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Unregistered
08-02-2003, 04:16 AM
to make room for Danny "Can't Pitch" (W)right. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I'm thinking let's just get this over with and chalk tomorrow up as a loss...

A.T. Money
08-02-2003, 04:21 AM
I'm glad Rick White went down. That'll teach him to open his mouth.

Kilroy
08-02-2003, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by Unregistered
to make room for Danny "Can't Pitch" (W)right. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I'm thinking let's just get this over with and chalk tomorrow up as a loss...

On the surface, it looks like White is paying for his comments last week by being banished. But, he's really the logical choice. His last two outings have earned him this trip to AAA. It was either him or Ginter, and Ginter hasn't pitched poorly, giving up nothing in his 1 inning pitched.

Maybe White goes down and gets a chip on his shoulder. He actually had looked pretty good before his last 2 outings.

DrCrawdad
08-02-2003, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by Unregistered
to make room for Danny "Can't Pitch" (W)right. Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I'm thinking let's just get this over with and chalk tomorrow up as a loss...

After the game, the White Sox recalled RHP Dan Wright from Triple-A Charlotte...

To make room for Wright on their 25-man roster, the White Sox designated RHP Rick White for assignment. White, a reliever, had a 1-2 record with one save and a 6.61 ERA in 34 games for Chicago this season. White was signed by the White Sox as a free agent in January. - Yahoo Sports

So was White Designated For Assignment (DFA) and then sent to AAA? Or is it yet to be determined what happens to White (ala Armando Rios, who was "DFA" and then Rios accepted a AAA assignment).

white sox bill
08-02-2003, 09:12 AM
I guess I missed his comments, what exactly did he say?

koch44
08-02-2003, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by white sox bill
I guess I missed his comments, what exactly did he say?

He blasted Manuel for not knowing what his role on the team was.

PaleHoseGeorge
08-02-2003, 09:56 AM
Can White be sent to AAA? Doesn't he have to clear waivers first? I thought he was being released.

HawkDJ
08-02-2003, 11:42 AM
According to the Daily Herald: White was designated for assignment. He is not expected to remain with the organization.


So looks like we can say goodbye to White forever.

harwar
08-02-2003, 11:51 AM
Outright release would be a BIG mistake.Send the guy down as a punishment and while hes' down there he gets his head on straight and comes back up as an effective right-hander(which is what we need right now).

gosox41
08-02-2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by HawkDJ
According to the Daily Herald:

So looks like we can say goodbye to White forever.

White had his moments where he was effective. He's pitched well from June until his last 2 outings. I don't really like losing him without someone proven to replace him. I think it's a mistake.

Bob

voodoochile
08-02-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
White had his moments where he was effective. He's pitched well from June until his last 2 outings. I don't really like losing him without someone proven to replace him. I think it's a mistake.

Bob

I agree. If this ends up being a dump White move, it is a mistake, IMO.

TornLabrum
08-02-2003, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I agree. If this ends up being a dump White move, it is a mistake, IMO.

He insulted Gen. Disarray. That's a capital crime in the Sox organization. The only person you can rip in public if you're a Sox player is Frank Thomas. If you do that, you get rewarded with playing time even when you're hitting below .200, and then chosen over Thomas as first baseman even though Frank hits better when he plays there.

RKMeibalane
08-02-2003, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
He insulted Gen. Disarray. That's a capital crime in the Sox organization. The only person you can rip in public if you're a Sox player is Frank Thomas. If you do that, you get rewarded with playing time even when you're hitting below .200, and then chosen over Thomas as first baseman even though Frank hits better when he plays there.

I agree. Jerry Manuel doesn't lift a finger when someone insults Frank Thomas, yet whenever someone badmouths him, something like this happens.

White has pitched well since June, with the exception of one or two bad outings. I have more confidence in his ability to get guys out than I do in Billy Koch. If he does in fact go elsewhere, the Sox organization has made a mistake. The bullpen is still a mess, even with the additions of Ginter and Schoneweis. Releasing White for speaking his mind is not going to solve this problem.

