Carl Everett .....I dont like him anymore [Archive]

Hangar18

08-06-2003, 07:50 AM

This guy has NOT been hitting since hes gotten here, and has STOPPED many a rally the sox were having. Sure, he had 5 ribbies in a game that everyone else hit also. His CF defense is BRUTAL and everyone knows its easy to RUN ON HIM. His first game here....he misplayed a couple of hits that led to runs. in KC, he took too long getting to a couple of hits in the gap, and everyone Took the Extra Base on Him. Mondays game against KC, Not one single runner stopped at 2B yesterday, instead Choosing to head straight to 3B on every hit. Crazy. Last nite.... Aaron Guile to lead the game off, singles to Center....and promptly legs it out for a Double (leading to a run) because Everett is simply
1. Lazy
2. Slow
3. Not Very Smart

Choice #3 is interesting, because in the KC series, these guys are fast, and Challenged him every Chance they could and basically made him look bad. Now if im Everett, I would have a memory and REMEMBER that these dang runners are always trying to take the extra base....does he get it? No he doesnt

delben91

08-06-2003, 07:53 AM

:jerry
"Hmmm, how about DHing Everett, putting Frank at first, and Konerko or Daubach in centerfield....Carl needs some rest anyway, he's played 2 days in a row at least."

dickallen15

08-06-2003, 07:59 AM

I'll tell you what, Frank would be no worse in CF than Everett. He is the most brutal CF I have ever seen. I don't think he's lazy, he just gets no jump or has any closing speed to the ball. The other play last night that bothered me was when Magglio had to go about 200 ft. to make a circus catch in right center. If Rowand was in CF its a can of corn, but Everett was nowhere near the ball. I do believe he will start hitting though.

Hokiesox

08-06-2003, 08:02 AM

not liking everett now implies you liked him at one time. Maybe that was your problem to begin with. He looks like Sham-me before he "bulked up." Sham-me was mediocre with the Sox and I don't expect Everett to be any different.

Hangar18

08-06-2003, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by Hokiesox
not liking everett now implies you liked him at one time. Maybe that was your problem to begin with. He looks like Sham-me before he "bulked up." Sham-me was mediocre with the Sox and I don't expect Everett to be any different.

hmmm, a little play on words there. Lets just say I was "excited" when I heard we traded for him. I didnt realize he would be this bad in Center Field. He is Quietly costing us games and we dont even REALIZE IT YET.

Hokiesox

08-06-2003, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by Hangar18
hmmm, a little play on words there. Lets just say I was "excited" when I heard we traded for him. I didnt realize he would be this bad in Center Field. He is Quietly costing us games and we dont even REALIZE IT YET.

Now we do! :)

maurice

08-06-2003, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Hangar18
Everett is simply
1. Lazy
2. Slow
3. Not Very Smart

The answer is #2. He is several steps slower than he was earlier in his career. That's why he was a corner OF in Texas, and should primarily play LF or DH here. In response to your other options:

1. He doesn't appear to be lazy. He tries to hustle (as opposed to, say, Jimenez or sometimes Ordonez) but apparently has problems with his knees. Watch him run down the line on ground ball outs.

3. As flat-Earthers go, Everret seems to be fairly bright. (Lots of intelligent people believe really odd things.) He was quite the nutcase earlier in his career but has calmed down in his old age.

Dadawg_77

08-06-2003, 10:26 AM

The thing is where do you put him if not CF? LF? DH? Bench? Not the three greatest choices in the world but all better then him in CF given his current production at the plate.

Paulwny

08-06-2003, 10:34 AM

4-5 yrs ago Maggs played some cf, I think moving Everett to rf and Maggs to cf is worth a shot.

ma-gaga

08-06-2003, 10:40 AM

Everett sucked before the Sox traded for him. He had ONE incredibly HOT month this year. It's a travesty that he was named to the all-star game.

It's probably his knee...

gosox41

08-06-2003, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by ma-gaga
Everett sucked before the Sox traded for him. He had ONE incredibly HOT month this year. It's a travesty that he was named to the all-star game.

It's probably his knee...

