PDA

View Full Version : Gammons is right about this.


Tragg
07-31-2003, 12:33 AM
what the Reds are doing is a disgrace and a real commish would never let it happen.
And it is worse than what Finley tried to do (and which Kuhn blocked) because their owner is sucking off of the teat of the taxpayer with the stadium and still selling off players.
I guess in this day and age where Houston and Chicago and Detroit are considered "small markets" this is simply a natural evolution.
Baseball is literally letting teams buy championships.

JJAustin69
07-31-2003, 12:34 AM
No real commish since Bowie Kuhn.

VeeckAsInWreck
07-31-2003, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by JJAustin69
No real commish since Bowie Kuhn.

Kuhn was an idiot as well. I would say baseball hasn't really had a commish since the first guy, Kennesaw Mountain Landis.

Hullett_Fan
07-31-2003, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
Kuhn was an idiot as well. I would say baseball hasn't really had a commish since the first guy, Kennesaw Mountain Landis.

I hope Landis is rotting in HE - double hockey sticks!

1) Banned Weaver and Jackson for life

2) A racist


Just my two cents...

adsit
07-31-2003, 09:54 AM
I wish Giamatti had lasted long enough in the job to fix what was/is broken... or at least long enough to prevent the possibility of that felon Selig from slipping into the office. Giamatti's book, "A Great and Glorious Game," is a must-read for any baseball fan.

Even Pete Ueberroth deserves more props than Bowie Kuhn, but Selig makes anyone who came before him look brilliant.

Contract this, chappie...

Dave

Jerko
07-31-2003, 09:59 AM
Gammons was whining not because of what the Reds are doing, but because of the fact that the Yankees might get Gabe White and Aaron Boone. Did you see the whole tirade on TV? Gammons: "Boone was going to go to Seattle, but guess where he'll probably wind up, the YANKEES!" :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: I bet if Bill Mueller ran into another brick wall in a craphole ballpark today and shattered his knee again, Gammons would cream if Boston landed Boone. I agree, what the Reds are doing is a disgrace; they had some great young talent and crap pitching, now they have no talent and crap pitching. I am a Reds fan and I am disgusted, but Gammons is only pissed because the firesale will help the Yankees more than the Red Sox.

Brian26
07-31-2003, 10:04 AM
Tragg-

I'm a huge baseball fan, 31 yrs old, but I only vaguelly recall hearing this story from the early 70's about Finley and his players. Did he try to trade Fingers, Rudi and someone else to the same team? And Kuhn blocked it because it wasn't a fair deal? If anyone can give a detailed explanation of this, I'd appreciate it. I somewhat vaguelly recall that Finley tried to get rid of them all before the end of the '74 season since they were due to be free agents, but I could be wrong.

dickallen15
07-31-2003, 10:06 AM
Funny how Gammons wasn't nearly as upset that Boston bought Williamson.

Jerko
07-31-2003, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by dickallen15
Funny how Gammons wasn't nearly as upset that Boston bought Williamson.

FROM the same team no less. As Stuart Scott would say: True dat!

adsit
07-31-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Tragg-

I'm a huge baseball fan, 31 yrs old, but I only vaguelly recall hearing this story from the early 70's about Finley and his players. Did he try to trade Fingers, Rudi and someone else to the same team? And Kuhn blocked it because it wasn't a fair deal? If anyone can give a detailed explanation of this, I'd appreciate it. I somewhat vaguelly recall that Finley tried to get rid of them all before the end of the '74 season since they were due to be free agents, but I could be wrong.

Here's a pretty detailed abstract on what happened that year...

Finley's Fire Sale (http://www.baseballprimer.com/articles/markusen_2001-06-18_0.shtml)

I remembered some of that, but had forgotten that this boneheaded move cost the A's the division that year, by one game.

Tragg
07-31-2003, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by JJAustin69
No real commish since Bowie Kuhn.

I was a kid when kuhn was commish - but I remember not liking him at all, but I don't know why really. There was some obscure ruling he made about billy cannon, jr and the yankees (it's real fuzzy) that didn't like either. The only commish I liked at the time was Fay Vincent, and mine was an unpopular position.

harwar
07-31-2003, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Gammons was whining not because of what the Reds are doing, but because of the fact that the Yankees might get Gabe White and Aaron Boone.

