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bouldersox
08-06-2003, 07:53 PM
You wouldn't know it to come to a Sox fanatics homesite like this place, but the Sox are shaking up the baseball world with their run for the playoffs.

WSI: Get that chip off your shoulder and instead of highlighting stories questioning Manuel's calls or if the Sox are for real, go with the good karma, dudes!

HELLLLOO! The Sox are Winning!

When I used to come to this site in June of 2000 this place was a blast! Everybody was chiming in positive notes.

Look at the front page of this website. You'd think we were in last place. You'd think our prospects were about as good as the Cubs.

Hey, how about a picture of Ordonez sliding under the tag at the second Sox/Cubs game on the front, or Frank's 2,000, or the gigantic crowds the last three days!

Man, we got a ton of great stuff happening here. Let's see it on this site!!!

chisoxt
08-06-2003, 09:43 PM
You wouldn't know it to come to a Sox fanatics homesite like this place, but the Sox are shaking up the baseball world with their run for the playoffs.

WSI: Get that chip off your shoulder and instead of highlighting stories questioning Manuel's calls or if the Sox are for real, go with the good karma, dudes!

HELLLLOO! The Sox are Winning!

When I used to come to this site in June of 2000 this place was a blast! Everybody was chiming in positive notes.

Look at the front page of this website. You'd think we were in last place. You'd think our prospects were about as good as the Cubs.

Hey, how about a picture of Ordonez sliding under the tag at the second Sox/Cubs game on the front, or Frank's 2,000, or the gigantic crowds the last three days!

Man, we got a ton of great stuff happening here. Let's see it on

this site!!!


Yes, the team has been playing well, and as a Sox fan I couldn't be happier. But that said, you have to be blind or stupid not to have noticed some of the egregious mismanagement of the personnel on this team by the manager, particularly the pitching staff. To turn a blind eye to such incompetence would make you , .....I don't know.......a Cub fan?

If the team amkes the post season it will be inspite of Manuel and not because of him.

Lip Man 1
08-06-2003, 09:48 PM
Well said Chisoxt

Lip

Bucktown
08-07-2003, 12:30 AM
Poor Hal Vickery, this run has really got to be depressing him. His claims of ineptness don't ring quite so loudly anymore.

Let's wad up all that negativity into a tight little ball and let's put that ball into a lock box. Instead let's talk about the good stuff.

LASOXFAN
08-07-2003, 01:10 AM
I agree that Manuel is a constant source of consternation. But facts are facts: he ain't going anywhere, not this season. So what to do? Some like Lip and Hal refuse to give JM credit when he does make a good move. (who can forget Graf's bomb off the bench?) They'll chalk it up to luck. So there's no point trying to convince these guys, they've already tried this case and rendered a guilty verdict and ordered execution. Me? I lost respect for Manuel during the playoffs in 2000. I wish he weren't the manager, but he's not the worst out there in the league.

But bring on the positive vibes, I like it too. And not to rub it in, but isn't that what Jerry's all about?

Go Sox!

TornLabrum
08-07-2003, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by Bucktown
Poor Hal Vickery, this run has really got to be depressing him. His claims of ineptness don't ring quite so loudly anymore.

Let's wad up all that negativity into a tight little ball and let's put that ball into a lock box. Instead let's talk about the good stuff.

So Manuel pulling Garland with nobody out in the sixth Monday night wasn't inept? Do we suddenly have a 10-game lead on KC? Didn't think so. You don't think the little chats that Garland and Gordon had with Manuel show concern on the part of the players as to his ineptness?

And, no, I'm not depressed, thank you. I've been a fan since 1955, and I have one World Series to remember. Manuel hasn't gotten us beyond 3 and out in 2000. Since then he's been a .500 manager.

TornLabrum
08-07-2003, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by LASOXFAN
Some like Lip and Hal refuse to give JM credit when he does make a good move. (who can forget Graf's bomb off the bench?) They'll chalk it up to luck. So there's no point trying to convince these guys, they've already tried this case and rendered a guilty verdict and ordered execution.

Nope. That was a good move. Sorry, I give credit where credit is due. Look at my change in heart regarding Kenny Williams this year. He's no longer Prof. Chaos.

Me? I lost respect for Manuel during the playoffs in 2000. I wish he weren't the manager, but he's not the worst out there in the league.

That's what I want leading us down the stretch: "Not the worst."

"When you care enough to send something better than the worst..."

:jerry

gosox41
08-07-2003, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
So Manuel pulling Garland with nobody out in the sixth Monday night wasn't inept? Do we suddenly have a 10-game lead on KC? Didn't think so. You don't think the little chats that Garland and Gordon had with Manuel show concern on the part of the players as to his ineptness?

And, no, I'm not depressed, thank you. I've been a fan since 1955, and I have one World Series to remember. Manuel hasn't gotten us beyond 3 and out in 2000. Since then he's been a .500 manager.

I burst out laughing when JM talked about Garland seeing him and J Msaying he was experiencing "personal growth." Is JM here to play psychologist or win a World Series. Screw personal growth. I want wins.

Bob

MarqSox
08-07-2003, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
I burst out laughing when JM talked about Garland seeing him and J Msaying he was experiencing "personal growth." Is JM here to play psychologist or win a World Series. Screw personal growth. I want wins.

Bob

He's here to shape young players into big league players. IMO, that is his strongest asset and why he won Manager of the Year in 2000. That said, this is a mostly veteran team now, and thus the Sox no longer need the child psychologist. Still, there's nothing wrong with a 23-year-old pitcher experiencing personal growth, as that always transfers itself to play on the field.

34 Inch Stick
08-07-2003, 11:25 AM
Is second place and six games over .500 in the worst division in baseball really shaking up the baseball world?