Could be his hip.

kempsted

08-06-2003, 10:59 AM

Guys, lets not run on emotion. Everett was 9-23 (.391) in his last 6 games and 20-67 in his last 19. He had 5 RBI Friday night. I agree he is not the best CF, but he is as good as Rowand. He is not better than Harris but Harris is batting under 200.

Max Power

08-06-2003, 11:01 AM

One thing I really noticed when I was sitting UD behind the plate on Mon is that he doesn't seem to read the ball off the bat very well. There were at least 3 line drives hit to him that he stood and watched forever before breaking forward on them, and then they all landed like 3 feet in front of him. It was very frustrating to watch.

Dadawg_77

08-06-2003, 11:03 AM

Hangar18

08-06-2003, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Max Power
One thing I really noticed when I was sitting UD behind the plate on Mon is that he doesn't seem to read the ball off the bat very well. There were at least 3 line drives hit to him that he stood and watched forever before breaking forward on them, and then they all landed like 3 feet in front of him. It was very frustrating to watch.

exactly. Rowand wouldve gotten to those balls, and at least stopped these guys from taking 3rd base on us every Base Hit,
I mean c'mon man. Doesnt he have any Pride? Id be pissed if everyone kept taking extra bags on me. I'll tell you something.....Brent Mayne hit one into the gap last week in KC, late in the game, and Mayne rounded First and was motoring to Second......except South Side Willie was in Center and had already Cut The BALL OFF, and was already Firing to 2b for the Easy Put Out. That was excellent, because i know MAYNE THOUGHT EVERETT WAS STILL IN CENTER

maurice

08-06-2003, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by kempsted
Everett . . . is not the best CF, but he is as good as Rowand. He is not better than Harris but Harris is batting under 200.

Defensively, they rank:

1. Rowand
2. Harris
3. Everett

None of them read the ball off the bat very well, but Rowand and Harris have significantly more speed to help make up for it.

Offensively, they rank:

1. Everett
2. Rowand
. . .
497. Harris

However, Everett hasn't show much power for us, while Rowand has been very hot at the plate. If Everett starts hitting like he did early in the season, you'll hear fewer gripes about his defense.

VaSoxfan

08-06-2003, 11:11 AM

I have to disagree. Everett may be a liablity in the field, but offensively he's the best option they have in CF. I'm just not buying the Rowand hype. Maybe they can move him somewhere where they can keep his bat in the lineup. I'd rather have him at the plate then Rowand or Harris any day of the week.

Hangar18

08-06-2003, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by maurice
Defensively, they rank:

1. Rowand
2. Harris
3. Everett

None of them read the ball off the bat very well, but Rowand and Harris have significantly more speed to help make up for it.

Offensively, they rank:

1. Everett
2. Rowand
. . .
497. Harris

However, Everett hasn't show much power for us, while Rowand has been very hot at the plate. If Everett starts hitting like he did early in the season, you'll hear fewer gripes about his defense.

True...hes a ONE - Dimensional player right now who is MISSING THE ONE DIMENSION WE GOT HIM FOR

VaSoxfan

08-06-2003, 11:17 AM

Rowand has only been "very hot" at the plate for what, maybe a month? Up until early July he was consistently batting around .200 or below it.

Hangar18

08-06-2003, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by VaSoxfan
Rowand has only been "very hot" at the plate for what, maybe a month? Up until early July he was consistently batting around .200 or below it.

yes...but heres our "Options"

Player A: cold with bat (but could get "hot") and very bad defensively right now

Player B: Very HOT with bat right now, and better defensively

Hmmm, Alex, im taking Player B for now.....

voodoochile

08-06-2003, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Hangar18
yes...but heres our "Options"

Player A: cold with bat (but could get "hot") and very bad defensively right now

Player B: Very HOT with bat right now, and better defensively

Hmmm, Alex, im taking Player B for now.....

Rowand's bat is hot? Everett's is not? Have you checked their stats this past week?

Everett has been very solid offensively.

brewcrew/chisox

08-06-2003, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Hangar18
Last nite.... Aaron Guile to lead the game off, singles to Center....and promptly legs it out for a Double (leading to a run) because Everett is simply
1. Lazy
2. Slow
3. Not Very Smart

Hangar18,

While I somwhat agree that Everett has been slow in picking up fly balls in CF, the above statement is simply not true. If you remember, Guile was, in fact, called out on that play by the umpire, but then realized that Valentin had dropped the ball. Everett's throw was in time, but it was Valentin who didn't do his job.