That was classic Gammons.He can be so pompous and pontifical.I think everyone watching was thinking the same thing.It was a yankee hater tirade.

Lip Man 1
07-31-2003, 11:50 AM
Detroit, Houston and the South Side of Chicago are considered "small" markets because the current owners CHOOSE to think that way.

Just thought that needed to be emphisized.

And I LOVED that fact that basically all the Baseball Tonight crew showed some disgust over what the Reds are doing. I remember six years ago when Joe Morgan and Dave Campbell did the same thing over what a team from Chicago's South Side did.

Considering the Reds opened a new ballpark and are raking in cash what they are doing is TRULY disgusting.

The other point brought up (with great levity) by Gammons was that the money the Reds are getting for these players DOES NOT have to go back into the organization. As Gammons so beautifully put it when he stood up on camera and placed his hand in his pocket, meaning this money is going right in the owners pocket.

Lip

Tragg
07-31-2003, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Jerko
Gammons was whining not because of what the Reds are doing, but because of the fact that the Yankees might get Gabe White and Aaron Boone. Did you see the whole tirade on TV? Gammons: "Boone was going to go to Seattle, but guess where he'll probably wind up, the

That's a fair point - he should also pound the Williamson deal because that was a mere sell-off as well.

Scotty347
07-31-2003, 12:56 PM
Also at the end of both half hours of baseball tonight (11:00 and 11:30) when they closed the show with their final thoughts, the White Sox were mentioned both times.

Gammons says look out for the White Sox, they are surging to the top. Looks like the national recognition may be coming now with the winning.

Now maybe one more trade today before 4:00pm and we're ready to make some noise..........

Aaron Boone?

harwar
07-31-2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Scotty347
Also at the end of both half hours of baseball tonight (11:00 and 11:30) when they closed the show with their final thoughts, the White Sox were mentioned both times.

Gammons says look out for the White Sox, they are surging to the top. Looks like the national recognition may be coming now with the winning.

Now maybe one more trade today before 4:00pm and we're ready to make some noise..........

Aaron Boone?
lets not forget Harold reynolds who has been in the White Sox corner for weeks while taking shots from Bobby Valentin,who seems to hate us.

pudge
07-31-2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by harwar
lets not forget Harold reynolds who has been in the White Sox corner for weeks while taking shots from Bobby Valentin,who seems to hate us.

Bobby Valentin on Tuesday's sportscenter said the Sox would make the play-offs.

Gumshoe
07-31-2003, 01:21 PM
As I was dozing off I noticed they did cover the White Sox fairly. I guess we'll have to go to the playoffs and take out the Yanks before we get noticed. I hope they can do it.

By the way, I have 2 questions.

1) If the Wild Card and best record are in the same division, what happens? Is it best record vs. worst record of the other division winners?

2) What trades do you think will go through before 5pm today? Any?

MisterB
07-31-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Gumshoe
1) If the Wild Card and best record are in the same division, what happens? Is it best record vs. worst record of the other division winners?

In terms of best records, it's like this:

1 plays WC
2 plays 3

unless 1 & WC are in same division, then it's:

1 plays 3
2 plays WC

LuvSox
07-31-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by VeeckAsInWreck
I would say baseball hasn't really had a commish since the first guy, Kennesaw Mountain Landis.

Landis wasn't & never will be a friend of the White Sox.

Shoeless Joe
07-31-2003, 01:40 PM
Origianlly posted by LuvSox
Landis wasn't & never will be a friend of the White Sox.

:shoeless

You're damn right!

Brian26
07-31-2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by adsit
Here's a pretty detailed abstract on what happened that year...

Finley's Fire Sale (http://www.baseballprimer.com/articles/markusen_2001-06-18_0.shtml)

I remembered some of that, but had forgotten that this boneheaded move cost the A's the division that year, by one game.

