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View Full Version : Koch apologizes to teammates, fans, everyone


delben91
07-31-2003, 12:45 PM
This (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/311sd2.htm) was in the Daily Southtown today.

At least he realizes that he's come up way short of expectations, and is working to get back to where he was.

It's good to hear that he seems to be making some progress. As many games as he's lost for the Sox this year, I hold out some hope that he'll come back fresh next season with his 98+ MPH fastball. He seems like a genuinely decent guy. And while that doesn't make up for his performance, or lack thereof, at least he isn't demanding to be out there closing games.

scottmt
07-31-2003, 12:50 PM
And the fans, I've let down the fans that paid good money to come out and see Koch throw 99 or 100 (mph) and be a dominant pitcher.

:bkoch:
"And by the way, if anybody sees this Koch guy, I'd like to meet him."

MetalliSox
07-31-2003, 12:51 PM
I think Koch has handled the whole situation very well. He wants to close, there is nothing wrong with him saying that he thinks he will be back in that spot. He has confidence and believes in himself.
He is the bizzaro Rick White. Koch knows he has sucked and wants to improve. That's is good he realizes that.

FJA
07-31-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by delben91
This (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/311sd2.htm) was in the Daily Southtown today.

At least he realizes that he's come up way short of expectations, and is working to get back to where he was.

It's good to hear that he seems to be making some progress. As many games as he's lost for the Sox this year, I hold out some hope that he'll come back fresh next season with his 98+ MPH fastball. He seems like a genuinely decent guy. And while that doesn't make up for his performance, or lack thereof, at least he isn't demanding to be out there closing games.

I like this a lot, especially in light of the Rick White fiasco. Most guys who play like he has will sulk and blame others, but, if nothing else, it's good to know we have a stand-up guy who isn't fooling himself. Like you said, Delben, it doesn't make up for his performance, but at least he knows he has to work, he wants to work, and knows what it will mean to this team if he can get some results. I respect him a lot for that.

FJA
07-31-2003, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by FJA
I like this a lot, especially in light of the Rick White fiasco. Most guys who play like he has will sulk and blame others, but, if nothing else, it's good to know we have a stand-up guy who isn't fooling himself. Like you said, Delben, it doesn't make up for his performance, but at least he knows he has to work, he wants to work, and knows what it will mean to this team if he can get some results. I respect him a lot for that.

And another thing, you almost never see Koch sulking in the bullpen or the dugout. He's always cheering the team on, no matter how he performs personally.

SoxOnTop
07-31-2003, 12:57 PM
You'd have thought with his cocky attitude coming in that he'd be a major pain to deal with considering the current situation. But I guess he knows he can't pop off untill he puts up. Gotta love a guy like that.

harwar
07-31-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by FJA
And another thing, you almost never see Koch sulking in the bullpen or the dugout. He's always cheering the team on, no matter how he performs personally.

Tuesday night when yet another ball went either,over the left-field fence or against it,you could see Billy Koch(and only Billy Koch)clapping his hands and cheering.The other guys never moved.

A.T. Money
07-31-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by FJA
And another thing, you almost never see Koch sulking in the bullpen or the dugout. He's always cheering the team on, no matter how he performs personally.

Very true. You never see him bitching and moaning. He's always in the bullpen clapping on big hits and cheering on his teammates.

Mammoo
07-31-2003, 01:01 PM
Don't give up BK...here's to you! :gulp:

chuckn98229
07-31-2003, 01:02 PM
Thanks for sharing that article. I have a lot more repect for him after reading it. I wish him the best and hope he gets back to being a dominant closer.

manuelsucks
07-31-2003, 01:09 PM
Its good to see at least he is trying to get better, but I don't think that just that will make me forgive Koch. He is getting paid a lot (I'm pretty sure 8 million) and he can't even come in for relief, the job he was supposed to be doing.

DrCrawdad
07-31-2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by harwar
Tuesday night when yet another ball went either,over the left-field fence or against it,you could see Billy Koch(and only Billy Koch)clapping his hands and cheering. The other guys never moved.

I noticed that too. I guess it shouldn't be a shock because the word on Koch was that he was a great teammate in Oakland.

