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balboner
08-04-2003, 11:37 PM
Could someone possibly manage as bad as Manuel has the last three games? He's completely killed this team's momentum. If we lose with Loaiza tomorrow, we're in deep

Lip Man 1
08-04-2003, 11:40 PM
These are the REAL White Sox...it's over let's just hope for a winning season and Manuel's firing.

Lip

pudge
08-04-2003, 11:44 PM
The real Lip has returned!

Manuel really let the team down. Taking out Garland caused this game to implode. And why not Kelly Wunsch over Schoenweis? Rick White was on the money. Is it too late to get him back?

If we win this division, it will be in spite of JM.

JJAustin69
08-04-2003, 11:53 PM
If you want to see a real manager, look no further than the visitors dugout. Those guys are ready to run through a wall for him, whereas ours are ready to throw JM through one. :angry:

duke of dorwood
08-04-2003, 11:58 PM
Manual cannot win, he cannot manage a MAJOR LEAGUE team-its a mismatch.

:jerry

DOLT DOLT DOLT DOLT DOLT DOLT DOLT DOLT DOLT DOLT DOLT DOLT DOLT DOLT

Medford Bobby
08-05-2003, 12:02 AM
Boy I agree even though I couldn't stand Sutcliffe strokin his team (KC broadcaster) he made alot of points how this team worked on special spring training drills that THESE Sox would not bother if it ran into T-time. Like Lip says, these are the real White Sox. They are either going to beat themselves like tonight, or actually play like :angry: they want to go to the World Series.
And I dont have that feeling of this club like in the 2000 season. This could be a streaky team that could tank 7 games, and be out of it again. :whiner:

gosox41
08-05-2003, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by Medford Bobby
Boy I agree even though I couldn't stand Sutcliffe strokin his team (KC broadcaster) he made alot of points how this team worked on special spring training drills that THESE Sox would not bother if it ran into T-time. Like Lip says, these are the real White Sox. They are either going to beat themselves like tonight, or actually play like :angry: they want to go to the World Series.
And I dont have that feeling of this club like in the 2000 season. This could be a streaky team that could tank 7 games, and be out of it again. :whiner:

So much for the boot camp atmosphere in spring trainning.

Bob

gosox41
08-05-2003, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by balboner
Could someone possibly manage as bad as Manuel has the last three games? He's completely killed this team's momentum. If we lose with Loaiza tomorrow, we're in deep

I'm thinking the Sox should hire the Carbon Rod used on the Simpson's. At least it one employee of the month once at the plant.

Bob

MHOUSE
08-05-2003, 12:44 AM
Manuel sucks. He's a nice enough guy, but he's a moron. We need a guy like Eric Wedge or KC's Pena. These guys have gotten the most out of the talent they're given and JM has his team win in spite of him. With the guys we have and their potential, imagine what a real manager could do.

jeremyb1
08-05-2003, 12:51 AM
there's no way anyone can argue that manuel put us in a significantly worse position to win this game by lifting garland for shoenweis. there were four lefties in a row up and shoenweis absolutely dominates lefties, that's the role he's most suitable for and therefore he should be used in roles similar to the one he was used in today.

the move manuel made was stupid because 1) garland was still pitching well 2) he risked depleting the pen which i'd say happened considering gordon pitched two innings in a game we lost by four runs. to say that garland was a better bet to hold them in the 6th though or that it was in any way shape or form foreseeable that bringing in shoenweis would lead to a 7 run inning is completely assanine.

FJA
08-05-2003, 01:00 AM
I don't know if anyone listened to Wills' extended postgame show, but Bruce Levine said Garland wouldn't talk other than saying something to the effect of "anything I say now is just going to come out wrong and it's going to create trouble, so I'm sorry, but I'll just not comment."

The implications from Levine were that Garland is pissed. I think this could really come back to haunt us, considering we already don't have a fifth starter. Now, our fourth starter is unhappy because his manager all but told him he doesn't have any confidence in said pitcher's ability to pitch in a tight situation, important game.

So basically, if confidence has anything to do with the way Garland has been performing of late, Manuel might have just shot that to death.

gosox41
08-05-2003, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by FJA
I don't know if anyone listened to Wills' extended postgame show, but Bruce Levine said Garland wouldn't talk other than saying something to the effect of "anything I say now is just going to come out wrong and it's going to create trouble, so I'm sorry, but I'll just not comment."