Even when the Sox are winning, they still manage to screw things up. Great job, guys.

SoxFanDan
08-02-2003, 12:36 PM
I have a strange feeling that Sr. White's place in the bullpen will be taken by Wright.

pudge
08-02-2003, 12:48 PM
The young players seem to like him too... I hope this doesn't have any negative ripple effects in the clubhouse...

OEO Magglio
08-02-2003, 12:56 PM
Rick White has pitched very well at times this season, but I really believe if Ginter gets his chance, I think that he will pitch better then White, I have a lot of faith in Ginter even though he hasn't proven anything in the majors yet.

manuelsucks
08-02-2003, 01:00 PM
I have to disagree with you guys. I think it would be a good thing if White leaves. He hasn't pitched anything good since June, and he hasn't shown any glimpse of improvement. On top of that, the comments he made were just unacceptable for anyone to say, including Thomas. The whole team had an upbeat attitude, while Rick White was calling out Manuel, who IMO has made some pretty good decisions since after the break. Taking him off the team would be too bad with the new guy Schoenweies (however it's spelled :?: ), Gordon, Marte, Koch. Plus our starters have averaged about 7 innings which is just fine to bring in a pitcher from the bullpen. With Koch making a turn around, I don't see any negative in this situation.

The whole situation slightly reminds me of Royce...

gogosoxgogo
08-02-2003, 01:05 PM
Yes! So long fat ass! I can't believe some of you are against this move. Rick White sucks - plain and simple. He had ONE good week this year, that's it. Now because of that week, some of you think that this guy is a good pitcher. He's not! He doesn't know what he's doing on the mound. That one week was a fluke against a bunch of crappy teams in a low pressure environment. Don't let the door hit your fat ass on the way out White!

Scotty347
08-02-2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
Rick White sucks - plain and simple.


I couldn't agree more. Rick White will not be missed. Good riddance.

duke of dorwood
08-02-2003, 01:49 PM
Wonder why the Cards. who need any kind of pitching, havent inquired? Maybe the mouth was at work there too.

HawkDJ
08-02-2003, 01:51 PM
Some quotes from KW:
The one thing we certainly want is everybody on the same page, going in the same direction and to deal with those matters internally. But when it's all said and done, if Rick had been pitching more effectively, as he did down the stretch with St. Louis last year, then this move would not have been made. So ultimately, it comes down to bottom-line performance.

About Ginter:
We think we'll get at least equal to what we were getting out of White's spot, and we have the potential to get a little bit more. This is the time to see what Ginter is all about

I have to agree with KW. White started pitching a little better in June/July but I think Ginter has a chance to be much better.

DonkeyKongerko
08-02-2003, 01:58 PM
Rick White designated for assignment probably won't accept it. He will depart a la Josh Paul and I think he wants to go back to St. Louis to attempt and relive the highlight of his career.

OEO Magglio
08-02-2003, 02:07 PM
I have to agree with KW. White started pitching a little better in June/July but I think Ginter has a chance to be much better.
Agreed!!!!!

PaleHoseGeorge
08-02-2003, 02:27 PM
This is just another variation on the 25th man argument that popped up last month after Rios was cut and Jimenez was traded. The Sox need somebody to start every fifth day and there wasn't room on the roster for Danny Wright unless somebody was kicked off the 25-man roster. White or Ginter, neither would make much difference in the outcome of this season.

I fully supported White's public statements last week, especially the part where he stood up for the team's starters in questioning why Manuel sticks them in the bullpen the day before their scheduled start. He wasn't speaking for himself when he said that, which leads me to believe the subject has been raised inside the clubhouse before and ignored. Still, if he is the 26th man, I'm not shedding tears about losing him. We need a fifth starter.

Please note, this is NOT an endorsement of Danny Wright who has been truly awful all season long.

:wright
"We could have had Kenny Rogers for hardly anything last winter, but no."