Gumshoe
07-31-2003, 02:36 PM
KW should be doing the apologizing. He got duped HUGE. Koch is out of control of this situation. The A's blew out his arm last year and traded him to a schmuck GM. It's that simple.

Gumshoe

kingpin_rcs
07-31-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by harwar
Tuesday night when yet another ball went either,over the left-field fence or against it,you could see Billy Koch(and only Billy Koch)clapping his hands and cheering.The other guys never moved.


I noticed that too and thought it was good of him. At the same time I think it was kind of bad that he was the only one.

HawkDJ
07-31-2003, 03:19 PM
One of the reasons I liked Koch at the time of the trade was his great attitude. It appears he still has it even though he has been a huge bust. When the Sox got hits to left in KC he was the only one you could see clapping every time.

White_Sock
07-31-2003, 03:39 PM
Kind of makes me feel bad for lots of Koch bashing from the start. If he would just ask Foulke to teach him that change up he might have something. -

Oh by the way - My roommate gets to talk to Kieth Foulke on a regular basis as I live out here in the SF bay. Foulke always goes go carting at this place where my roommate works - it like 10 min away from San Jose,CA. Foulke said that he misses the fast-car lifestyle of the White Sox players, but also that the A's management expects less out of him as far as being a certain type of character. Just thought that was interesting considering the amount of Foulke fans out there.

gogosoxgogo
07-31-2003, 05:02 PM
You know, as much as you don't like the guy when he pitches, you have to give him credit here. He could have easily bitched the entire year that he should have been closing, and go on and on. However, he's handled his failure on the mound this year very well. He has not said a word. Apologizing only futhers this. He knows he's not playing up to par. Even if you don't like the guy on the field, I think you have to give a ton credit to the guy off the field. Now, let's just hope he can regain that fastball, we're going to need him.

TornLabrum
07-31-2003, 05:09 PM
It's going to be interesting to see what happens as a result of his work with Cooper. If Cooper is half the pitching coach I think he is, Koch I see Koch undergoing a transformation form the thrower he has been to a pitcher. (And of course when that happens, we'll trade him.)

MHOUSE
07-31-2003, 07:21 PM
I like him a lot more thanks to this. I hope he can make the comeback for next season. Looking at his stats, he really threw a LOT of innings last year and had 15 decisions. KW got taken, but at least Koch isn't blaming anyone but himself. If he works hard and works with Coop then he'll be back. Great attitude tho. Always the first one out of the dugout in those couple of walk-off wins I noticed. Keep it up Billy Goat and I hope to see you and your fastball in 2004. Right now, just keep cheering and do what you can.

baseballboy
07-31-2003, 07:44 PM
Whoever started this thread I would like to thank you. I still would rather not see him out there in games we are winning by less than 5 runs, but I respect him so much more. What a great teammate! Great person! Thanks!



Originally posted by Gumshoe
KW should be doing the apologizing. He got duped HUGE. Koch is out of control of this situation. The A's blew out his arm last year and traded him to a schmuck GM. It's that simple.

Gumshoe

Wow, nothing but nice things being said in this thread and then Gumshoe comes along with his pessimistic attitude of Kenny Williams again. Thank you Gumshoe, that was wonderful. Can someone really throw 92-96 with a blown out arm? More power to him if he can, that is remarkable!

duke of dorwood
07-31-2003, 09:01 PM
He's still got great breaking stuff-he will recover by changing his plan of attack-and be a better hurler because of it-

mack10zie
07-31-2003, 09:23 PM
Whoever started this thread I would like to thank you. I still would rather not see him out there in games we are winning by less than 5 runs, but I respect him so much more. What a great teammate! Great person! Thanks!

I completely agree with the above statement. This thread actually pumps me up for a possible return of the Koch that was actually one of the better closers in the league for next season.

gosox41
07-31-2003, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by delben91
This (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/311sd2.htm) was in the Daily Southtown today.

At least he realizes that he's come up way short of expectations, and is working to get back to where he was.

It's good to hear that he seems to be making some progress. As many games as he's lost for the Sox this year, I hold out some hope that he'll come back fresh next season with his 98+ MPH fastball. He seems like a genuinely decent guy. And while that doesn't make up for his performance, or lack thereof, at least he isn't demanding to be out there closing games.