Hangar18

08-06-2003, 11:40 AM

Someone did post his stats...he got a ton of hits in that blowout in seattle.... thats where most of his hits have been. I guess im thinking of the Solid, meaningful hits, the kind that START RALLIES, instead of End them like hes done very much lately.
I wouldnt mind him, if his bat was smokin' right now. But what good is it if his "defense" puts a runner at third and eventually scores....and he hits a homer? Hes basically negating the run he gave them in the first place. Those balls KC hit all over the place Monday.....he shouldve stopped a FEW OF THEM AT LEAST.....his D allowed that rally to keep on going......
Dont get me wrong, our pitchers have to rise above that, but im telling you, some of the plays hes NOT MAKING, are hurting us.
Flyballs turning into Singles.....singles allowing runners to hit third (allowing any contact w ball to score that run, putting us behind immediately) throwing to wrong cutoff man, allowing runners to take 2nd..... etc

Foulke You

08-06-2003, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Hangar18
yes...but heres our "Options"

Player A: cold with bat (but could get "hot") and very bad defensively right now

Player B: Very HOT with bat right now, and better defensively

Hmmm, Alex, im taking Player B for now.....

I have to disagree here Hangar. In a playoff push, I'll go with the veteran Everett who has a history of being a big RBI guy. The power offense makes the White Sox go. This is what our team is built around so we have to put the players out there that give our offense the most potency. We need to score runs and have explosive innings. We are a slugging team and we need to hit the long ball and doubles that bounce off the outfield wall if we are going to win. There is no small ball played at 35th and Shields, not with this bunch. When Everett gets hot (and he will), it will be like having another Frank or Carlos in the lineup. His bat is capable of being a very potent asset to our offense. He didn't just have one hot month, he's been pretty darn good his whole career. Rowand is a singles type of hitter. Everett is a doubles, HR, RBI machine when he is on.

As far as his defense goes, he is a corner outfielder that is playing out of position right now as we all know. It is comparable to Carlos Lee playing CF but since there is nowhere else to put Everett, that is where he stays. However, it seems to me that Everett plays better defense on the road. I don't know if I'm imagining it but I see him get to more fly balls and line drives on the road than at our park. DJ has said in the past on TV that Comiskey is one of the tougher parks to judge flyballs due to the swirling winds making it tough to get a good jump. Perhaps Carl will get used to it as he plays more out there.

The other disagreement I have with you Hangar is your perceived lack of hustle on Carl's part. Everett's hustle is actually one of the things I like about him. You can tell he isn't dogging it out there. As a previous poster pointed out, watch him bust down that line on a routine grounder. Watch his facial expressions after he makes an out, his disappointment is almost at Konerko levels. He isn't speedy which is why you can possibly view it as lethargic but Konerko isn't speedy either and we all know he hustles.

voodoochile

08-06-2003, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Hangar18
Someone did post his stats...he got a ton of hits in that blowout in seattle.... thats where most of his hits have been. I guess im thinking of the Solid, meaningful hits, the kind that START RALLIES, instead of End them like hes done very much lately.
I wouldnt mind him, if his bat was smokin' right now. But what good is it if his "defense" puts a runner at third and eventually scores....and he hits a homer? Hes basically negating the run he gave them in the first place. Those balls KC hit all over the place Monday.....he shouldve stopped a FEW OF THEM AT LEAST.....his D allowed that rally to keep on going......
Dont get me wrong, our pitchers have to rise above that, but im telling you, some of the plays hes NOT MAKING, are hurting us.
Flyballs turning into Singles.....singles allowing runners to hit third (allowing any contact w ball to score that run, putting us behind immediately) throwing to wrong cutoff man, allowing runners to take 2nd..... etc

I agree about Everett's defense being shaky at best, but he hit 18 homeruns in the first 2+ months of this season. I think he might hit 10 between now and the end of the year, 14 if he gets hot. Let him play regularly for a while and see what happens, IMO. Everett has WAY more offensive upside than either of the other two and he is starting to hit the ball (.330 with 7 RBI over the last 7 games, IIRC).

pudge

08-06-2003, 11:50 AM

Everett is busting his tail out there, he's just not that good of a hitter, never has been, and is not at all equipped for CF. I wish we would have used those prospects on a #5 starter, we'd be better off down the stretch.