I wonder what the Yankees, Red Sox, Mariners and A's would have to say about that (not to mention the NL's Giants and Braves).

The second half success is nice, I am enjoying it and I will love this pennant race, but have some perspective.

Bucktown
08-07-2003, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
So Manuel pulling Garland with nobody out in the sixth Monday night wasn't inept? Do we suddenly have a 10-game lead on KC? Didn't think so. You don't think the little chats that Garland and Gordon had with Manuel show concern on the part of the players as to his ineptness?

And, no, I'm not depressed, thank you. I've been a fan since 1955, and I have one World Series to remember. Manuel hasn't gotten us beyond 3 and out in 2000. Since then he's been a .500 manager.
Here was Garland's line for that game:

5 innings 6 hits 4 runs (all earned) 2 walks 1K 79 pitches.

His team gets him the lead despite this and he goes out and gives up a single to start the 6th inning.

Pulling him was exactly the right thing to do. It was a shame the bullpen blew up, but I saw what Garland had and it was NOT impressive.

We have are 15-5 since the All Star break. Am I hearing that Manuel gets no credit for the 15 win and all of the blame for the 5 losses? Give me a break.

When we win the World Series next year wil we still be calling for Manuel's job because there is no way we can win two in a row with him manager?

34 Inch Stick
08-07-2003, 12:46 PM
No because, God willing, he will be gone by next year.

voodoochile
08-07-2003, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
Here was Garland's line for that game:

5 innings 6 hits 4 runs (all earned) 2 walks 1K 79 pitches.

His team gets him the lead despite this and he goes out and gives up a single to start the 6th inning.

Pulling him was exactly the right thing to do. It was a shame the bullpen blew up, but I saw what Garland had and it was NOT impressive.

We have are 15-5 since the All Star break. Am I hearing that Manuel gets no credit for the 15 win and all of the blame for the 5 losses? Give me a break.

When we win the World Series next year wil we still be calling for Manuel's job because there is no way we can win two in a row with him manager?

The 4th ER was because shoeneweiss melted down. At the time he left the game, he had given up 3 runs and the 4th was at 1B.

Manuel gets credit for going with a set lineup for the most part since the ASG. The one day he tinkered, the team got shelled.

You obviously have a crystal ball or something that tells you this team is going to win the WS NEXT year for the first of 2 in a row. Can you use that ball to tell us which of the multiple FA's will be resigned and which of the Kids used to replace the ones they don't resign will be a star?

Do you honestly think Manuel is the best man for the job? Does he motivate the team? Are they all happy with his management ?(Examples please of players who have publicly defended him, because I have a few examples of players who have ripped him.) Do you think Manuel's use of the bullpen has been optimal? Do you think his decision to let Rick White walk away was smart? Do you think his stance on the Thomas/Konerko 1B issue is correct?

I for one didn't come by my stance that Manuel is an idiot based on one hot or cold string of baseball. I have watched this team sleepwalk for a long time using poor game time decisions, poor fundamentals and lack of emotion. What exactly IS Manuel's job if not those three areas?

This team wins in spite of Jerry Manuel more often than it should ever have to...

PaleHoseGeorge
08-07-2003, 12:58 PM
I'm truly confused by the title of this thread, the points made in the original post, and the subsequent opinions offered here. As the guy who assembles the front page of WSI, help a Sox Fan out with answers to these questions.

1.) What specifically on the FRONT PAGE do you take umbrage with? Please note, I'm not asking (nor do I care) about message board posts. If there is something on the FRONT PAGE you disagree with, let's hear it. An explanation is in order.

2.) If Hal's column is irritating, explain why. Furthermore, explain what is or is not irritating about Dan's column that appears next to it. Is the header honoring Frank Thomas irritating? How about the Soxogram comparing Frank to Ted Williams? Or is it the game recaps, which nobody has mentioned at all? If it is something else pissing you off (like the Sox interviews or the all-star audio), come clean and tell us.

3.) If what really bothers you is the message board posts, why aren't you replying to them? After all, you have equal access--something the sports blab radio hosts and print media editors wouldn't give you in a million years on the airwaves or their letters to the editor space.

Finally, for bouldersox, I'm glad you enjoyed being here so much in 2000. However I shouldn't need to explain the obvious differences now from a season that had the Sox stomping (and fighting) everything in front of them in April, virtually locking up the division after the most glorious June in franchise history, and front-running for the entire season. 2003 has been the polar opposite, including Manuel's 87 different lineups through the all-star game. I'm sure you recall he played virtually the same players in the same positions in the same batting order for the larger portion of that season. Maybe reaching 6 games over .500--after struggling to get above mediocrity for 3 months--and challenging the mighty Kansas City Royals for first-place in the A.L. Central is your idea of a successful season. Please give the rest of us who bother to post here, even when they haven't achieved such a lofty position in the standings, a spoonful of credit for having a bit of perspective on this matter.

pudge
08-07-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Finally, for bouldersox, I'm glad you enjoyed being here so much in 2000. However I shouldn't need to explain the obvious differences now from a season that had the Sox stomping (and fighting) everything in front of them in April, virtually locking up the division after the most glorious June in franchise history, and front-running for the entire season. 2003 has been the polar opposite, including Manuel's 87 different lineups through the all-star game. I'm sure you recall he played virtually the same players in the same positions in the same batting order for the larger portion of that season. Maybe reaching 6 games over .500--after struggling to get above mediocrity for 3 months--and challenging the mighty Kansas City Royals for first-place in the A.L. Central is your idea of a successful season. Please give the rest of us who bother to post here, even when they haven't achieved such a lofty position in the standings, a spoonful of credit for having a bit of perspective on this matter.

PHG is on fire!!!