So what's the official verdictof why he lost his fastball? I've been claiming overuse, but some have said the Sox adjusted his mechanics at the beginning of the season. Is this true? If so, why did they do this, and why hasn't he adjusted back. Just watch some old video tape from last year and work on whatever is different.

As much as I like to rip on Koch and even more so KW for making such an idiotic move, I do hope he turns it around and figures things out because the Sox need him.

Bob

gosox41
07-31-2003, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by White_Sock
Kind of makes me feel bad for lots of Koch bashing from the start. If he would just ask Foulke to teach him that change up he might have something. -



I feel bad for a microsecond. Then I remeber he is doing a crappy job and that is his fault. I also remember that he is being paid $10 mill over the next 2 years. It may not have been his fault someone offered him all that money, but he gets all of that money no matter how crappy he pitches and how bad he feels about it. He's set for life just off this 2 year contract and not counting all the money he made beforehand assuming he's not dumb enough to squander it.

Bob

gosox41
08-01-2003, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by baseballboy


Wow, nothing but nice things being said in this thread and then Gumshoe comes along with his pessimistic attitude of Kenny Williams again. Thank you Gumshoe, that was wonderful. Can someone really throw 92-96 with a blown out arm? More power to him if he can, that is remarkable!

Gumshoe has it 100% right. The truth hurts but it can't be avoided. It was a bad trade at the time and Koch not pitching well has made it that much worse.

Sure the thread was all nice and friendly before that, but we're not all going to hold hands and sing one of those cheesy folk songs,are we.

The reality is we're stuck with an overpaid, bad pitcher. Even though he's no Jaime Navarro, it sucks to think about how much better this bull pen will be if Koch pitched close to the average reliever he was last year.

How many wins has he cost the team? It's almost impossible to measure because you don't know how much of his ineffectiveness has led to overuse of Marte and Gordon and how that effects them. How much of Koch's overpriced salary prevented the Sox from making another move for a hopeful playoff run?

That's what bugs me. I'm glad he's a great guy. but it's not helping the team win games on the field.

Bob

Gumshoe
08-01-2003, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by baseballboy
Whoever started this thread I would like to thank you. I still would rather not see him out there in games we are winning by less than 5 runs, but I respect him so much more. What a great teammate! Great person! Thanks!





Wow, nothing but nice things being said in this thread and then Gumshoe comes along with his pessimistic attitude of Kenny Williams again. Thank you Gumshoe, that was wonderful. Can someone really throw 92-96 with a blown out arm? More power to him if he can, that is remarkable!

I'm sure Koch is a good teammate. But why give him so much credit when a) he is supposed to be a good teammate and b) he better be because he absolutely sucks this year.

Do you expect him to make excuses and such? Last I heard, when you don't perform you are supposed to be quiet and for the team. I know other players blame other guys, but that doesn't mean Koch will or is expected to. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with Billy. He's a likeable guy. I'm just mad we traded one of the best closers in baseball for the last 3 years for a guy who we should have known was in big time trouble. Also, we need bullpen help! That exacerbates it. This isn't KW's fault? I suppose Rick White isn't either ...

Baseball boy, you should know that the difference between 92 and 97+ is HUGE. Averaging 91 MPH vs. Averaging 97 MPH as a reliever when that is your bread and butter makes all the difference in the world, obviously. Please don't talk about this topic anymore, because you simply can't admit that this was one of the worst trades EVER --- I guess you'll never get over/admit it.

Gumshoe

baseballboy
08-02-2003, 12:52 AM
One of the best closers in baseball? I wouldn't even consider Foulke top 10 in all of baseball. He is merely 2nd or third tier of closers.

Top 10
Smoltz
Gagne
Wagner
Rivera
Percival
Sasaki
Guardado
McDougal
Baez
Benitez (Before traded)


He is not one of the best. The best are clearly Smoltz and Gagne. He doesnt touch them, so he is not "one of the best". Is he "one of the best of the rest"? Yeah I will give you that. He is as good as Benitez or Baez, so you can make a case to put him in there. I did not include two injured closers Hoffman and Nen, so that would change things even further as both of them are better than Foulke.