Adsit, thanks for the link. That was absolutely fascinating. Makes you wonder how dangerous Boston would have been that year if they would have played Rudi and Fingers in that 2-day stretch after the trades if they had a chance. Boston may have won the pennant instead of the Yankees, and the Reds-Redsox World Series rematch may have happened in '76. Likewise, Oakland may have won their division and the pennant if the trades would never have happened. Interesting stuff.

pudge
07-31-2003, 02:45 PM
Landis may have been a racist, and I don't agree with his harsh ban of Buck Weaver, but he stuck to his guns, which I respect. It's all about setting a precedent, which he did quite well. If Pete Rose ever goes to the Hall, I'll have a fit. Shoeless Joe should go in the very same day if that ever happens.

On another note - Why is it so terrible that the Reds are deciding to blow up and start over? They have some young corner stones in Dunn and Kearns, it's not like they're going anywhere with their current group. They don't even want to trade Boone, it's just that he has asked to be traded.

maurice
07-31-2003, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by pudge
Why is it so terrible that the Reds are deciding to blow up and start over?

Because the Reds are not rebuilding; they're cashing out. The players are being sold to the team that offers the most cash; not the best prospects (which is why we didn't get Williamson and probably won't get Boone). All on the heels of a brand new ballpark.

Gumshoe
07-31-2003, 03:13 PM
Maurice, while that IS true, don't forget that they spent a LOT of money on the contracts of both Larkin and Griffey so that they might be able to win. Those are old guys (Larkin, good guy, but old) and they just didn't work out. They need a new direction. Who knows.

Dadawg_77
07-31-2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by pudge
Landis may have been a racist, and I don't agree with his harsh ban of Buck Weaver, but he stuck to his guns, which I respect. It's all about setting a precedent, which he did quite well. If Pete Rose ever goes to the Hall, I'll have a fit. Shoeless Joe should go in the very same day if that ever happens.

On another note - Why is it so terrible that the Reds are deciding to blow up and start over? They have some young corner stones in Dunn and Kearns, it's not like they're going anywhere with their current group. They don't even want to trade Boone, it's just that he has asked to be traded.

He also stuck to guns to segregate the Majors. Their were attempts to have non white players, but Landis crushed them.

Nick@Nite
07-31-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by pudge
Landis may have been a racist, and I don't agree with his harsh ban of Buck Weaver, but he stuck to his guns, which I respect. It's all about setting a precedent, which he did quite well. If Pete Rose ever goes to the Hall, I'll have a fit. Shoeless Joe should go in the very same day if that ever happens.

Kenesaw Mountain Landis was a hypocritical jerk. He stuck to his guns with the Black Sox alright, but where's the same punishment for Tris Speaker and Ty Cobb? Both "allegedly" fixed a Cleveland/Detroit game on 24 September, 1919. AL President Ban Johnson forced them both to resign, but Landis cleared and reinstated them when their accuser refused to leave California to testify.

Black Sox + Grand Jury acquittal = Lifetime ban.
Tris Speaker/Ty Cobb + no testimony = Reinstatement.

Landis exercised his authority tyrannically until the day he died.

pudge
07-31-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by PinchALoaf
Kenesaw Mountain Landis was a hypocritical jerk. He stuck to his guns with the Black Sox alright, but where's the same punishment for Tris Speaker and Ty Cobb? Both "allegedly" fixed a Cleveland/Detroit game on 24 September, 1919. AL President Ban Johnson forced them both to resign, but Landis cleared and reinstated them when their accuser refused to leave California to testify.

Black Sox + Grand Jury acquittal = Lifetime ban.
Tris Speaker/Ty Cobb + no testimony = Reinstatement.

Landis exercised his authority tyrannically until the day he died.

Those are some drastically differing circumstances. Didn't the Sox players sign documents admitting their guilt?

Nick@Nite
07-31-2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by pudge
Those are some drastically differing circumstances. Didn't the Sox players sign documents admitting their guilt?

I dunno... but KML could have tailored the punishment(s) to fit the crime. Ban the instigators Gandil & Risberg... Buck Weaver & Shoeless Joe's play in the 1919 WS tells me they don't deserve a lifetime ban.