PaleHoseGeorge
08-02-2003, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
He insulted Gen. Disarray. That's a capital crime in the Sox organization. The only person you can rip in public if you're a Sox player is Frank Thomas. If you do that, you get rewarded with playing time even when you're hitting below .200, and then chosen over Thomas as first baseman even though Frank hits better when he plays there.

Until today I would have chalked up your theory as a baseless conspiracy, Torn. However, in light of Teddy's Q&A (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-030801insidesox,1,1239753.story?coll=cs-home-headlines) with Manuel before yesterday's game, I think the evidence is there that Manuel (and perhaps Williams, too) has it out for Thomas. Either the man is completely incompetent to run a major league clubhouse (a real possibility), or he is actively attempting to turn the best pure hitter on his team into a mediocre ballplayer for other nefarious reasons.

How ironic. In that same Teddy article--the one in my morning newspaper, not the updated version on the internet--Teddy speculates that GINTER would be sent down, not White. Quoting Teddy in this morning's print edition:

Assuming the Sox keep 11 pitchers, reliever Matt Ginter appears headed back to Charlotte... Reliever Rick White (with a 6.61 ERA) didn't earn any points for publicity criticizing Manuel last weekend, but it's unlikely that the team would release him at this point.

I'd say your theory is spot-on exposing the duplicity of Manuel. Criticism is not acceptable--unless it's aimed at Frank.

Lip Man 1
08-02-2003, 03:49 PM
Dumb dumb move!

White pitched very well for two months and has been through a pennant race.

Ginter will crap in his pants the first time he's put in a pressure situation that could have major playoff implications.

Does this mean White was great? No, but he's a damn site better then another "can't miss kid."

Today's papers also said that Danny "I Can't Pitch" Wright will be moved back and forth between spot starting and the bullpen.

Yea that'll work!

Wright has NEVER pitched out of the pen and you're asking him to make a seamless transition again in the middle of a pennant race.

Absolutely stupid reasoning.

Now Williams has to go out and try to pick up a competent relief guy off the waiver wire. Some will be out there since teams may not want to pay salary. KW damn well better!!!

Lip

TornLabrum
08-02-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by manuelsucks
I have to disagree with you guys. I think it would be a good thing if White leaves. He hasn't pitched anything good since June, and he hasn't shown any glimpse of improvement.

What games were you watching? White pitched very well in June and July (including in a couple of games I attended).

He had a "bad" outing his next-to-last time out when Gen. Disarray left him in for a third inning. That's Manuel's fault for gross stupidity, and it followed on the heels of the game in which White won after he was one of three pitchers warming up in the pen due to the fact that Manuel forgot to have a pitcher ready for one particular batter.

His other bad outing was the game after he complained in the papers and got shelled.

TornLabrum
08-02-2003, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Until today I would have chalked up your theory as a baseless conspiracy, Torn. However, in light of Teddy's Q&A (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-030801insidesox,1,1239753.story?coll=cs-home-headlines) with Manuel before yesterday's game, I think the evidence is there that Manuel (and perhaps Williams, too) has it out for Thomas. Either the man is completely incompetent to run a major league clubhouse (a real possibility), or he is actively attempting to turn the best pure hitter on his team into a mediocre ballplayer for other nefarious reasons.

How ironic. In that same Teddy article--the one in my morning newspaper, not the updated version on the internet--Teddy speculates that GINTER would be sent down, not White. Quoting Teddy in this morning's print edition:



I'd say your theory is spot-on exposing the duplicity of Manuel. Criticism is not acceptable--unless it's aimed at Frank.

More on that in the next "Fallen Arches" column.

MisterB
08-02-2003, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Can White be sent to AAA? Doesn't he have to clear waivers first? I thought he was being released.

I believe what happens is White is placed on waivers, and if he clears he can either accept a minor league assignment or opt to become a free agent. If they were intending to release him they would put him on unconditional/irrevocable waivers.

doublem23
08-02-2003, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Can White be sent to AAA? Doesn't he have to clear waivers first? I thought he was being released.

He can only be sent to AAA if he agrees to accept his designation (Armando Rios). If he refuses, he becomes a F/A (Josh Paul).

