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View Full Version : Manuel Almost Blows Another Game


Mots09
08-06-2003, 05:07 PM
Flash threw damn near 40 pitches on Monday what in the HELL is he doing throwing him out there again.... Bartolo was crusin let him finish what he started!


GO SOX GO

fledgedrallycap
08-06-2003, 05:13 PM
I've been stuck at work - what happened?? Did they pull Bartolo for Flash in the 9th - then pull Flash for Marte??

emaholic
08-06-2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by fledgedrallycap
I've been stuck at work - what happened?? Did they pull Bartolo for Flash in the 9th - then pull Flash for Marte??

Yep.

Tragg
08-06-2003, 05:16 PM
Tomorrow he can't use flash, marte and probably not Show or Wunsch either - hello ginter.

Mots09
08-06-2003, 05:18 PM
Manuel saying Colon was "Pushing the Ball" and didn't want to take any chances.....

inta
08-06-2003, 05:19 PM
i'm pretty sure tomorrow is an off day, but yeah, our main closers have been kinda spent this past series.

and as much as i love koch, nobody knows him better than oakland and art howe.

mandmandm
08-06-2003, 05:19 PM
Tomorrow there is no baseball.

Mots09
08-06-2003, 05:20 PM
Maybe some slow pitch softball for the guys.

FJA
08-06-2003, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by inta
i'm pretty sure tomorrow is an off day, but yeah, our main closers have been kinda spent this past series.

and as much as i love koch, nobody knows him better than oakland and art howe.

Art Howe is no longer Oakland's manager ... it's Ken Macha.

34 Inch Stick
08-06-2003, 05:21 PM
There is no game tomorrow but your point is well taken. Bartolo had thrown less than 100 pitches (99) and had given up three hits and one walk in 8 innings. He was facing 9, 1, 2 and had owned all three of them all day. If he needed the rest the 10-15 more pitches would not have been overly taxing.

It is like Manuel has a pathological need to put his imprint on every single game.

I need no other additional reasons to seek his dismissal. The day after the season is over Manuel must go.

ssang
08-06-2003, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by inta


and as much as i love koch....



Is this a joke? Did you mean to put that in teal!?!? How can you love Koch? He is so damn bad it's comical. Plus, he's uglier than a fat chick with an extra chromosone!

TraderTim
08-06-2003, 05:27 PM
Bart had a finger blister. Lighten up, folks!

We won. Butt ugly, but we got it done.

Sox baseball. Winning Butt Ugly!!!

Forkit!

HITMEN OF 77
08-06-2003, 05:32 PM
It could have been worse in the 9th in jose didn't make that leaping catch....In this time of the year a win is a win and were only 1 out. I almost hate the Royals as much as the Mariners right now.

MHOUSE
08-06-2003, 05:34 PM
His last two starts Bartolo has looked strong through the 8th, but JM still pulls him. I don't get why he let him go earlier in the season and now won't let him go at all. I guess it came back to bite him before when Colon tired out and now he's afraid to leave him in. But he's over that so learn from it and don't let him pitch a CG every time. But still sometimes when he's only at 99 pitches. Let the bullpen rest and learn how to use your starters, moron! This should have been an easy win. Instead Marte has to pitch AGAIN.

Tragg
08-06-2003, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by mandmandm
Tomorrow there is no baseball.

Ah, thanks - well we need the day off - makes a difference

I doubt we have many off days left

kempsted
08-06-2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Ah, thanks - well we need the day off - makes a difference

I doubt we have many off days left
You are correct. After tomorrow we have only 4 more. The good thing about this one in addition to resting our bullpen -- No 5th starter :smile: :gulp:

CLR01
08-06-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by TraderTim
Bart had a finger blister. Lighten up, folks!

We won. Butt ugly, but we got it done.

Sox baseball. Winning Butt Ugly!!!

Forkit!


Donít even try it. You would have an easier time trying to convince a man on LSD that his sofa is not trying to kill him.

