the news."

I don't recall Comiskey fans of that period being any more, or less, loutish than those in Wrigley or County Stadium in Milwaukee, the only other places I'd seen games in person at that point. If anything, the Comiskey crowd (especially when the teams were bad) were good-timing it, in a "happy drunk" sense, and were a sideshow to the game, not a distraction.

I don't see that anymore, and I've seen enough of an uptick in violent behavior (in Boston, NY and Philadelphia... haven't seen a game in Chicago in five years) that I'd never take children to anything but a weekend afternoon game. And that's sad, because baseball is among my own best childhood memories.

I know that British football teams have had to take extraordinary steps to contain their violent minority, and wonder how long it will be before those methods start getting applied here.

Ol Aches & Pains
08-09-2003, 08:48 PM
First, let me establish my White Sox credentials, so I don't get labeled as a troll, too. I have been a White Sox fan since I was ten years old, which was 1959, which was the last time our sorry-ass team appeared in the World Series. I've been waiting 44 years for it to happen again, and I'm not getting any younger. I'm excited that they're in first place in August, but my excitement is tempered by a nagging feeling of dread that they'll find a way to blow it yet again. I'm still a Sox fan, but they don't make it easy. I've put up with a lot of crap from this team, from trading Billy Pierce for a couple of stiffs in 1962, to breaking my heart in 1964 and 1967, to getting rid of Harry Caray, to Hawk friggin' Harrelllson as GM for Christsake (remember him moving Carlton Fisk to left field so the immortal Joel Skinner could catch?), to not signing Roger Clemens, to signing Jaime Navarro instead, to the white flag trade in 1997.

But this mope Ligue and his kid has got to be the topper. That was the most disgraceful thing I've ever seen on a baseball field. How the hell can anybody blame the Royals for feeling the way they do? After that idiot judge Holt let the dirtbag off with probation, I think it's a shame one of the Royals didn't break a bat on his skull when they had the chance.

doublem23
08-09-2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
The Sox either need to cut off beer sales a lot earlier, or check ID's a lot tougher because I saw an awful lot of underage people getting plowed.

God, you are so right... NEVER in the history of the world, has someone *gasp* I can't believe I actually came up with this idea... who is (get this) OVER 21 bought booze for someone (ready for the big surprise?) UNDER 21... I'm a friggin' genius

Pud.