If Koch was still throwing like he was last year then he would also be ahead of Foulke.

doublem23
08-02-2003, 01:35 AM
I would put Foulke above 3-5 of those names you mentioned. No matter how you cut it, we got fleeced. Deal with it. Keith Foulke is an A-list closer (statistically one of the best in the last couple of years) who we let go for pennies.

voodoochile
08-02-2003, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
I would put Foulke above 3-5 of those names you mentioned. No matter how you cut it, we got fleeced. Deal with it. Keith Foulke is an A-list closer (statistically one of the best in the last couple of years) who we let go for pennies.

That's a bit harsh. Anyone who says they expected Koch to be this bad is lying to make themself look smarter, IMO. Foulke might be the better relief pitcher, but I would bet that most of the people felt that Koch would be much more effective than he has been (of course I might be more effective than he has been, so that doesn't say much).

Still, the Sox acquired a solid pitcher who got injured or lost his stuff or lost his conficence or whatever, but it isn't like the Sox traded Foulke for the 2003 Billy Koch, unfortunately that's what they got...

gosox41
08-02-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by voodoochile
That's a bit harsh. Anyone who says they expected Koch to be this bad is lying to make themself look smarter, IMO. Foulke might be the better relief pitcher, but I would bet that most of the people felt that Koch would be much more effective than he has been (of course I might be more effective than he has been, so that doesn't say much).

Still, the Sox acquired a solid pitcher who got injured or lost his stuff or lost his conficence or whatever, but it isn't like the Sox traded Foulke for the 2003 Billy Koch, unfortunately that's what they got...

That's the thing that bother's me. I sort of predicted Koch to go down hill on the day the trade was made because of a possible case of "Bobby Thigpenitis."

I hated the trade from Day 1. In 2002, Foulke was a better pitcher then Koch. Same thing with 1998-2000. It was a bad trade because Foulke is statistically much better. It's now an even worse trade because Koch lost his heater. But it was bad from day 1, so it's not an issue of knowing that Koch would be this bad. Bad is bad and the trade should never have been made to begin with so we wouldn't be having these debates.

Bob

voodoochile
08-02-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
That's the thing that bother's me. I sort of predicted Koch to go down hill on the day the trade was made because of a possible case of "Bobby Thigpenitis."

I hated the trade from Day 1. In 2002, Foulke was a better pitcher then Koch. Same thing with 1998-2000. It was a bad trade because Foulke is statistically much better. It's now an even worse trade because Koch lost his heater. But it was bad from day 1, so it's not an issue of knowing that Koch would be this bad. Bad is bad and the trade should never have been made to begin with so we wouldn't be having these debates.

Bob

I was responding to the "pennies" comment. If Foulke is worth a dollar, the Sox got at least $0.80 and more like $0.90 back in trade (on the surface).

Not as good as Foulke? Yes. This bad? No way... Hindsight is 20/20. I kinow you have been a stauch attacker of this trade since it happened, but even so, you couldn't have predicted it would end up being this bad.

baseballboy
08-02-2003, 12:35 PM
How any of you "experts" can judge a trade on half a season is beyond me. Remember when the scrubs got clement and alfonseca for Willis? Everyone thought the scrubs got them for nothing. However, look at that trade now? What? A year later? Willis looks like a stud left handed pitcher. One of the reasons the Marlins are contending this year. Notice I said ONE, not a major reason, not the only reason, but ONE of the reasons. You should wait a year or two before you judge any trade. ANY TRADE! Koch can bounce back and make you look like fools. Cotts can turn out to be AWESOME! Plus he is a lefthander. I really don't understand you guys. Foulke was not a great closer last year. So in the last few years of his great closing he missed a year. He is one of the reasons we sucked so bad last year. He is the major reason our bullpen was in shambles and we had to go out and get people this year. Yeah he bounced back to save his year in ERA an WHIP, but every time he was put in a closing situation, even when he was "back to form" he sucked!!!!!!! HE SUCKED LAST YEAR AS A CLOSER!!!!! I dont care how he pitched out of that role, as a closer he sucked major donkey balls. Thats all. Wait a year or two and see how this trade pans out, all you guys may look like total fools.