Jerko
08-06-2003, 08:03 PM
What is with Colon? I have never seen a pitcher get injured EVERY time he completes the 8th ininng.

jeremyb1
08-06-2003, 08:12 PM
hmm. it seems to me as though 100 pitches+back injury+blister(s)+dominant closer (prior to his last outing) warm in the pen+off day tommorow+4 run lead+a game in which the same pitcher tired and blew a lead in the 9th earlier in the season should result in calling the pen 100 times out of 100. i have such a hard time taking the criticism of manuel on this board seriously when he makes a decision such as this that any rational, intelligent baseball mind would make and is then accussed of trying to blow the game and make the worst decision possible. you act as though colon had thrown 80 pitches, hadn't showed any signs of slowing down, we were down one run, and then he called in koch. please.

baseballboy
08-06-2003, 09:22 PM
What are you talking about? This guy is a horse and he didnt even reach 100 pitches yet. He had a 3 hitter going with the 9 hitter, 1 hitter, and 2 hitter coming up. You don't take him out even if you do think he is pushing the ball. You try to get him the CG. Your bullpen has been overworked the last few days, it needed the day off. You have no reason at all to take Colon out of the game. 3 more outs with a 4 run lead, you don't take the guy out. NEVER! Especially when he only threw 99 pitches. That is just ridiculous!

Lip Man 1
08-06-2003, 09:55 PM
Folks:

According to the "offical" AP recap Colon's back tightened up in the 8th inning. He felt some twinges so the Sox took the cautious route.

And you guys aren't confident in Matt Ginter?????


After all Kenny Williams said he let White go partially because of "Ginter's potential..." (LOL)

Lip

jeremyb1
08-06-2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by baseballboy
What are you talking about? This guy is a horse and he didnt even reach 100 pitches yet. He had a 3 hitter going with the 9 hitter, 1 hitter, and 2 hitter coming up. You don't take him out even if you do think he is pushing the ball. You try to get him the CG. Your bullpen has been overworked the last few days, it needed the day off. You have no reason at all to take Colon out of the game. 3 more outs with a 4 run lead, you don't take the guy out. NEVER! Especially when he only threw 99 pitches. That is just ridiculous!

i believe i wrote like 6 reasons to take him out. you're only argument here seems to be that you think he's a "horse" and therefore he's completely unaffected and unsusceptible to any and all injuries. that doesn't really cut it for me.

MarkEdward
08-06-2003, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
What is with Colon? I have never seen a pitcher get injured EVERY time he completes the 8th ininng.

I couldn't get to watch much of the game (work), but Rooney and Farmer were almost sure that Colon had a blister.

kevingrt
08-06-2003, 10:07 PM
Colon's back was supposeably strained, and he supposeably said he wanted to come out. Guess Flash was best one to put in in JM's mind...

But who the hell cares, we GOT THE WIN< LIGHTEN UP!

brewcrew/chisox
08-06-2003, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
hmm. it seems to me as though 100 pitches+back injury+blister(s)+dominant closer (prior to his last outing) warm in the pen+off day tommorow+4 run lead+a game in which the same pitcher tired and blew a lead in the 9th earlier in the season should result in calling the pen 100 times out of 100. i have such a hard time taking the criticism of manuel on this board seriously when he makes a decision such as this that any rational, intelligent baseball mind would make and is then accussed of trying to blow the game and make the worst decision possible. you act as though colon had thrown 80 pitches, hadn't showed any signs of slowing down, we were down one run, and then he called in koch. please.


This is the first rational post on this thread. I was at the game, and BC was obviously hurting. The friggn trainer came out, and Bartolo kept bending over and trying to stretch his back between pitches. We were lucky to get out of the 8th, as the Royals were hitting line drives and deep fly balls. I knew BC had to come out, and I would of went with our closer, Flash Gordon as well. I'm just glad that the back injury is not something worse, which could of happened if JM would have left him in for the 9th.

You don't have to give JM credit for doing his job,and I'm all for getting on him when he screws up, but don't falsely criticize the man when the facts show otherwise.

jeremyb1
08-07-2003, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

And you guys aren't confident in Matt Ginter?????