Hangar18

08-06-2003, 11:52 AM

FOulkeYou....I may have to agree onthe hustle part...Man, I hope this guy gets his bat together QUICK before it outweighs his Defense....... I heard something about him yelling at Frank, who was on second to be ready it was two outs. lets see how he does today....

voodoochile

08-06-2003, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Hangar18
I heard something about him yelling at Frank, who was on second to be ready it was two outs. lets see how he does today....

Really? Cool. I love that stuff. Sox need more players who are aware of game situations who will keep the other players sharp. Everett and Alomar both do that.

Gumshoe

08-06-2003, 12:13 PM

If someone else already post this, forgive me, but I could NOT believe what I saw last night in CF. This isn't exaggerated at all, either:

That ball that was hit into the Right Center gap (more towards Center) that Magglio caught last night, that play was unbelievable. The ball was caught at the All Star logo, and Carl Everett was not even 15 feet from that spot! Magglio was acting as a CF. He must have gotten a terrible jump --- I don't know where he was starting at, but god o'mighty, i could'nt believe that our RF was in CF making a play where the CF was not even NEAR it.

did anyone else see this? I'd much rather have Willie Harris out there D-wise than CE. Obviously, you guys know I'm about Rowand in CF, but sheesh, CE has only 2 hits, a 3 run homer against SEA and a 2 run single vs. Cleveland since he's been here

Gumshoe

Hangar18

08-06-2003, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Gumshoe
If someone else already post this, forgive me, but I could NOT believe what I saw last night in CF. This isn't exaggerated at all, either:

That ball that was hit into the Right Center gap (more towards Center) that Magglio caught last night, that play was unbelievable. The ball was caught at the All Star logo, and Carl Everett was not even 15 feet from that spot! Magglio was acting as a CF. He must have gotten a terrible jump --- I don't know where he was starting at, but god o'mighty, i could'nt believe that our RF was in CF making a play where the CF was not even NEAR it.

did anyone else see this? I'd much rather have Willie Harris out there D-wise than CE. Obviously, you guys know I'm about Rowand in CF, but sheesh, CE has only 2 hits, a 3 run homer against SEA and a 2 run single vs. Cleveland since he's been here

Gumshoe

YUPPP!! I forgot about that......old age i guess. Yeah,,,
Magglio pretty much caught what should have been the CenterFielders Ball. Im not sure if he got a bad jump, and Maggs covered for him.....that is definitely another example
of his stellar defense.

voodoochile

08-06-2003, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Gumshoe
did anyone else see this? I'd much rather have Willie Harris out there D-wise than CE. Obviously, you guys know I'm about Rowand in CF, but sheesh, CE has only 2 hits, a 3 run homer against SEA and a 2 run single vs. Cleveland since he's been here

Gumshoe

I assume you were using hyperbole to make a point, but didn't Carl drive in two pretty big runs in Toronto to help win a game? Didn't he drive in a run on Monday before Jerry and the bullpen conspired to blow the game? Didn't he reach base 3 times on Sunday with no one on in front of him? Didn't Rowand actively fail to drive him in from second base twice in that same game?

Play Everett until he proves his bat won't make up for his defensive problems.

WhiteSox = Life

08-06-2003, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by voodoochile
I assume you were using hyperbole to make a point, but didn't Carl drive in two pretty big runs in Toronto to help win a game? Didn't he drive in a run on Monday before Jerry and the bullpen conspired to blow the game? Didn't he reach base 3 times on Sunday with no one on in front of him? Didn't Rowand actively fail to drive him in from second base twice in that same game?

Play Everett until he proves his bat won't make up for his defensive problems.

Everett has come up with some key hits, but his defense has been atrocious. I would agree with you about playing Everett till his bat doesn't make up for his defensive problems, if he weren't playing center field. Isn't it strength up the middle? Robbie and Jose are a prett good tandem and Olivo has been catching very well (hope he recovers fast). Meanwhile, Mr. No Range continually misses fly balls that most center fielders in baseball would make. Despite his big hits, he's constantly letting balls drop in the outfield, which help lead to runs for the opposition. Then, he needs to come up with big hits just to make up for the runs he helped give up by not being able to catch fly balls.