At least that is how I thought the system worked.

LASOXFAN
08-02-2003, 06:30 PM
He's a no good fat piece of white trash. Good riddance to anyone who blasts their manager during a win streak. In the words of Crash Davis, you don't mess with a streak.

It's stupifying to read comments defending a middle-aged relief pitcher with an ERA over 6.00 who's blasting his own manager when the team is trying to turn around it's season. Some of you guys, Voodoochile and others, have lost all objectivity and along with it my respect for your opinions. You blast JM and KW for every move they make. Get over it. We're in first and winning. Why don't you go root for the Cubs if you need to have something to bitch about.

MHOUSE
08-02-2003, 10:01 PM
If he isn't claimed off of waivers, then White can either go to AAA or become a free agent. I'm thinking that he'll blow town and try to sign on with someone who needs bullpen help, probably in the NL. I say good riddance. White was a mop-up guy anyways and Ginter can pitch in long relief and mop-up just fine. I doubt Jerry would put Ginter into a clutch spot. With Flash, Marte, Wunsch, Scho, etc to pitch in those spots then we'll be fine. White had a good end of June/July, but his last two or three outings were the same crap he started out with this season. His comments would have been more accepted in April/May, but not when your team is starting to turn it around and you're in a pennant race. Goodbye White Trash and best of luck finding a place to pitch. Ginter is more welcome and will have a much better attitude. Go Matt! :smile: We only need a 5th starter like 3 times in August with off days and such so why not let Danny do it and eat some crap innings from the BP if the chance is there. Good decision by KW and White was the guy to go.

Lip Man 1
08-03-2003, 02:19 AM
Sox management said White wasn't released because he shot his mouth off about Manager Gandhi but because of performance. They quickly ignored White's very good June and July.

Yea they also said that Matt Ginter had more potential......that's the same Matt Ginter who gave up a grand slam Saturday night.

Now THAT'S potential !

Lip

princek
08-03-2003, 03:48 AM
making outs via rocket line outs and fly balls to the warning track isnt exactly my idea of a good June and July, did he get the outs - yes, did he look anywhere near a dominating pitcher - absolutely not!!! This guy sucks and be gone with him.

gosox41
08-03-2003, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by manuelsucks
I have to disagree with you guys. I think it would be a good thing if White leaves. He hasn't pitched anything good since June, and he hasn't shown any glimpse of improvement. On top of that, the comments he made were just unacceptable for anyone to say, including Thomas. The whole team had an upbeat attitude, while Rick White was calling out Manuel, who IMO has made some pretty good decisions since after the break. Taking him off the team would be too bad with the new guy Schoenweies (however it's spelled :?: ), Gordon, Marte, Koch. Plus our starters have averaged about 7 innings which is just fine to bring in a pitcher from the bullpen. With Koch making a turn around, I don't see any negative in this situation.

The whole situation slightly reminds me of Royce...

From June 1 to July 25 White had a 3.49ERA.

Bob

Brian26
08-03-2003, 10:42 AM
My two cents, as I've stated last week (and it sounds like someone took the comments to heart):

White should be gone. Period. Manuel didn't ****can players in April and May when they weren't performing, and the players should have the respect and decency not to ****can Manuel.

soxruleEP
08-04-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
My two cents, as I've stated last week (and it sounds like someone took the comments to heart):

White should be gone. Period. Manuel didn't ****can players in April and May when they weren't performing, and the players should have the respect and decency not to ****can Manuel.

This is absolutely correct.

Say what you will about Manuel (and I am a big Manuel critic--see threads "Manuel is an idiot" and "More reasons Manuel is an idiot.") but he doesn't badmouth players (although he does seem to let people badmouth Frank). When White gave up four earned runs with two outs a week ago Saturday, Manuel didn't rip him.

But White then surrenders another four spot with two outs and he rips the manager--in the middle of a great win streak. Manuel did get a small dig in at White, which wasn't becoming.

He deserves to go--why keep someone who has been monumentally ineffective except for a 15-20 inning stretch?