After all Kenny Williams said he let White go partially because of "Ginter's potential..." (LOL)

first of all, i don't see how anything in this thread has anything to do with matt ginter. second of all, i think matt ginter can pitch just as well or better than rick white right now. why not? because he's young? tell that to k-rod and the world champion angels. just because a player is not a veteran does NOT mean the player cannot be effective in the major leagues. just because ginter hasn't been in the league 5 or 6 years that doesn't mean the only reason he's on the roster is because of his potential and he won't get anyone out all season. there's no basis for that assumption. ginter has had several stints with the team and has logged quite a few good innings in charlotte the last several years. the logic that you have to be a veteran to perform is what landed us ritchie and clayton amongst others while we tossed aside guys like wells and fogg. how about we focus on putting guys who can get the job done on the field regardless of age and experience?

Lip Man 1
08-07-2003, 12:30 AM
Jeremy if you read the whole thread you'll see that someone earlier mentioned Ginter.

As far as Rodriguez, Wells and particularly Fogg they have all gone backwards this season. (and Wells has been in the league what five years now?)

Admit it Jeremy your boy Wells will never do squat in the bigs. He'll always be another .500 pitcher. Hell the Sox still have two of those in Garland and Wright so what's the big deal.

Talk to me if Wells ever goes 18-9.

Lip

Lip Man 1
08-07-2003, 12:33 AM
and you mention Ritchie and Clayton....that's because the Sox organization is always looking for the cheap route.

Go out and get some vets in their prime and see what happens instead of "hoping" these low budget guys will come through.

"The only thing rookies do is get managers fired..."--Casey Stengle.

Lip

gosox41
08-07-2003, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by Mots09
Flash threw damn near 40 pitches on Monday what in the HELL is he doing throwing him out there again.... Bartolo was crusin let him finish what he started!


GO SOX GO

Farmio and Rooney were saying Colon may of had a blister. Afterwards JM said Bart's back was stiffening up.

JM still mismanaged the 'pen. Gordon throws 44 pitches on Monday. Warms up on Tuesday, and then is asked to pitch Wednesday. It's too much. It's why Koch isn't that effective today as he was last season...misuse.

Bob

jeremyb1
08-07-2003, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Admit it Jeremy your boy Wells will never do squat in the bigs. He'll always be another .500 pitcher. Hell the Sox still have two of those in Garland and Wright so what's the big deal.

Talk to me if Wells ever goes 18-9.

lip, you've got to be kidding me here. how can you possibly say that wells will never do squat in the big leagues when every worthwhile objective measure of his performance the last two seasons suggests he's already a well above average starter. your argument is comperable to saying "barry bonds will never do squat in the majors, tell me when he actually wins a championship." barry bonds is one of the greatest to ever play the game regardless of whether or not he's ever had a supporting cast good enough to win a world series and kip wells has been an above average starter the past two seasons regardless of whether or not he's had the run support necessary to go 18-9.

kip wells has an era of 3.5 over the past season and a half (that would be second best on our team) with a k/bb ratio near 2. why on earth don't we want him on our team? because he's 26 and hasn't won 18 games yet? yeah, trading kip wells was the best thing that ever happened to this team.

maurice
08-07-2003, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
JM still mismanaged the 'pen. Gordon throws 44 pitches on Monday. Warms up on Tuesday, and then is asked to pitch Wednesday. It's too much.

Ditto. Even if there was a good reason to take Colon out, he should have inserted Marte instead of Gordon. Gordon was clear that he felt misused and worn out. Marte only threw 1.1 innings on Tuesday and didn't pitch at all on Monday.

:jerry
"But we needed to preserve the righty-righty matchup for the .250 hitting Joe DiFelice and the .253 hitting Joe Randa."

baseballboy
08-07-2003, 01:39 PM
why do you people insist on taking a national league pitchers numbers and comparing them to american league players? That is not the smartest thing to do. Ya think?

Hangar18
08-07-2003, 01:40 PM
barts back was hurting him.....so this wasnt a bad move.
Just that Tom Gas Can Gordon couldnt get the outs....
were good now.

Gumshoe
08-07-2003, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by baseballboy
why do you people insist on taking a national league pitchers numbers and comparing them to american league players? That is not the smartest thing to do. Ya think?

Finally baseballboy makes a good point. I hope he still is not sucking Koch

Gumshoe