The implications from Levine were that Garland is pissed. I think this could really come back to haunt us, considering we already don't have a fifth starter. Now, our fifth starter is unhappy because his manager all but told him he doesn't have any confidence in said pitcher's ability to pitch in a tight situation, important game.

So basically, if confidence has anything to do with the way Garland has been performing of late, Manuel might have just shot that to death.

I saw the look on Garland's face when JM awoke from his nap to take him out of the game. He looked like he was ready to strangle JM.

Anyone remember that Yankee game in June of 2002 when JM let Garland come out for the 9th inning of the game in which he had just over 100 pitches thrown and was dominating. JG lost the game. A day later Buehrle is pitching great, and he pulls Buehrle when he's winning and the bullpen blows the game. Today he reached an all time low with JG by pulling him after 80 pitches.

Does this guy have a plan when he manages or is he trying to lose and get fired??

Bob

TornLabrum
08-05-2003, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by FJA
I don't know if anyone listened to Wills' extended postgame show, but Bruce Levine said Garland wouldn't talk other than saying something to the effect of "anything I say now is just going to come out wrong and it's going to create trouble, so I'm sorry, but I'll just not comment."

The implications from Levine were that Garland is pissed. I think this could really come back to haunt us, considering we already don't have a fifth starter. Now, our fourth starter is unhappy because his manager all but told him he doesn't have any confidence in said pitcher's ability to pitch in a tight situation, important game.

So basically, if confidence has anything to do with the way Garland has been performing of late, Manuel might have just shot that to death.

This leads to something that was said on another thread about the fact that White badmouthed his manager while the manager doesn't badmouth his players.

I would say that Manuel's attitude about Jon Garland came out loud and clear tonight. He didn't have to say, "I have absolutely no confidence in Jon Garland's being able to pitch in an important game." His pulling of Garland tonight said more than Manuel ever could have with just his mouth.

No, Manuel doesn't badmouth his players, but Garland was pulled after a single that Konerko should have fielded. Thomas is no longer playing first base. Keith Foulke is in Oakland. Ray Durham is in San Francisco. That's just off the top of my head, and guess what they all have in common?

ncfan
08-05-2003, 09:12 AM
Looking at the KC dugout last night tells you who will take the
A.L. central this year. They are a fired up fundamental team.
We can not win it with the long ball. We have no situational
hitting at all with men on base. We leave six to twelve every
game. The defense is a step or two slow. Up the middle they
seem confused. We have a lumbering centerfielder. A first
baseman with a hole in his mitt. A third baseman who needs
to learn to catch the ball before appling the tag. We have four
good starting pitchers, but if they have trouble going six or
seven we are lost with are bullpen. And a Manager who has
trouble motivating a team, and its fans. I say a third place
finish this year, if Cleveland don`t get hot.
I am ready for some football!!

Hangar18
08-05-2003, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by JJAustin69
If you want to see a real manager, look no further than the visitors dugout. Those guys are ready to run through a wall for him, whereas ours are ready to throw JM through one. :angry:

Someone else brought this up just recently. Im really liking the
job hes doing over in KC. The guy gets fired up.....He used to be a ballplayer.....Hes latin, something I believe wouldve/couldve worked very well in a city like Chicago with a huge latin population (not to mention several major latin stars on the team)
and settled MLB's fancy of hiring qualified minority candidates.

What are the chances that the Royals Mgmt miraculously lets Pena "go", and every other team in the MLB passes on interviewing him, and he somehow inexplicably falls into the White Sox' lap, and we were to Hire Him? This would also fall into Reinsdorfs MO in hiring minorities.

FoulkeFan
08-05-2003, 10:06 AM
Call me "assanine" if you will, but I think taking Garland out in the 6th inning having thrown only 79 pitches was absolutely ridiculous and I said it at the time ( I was at the game last night). Last week in KC, Garland gives up 4 runs and then shuts them down the rest of the way. In the paper today, Manuel was quoted as saying he thought Garland had trouble giving up runs after the Sox regained the lead. Where was he last week?!? It must have been nap time when Garland pitched those 4 scoreless innings in KC. I'm sorry, you don't go to this bullpen in the 6th inning unless you're really in trouble. I am so sick of Manuel's lefty/righty BS!