The solution, unfortunately, is there isn't really, except to keep playing Everett. Unless he goes into a huge slump, and that's compounded by his defense, or lack thereof, he'll be in the starting lineup most of the time.

maurice

08-06-2003, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by voodoochile
Rowand's bat is hot? Everett's is not? Have you checked their stats this past week?

DISCLAIMER: the sample sizes are RIDICULOUSLY small, but I'll bite. OPS over the last seven days, according to ESPN:

Everett: .895
Rowand: 1.167

Rowand has twice as many extra-base hits despite 20 fewer ABs. Since the beginning of July, Everett's OPS has been about .700, while Rowand's is well over 1.000.

While Everett should be the better offensive player (see my post above), there's no question that Rowand's bat has been MUCH hotter for quite some time now.

Hangar18

08-06-2003, 01:25 PM

voodoochile

08-06-2003, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by maurice
DISCLAIMER: the sample sizes are RIDICULOUSLY small, but I'll bite. OPS over the last seven days, according to ESPN:

Everett: .895
Rowand: 1.167

Rowand has twice as many extra-base hits despite 20 fewer ABs. Since the beginning of July, Everett's OPS has been about .700, while Rowand's is well over 1.000.

While Everett should be the better offensive player (see my post above), there's no question that Rowand's bat has been MUCH hotter for quite some time now.

The sample size is horrible for Rowand because he has how many at bats? Everett has played everygame in that time span. Everett's bat will bring more to the Sox over the last 2 months of the season than Rowand in addition he will bring game awareness and attitude. I can live with that...

maurice

08-06-2003, 05:43 PM

Dude, the sample size is not remotely statistically significant for EITHER of them (which is why I included the stats since July 1). Per my last post, the seven days thing was specifically in compliance with YOUR request that we "check[] their stats this past week." They don't support your argument.

The Sox expected power out of Everret, which is why he's batting fifth. So far, he's been disappointing. We'll see how he does from here on out. I have ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPN Classic, but I don't have ESP.

:)

southsidegirl

08-06-2003, 10:36 PM

i think i know what my 7th grade gym teacher would say to him every time he doesnt get to the ball on time

"THIS IS NOT A LEISURELY STROLL!!!!!!!!"

tacosalbarojas

08-06-2003, 10:58 PM

Gumshoe: wasn't that play something else? I was fuming over that. Look, it's obvious Everett can't play center. If it's more than ten feet away from him in any direction, he's not getting it. I think both Konerko and Rowand getting hot this month as Everett arrived was not at all coincidental, so the acquisition paid dividends in that respect.

I'm also still attempting to bring myself to root for a guy who believes in dinosaurs.

Gumshoe

08-07-2003, 10:34 AM

Carl se lleva un cargo de mierda en sus pantalones, está claro.

The guy can't even get within 15 of a DEEP fly ball? Yes, that was the last straw for me ... I don't care where he is playing. It's just really funny to me that we bring in Willie to play CF at the end of games now.

Tacos, I'm glad you saw the same thing. I was at that game, as I said, and was stupefied.

Gumshoe

ps - if the guy hits and plays average D, fine. He can believe in Aliens stopping the Red Sox or Cubs from winning, I don't care. But with the D I've seen, man there is no way he hits to make up for it and even if he could he'd have to go on a TEAR.

tacosalbarojas

08-07-2003, 02:10 PM

Gumshoe,

Muy bien! Carl es totalmente inutil en el jardin centro, que no?

While we're on the topic of Spanish (mi vocabulario necesita mucho trabajo!) I must reveal the awful truth that our Cy Young candidate, Esteban Loaiza has all the Spanish language skills of third-grader. His family was at the all-star game bedecked in game-worn Loaiza jerseys, many of which were autographed in the olde english SOX symbol. I got a good look at a couple, one of which was signed to his "subrino" and another signed "departe de...Esteban Loaiza." I love Este for what he's done this year, but even I know one's nephew is a "sobrino" and "de parte" is two words, not one. Like you said about Everett, as long as the man keeps winning. Or as Jim Bouton once put it, we often substitute ERA and batting average for smarts.